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A Guide to DI, Smash DI, C-stick DI, Teching and Crouch Cancelling --- Updated

Brookman

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I was a little confused by this part of ASDI:

let's say you are recovering against a peach who is charging downsmash

if you hold the c-stick up and towards the edge you won't have to smash the control stick up/towards it?
 

Dalal

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Nice guide! Amazing, taught me a lot of things...

Hmm... I didn't read any posts in between so I might have missed something, but I'd like to ask some questions that I hope you can answer:

1) I didn't exactly understand what Smash DI'ing is all about. So, if you Smash DI, can you take a fully charged Samus shot, and fly the other way, or is that impossible? I mean, I've seen it in the perfect control video, but Perfect Control's all about things that humans cannot accomplish at their speed of movement. And when you Smash DI, does it serve a purpose on Final Destination where there are no walls. I mean, what does it do exactly, do you just move slightly in the direction you smashed?

2) What happens if you Smash DI downwards... is it just like Crouch Canceling? Sorry if it was answered in your guide, I just have trouble comprehending things when I'm tired after an exhausting day at school...

3) What is the point of Multiple Smash DI'ing? What can you acheive by doing this on Final Destination or anywhere else. Don't you just move around a little bit before the hitlag gets over? What purpose does this serve.

4) The content of your guide is good, but if you have video-recording equipment, then can you provide a video for every DI technique you described? Just for people like me who don't understand what it's supposed to look like or what it's supposed to do...

5) EDIT: One more fifth question, in the video you made, why did you Smash DI upwards and then ASDI downwards. What is the point in Smash DI'ing upwards. I don't get it at all! Help!

That's all the questions I have, hope you can answer them

Thanks,
Dalal

P.S (Grimer likes your guide as well)
 

Joanna Dark

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with a smash DI you can escape from any 2 or more combo hits... fox's AUA... just smash DI out of it at the first hit, you won't get hit by the second lol... everytime I die by an AUA against a fox, I'm mad at me cuz I missed my SDI lol.
 

Doraki

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The Brookman said:
I was a little confused by this part of ASDI:

let's say you are recovering against a peach who is charging downsmash

if you hold the c-stick up and towards the edge you won't have to smash the control stick up/towards it?
Against Peach's downsmash you don't have to do anything because her move already sends you into the wall. =/.

Against powerful hits that send you at high speed away from the edge, ASDIing won't be enough. just like you can't stay grounded forever with ASDIing down, it won't make you go into the wall forever when recovering. That's why it's better to SDI, because you don't have to worry even if you're at 999%

Dalal said:
Nice guide! Amazing, taught me a lot of things...

Hmm... I didn't read any posts in between so I might have missed something, but I'd like to ask some questions that I hope you can answer:

1) I didn't exactly understand what Smash DI'ing is all about. So, if you Smash DI, can you take a fully charged Samus shot, and fly the other way, or is that impossible? I mean, I've seen it in the perfect control video, but Perfect Control's all about things that humans cannot accomplish at their speed of movement. And when you Smash DI, does it serve a purpose on Final Destination where there are no walls. I mean, what does it do exactly, do you just move slightly in the direction you smashed?

2) What happens if you Smash DI downwards... is it just like Crouch Canceling? Sorry if it was answered in your guide, I just have trouble comprehending things when I'm tired after an exhausting day at school...

3) What is the point of Multiple Smash DI'ing? What can you acheive by doing this on Final Destination or anywhere else. Don't you just move around a little bit before the hitlag gets over? What purpose does this serve.

4) The content of your guide is good, but if you have video-recording equipment, then can you provide a video for every DI technique you described? Just for people like me who don't understand what it's supposed to look like or what it's supposed to do...

5) EDIT: One more fifth question, in the video you made, why did you Smash DI upwards and then ASDI downwards. What is the point in Smash DI'ing upwards. I don't get it at all! Help!

That's all the questions I have, hope you can answer them

Thanks,
Dalal

P.S (Grimer likes your guide as well)
1) No, SDI doesn't affect at all the direction where you're flying, it just makes you move before you're sent flying.
SDI was meant to escape combos from hits that send you nowhere, like JD said, Fox's uair, Fox's dair, Zelda's smashes, the A-A-A-A.. natural combos, Samus's fair, sometimes you can also escape Marth's nair.... etc etc.. yes, you just move slightly in the direction you smash.
And it's also meant to wall-tech moves against edgeguarders.

2) If you're on the the ground and you SDI downwards, the SDI does absolutely nothing. But the DI+ASDI after the hitlag can make you stay grounded, but there's no point at all in smashing there.

3) Multiple Smash DIing makes youj ust move more. It may let you move enough to escape more combos, or reach a wall when you'd have been a bit too far,
or you might use it if you absolutely wand to SDI and DI in 2 different directions.

4) The thing is, Smash DI is difficult to look for, I could point you to a vid where CJ is doing it though.. (probably any vid from him) ASDI is even more difficult because it happens when you're already flying, it moves you half as far as SDI does, and we're already doing it all the time with the control stick..

5) The purpose of that clip was 1. To make sure that C-stick outprioritized Control stick for ASDI and also to show that ASDI down with C-stick without SDIing up would make you stay on the ground, 2. To show both Smash DI and ASDI in one clip. It was just the final proof I needed to my understanding of ASDI.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0817/

This page was done during the development of the game, and it clearly shows that they're implementing DI and SDI, look at the bottom of the page.
 

Brookman

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right, I should have said falco's spike

I need to really practice these advanced DI tricks so it just becomes natrual, cause I only ever do it when I'm thinking about it. I edge teched a falcon punch the other day...
 

Dalal

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Doraki said:
Against Peach's downsmash you don't have to do anything because her move already sends you into the wall. =/.

Against powerful hits that send you at high speed away from the edge, ASDIing won't be enough. just like you can't stay grounded forever with ASDIing down, it won't make you go into the wall forever when recovering. That's why it's better to SDI, because you don't have to worry even if you're at 999%



1) No, SDI doesn't affect at all the direction where you're flying, it just makes you move before you're sent flying.
SDI was meant to escape combos from hits that send you nowhere, like JD said, Fox's uair, Fox's dair, Zelda's smashes, the A-A-A-A.. natural combos, Samus's fair, sometimes you can also escape Marth's nair.... etc etc.. yes, you just move slightly in the direction you smash.
And it's also meant to wall-tech moves against edgeguarders.

2) If you're on the the ground and you SDI downwards, the SDI does absolutely nothing. But the DI+ASDI after the hitlag can make you stay grounded, but there's no point at all in smashing there.

3) Multiple Smash DIing makes youj ust move more. It may let you move enough to escape more combos, or reach a wall when you'd have been a bit too far,
or you might use it if you absolutely wand to SDI and DI in 2 different directions.

4) The thing is, Smash DI is difficult to look for, I could point you to a vid where CJ is doing it though.. (probably any vid from him) ASDI is even more difficult because it happens when you're already flying, it moves you half as far as SDI does, and we're already doing it all the time with the control stick..

5) The purpose of that clip was 1. To make sure that C-stick outprioritized Control stick for ASDI and also to show that ASDI down with C-stick without SDIing up would make you stay on the ground, 2. To show both Smash DI and ASDI in one clip. It was just the final proof I needed to my understanding of ASDI.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0817/

This page was done during the development of the game, and it clearly shows that they're implementing DI and SDI, look at the bottom of the page.
Okay thanks. That clears some things up. But I still want to know how that feat was performed in Perfect Control, where the Mario flies the opposite direction he is hit in. I don't get it.. Can anyone help?

Thanks,
Dalal
 

Doraki

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Samus's fully charged shot has 18 frames of hitlag. What happens is around 18 Smash DIs in a row.
Omnigamer put the frame by frame clip somewhere in the credits, you can see all of them very well.
The Mario doesn't fly at all, everything is over before he's sent flying by the shot.
 

l)evilishSamus_420

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This guide seems extremely useful but I'm still confused about how these DI's are performed. If say I am hit by a Falcon knee that sends me almost directly off the board to one direction, which way would I want to SDI and ASDI? And this is performed basically at the moment you are hit correct?
 

Brookman

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?

WHY WAS THIS NEVER STICKIED?!?!?!?!?


this is BY FAR the most useful and informative post on smash boards
 

Dalal

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Here is my idea: Since smashers are still not completely sure about how DI works exactly (we are still figuring things out about it), it would be helpful to keep track of all DI discussion threads and guides, such as this one. Basically, instead of sticking only THIS thread, someone can compile a list of all DI discussion threads and guides that have been created up until now. This can be a stickied thread labeled "DI Discussions". It would help a lot of people...

Anyway, putting that aside, there are a couple things about Smash DI that continue to confuse me! Help!

1) Smash DI allows you to move around during the hitlag of the move so you can move yourself into a wall or the ground to tech, right? But when you Smash DI, it doesn't move you very far, so the walls and ground that you want to tech of off have to be VERY close to you in order for this technique to work. My question is - if the walls are SO close to you, then why even bother Smash DI'ing? You'll get hit into the wall anyway, since it's so close. Then you just press R to wall tech.

2) http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=62732 - In that thread Lord Knight replies and says that the reason Ken flies so far is because of Smash DI? Wha? I thought that Smash DI does not influence your trajectory, it simply allows you to move around during the hitlag of the move. Right? So then, how does Ken fly so far by using Smash DI?

Sorry if I have ever repeated any one of the millions of DI questions I've posted in Melee Discussion. When you are confused about things, well ... this tends to happen.
 

Brookman

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smash DI is what helps you survive at higher percents (like marth surviving an up smash from fox at like 115%

and it also is what helps you to go WAY off the original trajectory
 

Doraki

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I don't know about the others but I'm completely sure about how DI works exactly.
There is a link to this thread in the official everything topic.

0) All DI discussion topic I have seen does not talk about any form of DI not in this guide, since there is not.

1) You have no reason to get hit into a wall if you're sent in the opposite way, like, when a Marth edgeguards you with a forward smash. If you're coming from below with an up-B, you absolutely NEED to ASDI (or Smash DI if you're at a high %) towards the wall if you want to wall-tech Marth's forward smash.

2) It's a joke topic.

3) There is no Japanese DI.
 

Zero34

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DI is that one thing that we still know so little about.

anyone know how mario did this crazy DI in perfect control? i know its explained in the first post, but im still lost...
 

Dalal

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Okay I get that part, Doraki! Thanks! But now I'm confused about what Brookman said...
The Brookman said:
smash DI is what helps you survive at higher percents (like marth surviving an up smash from fox at like 115%

and it also is what helps you to go WAY off the original trajectory
I keep getting told that Smash DI does not influence your trajectory and it is simply moving around while the hitlag is occuring. It even clearly states this in one of Doraki's replies, on page 3, I think. It is only used to move yourself to tech or something. Not for helping you survive Fox's upsmash at 115%, that is the function of normal DI, holding the control stick perpendicular to the direction of the trajectory. That's what I've been told. But now, again, someone tells me that it affects your trajectory. What Doraki and Brookman are saying are two different things. Brookman = Smash DI changes trajectory ; Doraki = Smash DI does not ... Which one?

And Zero34, I asked the same question a while ago. To tell the truth, I STILL had questions about Doraki's reply after he tried to explain to me what was actually happening. All I understood is that for every frame of hitlag in Samus's move, Mario went ahead and inputted one Smash DI. So he was doing Multiple Smash DI. And, apparently, 'everthing was over before Mario went flying'. That's the part I didn't understand. If everything was over, then why did Mario even have to move himself towards the wall to tech. If it was over, then he could have stayed there... Zero, I'll edit this when I find Doraki's answer to that question. EDIT: It's at the top of this page somewhere. Doraki's first post on this page. I didn't understand everything in it. Doraki can you explain what you mean by "Everything was over before..." and all that.

Also, I have another question. You mentioned in the guide, Doraki, that by ASDI'ing downwards, you'll either tech if the hit is techable.... and some other stuff.... The important part of what you said was when you said "You'll either tech if the hit is techable". Does this mean that you don't have to press L or R? It just techs automatically. Do you mean "You can either tech if the hit is techable..." or what? Yeah, I know, it's kind of a stupid question, but I just want to try and understand what you meant. Hope you can clear that up.

Thanks for tolerating me,

Dalal
 

Brookman

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well, I could be wrong, I dunno for sure, but I was fooling around with it on 1/4 speed in training and I survived a fully charged up smash at 115% and only went across half of FD horizontally...so meh >_>
 

Doraki

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Dalal said:
Also, I have another question. You mentioned in the guide, Doraki, that by ASDI'ing downwards, you'll either tech if the hit is techable.... and some other stuff.... The important part of what you said was when you said "You'll either tech if the hit is techable". Does this mean that you don't have to press L or R? It just techs automatically. Do you mean "You can either tech if the hit is techable..." or what? Yeah, I know, it's kind of a stupid question, but I just want to try and understand what you meant. Hope you can clear that up.
I'm sorry for not being clear there, but yes you have to press L or else you'll just bounce off with a green flash, like all other techs. *goes to edit*
if it's techable, you tech or bounce depending if you pressed L or not ; if it's not techable, you land with no stun.

About the "Everything was over before..." I meant that the Mario wasn't sent flying by the hit at all, it's the last smash DI into the ceiling that makes him wall-tech, still during the move's hitlag.
If the Mario hadn't done anything he would have obviously died from the shot.
 

Dalal

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Thanks Doraki!

For the Mario thing, so do you mean to say that the whole movement of Mario from his standing position to the wall was all Smash DIs? So he didn't go flying at all, the whole movement was done during the hitlag of the move? Okay, I get it... Cool!
 

Pinkshadow

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Wow... this is amazing and it sure works...

But im having a bit of trouble.

Soo im hit by marths forward a smash.

Can i press forward on the c-stick super fast?
Or can i just hold forward.

Cause currently im just holding forward on the c stick. (thats asdi rite)
Then if i press forward on the cstick again really quickly thats an sdi then just holding forward on the cstick is. Basically perfect di-ing.

Correct?
 

Doraki

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No, I don't think you can Smash DI with the C-stick. I've tried it a bit and didn't see anything like that.
All you can do with it is ASDI and you just need to be holding it.
 

Xelyst

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doraki, incredible job, this is such an important guide to understand, thanks
 

K1T3

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Ok, just checking, for the mario samus tech, in order to perform that, aside from the beyond human movements, would you have to press L right before being hit, to do the tech, then smash DI enough times toward the wall, therefore when you get to it it techs right after the hit lag?

For fox's uair for instance, after you get hit by the first hit, which way do you DI? I'm guessing you get hit by the soft hit and smash DI up/left and ASDI up/left that way the second hit doesn't connect?

As for ledge teching when recovering if fox/falco do you press L/R right before being hit then get hit and SDI into the ledge and/or ASDI into the ledge then it will tech from your before pressing L/R and then you over B to grad the ledge?

Quick question also, the only DI that doesn't work along the hit trajectory is regular DI right, so SDI and ASDI can both be used along the hit trajectory?

Awesome thread btw, very imformative and it cleared things up a whole lot
 

SmashMac

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Hey man, awesome guide. I have a question though that you might know but it's weird. When I was on Dream Land fighting against my brothers my brother had Fox. I was at like ... 90%+ damage and my brothers Fox USmashed me. Right after the USmash though I remember smashing down on the Control-stick RIGHT after he Upsmashed me. That Smash attack shoulda sent me flying really high, but I like paused in the air at about the middle platforms height and went down o.O?! Wth.
 

Doraki

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K1T3, yes I had to press L right before the hit. I could have pressed L at the last frame too but I could have missed that.
About SDIing Fox's up air, it's generally a good idea to do a up-side diagonal.
And you're right about everything else you asked. =)


SmashMac, that looks like a ceiling glitch.
Did you forward smash him right in his shield and he did an upsmash out of shield ?
 

SmashMac

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Doraki, I'm not exactly sure. All I know is that he up-smashed me either after a shine or just an upsmash. It was weird though. My character just paused right in mid-air for a split second and then fell right down fairly quickly as if like ... fast-falling or something.

I was right below the platform to the left of Dream Land, and my brother upsmashed me. I don't remember hitting L or R though for teching, I just remember hitting down on the control-stick to DI.
 

Enycecricket

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hmm maybe its me

dont pay attention to the subject.

I was wondering if any1 could compile as list and break it down as such:

moves that cannot be ASDI'd

moves that cannot be SDI'd

moves that cannot be DI'd
 

Doraki

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Comp:

moves that can be ASDI'd,
moves that can be SDI'd :

everything that has hitlag, so everything except grabs and fox's blaster


moves that can be DI'd :

everyhting that has knockback, so everything except phantom hits and fox's blaster
 

Mudassir

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for the mario superman di vs samus,
Could you just have pressed straight left each time for the smash Di instead of alternating diagonally upleft and down left? Would that allow you to move further left?

Also you call it "Smash"DI, do you really have to smash the direction to move during hitlag? If I get hit by a fully charged shot, can I smash left and then repeatedly nudge it between upleft to downleft to get more SDI's? I mean I don't have to let the stick go to neutral for every SDI during one hitlag, right? Also, what if I do it slowly kinda like a tilt, would that do anything?
 

SmashMac

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Doraki I believe I figured out what happened now. I was sent up on Dream Land again by the upsmash and I held down on the contron stick. My character like ... slid on the platforms. It was like ... an upside-down platform cancel so when I held down on the control stick before I got to the height of the platform, when I got to the platforms height of the platform it canceled my vertical momentum from being sent up and it made me slide on the platform o.º''! Yea .. wth is that?
 
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