[collapse=Response to Riddlebox]
Your doubles example...you're more or less forgetting the fact that we have two games going at the same time...? so double the end result of whatever math you have there...I've sat on the floor at our locals because of lack of space (the last one had what 20 entrants?)...you're telling me double to triple the amount of people is going to make this better? I'm not arguing that it can't be done...I'm arguing that it's uncomfortable and ****ing stupid especially when we come to try and enjoy the events not pay to suffer.
My doubles example still holds true regardless of the number of people. The point was:
1. Typically for every TV, there should be 2 people (like in singles).
2. Assume 32 entrants for singles.
3. Given 32 entrants, 16 TV's means everyone can play at once.
4. If there are 32 ppl in singles, It is typically the case that there will be equal to or less than 32 people in doubles.
5. Taking the most extreme scenario, this assumes there are 16 teams.
6. On paper, 1 game is between 2 teams, therefore the 16 teams only need 8 TV's to play on.
7. In reality there are space issues. But this leads into a couple of scenarios.
a. Since only 8 TV's are needed, spread out the the players. If its 1 tv for 2 ppl, then everyone would still be able to fit and play, except access to 8 stations has been cut off for the tournament.
b. In the scenario presented by you, 2 doubles matches can fit among 3 TV's. So that's 8 ppl (4 teams) for the space that 3 TV's gives. With 16 Teams, that means they can fit in the space of 12 TV's. Meaning there are still 4 more TV's which are available.
The number of TV's and entrants can be changed and it still fits the example I'm trying to give. We're not likely going to have 16 TV's for one event, but the point is, with doubles, it can be arranged in a way where it is not too cramped. I remember when you sat on the floor vs Bing and myself. The memory is a little fuzzy but I remember that being your decision, and not particularly something you complained about. I believe you ended up making space for chairs when you played the following match.
How many people have already said they're going to participate in both events too? I've already seen a handful say they will which will raise the number of set ups we need purely because people will enter cause, why not?
Don't worry about the number of setups. There are more than enough TV's.
From what I've seen at or heard from people at "other fighting game tournaments" especially at A&C the brackets are limited and first come first serve depending on the size of the other tournament going on at the same time.
This is not always the case.
Also, I'm pretty sure you all are more than ready to handle the environment surrounding both communities...the scale is the problem not experience with them. Both games are pretty much run the same way, and from what I've seen you have separate T.O.s for each game, so any intricacies that would be a problem between both games is covered? I don't really see what the problem is aside from x person not getting along with x person. I don't even think that can possibly happen since you have been having meetings with each other already on skype or w/e. The things that may cause a problem are the non-smash related events.
In this sense, I'm trying to be safe rather than sorry. The reality of the fact is that we haven't had more than 10 meetings for reasons that are a topic for another day. Despite the fact that the TO's have been given their separate responsibilities, I'm aiming for a closer relationship between them. For instance, some of the TO's don't even know what everyone looks like. I've never really heard of practice being a bad thing either. I'm simply trying to cover as many bases as I can in preparation for this event.[/collapse]
[collapse=Response to Jethrotex]
Debating is fine as long as people argue valid points, which is the case. It helps to stimulate the mind and voice an opinion on a subject that may or may not be to one's liking (lol).
Anyways, I think the main problem is the fact that we were all looking forward to the tourney as there seemed to be a potential for a big Melee turn out where everyone could practice up before Impluse. It seems as though Brawl was randomly thrown into the mix without any form of discussion, maybe if we would have been able to have a say in it, which would have most likely lessened the aggravation but still result in people's disinterest, it wouldn't feel as though they were intruding. If you look at the people who are mad about this, it's mainly Melee players since the date was already set for Melee.
I don't think the venue it really that well equipped to handle two full tourneys, regardless of it doing so before. Even the 45 man tourney we had a little bit ago was slightly crowed and sweaty, and although it will work, it may be uncomfortable and not conducive in allowing people to pay to their full potential.
Regardless, I'm still coming since I want to practice as much as I can, but I don't think this situation was handled well.
The 45 man tourney was iirc the 2nd 6-4 MU tourney. So that was 8 months ago. The venue has become more equipped since then. If other tournaments have done it multiple times then that says something, at least to me. There also hasn't been a significant drop in numbers at their tournaments. I've talked to the hosts, the players, and they haven't complained about anything of the sort. I'm fairly confident that once this event occurs, certain concerns will be answered since people will actually get to experience it for themselves.[/collapse]
[collapse=Response to Summonedfist]
The main points I bring upon, that tinman chooses to continuously ignore,
is that JUST cuz the venue can accommodate brawl while melee is going on, and JUST cuz the venue can fit both games, and cuz there would be ENOUGH setups,
doesn't mean that: in signing up for that date, melee WANTED to include brawl, and that the venue HAS to allow that many ppl in, and that we wanted to GIVE UP the OPPORTUNITY for excess setups.
Who wants to settle for enough when we could've had a blast with extra friendlies going on? Or a smoother/endingearlier tourney?
These are just a few points that tinman chose not to discuss with the majority, simply tries to say sorry as if the problems are no longer there,
but no, this is why you have such an unhappy community.
Also, stop using IMPULSE as an excuse. As I said on fb, whoever is running impulse decided for it to be a melee/brawl tourney. If you really wanted this to be a chance for melee/brawl TOs to fit/work together, you would have had BOTH communities discuss it....
...not force brawl to happen because there were no other dates that you could sign up for, and that you feel it's too important to not have a tourney yourselves.
I'm personally just concerned about the lack of excess setups there will be for friendlies. Attempting to make this tourney is tight enough, and the only reason is that it'll be a few players' last. I don't want to come just for there to be no friendlies opportunities, as well as a 2nd community trying to squish in because they couldn't book a time for themselves early enough, and consequently deter other melee players from coming because of the whole issue.
I sure hope brawl has a low turnout. And I sure hope that brawl players don't want to come to this equally as much as we don't want to fit them in. I only say this because I'm sure you'll be too keen to stop this from happening.
And in the very end, all it would have taken was asking or discussing earlier. Not simply dropping a bombshell on us.
I can understand how it seems like I'm ignoring what ur saying, so I'll address it.
I did not ask a majority no, I only asked Unknown. I explained to him the situation, how it could work out, and still respect Melee. Things like me getting Drekken to stream the tournament, a stream schedule that would work out for both events, giving Melee the "better positioned" setups, as well as there being enough setups in general. Upon getting his approval, I moved forward with the idea.
To my understanding, initially the arguments where about "if it's possible", however this now shifted to something more emotional.
You mention that people want to play friendlies and that people want a smooth tournament, and that people want comfort. I could continue to go on and on about how it would all work out, however it seems as thought one of the best routes would be to let the tournament unfold. It would answer all of the questions and concerns.
I do not believe them to be as severe as some of you seem to think it, but I realize certain things in the process.
One of the biggest things is that you guys haven't had as much experience with the venue as I've had. You all see maybe 8 stations set up at once in the venue at once. I've seen the venue hold significantly more. I've even hosted a tourney which had significantly more. People didn't complain about heat. The tournament was ran fine ended fine, and people were happy.
In seeing this, I realize the potential of the venue, especially since what we're going for is not going to come close to that potential.
I mean, essentially what I'm trying to say is that I see people complaining about things that are for the most part have been proven to be fine when I witnessed the same situation. It's because of this that I'm trying to sit on the problem until the day of. Some people need to see for themselves. Actions and experiences can speak louder than words. I can say, you guys will be fine all I want, but it may not hold weight until the tournament actually comes. I even apologize, admitting that a majority should have been talked to, but it seems as thought that didn't help :o.
With this in mind, I'm trying to correct the statistical, non emotional arguments (things like venue capacity, setups, etc) and trying to leave the emotions to the tournament. I figure the best thing I can do is stay involved and respond as much as I can to prove that I care.
In the end, I'm not trying to take away a lot (or anything rather) from "Melee". I'm truly certain that that won't be the case. It's hard to argue with people's emotions and bias, but I'm doing so the best I can. I think the tournament will be a success and it's only a mater of time before I get to prove that.[/collapse]
[collapse=Response to Idea]
okay i don't see the need for a long post at this point, so just these things:
1. i don't see why "130 people" is relevant. maybe 130 people can STAND in the WHOLE ROOM. but all the tvs with the video games are at the edges, and the space surrounding the edges is a hell of a lot less. and people need to sit, on chairs.
2. i suggest neither game does doubles and people bring more of their own CRTs than normal
2a. unless brawl doesn't lag on LCDs
2b. is the brawl community still terrible about bringing their own tvs? this has been the reputation for as long as i can remember
3. maybe i'll have to host people afterward for more smash
1. With 130 ppl in the venue, no not everyone sits down. The chairs at that time covered about half the entrants. So 130 ppl fit in the venue with chairs for at least half of them, and all of TV's and video games set up as well.
2. There are more than enough CRT's. And both games could do doubles. It wont cripple the tournament.
2a + 2b This is kinda irrelevant for me to address given my answer to point 2[/collapse]
