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Official 4BR Tier List V3 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

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|RK|

|RK|

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Just reminds me that the only Sonic character I like isn't actually in the game. Instead we have the annoying blue one
 
Luigi player

Luigi player

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I'm kinda disappointed that likes don't add "& Knuckles" as well. I wanna have Knuckles like all posts.

Anyway, Knuckles is my fav. character. Would be a dream to have him playable, but I never seem to like any April fools "jokes". Is it even okay to talk about that here now? Maybe all April fools-concerning posts will be deleted after..

I can't agree that Little Mac is Knuckles in spirit with his poor airgame. He'd have some sort of gliding (somewhat like Peaches upB), wall cling (that he can get if gliding into a wall like Lucario with upB). And he wouldn't be as fast as Little Mac on the ground.
 
JB333

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Potential Top Tier - Knuckles Analysis (1.1.6) - Super Smash Bros Wii U - TSM ZeRo
 
Nobie

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Whenever I think of Knuckles attributes, I always remember how Knuckles can't jump as high as Sonic. When you play Knuckles in Sonic 2 (THANKS TO LOCK-ON TECHNOLOGY!!!) and take on the final boss, he can't safely hit the robot when it's standing, whereas Sonic can. Instead, you have to wait for the robot to land and bend forward before he's in range.

Basically, if they ever actually make Knuckles in Smash 4, he should have worse jumps. Maybe even have him be a Donkey Kong type, excellent horizontal recovery, lackluster vertical.
 
TriTails

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Luigi player said:
I'm kinda disappointed that likes don't add "& Knuckles" as well. I wanna have Knuckles like all posts.

Anyway, Knuckles is my fav. character. Would be a dream to have him playable, but I never seem to like any April fools "jokes". Is it even okay to talk about that here now? Maybe all April fools-concerning posts will be deleted after..

I can't agree that Little Mac is Knuckles in spirit with his poor airgame. He'd have some sort of gliding (somewhat like Peaches upB), wall cling (that he can get if gliding into a wall like Lucario with upB). And he wouldn't be as fast as Little Mac on the ground.
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Well, Knuckles' air attack in Sonic Battle sucked, and his gliding didn't deal much damage in that game either. I'm not sure how his specials were but I didn't quite find him to be an efficient fighter in the air when I played him.

Well, at least LM has a wall jump. But some sort of gliding would be cool too. (Inb4 Mac gets moonwalk)

Knuckles runs fairly fast in Sonic games. He is shown to be able to keep up with Sonic so long as the he isn't going Mach 4 or something. And Sonic's run speed value in this game is insane by 3.5. LM's is 2.24. I can see the gap to be quite justified, actually.
 
Megamang

Megamang

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Sonic is like a superman type from what I can tell, his power always rises to match the occasion. Like plot aura. So comparisons to sonic are kinda meh.

Its why I never found the stories engaging. Its like once you fly backwards around the world to turn back time or whatever, just stick with that solution.


If it isn't obvious, I didn't play the games much at all. So this is probably wrong.

& Knuckles.


Smashing Illini tournament today, House of Paign. Come watch the people that die to tyroy try and get better while he outpaces us =[
 
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Luigi player

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TriTails said:
Well, Knuckles' air attack in Sonic Battle sucked, and his gliding didn't deal much damage in that game either. I'm not sure how his specials were but I didn't quite find him to be an efficient fighter in the air when I played him.

Well, at least LM has a wall jump. But some sort of gliding would be cool too. (Inb4 Mac gets moonwalk)

Knuckles runs fairly fast in Sonic games. He is shown to be able to keep up with Sonic so long as the he isn't going Mach 4 or something. And Sonic's run speed value in this game is insane by 3.5. LM's is 2.24. I can see the gap to be quite justified, actually.
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Sonic Battle isn't the only thing that matters/should matter in that regard. It's pretty unique. In the normal Sonic games Knuckles moves about the same as Sonic, just with, like what you said, a little lower jump. That doesn't make him bad in the air. He was actually the easiest to use in the air with his glide imo (in non-Sonic Battle). And glide was pretty broken anyway, coupled with climbing.

I wasn't only thinking about his runspeed. All of LMs normal attacks are super fast and have low lag, he's super nimble, etc.. I know Knuckles can run pretty fast. Even in SA2 and stuff. Though I would probably not make him top 10 in speeds. He could still have a Spindash with downB to help out. We don't want to have a completely broken character, or one that would have Ganon attacking speed just because his other attributes are so good. :x Oh well, that's it for me and my opinion on that matter. Not like it matters anyways.
 
MistressRemilia

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Luigi player said:
Sonic Battle isn't the only thing that matters/should matter in that regard. It's pretty unique. In the normal Sonic games Knuckles moves about the same as Sonic, just with, like what you said, a little lower jump. That doesn't make him bad in the air. He was actually the easiest to use in the air with his glide imo (in non-Sonic Battle). And glide was pretty broken anyway, coupled with climbing.

I wasn't only thinking about his runspeed. All of LMs normal attacks are super fast and have low lag, he's super nimble, etc.. I know Knuckles can run pretty fast. Even in SA2 and stuff. Though I would probably not make him top 10 in speeds. He could still have a Spindash with downB to help out. We don't want to have a completely broken character, or one that would have Ganon attacking speed just because his other attributes are so good. :x Oh well, that's it for me and my opinion on that matter. Not like it matters anyways.
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If Knuckles is designed in the same rushy way Sonic was designed in Smash Bros & how Knuckles was designed in Sonic the Fighters ( where he's very close to sonic ), i'm afraid we might just have another top tier with high timeout capabilities.
 
Lord Dio

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Somebody told me that Knuckles jab can be autocancelled and the full jab will kill at 80% on lightweight characters, could this cause a large change in the meta?

Good prank though.
 
Betatech

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Man i miss the days when people mained characters other than knuckles. Tournaments have been so boring since sakurai decided to implement patch 1.1.7 &knuckles
 
Sinister Slush

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I can't believe it, Knuckles finally announced as Fall DLC on Super Smash Bros for Wii U On The Switch.
TSM transfers ZeRo to CLG and Void embraces his semi consistent 4th placings and is dropped by CLG in favor of ZeRo to join Team Liquid.

Bayonetta also gets removed from the game on April 11th after the Sega announcement that popped up recently in favor of the hit new characters that'll be released on the very exact day of said announcement, Yooka-Laylee.

 
RIP|Merrick

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I think the problem with the current doubles meta is that people aren't taking it seriously anymore due to teams practically needing at least one Knuckles per team to get anywhere. His ability to survive is insane due to gliding, his weight, and his clutch wall cling. Screwdriver has insane shield damage on every hit, and with a partner can whittle away at what little remains of their bubble until their shield is broken off a few inputs. Not to mention one throw from his partner into his Spiral Upper killing guaranteed at around 80%. Think about that; 1-2 jab KILLS at a relatively low percent, and is guaranteed so long as your partners character has a low enough throw. And don't get me started on Maximum Heat Knuckles Attack. Charging the move is low committal with insanely high reward, impossible to punish, and again, converts to death off a teammates throw at 40% which is insane. I don't get why people are complaining about doubles meta growing stale when Knuckles is polarizing the meta. This is no chuckling matter. Ban Knuckles in doubles.
 
Diamond Octobot

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If only his range as as bad as his frame data, Mega Mains would have no trouble dealing with him...
But that would make him worse than Mac, so forget it.

Btw why do I feel like Sonic Battle could make a fun inspiration for Knuckes XD
 
TDK

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Random fact: Glide animations for Pit, Meta Knight, and Charizard were found in this game. So at one point, Gliding was supposed to be in smash 4 too.
 
FeelMeUp

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Have any of you started to employ platform camping against certain characters yet?
If so, what were your findings? Did you succeed in doing what you wanted to do?
What stopped you?
 
Rizen

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It depends on how good the devs made glide. In Brawl MK's glide was OP, even more so after shuttle loop. Charizard's glide was useful but no where near MK's level.
 
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|RK|

|RK|

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FeelMeUp said:
Have any of you started to employ platform camping against certain characters yet?
If so, what were your findings? Did you succeed in doing what you wanted to do?
What stopped you?
Click to expand...
Nah. Actually went in the exact opposite direction, since watching those vids lol. I ended up agreeing that camping allows the opponent to put pressure on me while I can't do the same to them. Kirby's poor mobility also makes it difficult, but I also don't do it with Lucario.

On that note, isn't it especially dangerous for a character like Sheik? All you have to do is slip once against a couple chars to lose your lead/stock, no?
 
HoSmash4

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FeelMeUp said:
Have any of you started to employ platform camping against certain characters yet?
If so, what were your findings? Did you succeed in doing what you wanted to do?
What stopped you?
Click to expand...
Yes. Bayonetta is amazing on platforms because
1. Cant be grabbed by a grounded opponent aside from command grabs/tomahawks. I.E only direct answer to someone camping on them with a lead is well... attack them... and yeah witch time
2. A lot of people approach platforms badly.. so it a freebie
3. (Cant confirm) but ledge drop aerial is faster than shorthopping then landing with an aerial so it can make your mixups better
4. Platforms are inherently higher up so bayo ladders can be started from a distance that makes chance of a kill confirm higher.

Pretty much vs non swordies/broken uairs I have... no reason not to
 
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Thinkaman

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Can we talk specifically about Zack's ledge tactics, the up-b pseudo-planking? Who can specifically challenge this?

I bet Mac would melt it alive with his magical ability to trade with anything.
What about Rock Smash or Charizard's invincible f-smash? Flare Blitz? (lol)
Nayru's Love maybe could, but low reward.
Any DHD can tricks that interfere? (Can't think of any...)
Luma... something...? Seems like a good way to get Luma killed.
ZSS or Sheik down-b, reading the top of an up-b...?
Big projectiles, like Charge Shot?
Triggered stuff like PK Fire/Arcfire/Arcthunder?
Something like Shulk or Corrin f-smash? Marth?
Counters?

Many (but not all) of these run Witch time risks. Otherwise Villager Tree would be a great one.



I'm also still curious what impact f1 invincible specials (Rising Uppercut + Rest) have on Bayo ladders.
 
Ziodyne 21

Ziodyne 21

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UtopianRay :rosalina:is currently 2-2 with ZeRo :4diddy: at KTAR Saga now.

UPDATE: ZeRo wins 3-2. But game 5 was pretty close and UtopianRay nearly got the reverse 3-0 this set


Man Rosalina is looking better and better as of late . .
 
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