Official 4BR Tier List V3 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Nocally]

Better player> better at the character

Edit: what FeelMeUp said

 

[Illuminose]

i'm absolutely positive hikaru is better at dk in terms of playing the character and skill level with the character overall, but tweek's dk is very good. there's just obvious situations where you can see that tweek is not exactly comfortable or can't make openings happen in situations where hikaru could find them, which is a result of having less experience playing with the character. he also has clear instances of blatantly playing the character suboptimally or incorrectly, like his lack of capitalization and threatening while zero was platform camping, suboptimal grab combos, and poor use of the punch. tweek's dk is a counterpick that allows him a completely different playstyle and has the abusable kill option of ding dong. tweek's dk is good at boxing and really good at landing grabs/ding dongs, which can be all you need sometimes if you can make your opponent play scared and prey on their habits, but let's be real here: this isn't the best donkey kong. this is a solid counterpick character that can pull off certain wins but doesn't have the tools for use in every matchup, which is fine from tweek's perspective because he mains a top 3 character, but it's not enough to unseat someone (hikaru) who has consistently put in work with the character and achieved numerous wins/results with almost entirely dk. bottom line: if we just consider his dk, i don't think tweek is a better player than hikaru, but he is a better player if you consider his main cloud in addition to his donkey kong.

also the salem vs zack argument continues to be interesting because we see salem with a solidly winning record vs nairo (the past two sets have been dominant 3-0/3-1 and he has an overall winning record), which is just one example of a top level player that salem can beat and does beat where zack has been shown to have little chance. my perspective is that to compare them, you have to look at how each would do given the other's bracket. we're not talking about pgr ranking here because the placements will probably give zack that (depending on what we see with salem in the next few big tournaments). but if we look at the caliber of players salem is capable of competing with and beating (zero, leo, nairo, ally) that we don't see zack truly competing with, there's still an argument to say salem is better because his level of wins is much higher.

my example would be salem's genesis bracket, where he lost to elegant and zero for 25th, and zack beat marss/aba/anti to get 4th, losing to mr.r and zero. you can also take civil war as an example, in which salem lost to shuton and zinoto for 25th and zack beat mr.r/earth/marss for 4th. here's the thing: if you don't honestly think zack would perform better given salem's bracket, how can you confidently say he is better? because he places better? this is a game of brackets; zack's edge in placements in the past 3 months should be taken with a grain of salt. he's doing amazing things and would be ranked higher than salem on a 2017 ranking thus far, but that's short-term and there's factors to look at other than placements. the argument for both salem and zack as the best bayos still exists in my opinion.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

i'm absolutely positive hikaru is better at dk in terms of playing the character and skill level with the character overall, but tweek's dk is very good. there's just obvious situations where you can see that tweek is not exactly comfortable or can't make openings happen in situations where hikaru could find them, which is a result of having less experience playing with the character. he also has clear instances of blatantly playing the character suboptimally or incorrectly, like his lack of capitalization and threatening while zero was platform camping, suboptimal grab combos, and poor use of the punch. tweek's dk is a counterpick that allows him a completely different playstyle and has the abusable kill option of ding dong. tweek's dk is good at boxing and really good at landing grabs/ding dongs, which can be all you need sometimes if you can make your opponent play scared and prey on their habits, but let's be real here: this isn't the best donkey kong. this is a solid counterpick character that can pull off certain wins but doesn't have the tools for use in every matchup, which is fine from tweek's perspective because he mains a top 3 character, but it's not enough to unseat someone (hikaru) who has consistently put in work with the character and achieved numerous wins/results with almost entirely dk. bottom line: if we just consider his dk, i don't think tweek is a better player than hikaru, but he is a better player if you consider his main cloud in addition to his donkey kong.

also the salem vs zack argument continues to be interesting because we see salem with a solidly winning record vs nairo (the past two sets have been dominant 3-0/3-1 and he has an overall winning record), which is just one example of a top level player that salem can beat and does beat where zack has been shown to have little chance. my perspective is that to compare them, you have to look at how each would do given the other's bracket. we're not talking about pgr ranking here because the placements will probably give zack that (depending on what we see with salem in the next few big tournaments). but if we look at the caliber of players salem is capable of competing with and beating (zero, leo, nairo, ally) that we don't see zack truly competing with, there's still an argument to say salem is better because his level of wins is much higher.

my example would be salem's genesis bracket, where he lost to elegant and zero for 25th, and zack beat marss/aba/anti to get 4th, losing to mr.r and zero. you can also take civil war as an example, in which salem lost to shuton and zinoto for 25th and zack beat mr.r/earth/marss for 4th. here's the thing: if you don't honestly think zack would perform better given salem's bracket, how can you confidently say he is better? because he places better? this is a game of brackets; zack's edge in placements in the past 3 months should be taken with a grain of salt. he's doing amazing things and would be ranked higher than salem on a 2017 ranking thus far, but that's short-term and there's factors to look at other than placements. the argument for both salem and zack as the best bayos still exists in my opinion.

It's not Like Zack hasn't got wins over his fiat share of top level playere to don't forget.

He has wins vs Dabuz, ANTi, Abadango, Kameme, Ranai , Mr.R. Marss, Kirahara and so on. I think it really depends on how diffrent each of thier playstyles and the levels of effectiveness on the opponents they face.
Both have their demons they always get desteoyed by . Dabuz for Salem and ZeRo for Capt.Zack inthey ironically do much better vs the other. Where they have occasionally beaten and even when they lost it was very close.

 

[my_T]

Not quite the case either.
Tweek's just better than all of them. As a player.
This is fairly common. ZeRo, VoiD, Mr. R (compared to VoiD), MKLeo, etc. You don't need to be an absolute professional at a character when you're straight up better at the game than the competition.

Tweek ain't a better player than Hikaru. You could argue they're evenly skilled but Tweek being better is a bit of a reach.

sidenote:

How are people coming to the conclusion that Tweek has the best DK?

 

[Man Li Gi]

Now what about Larry Lurr?

Tweek has a better DK than Larry by a landslide.

 

[Zelder]

Tweek ain't a better player than Hikaru. You could argue they're evenly skilled but Tweek being better is a bit of a reach.

sidenote:

How are people coming to the conclusion that Tweek has the best DK?

Well he beat ZeRo, and people also have an attention span of exactly 1 notable tournament.

 

[|RK|]

Tweek ain't a better player than Hikaru. You could argue they're evenly skilled but Tweek being better is a bit of a reach.

sidenote:

How are people coming to the conclusion that Tweek has the best DK?

Tweek is probably straight up better than Hikaru, though Hikaru has the better DK.

The fact that Tweek is so good with multiple characters alone shows his understanding of the game is multifaceted. Tweek has a little further to go, but he's also been doing pretty well this year.

*shrug*

 

[Man Li Gi]

Something that has spurred my attention: how many people view this game as their favorite? I know many people answer with every game bar this game and I wonder why we are so passionate about this game when it's not many people's favorite in the series.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

Something that has spurred my attention: how many people view this game as their favorite? I know many people answer with every game bar this game and I wonder why we are so passionate about this game when it's not many people's favorite in the series.

That would be me this one is my fave. If only for the simple reason that I can play as just my zard and win (granted it's on FG mode but still).
Why does my zard get such good results? Cloud.
To be perfectly blunt I haven't found a proper optimal Cloud player outside of tourney mode. Most get straight up bodied by zard because they can't play optimally and/or they are predictable, though thanks to me playing pokken tournament I once got back into it just to mix up the controls (stupid muscle memory!!!)

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Well he beat ZeRo, and people also have an attention span of exactly 1 notable tournament.

The most meta and accurate thing ever said. Give this man a medal.

 

[verbatim]

Tweek is probably straight up better than Hikaru, though Hikaru has the better DK.

*shrug*

For what it's worth I'd hardbet on Hikaru in fantasy. Tweek is still the king of losing to Japanese players in bracket/pools. In general he seems to do a lot better at one day events than he does at 2 or 3 ones.

G3: Komo (pools)
EVO: Earth (pools)
Genesis Saga: Imhip (not Japanese, pools)
G4: Abadango (to make top 8 winner's side)
Frostbite: Tsu (r1 top 48)
Civil War: Kome (pools)

 

[|RK|]

Something that has spurred my attention: how many people view this game as their favorite? I know many people answer with every game bar this game and I wonder why we are so passionate about this game when it's not many people's favorite in the series.

It's my personal favorite. *shrug*

 

[TDK]

Something that has spurred my attention: how many people view this game as their favorite? I know many people answer with every game bar this game and I wonder why we are so passionate about this game when it's not many people's favorite in the series.

It's my personal favourite by far, although the only game I'm not super fond of in the series is Melee.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

Something that has spurred my attention: how many people view this game as their favorite? I know many people answer with every game bar this game and I wonder why we are so passionate about this game when it's not many people's favorite in the series.

Personally I prefer Melee for its higher skill ceiling and faster game play but I didn't get into competitive Smash till Smash 4 which is much more accessible and still very fun so I play it instead. If I were a few years younger I'd probably be playing it instead but I'm getting old and don't have the time like I used to to invest into something as demanding as Melee.

Relating this to the thread I was thinking the other day a lot of the top Smash 4 players are rather young and have achieved great success at such a early age. Captain Zack, Leo, Locus, Nario, Marrss, FOW, and many others. What is it about Smash 4 that so many people have been able to achieve amazing things and at young ages?

The fact they've been exposed to such high pressure situations and world class events early will do them wonders as they age and esports continue to get bigger, hell I still get jittery playing at 20 man tournaments. That's definitely something I recommend to all younger smash players start the grind early it will do you wonders.

 

[L9999]

Something that has spurred my attention: how many people view this game as their favorite? I know many people answer with every game bar this game and I wonder why we are so passionate about this game when it's not many people's favorite in the series.

Smash4 certainly is my favorite. I love the large cast, the mechanic simplicity, and that I don't need to break my hands and controller to play the freaking game. I also appreciate the pacing since I'm not exceptionally fast.

 

[OverTime]

Smash 4 is my favourite because I feel, with Sheik, that I'm playing directly against my opponent. As opposed to against the game (Brawl) or against a skill cap (Melee).

A lot of Melee players feel like Melee is the best because their character lets them freely express themselves through their play, and I haven't felt that way with another character to the extent that I do with Sheik.

I'm a firm believer that perfect Sheik is untouchable and that motivates me to do better. I feel like it's my fault if I mess up and my fault if I win. That's great for personal growth, I feel.

 

[FeelMeUp]

Well he beat ZeRo, and people also have an attention span of exactly 1 notable tournament.

back handed inapplicable comment aside, how would you argue Hikaru being a better player than Tweek? Results? Notable wins? Peaks?
I'm not really seeing it.

 

[Fenny]

I love Sm4sh but Brawl's my personal favourite, probably for the sole reason that it was my first Smash game

I was probably too young to see all the glaring flaws of it but even now I find it so incredibly fun lol

 

[L9999]

back handed inapplicable comment aside, how would you argue Hikaru being a better player than Tweek? Results? Notable wins? Peaks?
I'm not really seeing it.

I thought the discussion was about who was the best DK...

 

[FeelMeUp]

It was. But my comment was saying it doesn't matter if Hikaru's DK is significantly better when Tweek's the better player. If I had to put money on who would make it further in bracket playing all DK against tip-top level threats, I'd rather bet on Tweek. Hikaru's a monster, but he doesn't seem as good of a player to me. Tweek's a top 15-20 threat, in my opinion. Not seeing the same level from Hikaru at all.

 

[Deleted member]

Smash 4 is my favorite in the series because is in it.

I'm not kidding. I wouldn't be playing this game at all without him. His playstyle is nothing like any other character in the Smash series and he's just a ton of fun and teaches me lots about the game.

 

[Krysco]

Eh, Sm4sh is probably my least favourite Smash tbh. Brawl was the first one that got me into competitive play and it has my favourite character ever . 64 is mostly nostalgia. Melee was my least favourite for a while since the skill floor and ceiling was unappealing to me but after giving it a go with my cousin, I found it quite appealing, namely because of . If PM is to be counted, it actually has my favourite Smash character in (Wolf is my favourite character as a character while PM ZSS is my favourite fighter in Smash if PM is counted). With Sm4sh, I've been hopping from character to character constantly since none of them appeal to me the way Wolf, Falco or ZSS did prior. probably does appeal to me but she seems so damn hard to play, especially for the low level that I'm at. might too but his inputs are unappealing. Pretty much have been sticking with since they're the most enjoyable to me but I quickly get bored of them. I also wasn't a fan of the early meta of the game at all.

As for this whole Tweek vs Hikaru , it actually reminds me of one of ZeRo's videos where he listed his beliefs on the best user of each character in the game and he listed himself I think, or at least wanted to for . Might have just wanted to but listed Fatality since he doesn't really use Falcon that much in tournament.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Smash 4 will likely always be one of my favorite games ever for well..where else will you find a legit, non MUGEN / rom hack game where classic video game icons or at least much loved characters
and even freaking and are all in the same game beating the **** out of each other. Would anyone here think this would happen 10 years..or heck even just before Smash 4 was officially realeased.

Man it seems so long ago that everyone was going crazy over that Nintendo Power April Fools joke about Sonic and Tails being unlockable in Melee...and look what crazy characters are in Smash bros now!

 

[my_T]

back handed inapplicable comment aside, how would you argue Hikaru being a better player than Tweek? Results? Notable wins? Peaks?
I'm not really seeing it.

As far as notable wins for Hikaru:

9B, Ikep, Ron, Mr R, Tsu, Earth, T, and Taiheita all being the most noteworthy. There's also Void if you want to count his secondary Fox. Some of these players are top 20 threats that have managed to beat other top 20 threats, Tweek being one of them. So I would say he certainly has the notable wins to contest Tweeks.

As for results and peaks, we're comparing a DK main to a Cloud main. Not really a fair comparison tbh.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Hikaru has a winning record against most Japanese players. He's regarded as one of their best players. He only loses to Komo (Sonic), SH (Fox), Kirihara (Rosalina) on a regular. Against Shuton he's like even. I dunno where the whole thing switched to Tweek v Hikaru in terms of raw skill came from, but Hikaru def has proven his worth. Tweek wouldn't play DK in an unfavorable MU, while Hikaru would do it because he MAINS DK. Let's say it like this, Hikaru is always considered a top 10 contender to any tourney he goes to. Tweek (as you said) is considered 15-20. I really don't know where the sentiment of believing he has the best DK came from other than hype beasts and non DK players. Baffling to me.

 

[Luigi player]

Tweek has a better DK than Larry by a landslide.

Tweels DK reminds me a lot of M2Ks DK. Very 'basic', but effective. They mostly use fundamentals, but might not know everything about the character / don't have enough experience in some situations to know the best options.

Tweeks DK seems pretty top overall. Hikaru has accomplished more though, imo. He also knows more about the character, so he overall seems better.
Larry knows how to use DKs tilts to their fullest potential it seems. Tweek doesn't use them enough imo, but seems to do better in other situations.
Tweek played a little weird sometimes, like jumping up to Zero when he platform camped... Zero didn't mind taking some damage to not get grabbed and maybe get out of Ding Dong percents, so what was he gonna do? Obviously stay on platforms and just do attacks so Tweek couldn't land on them and go for grabs. What Tweek should have done is cut off Zeros escape options by jumping on the other platforms around him to get up safely and not get hit 300 times trying to jump up to Zero. If he had gone to the other platforms he had more options and would be more threatening to Zero because it would force some reactions. He should've tried to force reactions from Zero while staying a bit out of range or something. Charging the punch would've also helped.

There's also a lot of stuff some DKs don't do. Maybe Tweek could've survived the last hit of GF2 if he knew that DK lives longer to the side if you use uair (he also dies a few % earlier if you try to doublejump).
Besides this and tilts, I also didn't see many dashattacks from him, or upBs out combos at low % to rack up damage.

DKwill obviously understands DK a lot. You can tell by just listening to him. He and Dabuz analyzed Hikarus matches from Civial War and it was amazing insight to hear what both of them had to say for each situation.
I guess DKwill kinda lacks a little in "amazing" results, or should I say top level wins.

There are many DKs around now. Not forgetting Konga or Nurse who do work as well.


With all these results lately DK seems to have shown what he can do.
When I think about his MUs it really feels like to me that it could be possible that they're like:
-3 vs Rosa,
-2 vs Fox,
and everything else is -1 at worst.

DK does okay in neutral (great tilts and decent jab, nice dashattack, amazing grab game), decently good in advantage (bair and grabs or tilts are pretty threatening), has through the roof KO potential with the Ding Dong, and then does suuuuper bad in disadvantage. Like, he gets hit a few times and tries 10 times to finally get back to neutral, and when he does and gets a hit in himself it can be super scary for the opponent already. With his crazy kill-confirm he threatens super early even if he's losing by a lot. He also lives really long to get more chances to get hits in.

To sum it up in a few words: He gets wrecked super hard most of the time, but the match is still about even because just a few hits and a grab can turn it around.
So basically, having really bad or unwinable MUs is almost impossible for him with his design.

He probably deserves to be in High Tier for most people now that he got in more and more great results.

Comparing him to Bowser: Bowser doesn't threaten as hard imo, or actually he does, but it's easier to avoid or something? His moves are more laggy and unsafe, making his neutral worse overall, but Koo-pa is a bit more reliable than Ding Dong. I think DK is a few spots above him.

 

[my_T]

Tweels DK reminds me a lot of M2Ks DK. Very 'basic', but effective. They mostly use fundamentals, but might not know everything about the character / don't have enough experience in most situations to know the best options.

Tweeks DK seems pretty top overall. Hikaru has accomplished more though, imo. He also knows more about the character, so he overall seems better.
Larry knows how to use DKs tilts to their fullest potential it seems. Tweek doesn't use them enough imo, but seems to do better in other situations.
Tweek played a little weird sometimes, like jumping up to Zero when he platform camped... Zero didn't mind taking some damage to not get grabbed and maybe get out of Ding Dong percents, so what was he gonna do? Obviously stay on platforms and just do attacks so Tweek couldn't land on them and go for grabs. What Tweek should have done is cut off Zeros escape options by jumping on the other platforms around him to get up safely and not get hit 300 times trying to jump up to Zero. If he had gone to the other platforms he had more options and would be more threatening to Zero because it would force some reactions. He should've tried to force reactions from Zero while staying a bit out of range or something. Charging the punch would've also helped.

There's also a lot of stuff some DKs don't do. Maybe Tweek could've survived the last hit of GF2 if he knew that DK lives longer to the side if you use uair (he also dies a few % earlier if you try to doublejump).
Besides this and tilts, I also didn't see many dashattacks from him, or upBs out combos at low % to rack up damage.

DKwill obviously understands DK a lot. You can tell by just listening to him. He and Dabuz analyzed Hikarus matches from Civial War and it was amazing insight to hear what both of them had to say for each situation.
I guess DKwill kinda lacks a little in "amazing" results, or should I say top level wins.

There are many DKs around now. Not forgetting Konga or Nurse who do work as well.


With all these results lately DK seems to have shown what he can do.
When I think about his MUs it really feels like to me that it could be possible that they're like:
-3 vs Rosa,
-2 vs Fox,
and everything else is -1 at worst.

DK does okay in neutral (great tilts and decent jab, nice dashattack, amazing grab game), decently good in advantage (bair and grabs or tilts are pretty threatening), has through the roof KO potential with the Ding Dong, and then does suuuuper bad in disadvantage. Like, he gets hit a few times and tries 10 times to finally get back to neutral, and when he does and gets a hit in himself it can be super scary for the opponent already. With his crazy kill-confirm he threatens super early even if he's losing by a lot. He also lives really long to get more chances to get hits in.

To sum it up in a few words: He gets wrecked super hard most of the time, but the match is still about even because just a few hits and a grab can turn it around.
So basically, having really bad or unwinable MUs is almost impossible for him with his design.

He probably deserves to be in High Tier for most people now that he got in more and more great results.

Comparing him to Bowser: Bowser doesn't threaten as hard imo, pr actually he does, but it's easier to avoid or something? His moves are more laggy and unsafe, making his neutral worse overall, but Koo-pa is a bit more reliable than Ding Dong. I think DK is a few spots above him.

I think the Sonic MU is -2 for DK as well. Very rough MU

 

[ぱみゅ]

Something that has spurred my attention: how many people view this game as their favorite? I know many people answer with every game bar this game and I wonder why we are so passionate about this game when it's not many people's favorite in the series.

Community support for my favorite game is dead. A lot of people even spur hateful words towards it despite not ever playing it in a serious way. They think it is cool to hate it even if they do not understand what the fuss is about.

As a TO I was forced to move on.

I don't like Smash 4 all that much but it helps the community grow and I do not like doing stuff without knowing what I am doing, so here I am, playing, competing, doing my best to win, and trying to learn as much about the game as I can.

 

[Gunla]

V3 Followup is out. Includes regional data from Japan, US & International data, some stuff on upcoming projects and a look at a few of some of the more debated characters.

 

[Y2Kay]

Fast paced fighting games like Marvel and Smash has always been a blast for me to play. My waning interest in smash has less to do with the gmaeplay and more to do with . . . people.

 

[TheRabidChipmunk]

With all these results lately DK seems to have shown what he can do.
When I think about his MUs it really feels like to me that it could be possible that they're like:
-3 vs Rosa,
-2 vs Fox,
and everything else is -1 at worst.

I'd add Toon Link to the -3 list. He's small, mobile, has an excellent keep-away game and Ding Dong barely works on him.

Comparing him to Bowser: Bowser doesn't threaten as hard imo, or actually he does, but it's easier to avoid or something? His moves are more laggy and unsafe, making his neutral worse overall, but Koo-pa is a bit more reliable than Ding Dong. I think DK is a few spots above him.

So here's my insight on Bowser vs. DK. These are some ideas I've been mulling over for a while, so I'm eager to see what input I can receive.

The way I see it, Bowser is a lot like a superheavy Meta Knight, in that he has a heavily ground-based neutral centered around baiting out options from your opponent and punishing them hard, but since both characters generally lack safe buttons (Boozer at least has jab), the best way they can pressure opponents is with positioning and ground control. Dabuz refers to this as "false pressure," I believe, but personally I prefer to call it "aggressive spacing." It's about edging more and more into your opponent's comfort zone until they feel compelled to make a move, and then punishing it. This gameplan previously didn't work for Bowser because his options just weren't threatening enough, but now that he has 30% conversions off of grab, just him being near you is enough to exert a huge amount of pressure.

Meanwhile, DK is like a superheavy Mario: he's a boxer who can match you button-for-button if he wants, but what he's really after is a grab. In this case, he exchanges Mario's oppressive frame data for range and disjoints. Unlike Bowser, DK is not limited to the ground, as he has that famous bair to challenge airborne opponents and space against grounded ones, as well as the air speed and fall speed to optimally abuse it. He also has better poking tools than Bowser, most notably in that frame 7 disjointed d-tilt that can potentially lead into his devastating grab game.

Also, while Ding Dong is a lot more powerful than Koo-pah, DK is also far more reliant on it. I don't know how common knowledge this is, but if something goes wrong and the opponent slips past Ding Dong percent, DK can struggle hugely to close out the stock, since his best kill set up is gone and he's reverted to pre-patch DK. There are many more, I'm sure, but the two examples that come most readily to my mind are Tweek vs. Abadango and DKWill vs. John Numbers: in both games the DK's poked their opponents past Ding Dong percents, and couldn't find another way to take the stock. Bowser, however, oozes kill-potential from his very pores. Between f-tilt, d-tilt (esp. at the ledge), fthrow and bthrow, fair, bair, Flying Slam and jab 1 mixups, Bowser is less reliant on his kill set up, which makes up for it only working at later percents.

As for which character is better, that I can't comment on. I guess it depends on what the meta is in more need of right now -- a boxer who goes toe-to-toe with the enemy and can fight back in the air, or a character with a more refined but limited gameplan centered around bait-and-punish and ground control.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

With this talk about DK and HIKARU having wins over the top Japanese Bayo's Ikep and 9B I wonder what people think of the Bayo vs DK MU.

It seems similar to the case vs Sheik where technically she has all the tools to solidly beat DK, but all he really needs is 1or 2 Ding-Dongs at the right time to quickly steal stocks from her.

Yea Bayo combos DK big old behind all over the place and can annihilate him offstage. But the theater of Ding dong seems to keep the MU seemly just around only 55-45 for Bayo.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

Community support for my favorite game is dead. A lot of people even spur hateful words towards it despite not ever playing it in a serious way. They think it is cool to hate it even if they do not understand what the fuss is about.

As a TO I was forced to move on.

I don't like Smash 4 all that much but it helps the community grow and I do not like doing stuff without knowing what I am doing, so here I am, playing, competing, doing my best to win, and trying to learn as much about the game as I can.

Just wondering what IS your favorite game anyways? I know this is a board for Smash brothers but I'm genuinely curious. I myself play a lot of Marvel vs. Capcom myself but I'm terrible at it.

 

[TDK]

Aarvark 2-1 VoiD

 

[RonNewcomb]

Something that has spurred my attention: how many people view this game as their favorite? I know many people answer with every game bar this game and I wonder why we are so passionate about this game when it's not many people's favorite in the series.

I'd go with an even-numbered Street Fighter. I have issues with the Smash series's controls.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Looking to gauge some opinions here...

What are people's opinions on right now?

For me, he's clearly a pretty solid character, but since his performance at EVO last year, he's just been really... lacking; sort of on a steady decline.

It seems top players are starting to rank Mega Man a bit lower too; when ZeRo released his "Mid Tier" video, he took it down almost half an hour into releasing it because the end round up had his "High Tier" image. In said image, Mega Man was ranked somewhere between 26th-31st... something like that (of course this could change by the time the actual video releases, but it's worth noting).

And hasn't Kameme dropped Mega Man now (or at least expressed desire to no longer have him as his main)?

What do you all think of the super fighting robot?

I've got a few more characters I am also looking to get some general opinion on, but I'll drip them into here slowly so discussion is more focused.

 

[FeelMeUp]

Olimar does what MM likes to do but has real killing potential
MM kinda sucks, imo, and I stand by my thoughts that Kameme's MU chart became truer as time went on.
and by kinda sucks i mean worse than falcon, because falcon sucks : ))

 

[Wintermelon43]

Looking to gauge some opinions here...

What are people's opinions on right now?

For me, he's clearly a pretty solid character, but since his performance at EVO last year, he's just been really... lacking; sort of on a steady decline.

It seems top players are starting to rank Mega Man a bit lower too; when ZeRo released his "Mid Tier" video, he took it down almost half an hour into releasing it because the end round up had his "High Tier" image. In said image, Mega Man was ranked somewhere between 26th-31st... something like that (of course this could change by the time the actual video releases, but it's worth noting).

And hasn't Kameme dropped Mega Man now (or at least expressed desire to no longer have him as his main)?

What do you all think of the super fighting robot?

I've got a few more characters I am also looking to get some general opinion on, but I'll drip them into here slowly so discussion is more focused.

I still think he's around the top of high tier. His matchup spread hasn't exactly gotten worse (Minus the Bayonetta matchup), and he still seems to be really good. The problem is that Kameme hasn't been performing quite as well. However, going off of what I've seen and other people have said, his loss of success mostly has to do with him as a player, and the fact that people have learned the matchup now. Based on what I've heard, his 33rd at Civil War was mostly because he hadn't performed that well in general at that tournament (Espicially aganist Mr. E). And didn't Kameme lose to Captain Zack at another tournament this year too?

So IMO Mega Man's still at the top of high tier, and hasn't moved down more than maybe a few spots.

 

[Yikarur]

@Das Koopa
Tournament from saturday

 

[wedl!!]

Something that has spurred my attention: how many people view this game as their favorite? I know many people answer with every game bar this game and I wonder why we are so passionate about this game when it's not many people's favorite in the series.

It's not my favorite at all but no one plays GG or Marvel at my locals and Tekken doesn't come out for a couple of months so I have to compensate by playing S4 and SFV.