3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[PK Gaming]

Marth didn't get any down throw buffs

I repeat, down throw is unchanged

 

[Lavani]

- I don't know exactly what, but something just feels different about his D-Smash...

The sourspot's as strong as the sweetspot used to be and the sweetspot got buffed to 13% with more knockback.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Her buffs are minor. ****ing read them holy ****. FSmash is a LITTLE (keyword: Little) safer. D-throw is at a slightly more favorable angle MAYBE, Fsmash hits CONSISTENTLY as opposed to badly, what the hell is the problem again?

I'm only going to say it once. Always read what has actually been buffed as opposed to flailing around like a sissy. None of those are major, not even the Side-B buff! A large majority of her "buffs" are purely making moves more consistent which is how they SHOULD be.

Her FSmash was already among the hardest-hitting and safest attacks in the game in my experience. It needed a nerf, not a buff.

 

[TTTTTsd]

You wanted them to nerf a move that had people dropping out of it when it hit? Are you crazy?

Maybe we should make Bowser's FSmash have a tipper hitbox too while we're at it, that kills way too easy for a hard read!

 

[Judo777]

I am pretty mad about this. It was like the most uninformed changes I have ever seen. It seems like they based their decisions entirely off of forum whining and not off of actual competitive game play.

I'm not mad at the nerfs to Sheik directly but I am mad about them removing mechanics like DACUS and edge cancel bouncing fish, why would they remove the stuff that actually makes you put time into the character. Lets make her easier to use....

It's funny I jokingly told my friend when he mentioned the bouncing fish nerf, that they probably nerfed bowsercide......... and then he told me they did and i died laughing. Literally catering to the casual player with every change............

 

[Spirst]

I am pretty mad about this. It was like the most uninformed changes I have ever seen. It seems like they based their decisions entirely off of forum whining and not off of actual competitive game play.

I'm not mad at the nerfs to Sheik directly but I am mad about them removing mechanics like DACUS and edge cancel bouncing fish, why would they remove the stuff that actually makes you put time into the character. Lets make her easier to use....

It's funny I jokingly told my friend when he mentioned the bouncing fish nerf, that they probably nerfed bowsercide......... and then he told me they did and i died laughing. Literally catering to the casual player with every change............

Wait, is DACUS really gone? For everyone? I'm going to get really annoyed if it is since Greninja had a great one and with the nerfs, that would at least be nice.

 

[Remzi]

I think most of this ZSS talk is hearsay and/or confirmation bias.

I definitely believe that side B connects more reliably and uncharged paralyzer may have less range. EVERYTHING else I've heard I need more evidence before I believe. For one, Greninja still pops out of Fsmash unless its done at point blank range.

 

[TTTTTsd]

To be fair I'm PRETTY sure the Bowsercide nerf was because of Side-B 2 being a free stock AND a dashgrab at the same time.

Wait, they removed DACUS? No, for everyone? Or is it just Sheik...

 

[Saikyoshi]

You wanted them to nerf a move that had people dropping out of it when it hit? Are you stupid?

Maybe we should make Bowser's FSmash have a tipper hitbox too while we're at it, that kills way too easy for a hard read!

I don't know, maybe I just consistently fight really good Zamuses. I can handle the ones that just spam it, but a lot of people seem to really know how to use it.

 

[NairWizard]

Marth didn't get any down throw buffs

I repeat, down throw is unchanged

It doesn't combo?

 

[Alphatron]

DACUS hasn't been removed at all. Well, sliding up smash anyway. That's been confirmed to still be in the game. It's just a lot harder to do now with tap jump off.

I feel you on the bouncing fish nerf.

 

[200X!!]

Ness's down throw now works properly on Game & Watch, who was previously too flat to be hit by most of it.

 

[Thinkaman]

DACUS hasn't been removed at all. Well, sliding up smash anyway.

I swear to God I'm going to flip a table up in here.

A running up-smash is not a Dash Attack Canceled Up-Smash.

 

[Jabejazz]

At the very worst, the Bowsercide issue can be circumvented in tournaments by giving the victory to the Bowser if he successfully executes the move when both are at last stock.

In other situations, I agree it's a tad silly. But so is getting out for free with a custom UpB.

 

[Spiderfog]

More stuff on Greninja:
- Ike's D-Smash KO'd me at 67% and his F-Tilt KO'd me at 85%, both on Corneria.
- B-Air might have less knockback.
- Like Lavani said, D-Smash has been buffed.


- Dark Pit's F-Smash may be a bit stronger.

 

[DarkKiru]

I am pretty mad about this. It was like the most uninformed changes I have ever seen. It seems like they based their decisions entirely off of forum whining and not off of actual competitive game play.

I'm not mad at the nerfs to Sheik directly but I am mad about them removing mechanics like DACUS and edge cancel bouncing fish, why would they remove the stuff that actually makes you put time into the character. Lets make her easier to use....

It's funny I jokingly told my friend when he mentioned the bouncing fish nerf, that they probably nerfed bowsercide......... and then he told me they did and i died laughing. Literally catering to the casual player with every change............

To be perfectly fair, its likely not based on whining of any kind, since the patch would've had to have been done concept wise, by the start of october (and actually done coding, changing and testing by mid to late october; since the Wii U version defaults to this patch, and it would've had to have been shipped out quite early for review copies and store distribution). If anything its likely just the balance team doing more balance post- Japanese 3ds launch (because reasons).

That said I agree mostly.

 

[Remzi]

Running/Sliding USmash is NOT the same as DACUS. Lol.

Somebody please give us a final answer on this. I really hope its still in.

 

[Thinkaman]

Running/Sliding USmash is NOT the same as DACUS. Lol.

Somebody please give us a final answer on this. I really hope its still in.

I'm pretty sure it's not. I still haven't done one with any character.

 

[Wraeith]

It doesn't combo?

Alleged only 'confirmed' changes for Marth/Lucina is that they can act out of D-Throw and F-Throw a bit quicker. I've yet to see any evidence attesting to it though. Not sure if it's a true combo, but I recall hearing Up-Air worked quite reliably.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm pretty sure it's not. I still haven't done one with any character.

That moment when the Ganon DACUS hype dies

 

[Dextroyean]

jiggly change something?

 

[Pryze]

I've heard Ness' down throw has a higher knock back and its harder to combo into fair now. Can anyone confirm this?

Knockback seems to be unchanged.

 

[Cookie_Aroma]

What's this dash attack nerf for Yoshi?

Dash attack has increased ending lag on it.
Also, Neutral-B takes longer to come out (the sound effect even plays later when done side-by-side)
D-Air has increased landing lag.

I'm very positive of those changes. If someone could get video evidence of them for confirmation, it'd be great.

 

[irokex13]

Small change to Dark Pit. His side B Electroshock now does 11% damage instead of 13% damage. So it was just changed to match Pit's side B.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario's UpB has more landing lag after he lands on the stage with it. I can confirm this is legit a nerf to him.

 

[Lavani]

Regarding Marth, I can't speak for fthrow but dthrow>uair was a possible combo up to 90% against ZSS prior to this patch. I kind of doubt dthrow was changed in any way, at the least.

 

[PK Gaming]

It doesn't combo?

Not anymore than it used, sadly

You can find a more detailed explanation HERE

 

[Lemon Girl]

I've heard Ness' down throw has a higher knock back and its harder to combo into fair now. Can anyone confirm this?

Tested, works the same as before.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm crying IRL right now about DACUS. Please, someone, keep testing! It's gotta be there, I was waiting for WiiU for the sole purpose of using it with Ganon......................

If it's not, I'll just...be here.

 

[Terotrous]

I'm crying IRL right now about DACUS. Please, someone, keep testing! It's gotta be there, I was waiting for WiiU for the sole purpose of using it with Ganon......................

If it's not, I'll just...be here.

In another topic, someone wrote that DACUS was impossible with Tap Jump off, but could still be done with it on.

Honestly, I'd much rather have it be totally gone rather than only in for people using certain control schemes.


It's possible that the change to running upsmash just makes it far harder to do with Tap Jump off as you may now require a jump cancel in there.

 

[popsofctown]

At the very worst, the Bowsercide issue can be circumvented in tournaments by giving the victory to the Bowser if he successfully executes the move when both are at last stock.

In other situations, I agree it's a tad silly. But so is getting out for free with a custom UpB.

Such a rule shouldn't be made. It's unintuitive to players new to the scene and is not a necessary balance change.

Bowser side3 will just probably be the new meta. If you do the waveslide with side 3 you can get the same dashing grab as side b2. It's a more skill intensive Bowser going forward, not such a bad thing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm crying IRL right now about DACUS. Please, someone, keep testing! It's gotta be there, I was waiting for WiiU for the sole purpose of using it with Ganon......................

If it's not, I'll just...be here.

I don't even care about DACUS on Ganondorf when SAFE ON BLOCK N-AIR APPROACH IS REAL.

That alone makes the character viable.

 

[momochuu]

nobody knows if dacus is in yet until the 21st.

 

[Thinkaman]

And I'll be over here, dancing on the grave of yet another piece of jank.

I've spent the last six years doing stupid, unnecessarily difficult DACUS inputs on Jigglypuff. My fingers won't miss it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So all of Lucario's damage is the same as before, nothing changed.

But lag on moves got changed I think? Like UpB 1, I heard from others his custom UpB still have the end lag he did before but I never used them myself. I'll check what is seems to be for endlag.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I don't even care about DACUS on Ganondorf when SAFE ON BLOCK N-AIR APPROACH IS REAL.

That alone makes the character viable.

Wait WHAT hold up, the frame data permits this?

And I'll be over here, dancing on the grave of yet another piece of jank.

I've spent the last six years doing stupid, unnecessarily difficult DACUS inputs on Jigglypuff. My fingers won't miss it.

They should've just allowed more running UpSmashes, but alas, I'll live.

 

[Spinosaurus]

jiggly change something?

Friend told me that Pound pushes her a tiny bit more forward now but don't quote me on that. Someone should test it.

 

[Thinkaman]

Pit and Dark Pit f-tilt are unchanged. (Still different knockback)

Friend told me that Pound pushes her a tiny bit more forward now but don't quote me on that. Someone should test it.

I can see no difference.

 

[DarkKiru]

So.... assuming it truly is gone (we sadly don't know for sure until the 21st but lets be hypothetical)

Thoughts on the removal of DACUS and this patch as a whole thus far?

My thoughts: Not sure how I feel about losing DACUS, it was a valuable option but its unnecessarily difficult sometimes; I rather like the changes with the patch overall sans a few, very few things seem overbuffed or overnerfed.

 

[ZHMT]

Friend told me that Pound pushes her a tiny bit more forward now but don't quote me on that. Someone should test it.

Pound has no changes, her only changes are to her rollout glitch, which was removed.