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3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

Discussion in 'Wii U / 3DS Smash Academy' started by SamuraiPanda, Nov 18, 2014.

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  1. SamuraiPanda

    SamuraiPanda
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    Smash Hero

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    Here it is guys, lets figure out what is different! Changes will only be added to the OP if they have a) sufficient evidence [i.e. video comparisons or frame data], b) Multiple sources confirming, c) Direct comparison to v1.0.3 or earlier, or d) You are Dantarion.

    Let's do this.

    KEY
    • Any values labeled as red is a nerf
    • Any values labeled as light green is a buff
    • Any values with no colour is something that can be considered a nerf or a buff
    • Striked out values are from last patch
    GENERAL GAMEPLAY CHANGES
    • Preliminary results show that VECTORING MAY BE REMOVED AND DI IS BACK IN THE GAME
      What this means: More intuitive inputs for veterans, EARLIER kills and MORE COMBOS (possibly)
    • DACUS removed (to clarify: this is NOT a Usmash while running which is still possible)
    • Roll cancelled pivot grab timing has been tightened significantly
    :4bowser: BOWSER
    FLYING SLAM & DASH SLAM

    GAMEPLAY MECHANIC : When used off the edge now KO's Bowser before the opponent​

    :4bowserjr: BOWSER JR.
    DTHROW

    DTHROW DAMAGE : 8% ⇒ 7.5%
    DTHROW NUMBER OF HITS : 10 ⇒ 8​

    :4charizard: CHARIZARD
    DRAGON RUSH (Custom side B)

    DAMAGE : 15% ⇒ 11%​

    :4dedede: KING DEDEDE
    FAIR

    DAMAGE : 13% ⇒ 12%​
    DTHROW
    ANGLE : 70 ⇒ 80
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 60 ⇒ 82​
    GORDO THROW
    REFLECT THRESHOLD : 3% ⇒ 2%
    (14%) HITBOX SIZE : 3.5 ⇒ 3.1
    (12.5%) HITBOX SIZE : 3.3 ⇒ 2.9
    (11%) HITBOX SIZE : 3.1 ⇒ 2.6
    (9%) HITBOX SIZE : 2.8 ⇒ 2.4
    BUGFIX : Fixed a bug where air dodging or using nair would cause odd behaviour in hit Gordos​
    TOPSPIN GORDO
    REFLECT THRESHOLD : 3% ⇒ 2%
    HITBOX SIZE : 3.5 ⇒ 3.1​
    BOUNCING GORDO
    REFLECT THRESHOLD : 3% ⇒ 2%
    HITBOX SIZE : 3.5 ⇒ 3.1​

    :4diddy: DIDDY KONG
    JAB 3

    HITBOX SIZE : 4 ⇒ 5​
    PEANUT POPGUN
    BUGFIX : Cancelling hitstun with Peanut Popgun removed​

    :4drmario: DR. MARIO
    FAIR

    (15%) KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 95 ⇒ 102
    (10/11%) KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 85 ⇒ 95​
    DAIR
    DAIR NUMBER OF HITS : 7 ⇒ 5
    DAIR DAMAGE : 12.75% ⇒ 10.99~%
    DAIR LANDING LAG : Reduced​

    :4falco: FALCO
    FAIR LANDING HITBOX

    DAMAGE : 2% ⇒ 5%
    POSITIONING : Hitbox positions have been tweaked​
    LASER
    PEW PEW : While grounded Falco shoots lasers faster​
    VOID REFLECTOR
    BUGFIX : Now properly reflects Villager's Timber​

    :4ganondorf: GANONDORF
    NAIR

    LANDING LAG : Reduced moderately​
    FAIR
    LANDING LAG : Reduced slightly​
    UAIR
    LANDING LAG : Reduced slightly​
    DAIR
    LANDING LAG : Reduced slightly​
    BAIR
    LANDING LAG Reduced slightly​

    :4gaw:GAME & WATCH
    PARACHUTE

    BUGFIX Grabbing Game & Watch after he uses up B now refreshes his up B​
    BUCKET
    ABSORB CHANGE Bucket no longer fills completely with a single Pikachu thunder [note: technically this is actually a Pikachu change​

    :4greninja: GRENINJA
    USMASH

    (5%) HITBOX SIZE : 6.5 ⇒ 5
    (14%) HITBOX SIZE : 7 ⇒ 6
    (HIT 2) DAMAGE : 13% ⇒ 11%
    LATE DAMAGE : 11% ⇒ 10%
    ENDING LAG : Moderately increased​
    DSMASH
    DAMAGE : 11% ⇒ 13%
    LATE DAMAGE : 9% ⇒ 11%
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 93 ⇒ 90​
    FAIR
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 92 ⇒ 84​
    UAIR
    (HIT 6) KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 190 ⇒ 168
    GENERAL : Structural changes including a new hitbox with a 85 angle following the normal autolink (365) one​
    WATER SHURIKAN
    ENDING LAG : Increased​
    SHADOW SNEAK
    FLIP KICK KNOCKBACK GROWTH
    : 100 ⇒ 102
    BACK KICK KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 100 ⇒ 101
    FLYING NINJAS : Aerial Shadow Sneak has less ending lag
    BUGFIX : Greninja can no longer cancel aerial landing lag with Shadow Sneak​
    HYDRO PUMP
    BASE KNOCKBACK : 85 ⇒ 65
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 130 ⇒ 100​

    :4myfriends: IKE
    JAB 3

    HITS ON : Frame 9 ⇒ Frame 8​
    FTILT
    ENDING LAG : Reduced​
    DTILT
    HITBOX SIZE : 4/4 ⇒ 3.8/3
    DAMAGE : 7% ⇒ 8%
    ANGLE : 361 ⇒ 80
    BASE KNOCKBACK : 50 ⇒ 70
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 90 ⇒ 70
    POSITIONING : Hitbox positions have been tweaked​
    FAIR
    HITBOX SIZE : 4.5 ⇒ 5
    GENERAL : Animation is faster, has much earlier autocancel frames, hitbox positions tweaked slightly​
    DAIR
    HITBOX SIZE : 4.8 ⇒ 6
    SPIKE HITBOX SIZE : 4.5/5.3 ⇒ 5.5/6.3​
    BAIR
    DAMAGE : 13% ⇒ 14%​
    COUNTER
    BUGFIX : Fixed a bug where using Counter at certain parts of a walk or run animation would propel Ike forward a short distance​

    :4kirby: KIRBY
    INHALE

    GENERAL : Some hats of tweaked neutral special attacks have been changed​

    :4jigglypuff: JIGGLYPUFF
    ROLLOUT

    BUGFIX : Rollout's instant reversal glitch has been removed​

    :4link: LINK
    FSMASH 1

    (7%) BASE KNOCKBACK : 60 ⇒ 47​
    DAIR
    BUGFIX : Fastfall down air no longer bounces on shields​
    BOMBS
    BUGFIX : Bomb cancelling aerial lag has been removed.​

    :4littlemac: LITTLE MAC
    REPEATING JAB
    DAMAGE PER HIT: 1% ⇒ 0.7%​
    JAB COMBO ENDER
    DAMAGE : 8% ⇒ 7%​
    FTILT
    POSITIONING : Hitboxes have been moved closer to Little Mac, reducing his effective range​
    NAIR
    SDI MULTIPLIER : 1.0× ⇒ 2.0×​
    JOLT HAYMAKER
    AERIAL SIDE B : Distance has been reduced by 10% and travels at a slower speed​

    :4lucario: LUCARIO
    EXTREMESPEED

    LANDING LAG : Increased​

    :4lucina: LUCINA
    JAB 1

    JAB 1 KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 60 ⇒ 50
    JAB 1 BASE KNOCKBACK : 25 ⇒ 20​
    COUNTER
    BUGFIX : Using Counter after being trumped from the ledge no longer changes momentum​

    :4luigi: LUIGI
    FSMASH

    (NOT ANGLED) ANGLE : 55 ⇒ 53
    (ALL ANGLES) DAMAGE : 14% ⇒ 15%​
    DSMASH
    (HIT 2) ANGLE : 70 ⇒ 60
    (HIT 2) KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 80 ⇒ 100​
    FAIR
    HITBOX SIZE : 4.8 ⇒ 5.6​
    SUPER JUMP PUNCH
    (20%) HITBOX SIZE : 2.1 ⇒ 2.2
    (25%) HITBOX SIZE : 1.6 ⇒ 1.7
    POSITIONING : Hitbox positions have been tweaked​

    :4mario: MARIO
    UTILT

    DAMAGE : 6.3% ⇒ 5.5%​

    :4marth: MARTH
    COUNTER

    BUGFIX : Using Counter after being trumped from the ledge no longer changes momentum​

    :4megaman: MEGA MAN
    RUSH

    BUGFIX : Cancelling hitstun with Rush removed
    BUGFIX : Grabbing Megaman after he uses up B now refreshes up B​
    LEAF SHIELD
    ENDING LAG : Reduced
    :4metaknight: META KNIGHT
    NAIR

    DAMAGE : 7% ⇒ 10%
    LATE DAMAGE : 5% ⇒ 7.5%​
    FAIR
    (HITS 1 & 2) ANGLE : 365 (autolink) ⇒ 85
    (HITS 1 & 2) KNOCKBACK : Reduced to compensate losing the autolink angle​
    UAIR
    VISUAL : Sword trails have been reduced to match hitbox size better
    POSITIONING : Hitbox positions have been tweaked​
    DAIR
    VISUAL : Sword trails have been reduced to match hitbox size better
    POSITIONING : Hitbox positions have been tweaked​
    BAIR
    (4%) KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 180 ⇒ 212​
    FTHROW
    BUGFIX : Forward throw now does the correct amount of damage to characters who were only taking 3%​

    :4ness: NESS
    PK THUNDER 2

    ENDING LAG : Increased​
    DTHROW
    DAMAGE : 9% ⇒ 7%
    BUGFIX : Down throw now does the correct amount of damage to Mr. Game & Watch​

    :4olimar: OLIMAR
    PIKMIN PLUCK

    BUGFIX : Pikmin Pluck cannot be ledge canceled anymore​
    PIKMIN THROW
    W PIKMIN LATCH DAMAGE : 2.6% per tic ⇒ 3.7% per tic
    R/B/Y PIKMIN LATCH DAMAGE : 1.3% per tic ⇒ 1.1% per tic
    PIKMIN LATCH TIME : Pikmin stay attached for longer.​
    PIKMIN
    BUGFIX : Using down smash after a down throw no longer makes Pikmin unusable​

    :4pacman: PACMAN
    USMASH

    ENDING LAG : Increased​
    NEUTRAL B (GALAGA)
    DAMAGE : 11% ⇒ 9%​
    FIRE HYDRANT
    FIRE HYDRANT INTEGRITY : 12 HP ⇒ 13 HP​

    :4palutena: PALUTENA
    UTILT

    ENDING LAG : Reduced​
    DTILT
    ENDING LAG : Reduced​
    USMASH
    HITBOX ENDS : Frame 25 ⇒ Frame 28​
    COUNTER
    BUGFIX : Fixed a bug where using Counter at certain parts of a walk or run animation would propel Palutena forward a short distance​
    PIVOT GRAB
    SIZE : Range reduced​

    :4peach: PEACH
    GENERAL

    BUGFIX : Aerials properly stale when used while floating.​
    TURNIP PULL
    BUGFIX : Turnip cancelling aerial lag has been removed
    BUGFIX : Turnip ledge cancelling has been removed.​

    :4pikachu: PIKACHU
    FSMASH

    (15%) KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 65 ⇒ 73
    (12%) KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 100 ⇒ 102​
    SKULL BASH
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 60 ⇒ 62​
    THUNDER
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 62 ⇒ 66
    GENERAL : Only has one projectile instead of 4, meaning it cannot fully charge G&W Bucket​

    :4robinm: ROBIN
    THORON

    BUGFIX : Can no longer get a 3rd jump by fully charging Thoron​
    ELWIND
    RECOVERY : Can grab the ledge backwards now​
    GENERAL
    BUGFIX : Footstool glitch allowing the Zero Suit Samus infinite has been fixed​

    :rosalina: ROSALINA AND LUMA
    DTILT

    HITS ON : 5 ⇒ 6
    POSITIONING : Hitbox positions have been tweaked​
    FSMASH
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 115 ⇒ 111​
    USMASH
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 100 ⇒ 90
    HITBOX SIZE : Very slightly reduced​
    DSMASH
    ENDING LAG : Increased​
    NAIR
    EARLY NAIR DAMAGE : 6% ⇒ 5%
    LATE NAIR DAMAGE : 10% ⇒ 7.5%
    POSITIONING : Hitbox positions have been tweaked​
    FAIR
    (1%) BASE KNOCKBACK : 20/35 ⇒ 55
    (4%) BASE KNOCKBACK : 60 ⇒ 50​
    LUMA SHOT
    DISTANCE : Uncharged and lightly charged Luma Shot has slightly less distance​
    FTHROW
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 85 ⇒ 76​
    BTHROW
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 70 ⇒ 60​
    GRAB
    ENDING LAG : Increased​
    LUMA MECHANICS
    LUMA RESPAWN : 8.9 seconds ⇒ 12.5 seconds
    UP SMASH HITBOX SIZE : 4 ⇒ 5.5
    LATE UP SMASH DAMAGE : 4% ⇒ 5%
    LUMA RECALL : Returns to Rosalina faster
    LUMA : Cannot be controlled while being thrown or taking damage​

    :4sheik: SHEIK
    FAIR

    DAMAGE : 6.8% ⇒ 5.5%
    SOURSPOT DAMAGE : 6% ⇒ 4.8%​
    UAIR
    NUMBER OF HITS : 5 ⇒ 4
    DAMAGE : 8% ⇒ 7%
    (4% HIT) KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 155 ⇒ 138​
    NEEDLE STORM
    ENDING LAG : Increased​
    BOUNCING FISH
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 100 ⇒ 90
    BASE KNOCKBACK : 30 ⇒ 26​

    :4shulk: SHULK
    JAB 1

    DAMAGE : 3% ⇒ 3.5%​
    JAB 2
    DAMAGE : 3% ⇒ 3.5%​
    JAB 3
    DAMAGE : 4.3% ⇒ 5.3%​
    DASH ATTACK
    DAMAGE : 10% ⇒ 11%​
    FTILT
    DAMAGE : 12% ⇒ 13%
    KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 100 ⇒ 92​
    UTILT
    DAMAGE : 7% ⇒ 8%​
    DTILT
    DAMAGE : 8% ⇒ 9%
    GENERAL : Hitboxes made more reliable​
    FSMASH
    DAMAGE : 17.5% ⇒ 18.5%
    GENERAL : Hitboxes on first hit cleaned up and made more reliable​
    USMASH
    DAMAGE : 17% ⇒ 18%​
    DSMASH
    DAMAGE : All hitboxes increased by 1%​
    NAIR
    SWEETSPOT DAMAGE : 7% ⇒ 8%
    SOURSPOT DAMAGE : 6% ⇒ 7%​
    FAIR
    SWEETSPOT DAMAGE : 6.5% ⇒ 7.5%
    SOURSPOT DAMAGE : 5% ⇒ 6%
    LANDING LAG: Reduced slightly​
    UAIR
    DAMAGE : 13% ⇒ 15%​
    DAIR
    DAMAGE : 15% ⇒ 17%​
    BAIR
    DAMAGE : 11% ⇒ 12%
    LATE DAMAGE : 7% ⇒ 8%​
    MONADO ARTS
    MONADO ART SPEED DAMAGE DEALT MULTIPLIER : 0.72× ⇒ 0.8×
    MONADO ART BUSTER DAMAGE TAKEN MULTIPLIER : 1.2× ⇒ 1.13×​
    AIR SLASH
    (HIT 1) DAMAGE : 5% ⇒ 6%​
    FTHROW
    DAMAGE : 10% ⇒ 11%​
    UTHROW
    DAMAGE : 6% ⇒ 7%​
    DTHROW
    DAMAGE : 6% ⇒ 7%​
    BTHROW
    DAMAGE : 11% ⇒ 12%​

    :4sonic: SONIC
    FSMASH

    ENDING LAG : Increased​
    SPRING
    BUGFIX : Grabbing Sonic after he uses up B now refreshes his up B​

    :4tlink: TOON LINK
    BOMBS

    BUGFIX : Bomb cancelling aerial lag has been removed​

    :4wario: WARIO
    GENERAL

    BUGFIX : Wario's momentum glitch (Wectoring) has been removed.
    BUGFIX : Air grab release sends Wario farther and cannot be combo'd out of​

    :4wiifit: WII FIT TRAINER
    AIR DODGE

    LANDING LAG : 12 frames ⇒ 22 frames​
    FAIR
    PROPERTIES : Foot hitbox is no longer unshieldable​

    :4yoshi: YOSHI
    DASH ATTACK

    ENDING LAG : Ending lag increased​
    DAIR
    LANDING LAG : Ending lag increased​
    NEUTRAL B
    START UP : Start-up lag increased​
    UP B
    BUGFIX : Teleggporting removed​
    DOWN B
    BUGFIX(?) : No longer slides on slopes.​

    :4zelda: ZELDA
    UTILT

    DAMAGE : 6.5% ⇒ 7.2%​
    PIVOT GRAB
    SIZE : Range reduced​

    :4zss: ZERO SUIT SAMUS
    AIR DODGE

    LANDING LAG : 15 frames ⇒ 22 frames​
    USMASH
    HITS ON : Frame 9 ⇒ Frame 11​
    PARALYZER
    ENDING LAG : Increased​
    SPREADING SHOT
    ENDING LAG : Reduced​

    :substitute:NO CHANGES FOUND SO FAR:substitute:

    :4falcon:CAPTAIN FALCON
    :4darkpit:DARK PIT
    :4dk:DONKEY KONG
    :4duckhunt:DUCK HUNT DOG
    :4fox:FOX
    :4miigun:MII GUNNER
    :4pit:PIT
    :4rob:ROB
    :4samus:SAMUS
    :4villager:VILLAGER
     
    #1 SamuraiPanda, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2014
  2. Ffamran

    Ffamran
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    Peace Walker

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    I was about to call you a liar. It's out, folks. Well, maybe in my area, but it's officially out.
     
    Mechageo likes this.
  3. Red Ryu

    Red Ryu
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    #ZardGang

    • Moderator
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    3DS FC:
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    RedRyu_Smash

    Yup it's out, lets see what changed!
     
    Aninymouse likes this.
  4. iLink

    iLink
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    Smash Champion

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    I wonder how many people knew Greninja could cancel ALL of his aerials with shadow sneak and not just dair, effectively baiting out shield grabs.

    It will be missed.
     
    #4 iLink, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
    Master Jelly and JesseMcCloud like this.
  5. Jonney

    Jonney
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    Smash Cadet

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    Is it just me or has Nosferatu's hitbox gotten bigger?
     
  6. Ffamran

    Ffamran
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    Peace Walker

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    So... What you're telling me is that Greninja was Dante all along?!
    [​IMG]
     
    TurboLink, 90007000, Manko91 and 27 others like this.
  7. KevJames

    KevJames
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    Smash Apprentice

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    Bowsercide confirmed to kill himself first before the opponent. Ganon's remains the same, killing opponent first.
     
  8. Ffamran

    Ffamran
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    Peace Walker

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    Was it because people spammed Bowercides or is it because Koopa Klaw comes out faster than Flame Choke making it easy to spam? So, if people spammed Ganoncides, would a new patch just revert both to the originals of Bowser/Ganon killing themselves first?
     
  9. KevJames

    KevJames
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    Smash Apprentice

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    Spamming Ganoncides isn't as easy or as efficient as spamming Bowsercides. Flame Choke is a huge risk to make when Ganon is off-stage, whereas Koopa Claw is a less risky option for Bowser since you can decide whether to suicide if up a stock, or rather just use it to stay on stage and gain stage control.
     
  10. Tristan_win

    Tristan_win
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    Not dead.

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    Patch out

    Sheik Bouncing fish has been nerf or mario weight has been massively improved. It use to make the kill effect appear on mario when he stood on the edge at 111% now it's 131%

    I'm going to break something, excuse me.

    edit: From the limited data I collect before, the knock back at 0% has been drop from 38 to 33.

    Confirmed, Bouncing fish nerf.

    edit2: Uair nerf, kills roughly 26% later.

    edit3: No buff to her other kill moves... although fair 'seem' to have less knock back now....strange.
     
    #10 Tristan_win, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  11. SolidSense

    SolidSense
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    Greninja up-smash seems to have TONS more endlag now. Was it always possible to punish this easily?
     
    GunBlaze, Xenado and JesseMcCloud like this.
  12. Agosta44

    Agosta44
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    Smash Ace

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    Not a damn thing changed for DK as far as I can tell.

    Awesome.
     
  13. Phoenix_Dark

    Phoenix_Dark
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    I'm pretty sure sonic's d-throw and f-throw did 6%. Now they do 7%...\o/
     
    ganondorf_22 and Reila like this.
  14. Supermodel From Paris

    Supermodel From Paris
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    outdated 10char
     
    #14 Supermodel From Paris, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  15. Spirst

    Spirst
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    Greninja's Usmash now has to have the whole animation finish before he can act.
    His shadow sneak no longer cancels aerial lag.
    Instant downwards shadow sneak is no longer possible.
    Hydro pump windbox appears to have been reduced.
    FF Uair follow ups are no longer reliable. The vacuum knockback is weakened and only on the very early parts of the multihit.

    See more here: http://smashboards.com/threads/greninja-patch-1-0-4-changes.378520/#post-18009067
     
    #15 Spirst, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  16. Locke 06

    Locke 06
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    Fanatical like a demon

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    They both do 7% in 1.0.3

    If anyone wants me to test kill %s or damage %s in 1.0.3 I can, as I kept the old version to compare with people for at least a day.
     
  17. KevJames

    KevJames
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    Holy ****. Someone check out Olimar's Fsmash because I don't remember his Pikmin going that far uness I've been doing something wrong.
     
  18. Spirst

    Spirst
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    Endlag was increased, yeah. Before, an input could be made before the animation was entirely over. As for now, you have to wait until the water swords are put away before any input can be done.
     
  19. ChikoLad

    ChikoLad
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    Luma can still attack when Rosalina is being grabbed, contrary to what was thought before.
     
  20. Tristan_win

    Tristan_win
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    Edge canceling has been removed.

    edit: for Sheik bf.

    edit2: Please prove me wrong, I rather look stupid then have this gone.
     
    #20 Tristan_win, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  21. ChikoLad

    ChikoLad
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    Luma can still attack when Rosalina is being grabbed, contrary to what we thought was the case.

    Luma's respawn timer has been extended from roughly 8 seconds to roughly 13, but this was already expected.
     
  22. Dissent

    Dissent
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    Bananaman Formerly Known As Sails

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    Diddy: No noticed changes, checked percents, somewhat checked angles and IASA's.
     
    #22 Dissent, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  23. Shaya

    Shaya
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          「chase you」 

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    As in do you mean landing on the ledge of a platform/stage with 'sliding'/momentum shifting moves no longer cancel?
     
  24. PCHU

    PCHU
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    Projectiles can now be neutralized by normals/tilts.
    If they could before, I sure as heck did not notice because Tink's sideB was too busy hitting me through my ftilt/jab.
    The hitboxes are still dumb and way too precise, but it's a great, great start for low mobility characters (a shame that they didn't just carry that property over from Brawl in the first place).

    Also, King Dedede's dthrow sends people straight up.
    As if it weren't awkward enough getting his stuff to combo.
     
  25. Dabuz

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    Rosa stuff: (Tested mostly by me, write up courtesy of Xaltis)


    Rosalina:

    Upsmash knockback decreased

    Dtilt hitbox reduced

    Nair damage got a slight nerf in percent it does.

    Grab got a cooldown increase

    Down Smash cooldown increase

    Forward Smash Slight start up Increase? (We couldn't get a 100% for sure answer on this)

    Nair knockback is decreased

    Luma:

    Gains 15 more HP (Edit: This is wrong)

    Shoots a shorter distance with fully charge Luma shot. (Which is better)

    Comes back faster when you call him back.

    Luma shot got cooldown decrease.

    Can still break grabs.

    Doesn't do anything that the Wii U help tip says about him.

    On stages with walls that go all the way down. (Yoshi's Island Brawl, and other Omegas) if Luma doesn't make it back to the stage with his 3 jumps, he will fall to his death, but on stages with these walls instead of dying, he glitches back to the middle of the stage.
     
    #25 Dabuz, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  26. ChikoLad

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    Yeeeeesssss.
     
  27. Tristan_win

    Tristan_win
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    Not dead.

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    Yes Sheik wont slide off the stage/platform anymore. Diddy still seem to work though.

    edit: yeah I notice needles seem a little off as well @#HBC | Bunzy I just couldn't put my finger on it though.

    edit2: Oh and funny enough you still don't need to VI to escape fsmash -,- I swear to god Nintendo.
    edit3: and utilt still does not combo into it's self. ~sighs~
     
    #27 Tristan_win, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  28. Dissent

    Dissent
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    Peach's turnip farm glitch is still in, instant turnip ledge canceling is out. I personally know a few Peach mains that are crying somewhere.
     
  29. Red Ryu

    Red Ryu
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    #ZardGang

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    Charizard is completely unchanged from what I can tell.
     
    GunBlaze, Tophick and Sillybananas like this.
  30. Dabuz

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    Misc stuff: Sheik needles have SLIGHTLY more cooldown, ftilt might have slightly more as well, can confirm ledge cancelling is gone along with everything else tristan mentioned.

    Diddy's side-B grab has less disjoint.

    Will post as I find more stuff.

    Edit 1: Sheik fair does 1% less damage.

    Ness dthrow does 2% less damage.

    Edit 2: Roll boost grabbing and pivot roll boost grabbing are gone.

    Robin's thoron jump refresh removed.

    Little mac's multihit jab does slightly less damage.

    Megaman's and Pikachu's frame one rush coil and thunder are both removed.

    Can someone confirm for me than landing lag item tossing is gone?
     
    #30 Dabuz, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
    GunBlaze, Shaya and Tristan_win like this.
  31. Shaya

    Shaya
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          「chase you」 

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    Closed the old thread, this'll do. Easier if we start afresh.
     
    Red Ryu likes this.
  32. Kage Me

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    Little Mac's rapid jab deals less damage now.
     
    LinkNIvy likes this.
  33. Dissent

    Dissent
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    Not for Diddy's SideB kick :4diddy:

    Indeed, second and third jab both do 1% less.
     
    #33 Dissent, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  34. Dabuz

    Dabuz
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    Diddy for best character now!
     
    #34 Dabuz, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  35. LostinpinK

    LostinpinK
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    Palutena's infinite lightweight is still in. People on reddit said that sheik could not ff uair anymore (for the dthrow uair "chaingrab"), but she still can.
     
  36. Tobi_Whatever

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    あんたバカァ~!?

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    Luv u
     
  37. Tristan_win

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    Not dead.

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    Well my character got nerf pretty hard with no buffs, ZERO feel better buffs.

    Now all I can do is sit back and laugh at the misfortune of others.... yay.

    edit: I'm not going to post anyone more in this thread, don't worry.
     
    #37 Tristan_win, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
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  38. Shaya

    Shaya
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          「chase you」 

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    @Supermodel From Paris
    Are you or Sakurai crazy? You're telling me they BUFFED zero suit straight up? bar zair recovery (which is kinda big I guess, I found it's size a bit excessive).
     
    #38 Shaya, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  39. icraq

    icraq
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    i tested this in training mode and ended up with 50hp myself, and had a friend do the same and he came up with the same.
    how sure are you about the rest?
     
  40. Supermodel From Paris

    Supermodel From Paris
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    There have been changes to custom moves as well. ZSS' custom moves were quite bad and there have been quite a few changes to them.

    ZSS:

    Paralyzer -
    - Blast Shot can now be fired before it is fully charged, but incurs normal landing lag (was way lower before )
    - Spreading Shot now deals 10% damage (up from 6%) and lasts long enough for ZSS to get a follow-up (wore off before ZSS could even move before, weird)

    Boost Kick:
    - Impact Kick now properly absorbs the target so that the final hit connects properly
    - Lateral Kick now allows ZSS full aerial movement during special fall

    Plasma Whip:
    - Whip Lash got the same buff as normal side-b: less animation time, so safer on block and more follow-ups.

    Flip Jump:
    - Low Flip travels faster across the field (?)

    I dunno what to tell you, except that ZSS was a little overrated by most of you. She's good, solid, but maybe not even top 10... probably not in fact. She's high tier but a lot of her moves just weren't working right and her shiny new fsmash was terrible.

    EDIT: Seems the change to her paralyzer was applied to all of them. You can now release it before it's finished firing. Baby paralyzer travels less distance now though.
     
    #40 Supermodel From Paris, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
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