3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Chimera]

D throw was more consistent before. Spose you can make a case that it's just as good but I prefer the old one. F air does less % now and has decreased knockback

also more moves send Gordos back. This is confirmed zzz

Where is it confirmed that moves that were incapable of sending gordos back now send gordos back? I've been able to send gordos back with a tap of the jab button, so it never took very much.

If this is proven true, it is indeed new. Moves dealing under 3% damage would not reflect the gordo.

I wasn't aware of a specific percentage. But as I said, I've been able to send Gordos back with extremely light moves (kirby's jab pressed once), so it never seemed to take much. I know it was able to go through moves like Bowser's fire breath, and such though (haven't tested in the patch yet)

1% damage nerf.

Not much difference. I realize that there is a modicum of difference though.

 

[InfinityCollision]

My patented u-tilt combo!

It involves doing a u-tilt, followed by a u-tilt, followed by 27 more u-tilts.

Thinkaman confirmed actually Sirlin.

Palutena's Up and D Tilt have a confirmed IASA Buff.
http://gfycat.com/InsignificantFrailKiwi

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww yiss.

 

[Leo Heart]

Someone was saying that f-smash is 20% faster, but it wasn't verified.

No, its exactly the same. People like to make stuff up.

 

[Lavani]

Ganondorf's utilt has more exaggerated graphics.

Don't think the hitbox or anything has changed, but at least it looks as painful as it is now!

 

[Thinkaman]

Ganondorf's utilt has more exaggerated graphics.

I think this is unchanged actually.

It is understandable that no one noticed.

 

[Judo777]

If true this must have been an old piece, or at least before patches were popular. Also I wouldnt consider many of those glitches, wavedashing included though I guess its questionable.

Since youre quoting Sirlin, he speaks against them in a very recent podcast he did you can find here:
http://www.sirlin.net/posts/podcast-sirlin-on-game-design
He uses a concept called cocaine logic, something to the extent of "cocaine is good, people want it, people pay for it so we should just sell it in a cocaine part of town". The idea being that theres something people like, but people gloss over the bad affects it has. Before making claims trying to weigh the good and bad affects of specific glitches, listen to the podcast as he goes over why glitches in general aren't good.

Yes I have and do for every element of a game I make an opinion on (hence why i don't like L canceling because the bad IMO outweighed the good). I cannot think of any bad aspects of having DACUS' in the game. For the most part all DACUS did was 2 things. One, either allow the player to charge a smash for longer for a punish (because most all characters if desired could simply run and perform the usmash uncharged in a situation where you would have time to charge a DACUS) or 2 to extend the range of an uncharged Umsash punish (like Falco off a dthrow) where it would otherwise not be possible. And this is achieved at the cost of execution (you must be able to perform the action lest you open yourself up for punishment because dash attacks are historically bad), appropriate setup (you have to be the correct distance apart for scenario 2), and complete forfeit of control (you MUST move the full distance and commit to the entire thing). I see no issues.

It was also an Usmash which perfect for balancingthe application as Usmash's typically have small hitboxes (or are slow as crap), can already be performed while running, and are usually very unsafe.

 

[Lavani]

I think this is unchanged actually.

It is understandable that no one noticed.

I'm almost entirely positive that the little fireball explosion was the only graphic it had before and I'm almost feeling stupid enough to revert back to v1.0.1 and unlock Ganondorf again to doublecheck.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Was it because people spammed Bowercides or is it because Koopa Klaw comes out faster than Flame Choke making it easy to spam? So, if people spammed Ganoncides, would a new patch just revert both to the originals of Bowser/Ganon killing themselves first?

I feel like Ganonciding should stay, since that actually requires actual skill to get someone with as long as your opponent isn't just standing at the edge and you just do it, I think in that case it is cheap. Bowserciding on the other hand was just cheap, most of the people who do it only do it when you are at one stock left,so it is even more cheap since you were not expecting it to happen.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Raziek confirmed for me that WiiFit Trainer's Nair and Uair are not different in damage. They are the exact same in both games.

 

[LancerStaff]

Anyone tested Pit?

Same, although the mechanics of multihit aerials mighta been tweaked to prevent some techs, we're not sure yet.

Are there any changes that further separate Pit from Dark Pit?

Nope, but his arrows might be more controllable and his Ftilt might combo properly.

 

[MASTERLINKX]

http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1416347652093.webm

I don't have a 60fps camera so I can't really compare the frames that well with a camera shoved in my mouth. Maybe 5-7 frames are saved on the landing lag of Shulk's Fair.

Everything else is the same for him.

 

[Terotrous]

I finally have the patch!

I can confirm that Yoshi Dash Attack recovers quite a bit slower. This likely removes some legitimate combos into UAir and makes the move much less safe to use in general. Neutral B change is very slight. I tested his kill moves and they appear to be unchanged in power. Egg stuff seems the same too.


Also, regarding Run Up Upsmash. It can definitely still be done using Up with Tap Jump off. I believe what has changed is that the window to input the A after the Up Smash input has been reduced. When I press the A early, I was able to get it like 20 times in a row. Pressing it a bit late almost always gave me dash attack. Previously it probably would have accepted both.

 

[Tagxy]

Yes I have and do for every element of a game I make an opinion on (hence why i don't like L canceling because the bad IMO outweighed the good). I cannot think of any bad aspects of having DACUS' in the game. For the most part all DACUS did was 2 things. One, either allow the player to charge a smash for longer for a punish (because most all characters if desired could simply run and perform the usmash uncharged in a situation where you would have time to charge a DACUS) or 2 to extend the range of an uncharged Umsash punish (like Falco off a dthrow) where it would otherwise not be possible. And this is achieved at the cost of execution (you must be able to perform the action lest you open yourself up for punishment because dash attacks are historically bad), appropriate setup (you have to be the correct distance apart for scenario 2), and complete forfeit of control (you MUST move the full distance and commit to the entire thing). I see no issues.

It was also an Usmash which perfect for balancingthe application as Usmash's typically have small hitboxes (or are slow as crap), can already be performed while running, and are usually very unsafe.

l-cancelling wasnt a glitch, you could make a strong argument that it was bad design.

Again this glosses over negative affects, particularly those glitches in general cause (such as issues of accessibility, misbalance, knowledge, etc. and at the very least it causes stress on elegance in game design) in order to argue for something specific. The podcast puts it best however and I dont wish to do it injustice by butchering its message here.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I think this is unchanged actually.

It is understandable that no one noticed.

I noticed utilt's ridiculous volcanic eruption before the patch. I was disappointed to find that the hitbox was only in front of Ganon.

 

[justinwing6202]

Edge canceling has been removed.

edit: for Sheik bf.

edit2: Please prove me wrong, I rather look stupid then have this gone.

what's edge canceling?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

@ Thinkaman Do we have a formula for conversion of kb (the arbitrary units I'm giving the Knockback number given in Smash 4) to actual killing %s?

 

[SonicZeroX]

I just tried edge canceling Palutena's warp and it worked, so edge canceling is definitely not universally gone.

 

[Terotrous]

what's edge canceling?

Pick Palutena. Jump and teleport towards the edge of the stage. You'll slide off, but you won't go into special fall because the act of touching the stage sort of cancels the move.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

what's edge canceling?

Cancelling an animation by grabbing a ledge.

 

[Terotrous]

I can't confirm this, but I believe you can mash out of Yoshi's neutral B earlier. Level 9 CPUs are escaping it before I can do any possible follow-up at low percents and I'm pretty sure you always used to get UpSmash. Can anyone attempt to test this side by side?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I'm nearing the end of my work day. This thread is LONG and has a lot of info. If anyone could compile videos, gyfs, or other confirmed info for me then I would love you forever.

 

[Conda]

I completely agree, but respectively we have a say in whether or not the game is actually good as a result. And it is perfectly reasonable to be upset about a bad game being made (especially when its previous games were so good).

@ Conda They can't use that argument. Then why did they allow their customers to buy an incomplete game? Essentially they lied to their customers and released an incomplete game knowing they were gonna change it? That would be like me handing in something to my boss and saying "I know its wrong, but go ahead and buy it off me anyway, then you can buy the revised version later."

Smash 4 3ds and wii u are linked. Balance in one is balance in the other. Since Wii U wasn't out yet, the only incomplete aspect of the 3ds version was final intended launch balance for the game canonically. It's 2014, this kind of stuff happens at much more extreme levels. Everyone knew that the Wii U version would come out 1.5 months later and that development was still being done on the title in that time.

 

[Ferio_Kun]

Lucario Changes:

Up-B has significantly more landing lag if you land while in dead frames.
Base moves on Lucario deal 1-2% more while in the 0-30% range.

Palutena Changes:

Up-B goes further. (you are now able to recover from the death bubble below FD by just using Up-B and not jumping)

Duck Hunt Dog Changes:

Under Review (Still testing): Hitbox for Fsmash, Usmash, and Dsmash fixed.

Can confirm the Lucario Up-B Nerf.

 

[Yikarur]

I can't confirm this, but I believe you can mash out of Yoshi's neutral B earlier. Level 9 CPUs are escaping it before I can do any possible follow-up at low percents and I'm pretty sure you always used to get UpSmash. Can anyone attempt to test this side by side?

It's the same. No change.

 

[Terotrous]

It's the same. No change.

It might just be that the AI mashes inhumanly fast. I almost never play against the AI.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

-Dthrow does 7% instead of 8%.

 

[Kofu]

Game & Watch appears to have received no changes. I heard Pikachu's Thunder might no longer auto-fill Oil Panic, but I'm unable to test that atm.

 

[Lavani]

I think this is unchanged actually.

It is understandable that no one noticed.

So I unpatched my game

and realized you don't start with enough coins to play classic on 7.0 to unlock Ganondorf

so I ran through it twice

and I can now tell you with absolute certainty

that I just wasted half an hour of my life to find out you were right.

 

[Pale Tuna]

The D-Tilt for is indeed quicker in terms of recovery, as the OP stated. Same for the U-Tilt. Not sure how helpful it will be for games. <.< Most people don't seem to use the tilts, especially the U/D-tilts.

 

[Funkermonster]

Any changes to or ?

 

[Jabejazz]

Can confirm Gordo Throw's damage threshold to reflect them has been lowered to 2%, from 3%.

Most likely put in place to allow all jabs in the game to reflect them.

Any changes to

I'm so sorry.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Testing on 2 side by side 3DS, we cannot confirm what Supermodel from Paris claims to have changed about ZSS concerning her side b and down b. We believe he may have been using ZSS at low percent as rage seems to cause her not to link these all the time on light weight characters starting at about 80+ percent.

 

[Pale Tuna]

Any changes to or ?

I read that Greninja's U-Smash has more lag as well as significantly nurfing the "wind-box" of his Hydro-Pump recovery.
As for Lucina.. She (and Marth) apparently have better follow-ups after a F/D-Throws.
Not sure how accurate those are since they are from another website. :s

 

[Funkermonster]

Can confirm Gordo Throw's damage threshold to reflect them has been lowered to 2%, from 3%.

Most likely put in place to allow all jabs in the game to reflect them.



I'm so sorry.

Uh, what?

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

I can't wait to see what gets fixed about og Samus, considering they fixed ZZS' smashes and hitboxes. I mean that shows they at least acknowledge Samus as a character, so they have to see that og Samus' moves work even less how they are supposed to than ZZS and that her hitboxes don't even match her animations... right? Right??? >.>

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yo @ SamuraiPanda can I spruce up the OP? And edit changes in too?

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Uh, what?

You don't want to know.

And it doesn't seem like Sheik is a good alternative either.

 

[Wii Fit Bae]

Any bout kirby?

 

[SapphSabre777]

Any bout kirby?

I first said he got buffs, but others are stating he is the same. I think we need to wait a little longer to see what has changed about Kirby. And sorry Asdioh for the placebo effect. >.<

 

[Darklink401]

Villager momentum glitch when he tosses an item, gets on the lloid, gets off the lloid before the item reaches the blast zones, and he travels a bit towards the item when tumblefalling is STILL in.

Not bad, not bad.