3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[micstar615]

Was eagerly interested to see if any more Zelda buffs were noted since earlier. Instead I open the thread to see that Zelda got a 0.5% buff to her Utilt instead of a 1% buff that was noted earlier. GG.

 

[Elessar]

This is the thread on the Link boards about the changes we have noticed:

http://smashboards.com/threads/patch-notes-for-1-0-4.378472/

This is a transcript of everything we have found so far. Everything that I tested was done against Mario on FD.

* Toss Canceling has been completely removed.
* There is still no proper ZAC (found by FSK).
* Hitstun can't be canceled anymore due to the removal of Toss Canceling (found by FSK).
* Link's grab has been Fixed. Before the grab range was shorter than the visual representation of the Clawshot; now it seems to be the same (my own findings).
* His grab seems to recover slightly faster after a miss (My own findings).
* Standing grab is overall faster (found by Zane the Purist).
* His dtilt seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* His dash attack seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* Gale travels further. It still connects a hit at about 3/4 distance of FD. Gale effect starts a bit over that distance (My own findings).
* Gale has been buffed and is overall faster. Faster throwing/catching animation and faster air speed once it's out (My own finding along with Zane the Purist).
* Uncharged Usmash dmg has been slightly nerfed. After 10 testings the dmg is 1st hit 4%, 2nd hit 3%, 3rd hit 11% (My own findings)
* Charged Usmash dmg has been slightly nerfed. After 10 testings the dmg is 1st hit 5%, 2nd hit 4%, 3rd hit 16% when opponent if in front of you, 14% when he's behind you (My own findings).
* Fsmash 1st hit fully charged now does 19% when hit with the tip and 9% when not hit with the tip (My own findings).
* Fsmash 1st hit now doesn't kill unless it connects with the tip hitbox (My own findings in training on a CPU with up to 999% dmg).
* Fsmash 1st hit with tipper hitbox uncharged kills at 120% and fully charged at 90% (My own findings form the middles of FD).
* Fsmash 1st & 2nd are a true combo up to 150% without any spacing required (My own findings).
* Dthrow seems to combo into bair more easily again (my own findings).
* The rocket jump or boost jump has been changed. Now instead of launching into the air it makes you get on stage standing up with no lag (my own findings). Calling this ZLedge Boost.

 

[Delzethin]

This just in! Robin can now grab the ledge from behind during Elwind!

Thanks to @Ultimastrike and @ Raziek for discovering and confirming it.

 

[Raziek]

Only change I can find it they fixed the glitch where charging Thoron to full in the air would refresh your double jump.

POSSIBLY fixed the deadzone on F-tilt where it would whiff if they were too close.

Adding to this, you can now grab the ledge backwards during Elwind.

@ SamuraiPanda

EDIT: NINJAS.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

This is the thread on the Link boards about the changes we have noticed:

http://smashboards.com/threads/patch-notes-for-1-0-4.378472/

This is a transcript of everything we have found so far. Everything that I tested was done against Mario on FD.

* Toss Canceling has been completely removed.
* There is still no proper ZAC (found by FSK).
* Hitstun can't be canceled anymore due to the removal of Toss Canceling (found by FSK).
* Link's grab has been Fixed. Before the grab range was shorter than the visual representation of the Clawshot; now it seems to be the same (my own findings).
* His grab seems to recover slightly faster after a miss (My own findings).
* Standing grab is overall faster (found by Zane the Purist).
* His dtilt seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* His dash attack seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* Gale travels further. It still connects a hit at about 3/4 distance of FD. Gale effect starts a bit over that distance (My own findings).
* Gale has been buffed and is overall faster. Faster throwing/catching animation and faster air speed once it's out (My own finding along with Zane the Purist).
* Uncharged Usmash dmg has been slightly nerfed. After 10 testings the dmg is 1st hit 4%, 2nd hit 3%, 3rd hit 11% (My own findings)
* Charged Usmash dmg has been slightly nerfed. After 10 testings the dmg is 1st hit 5%, 2nd hit 4%, 3rd hit 16% when opponent if in front of you, 14% when he's behind you (My own findings).
* Fsmash 1st hit fully charged now does 19% when hit with the tip and 9% when not hit with the tip (My own findings).
* Fsmash 1st hit now doesn't kill unless it connects with the tip hitbox (My own findings in training on a CPU with up to 999% dmg).
* Fsmash 1st hit with tipper hitbox uncharged kills at 120% and fully charged at 90% (My own findings form the middles of FD).
* Fsmash 1st & 2nd are a true combo up to 150% without any spacing required (My own findings).
* Dthrow seems to combo into bair more easily again (my own findings).
* The rocket jump or boost jump has been changed. Now instead of launching into the air it makes you get on stage standing up with no lag (my own findings). Calling this ZLedge Boost.

You are a sexy, sexy man and/or woman.

 

[Spiderfog]

Any changes to

I'm so sorry.

Wait what happened?

 

[Myran]

Olimar Changes.

• Pikmin stay on longer when attached with Pikmin Throw
• White's tick for 3.7% up from 2.7%
• Reds, Blues, and Yellows tick for 1.1% down from 1.3%
• Down throw down smash glitch making Pikmin unusable has been fixed.
• Forward smash range has been increased by about 10%.
• White and Purple forward air do 1% more.
• Back air for all colors except purple do 1% more.
• White sweet spot downsmash does 1% more.
• Pikmin Pluck cannot be ledge canceled anymore.

If anything else is found I'll make sure to update.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I'm sending you my Sun Salutation energy.

I'll add it to my spirit bomb. Need all the Ki.

 

[Conda]

At 3:06 in this video, Ness's dthrow still does 9%. It's the Wii U version. It's likely and possible that only some of these changes are in the current Wii U build, and that a final launch day patch will be going out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZQYfAB1xm4

 

[SonicZeroX]

Posting this again because it's not in the OP: Diddy Kong can no longer popgun cancel

I don't have a method of recording it, but it's easy to verify. Just attack a bobomb in training mode and try to mash B.

In 1.0.3 the gun would come out immediately as seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IxkIIG_Q0E but now it does not.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

* Toss Canceling has been completely removed.
* There is still no proper ZAC (found by FSK).
* Hitstun can't be canceled anymore due to the removal of Toss Canceling (found by FSK).
* Link's grab has been Fixed. Before the grab range was shorter than the visual representation of the Clawshot; now it seems to be the same (my own findings).
* His grab seems to recover slightly faster after a miss (My own findings).
* Standing grab is overall faster (found by Zane the Purist).
* His dtilt seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* His dash attack seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* Gale travels further. It still connects a hit at about 3/4 distance of FD. Gale effect starts a bit over that distance (My own findings).
* Gale has been buffed and is overall faster. Faster throwing/catching animation and faster air speed once it's out (My own finding along with Zane the Purist).
* Uncharged Usmash dmg has been slightly nerfed. After 10 testings the dmg is 1st hit 4%, 2nd hit 3%, 3rd hit 11% (My own findings)
* Charged Usmash dmg has been slightly nerfed. After 10 testings the dmg is 1st hit 5%, 2nd hit 4%, 3rd hit 16% when opponent if in front of you, 14% when he's behind you (My own findings).
* Fsmash 1st hit fully charged now does 19% when hit with the tip and 9% when not hit with the tip (My own findings).
* Fsmash 1st hit now doesn't kill unless it connects with the tip hitbox (My own findings in training on a CPU with up to 999% dmg).
* Fsmash 1st hit with tipper hitbox uncharged kills at 120% and fully charged at 90% (My own findings form the middles of FD).
* Fsmash 1st & 2nd are a true combo up to 150% without any spacing required (My own findings).
* Dthrow seems to combo into bair more easily again (my own findings).
* The rocket jump or boost jump has been changed. Now instead of launching into the air it makes you get on stage standing up with no lag (my own findings). Calling this ZLedge Boost.

Actually a LOT of this stuff is "seems to be" sort of stuff. We only want to add things to the OP with HARD EVIDENCE behind them with comparison numbers to previous versions to avoid any misinformation. Video/gif evidence of changes is also nice.

 

[Elessar]

You are a sexy, sexy man and/or woman.

I'm a man, but I'll take the sexy

Also, the reason for why fsmash connects now is due to a severely reduced nontipper knockback. That's why it won't will even when at 999% dmg. With right timing it remains a combo up to 340%, without timing nor spacing until 150% as I said.

Also, when standing at starting position on FD a gale will travel and push your opponent. That it max distance now and that's where the gale effect replaces the hitbox. It's considerably further than before.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

So after playing with Greninja a bit I come to realize that his nerfs... Don't really mean that much. Hydro Pump can still gimp recoveries fairly easily depending on the character, and the nerf to Up-Smash only means we can't combo it into Up-Air, which we could just do with Up-Throw if we really need it.

Overall Greninja just lost some options, but he's still a pretty damn good character.

I disagree. As a (now former) Greninja main, I feel his nerfs are not only unwarranted, but practically game-ending. His DACUS pressure is weakened, and his air game is even more risky.
He'll now be a distant secondary for me.

 

[NightmareMMZero]

Not sure if this has been posted here yet or not, but the Mii Swordfighter's Airborne Assault side+B (the chargable rolling slash) has had the problem fixed where you continue sliding after landing.

This is good news for people who are particularly partial to this move who are sick of trying to use the move for recovery, just to land and continue sliding and slip off the other side of the stage to their death.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

A wavedash button?

nope, they just need directional air dodging

AND it would revive the wavedash

 

[SonicZeroX]

Not sure if this has been posted here yet or not, but the Mii Swordfighter's Airborne Assault side+B (the chargable rolling slash) has had the problem fixed where you continue sliding after landing.

This is good news for people who are particularly partial to this move who are sick of trying to use the move for recovery, just to land and continue sliding and slip off the other side of the stage to their death.

I just tried it now and I still slid to my death

 

[Wii Fit Bae]

Ok so kirby

- Feet attack range buffed
- Up smash range buffed and significantly faster
- Up Air faster
- Dash is faster

- Nair has more ending lag
- Nair has to connect to a normal Up Tilt to combo (not with sourspotted up tilt)
- Kirbycide kills him first

 

[ChikoLad]

Olimar Changes.

• Pikmin stay on longer when attached with Pikmin Throw
• White's tick for 3.7% up from 2.7%
• Reds, Blues, and Yellows tick for 1.1% down from 1.3%
• Down throw down smash glitch making Pikmin unusable has been fixed.
• Forward smash range has been increased by about 10%.
• White and Purple forward air do 1% more.
• Back air for all colors except purple do 1% more.
• White sweet spot downsmash does 1% more.
• Pikmin Pluck cannot be ledge canceled anymore.

If anything else is found I'll make sure to update.

I figure this is relevant to you, but Rosalina can no longer use Gravitational Pull on Pikmin.

It's more of an Olimar buff, I feel, than a Rosalina nerf. Glad it happened either way.

 

[Elessar]

Actually a LOT of this stuff is "seems to be" sort of stuff. We only want to add things to the OP with HARD EVIDENCE behind them with comparison numbers to previous versions to avoid any misinformation. Video/gif evidence of changes is also nice.

I Understand, and I want to clarify more but I don't know how to compare exactly the speeds, like the gale speed or distance. Any other Link main from the boards and me can vouch for all these changes since we feel them, but I'm not sure on how to get the hard data, even more so since I just lost all my replays (as everybody else has). If you help me I'll provide them.

Also, there's video of the changes to the tether AT, the last point in my list.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ ChikoLad has confirmed that Rosalina can no longer counter Olimar's Pikmin with Gravitational Pull.

 

[Kofu]

I disagree. As a (now former) Greninja main, I feel his nerfs are not only unwarranted, but practically game-ending. His DACUS pressure is weakened, and his air game is even more risky.
He'll now be a distant secondary for me.

The only one that was unwarranted IMO was the Water Shuriken lag. There was no reason for an USmash that fast, long-ranged, and powerful to have so few drawbacks, for Shadow Sneak to cancel aerial landing lag, and for Hydro Pump to have such huge windboxes (although from what I hear they went a little overboard with the nerfing there). Water Shuriken was fine before, though.

 

[Raziek]

Actually a LOT of this stuff is "seems to be" sort of stuff. We only want to add things to the OP with HARD EVIDENCE behind them with comparison numbers to previous versions to avoid any misinformation. Video/gif evidence of changes is also nice.

Saying it again so it doesn't get missed:


Thoron Triple Jump glitch is FIXED.
Elwind can now grab the ledge backwards throughout the duration of the move.

 

[Myran]

I figure this is relevant to you, but Rosalina can no longer use Gravitational Pull on Pikmin.

It's more of an Olimar buff, I feel, than a Rosalina nerf. Glad it happened either way.

She can still use it on smashes. I'm assuming you mean purple Pikmin Throw? I hadn't tested that, and it never worked on the ones that attached I do believe.

 

[FullMoon]

I disagree. As a (now former) Greninja main, I feel his nerfs are not only unwarranted, but practically game-ending. His DACUS pressure is weakened, and his air game is even more risky.
He'll now be a distant secondary for me.

I never felt like Greninja's air game was risky at all. I think you're making his nerfs to be worse than they actually are. Up Smash is still very powerful and useful, Hydro Pump can still gimp recoveries, I really didn't feel like Water Shuriken got changed at all and his up-air... Even after the nerf I can still get the final hit to work.

It's all about adapting to the changes.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Another Rosalina change: dtilt no longer hits behind her. However, it's possible to do a dtilt by tilting the stick down and behind Rosalina, which will make Luma perform the move in the opposite direction and achieve a similar effect. (Incidentally this looks really funny in action.)

 

[Yikarur]

I have 2 3DS so everything I post is confirmed stuff

Yoshi has:
- slightly slower start-up on neutralB.
- slightly more ending lag on dash attack.
- slightly more landing lag on dair.


^ I confirm that Rosalinas dtilt doesnt hit behind her anymore

 

[LordFluffy]

This is the thread on the Link boards about the changes we have noticed:

http://smashboards.com/threads/patch-notes-for-1-0-4.378472/

This is a transcript of everything we have found so far. Everything that I tested was done against Mario on FD.

* Toss Canceling has been completely removed.
* There is still no proper ZAC (found by FSK).
* Hitstun can't be canceled anymore due to the removal of Toss Canceling (found by FSK).
* Link's grab has been Fixed. Before the grab range was shorter than the visual representation of the Clawshot; now it seems to be the same (my own findings).
* His grab seems to recover slightly faster after a miss (My own findings).
* Standing grab is overall faster (found by Zane the Purist).
* His dtilt seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* His dash attack seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* Gale travels further. It still connects a hit at about 3/4 distance of FD. Gale effect starts a bit over that distance (My own findings).
* Gale has been buffed and is overall faster. Faster throwing/catching animation and faster air speed once it's out (My own finding along with Zane the Purist).
* Uncharged Usmash dmg has been slightly nerfed. After 10 testings the dmg is 1st hit 4%, 2nd hit 3%, 3rd hit 11% (My own findings)
* Charged Usmash dmg has been slightly nerfed. After 10 testings the dmg is 1st hit 5%, 2nd hit 4%, 3rd hit 16% when opponent if in front of you, 14% when he's behind you (My own findings).
* Fsmash 1st hit fully charged now does 19% when hit with the tip and 9% when not hit with the tip (My own findings).
* Fsmash 1st hit now doesn't kill unless it connects with the tip hitbox (My own findings in training on a CPU with up to 999% dmg).
* Fsmash 1st hit with tipper hitbox uncharged kills at 120% and fully charged at 90% (My own findings form the middles of FD).
* Fsmash 1st & 2nd are a true combo up to 150% without any spacing required (My own findings).
* Dthrow seems to combo into bair more easily again (my own findings).
* The rocket jump or boost jump has been changed. Now instead of launching into the air it makes you get on stage standing up with no lag (my own findings). Calling this ZLedge Boost.

(findings based on comparion between my 1.0.4 and friend's 1.0.3)
Confirming Grab range is more accurate to the hookshot (aka longer slightly)
The grab does not appear to have shorter recovery on miss nor does the standing grab seem to be overall faster.
dash attack and D tilt do not appear faster either.
Gale does seem to travel slightly faster and farther, however cannot confirm or deny, further testing needed.
Usmash damage remains the same charged or uncharged.
Tip damage is the same from both versions
Dthrow seems to have same angel and thus same potential to combo into Bair.

These are my findings based on these notes here, probably best if more people test them out.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

On the topic of wavedashing real quick... Not really a true glitch. Just an engine physics exploit. Also, the Dev team knew about it and kept it in. But yeah, the point still stands, glitchy jank tech is not necessarily good. Personally, I like tech as an idea because it rewards dedication and whatnot. Programmed tech like DI and jump canceling us always better though, as it clear that that is the design intention an how the game should be played. But there is always exceptions on both sides of course. Personally I think Crouch Canceling in melee is stupid, as well as l canceling with the latter being the best option always. Exploitative tech like dashdancing are great movement options. But at this point I'm just rambling.

Basically, not all tech is good, not all unintentional being glitchy, and not all exploitative tech is worth removing

Smash 4 with proper dashdancing and wavedashing would be really nice, but that's another talk for another day.

Also, if anyone would like to list straight up glitch y tech in melee that would be great for my own sake. I'm just interested in what's seen as glitchy tech

 

[ChikoLad]

She can still use it on smashes. I'm assuming you mean purple Pikmin Throw? I hadn't tested that, and it never worked on the ones that attached I do believe.

I could only test it on Side B because that's pretty much the only move a Level 9 CPU Olimar would do. I can assure you that it doesn't work against that, as I just constantly used GP and they kept sticking to me.

I'll take your word on the Smash attacks though, and try it whenever I can.

 

[Forever 9]

Bowserside now kills Bowser before the opponent? I wonder how many mad Bowser fans there are, as opposed to the many happy fans as myself.

I have to say, today was a good day

 

[NairWizard]

I disagree. As a (now former) Greninja main, I feel his nerfs are not only unwarranted, but practically game-ending. His DACUS pressure is weakened, and his air game is even more risky.
He'll now be a distant secondary for me.

You mean DACUS pressure is eliminated, probably, as DACUS likely no longer exists.

 

[DiamondDust]

Saying it again so it doesn't get missed:


Thoron Triple Jump glitch is FIXED.
Elwind can now grab the ledge backwards throughout the duration of the move.

Wait, Elwind couldn't do that before. Well, all those random deaths that made me want want throw my 3DS across the room made a bit more sense now.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Saying it again so it doesn't get missed:


Thoron Triple Jump glitch is FIXED.
Elwind can now grab the ledge backwards throughout the duration of the move.

Bra, I saw it the first time. Now that multiple people are editing the OP some things get lost when saving. Like Robin.

 

[PurpleBanana]

The greninja nerfs are really killing it for me right now. Did Fsmash or F air get nerfed? I'm hitting characters who are at 100% and they're not just flying off the stage like before. I used a lot of air attacks into SS, so yeah that's gone now. The WS end lag is very apparent, like wow.

After looking at characters like ZSS, I feel like the Team For Glory icon of Greninja/MK vs D3/Charizard is kind of appropriate.

I'll probably just focus on jiggs now but christ, was all that necessary? Feels like removing the SS air cancel would be like removing the sprout attack of Villager's tree. Or removing zelda's sweet spots and just giving her some lucina style "strong hit from everywhere but no hitbox" stuff.

Yeesh.

 

[linhgame]

Saying it again so it doesn't get missed:


Thoron Triple Jump glitch is FIXED.
Elwind can now grab the ledge backwards throughout the duration of the move.

Just tried the ledge backwards, feels great. Never bothered with the Thoron Jump before.

 

[Myran]

I could only test it on Side B because that's pretty much the only move a Level 9 CPU Olimar would do. I can assure you that it doesn't work against that, as I just constantly used GP and they kept sticking to me.

I'll take your word on the Smash attacks though, and try it whenever I can.

Good to know that she can't absorb purples anymore lol. Now for Sakurai to fix his smashes.

 

[Crabman]

Just tested and sonics up smash is NOT buffed! I can try uploading a video if need be.

Makes me wonder how many other things on this list are wrong, ah Nintendo, if you would only release patch notes

 

[JesseMcCloud]

The only one that was unwarranted IMO was the Water Shuriken lag. There was no reason for an USmash that fast, long-ranged, and powerful to have so few drawbacks, for Shadow Sneak to cancel aerial landing lag, and for Hydro Pump to have such huge windboxes (although from what I hear they went a little overboard with the nerfing there). Water Shuriken was fine before, though.

THEY NERFED WATER SHURIKEN TOO?!

You mean DACUS pressure is eliminated, probably, as DACUS likely no longer exists.

I mean dashing Up-Smash. I realize that actual DACUS-ing isn't in the game.

 

[Jackson]

Has Fox changed at all?

 

[Elessar]

(findings based on comparion between my 1.0.4 and friend's 1.0.3)
Confirming Grab range is more accurate to the hookshot (aka longer slightly)
The grab does not appear to have shorter recovery on miss nor does the standing grab seem to be overall faster.
dash attack and D tilt do not appear faster either.
Gale does seem to travel slightly faster and farther, however cannot confirm or deny, further testing needed.
Usmash damage remains the same charged or uncharged.
Tip damage is the same from both versions
Dthrow seems to have same angel and thus same potential to combo into Bair.

These are my findings based on these notes here, probably best if more people test them out.

Thanks. That is weird since I tested those dmg numbers vs the info we had on the guide thread on the boards and I found them to be different.

But thanks for the confirmation.