3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[NairWizard]

Can confirm confirm that Robin and Palutena's grabs are the same speed as they always were (on whiff)? I think Palutena's feels faster going from 1.0.3. to 1.0.4., but I can't do a side-by-side comparison. It would be really cool if the endlag had been reduced on Palutena's grab.

 

[PurpleBanana]

Does the ss buff really matter? I mean, he's still eating a smash attack when he gets blocked, it just won't be charged for 2/3s of a second.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Wait does this mean Pikmin are no longer projectiles or does GP just not affect them?

 

[NairWizard]

THEY NERFED WATER SHURIKEN TOO?!

I mean dashing Up-Smash. I realize that actual DACUS-ing isn't in the game.

They nerfed Water Shuriken, Hydro Pump, Shadow Sneak canceling all aerial lag, up-smash, and up-air.

 

[Ffamran]

I just realized something. Why the hell didn't Nintendo release the patch notes themselves? It feels lazy that they're forcing people to do their own job. What if we miss (minor) unknown patches like a misplaced pixel?! WE NEED TO KNOW!

Seriously, why aren't there detailed patch notes from the developers?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Olimar Changes.

• Pikmin stay on longer when attached with Pikmin Throw
• White's tick for 3.7% up from 2.7%
• Reds, Blues, and Yellows tick for 1.1% down from 1.3%
• Down throw down smash glitch making Pikmin unusable has been fixed.
• Forward smash range has been increased by about 10%.
• White and Purple forward air do 1% more.
• Back air for all colors except purple do 1% more.
• White sweet spot downsmash does 1% more.
• Pikmin Pluck cannot be ledge canceled anymore.

If anything else is found I'll make sure to update.

Can you give specific times for Pikmin Throw attach duration? Also, what method did you use for Fsmash range increase? Is that all colors?

 

[JesseMcCloud]

They nerfed Water Shuriken, Hydro Pump, Shadow Sneak canceling all aerial lag, up-smash, and up-air.

Wow. Greninja wasn't even that good to begin with, imo. Now, well, let's just say I'm glad Pit seems untouched so far. And that Spring isn't too far off.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

I just realized something. Why the hell didn't Nintendo release the patch notes themselves? It feels lazy that they're forcing people to do their own job. What if we miss (minor) unknown patches like a misplaced pixel?! WE NEED TO KNOW!

Seriously, why aren't there detailed patch notes from the developers?

Because.

Sega does what Nintendon't.

 

[LordFluffy]

Can confirm confirm that Robin and Palutena's grabs are the same speed as they always were (on whiff)? I think Palutena's feels faster going from 1.0.3. to 1.0.4., but I can't do a side-by-side comparison. It would be really cool if the endlag had been reduced on Palutena's grab.

Faster on whiff you mean? if you can clarify i can test really quick.

 

[Kofu]

THEY NERFED WATER SHURIKEN TOO?!

I heard Water Shuriken has more ending lag on all forms of the move. I don't really use Greninja but it's sad to see a move that flexible get a nerf like that.

I mean dashing Up-Smash. I realize that actual DACUS-ing isn't in the game.

DACUS was in the game, but it seems to have been removed as of this patch. Greninja's DACUS was ridiculous, too.

 

[NairWizard]

Faster on whiff you mean? if you can clarify i can test really quick.

I mean less endlag on whiff, yes. As in, how soon you can shield right after you miss a grab. Would appreciate it, thanks.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I just realized something. Why the hell didn't Nintendo release the patch notes themselves? It feels lazy that they're forcing people to do their own job. What if we miss (minor) unknown patches like a misplaced pixel?! WE NEED TO KNOW!

Seriously, why aren't there detailed patch notes from the developers?

As a game developer, you have no idea how hard it is to make patch notes.

That said its still dumb they didn't give us any but we shouldn't really expect them.

 

[BCE]

Nothing about Fox, charizard, diddy kong and Samus until now ?

 

[Espi]

Yaaaaaaa, Metaknight Buffs

 

[NairWizard]

As a game developer, you have no idea how hard it is to make patch notes.

That said its still dumb they didn't give us any but we shouldn't really expect them.

As a game developer as well, I have to completely disagree. If you aren't documenting the programming changes that your development team is making between versions, then you're doing it wrong, imo. Nintendo definitely has the documentation. There must be some kind of commit history for code changes that can be reassembled into patch changes as well.

 

[Mariohuge]

Note: after testing out Bowser Jr., I think his dthrow damage is more of a 7.5 or close to that. Every other hit seemed to do 8 damage, from 7% to 15% to 22 to 30 and so on.

 

[Meloetta Star]

I couldn't find where this was posted about Little Mac's KO Punch (So sorry if this has been brought up or confirmed for realsies)
I have 1.0.3 still, and I'm KOing Jigglypuff with KO punch at 13% in training, Dedede and Donkey Kong at 34% (Triple D and Konkey Dong can vector out of it, im not sure if thats a thing in 1.0.4) Is the 13% Jigglypuff KO on the front page with full vectoring?

 

[DarkKiru]

I just realized something. Why the hell didn't Nintendo release the patch notes themselves? It feels lazy that they're forcing people to do their own job. What if we miss (minor) unknown patches like a misplaced pixel?! WE NEED TO KNOW!

Seriously, why aren't there detailed patch notes from the developers?

Patch notes are easier said than done, its not too big of a concern since its their first MAJOR release patch wise (don't think Nintendo has ever done a patch this big)

Also it just occurred to me, isn't there some kind of button you can hit ingame for recent information about the game, perhaps they could post patch notes there in the future (I remember this being discussed in the last smash direct)

 

[Sinister Slush]

So apparently Yoshi is unable to do slope shenanigans with DownB. So add that onto the list for I guess a mechanic that's gone, not much of a nerf but yeah.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Bra, I saw it the first time. Now that multiple people are editing the OP some things get lost when saving. Like Robin.

im sorry =P

I check it though and I edited it back in but now it's reverted back to an earlier version

I can undo though, since I had some weegee and mario stuff there too

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I couldn't find where this was posted about Little Mac's KO Punch (So sorry if this has been brought up or confirmed for realsies)
I have 1.0.3 still, and I'm KOing Jigglypuff with KO punch at 13% in training, Dedede and Donkey Kong at 34% (Triple D and Konkey Dong can vector out of it, im not sure if thats a thing in 1.0.4) Is the 13% Jigglypuff KO on the front page with full vectoring?

Oh damn thanks, I forgot to reconfirm this. I saw it somewhere (reddit?) but I made up the numbers from memory :X

 

[Pazx]

Luigi's forward smash does 2% more damage fully charged and kills 5-15% earlier

http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi-buffs-in-version-1-04.378412/

 

[Thinkaman]

As a game developer, you have no idea how hard it is to make patch notes.

That said its still dumb they didn't give us any but we shouldn't really expect them.

When me and AA did BBrawl, verifying patch notes took both of us about a full week per release.

Each BBrawl release was also smaller than this patch.


To play devil's advocate, in a perfect world (where patches are still needed), magical wizards would balance the game in the background without anyone noticing, and there would be no patch notes.

Because, honestly, why do you need patch notes?

Seriously--why do you need them?

You're not going to "adjust your playstyle", don't kid yourself.

All patch notes are from a functional standpoint is kindling for johns.


I do think patch notes are needed, because this isn't a perfect world and the pragmatic benefits outweigh the ideological costs. But, their absence in no way hurts me as a competitive player.

 

[PurpleBanana]

Do we know if Jigglypuff had any changes, or if greninja has any "buffs" besides side b?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

im sorry =P

I check it though and I edited it back in but now it's reverted back to an earlier version

I can undo though, since I had some weegee and mario stuff there too

Nono please keep going. I think we need some sort of system though because constant editing seems to make things go poof. I actually need to finish some things at work now and drive home so I'll leave the OP to you for the time being.

I also think I'll make more substantial changes instead of editing in one or two things, to reduce my total number of edits.

 

[Thinkaman]

Do we know if Jigglypuff had any changes, or if greninja has any "buffs" besides side b?

I could not detect any Jiggs changes, except the removal of her Rollout Instant Reversal bug. (I can confirm it is gone.)

 

[Myran]

Can you give specific times for Pikmin Throw attach duration? Also, what method did you use for Fsmash range increase? Is that all colors?

Fsmash range was noted by another user on the Olimar boards early on. He used BF as a way to measure distance. From there we can go in an see the change in difference. It does look to affect all colors as well. For Pikmin Throw I hadn't actually timed it previously, but looked at the difference in damage of ticks and how much damage accumulated before they fell off. These were done on a 0% Mario.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Nono please keep going. I think we need some sort of system though because constant editing seems to make things go poof. I actually need to finish some things at work now and drive home so I'll leave the OP to you for the time being.

luv yew <333

 

[Thinkaman]

Nono please keep going. I think we need some sort of system though because constant editing seems to make things go poof. I actually need to finish some things at work now and drive home so I'll leave the OP to you for the time being.

You guys should to maintain a google doc, and intermittently copy-paste it into the op. That would solve the race conditions and overwrites.

 

[Elessar]

How about the Rocket Jump glitch being fixed and instead we having a ZLedge Boost as seen on this thread?

http://smashboards.com/threads/at-zledge-boost.378499/

I think that that's an interesting game wide change since it should affect all tether users.

 

[Meloetta Star]

Oh damn thanks, I forgot to reconfirm this. I saw it somewhere (reddit?) but I made up the numbers from memory :X

No problem! I'm not in any hurry to download the new patch, so if anyone who's on 1.0.4 wants me to check certain KO % for anything in 1.0.3 for comparison, let me know!

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I just realized something. Why the hell didn't Nintendo release the patch notes themselves? It feels lazy that they're forcing people to do their own job. What if we miss (minor) unknown patches like a misplaced pixel?! WE NEED TO KNOW!

Seriously, why aren't there detailed patch notes from the developers?

1. Because was just beta son
2. It doesn't really matter. Patch Notes just save time but they're not fundamental.
3. You may as well ask why the game didn't ship with a 50 page document on the numerical values of every attack in the game with weight + Height and speed values. They don't need to.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Oh I want to help in some form so badly, but I'm still waiting the Wii U version...

 

[SamuraiPanda]

You guys should to maintain a google doc, and intermittently copy-paste it into the op. That would solve the race conditions and overwrites.

We should.

Someone should make one.

 

[DiamondDust]

Wow. Greninja wasn't even that good to begin with, imo.

What

 

[WinterShorts]

So let me guess this straight........nothing good nor bad happened to ?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Neutral A combo
Dmg: 12% -> 12%
KB: 101 -> 101

FTilt
Dmg: 8% -> 8%
KB: 92 -> 92

DTilt
Dmg: 6% -> 6%
KB: 39 -> 39

UTilt
Dmg: 5% -> 5%
KB: 98 -> 98

Dash Attack
Dmg: 9% -> 9%
KB: 104 -> 104

Raw FSmash
Dmg: 15% -> 15%
KB: 160 -> 160

Raw USmash
Dmg: 15% -> 15%
KB: 158 -> 158

Raw DSmash
Dmg: 14% -> 14%
KB: 153 -> 153

NAir
Dmg: 10% -> 10%
KB: 110 -> 110

FAir
Dmg: 12% -> 12%
KB: 112 -> 112

UAir
Dmg: 9% -> 9%
KB: 106 -> 106

BAir
Dmg: 13% -> 13%
KB: 140 -> 140

DAir
Dmg: 11% - > 11%
KB: 55 -> 55

Pummel
Dmg: 1%, 2% -> 1%, 2%

FThrow
Dmg: 7% -> 7%
KB: 103 -> 103

BThrow
Dmg: 8% -> 8%
KB: 121 -> 121

DThrow
Dmg: 6% -> 6%
KB: 112 -> 112

UThrow
Dmg: 10% -> 10%
KB: 112 -> 112

Neutral B (Copy, Spit)
Dmg: 10%, 6% -> 10%, 6%
KB: 15 -> 15

Side B (Uncharged)
Dmg: 19% -> 19%
KB: 163 -> 163

Down B
Dmg: 18% -> 18%
KB: 160 -> 160

Up B
Dmg: 12% -> 12%
KB: 67 -> 67

Here's some info for Kirby. From what I can tell, nothing was changed about him.

However, I did NOT test out things such as sourspots, starting/ending/landing lag, movement speeds, knockback angles, recovery distances, etc. so any of those could potentially be changed. This also means that the "range buffs" or "start-up times" on some of his moves that are supposedly buffed COULD be real.

From the testing I have done, along with my general knowledge and familiarity of Kirby, I don't think anything was actually changed to him overall.

Copy Abilities were slightly altered, with the different "glitches" being removed, such as Hyper Rollout and Thoron Jump Restoration. I will later be testing to see if Kirby got any differences with abilities that had their original version changed, such as Olimar's Pikmin Throw.

Has anybody's Neutral Specials been altered in any way? If so, could somebody please tell me?

 

[JesseMcCloud]

What

No, don't get me wrong, he's GOOD... but not great. There certainly hasn't been the same outcry for his nerfing like with Little Mac or Rosie.

 

[TiersAreReal]

Wow. That Bowser side B nerf. I don't understand (don't own the 3DS version). Was it like in previous games where the person with the lower percent damage had more influence over where the two of you went? I guess this makes it to where I just would never want to use it on my last stock just so I don't risk losing a game even if I think I'm too far from a ledge to go over the side of the stage.

Edit: lower percent damage, not higher

 

[NairWizard]

When me and AA did BBrawl, verifying patch notes took both of us about a full week per release.

Each BBrawl release was also smaller than this patch.


To play devil's advocate, in a perfect world (where patches are still needed), magical wizards would balance the game in the background without anyone noticing, and there would be no patch notes.

Because, honestly, why do you need patch notes?

Seriously--why do you need them?

You're not going to "adjust your playstyle", don't kid yourself.

All patch notes are from a functional standpoint is kindling for johns.


I do think patch notes are needed, because this isn't a perfect world and the pragmatic benefits outweigh the ideological costs. But, their absence in no way hurts me as a competitive player.

I don't know how your teams do game development, but whenever any programmer on our game dev team made a code change, the effect of that code change had to be documented, so that rollbacks are easy and we know what we're rolling back to. Assembling patch notes for our games takes something on the order of minutes, for changes much larger than this patch.

Patch notes are useful because they arm me with knowledge that I can use *against* characters. For instance I now know that I don't have to worry about Lucario up-bing to the stage as much as I would have to before, and I can focus my edgeguard efforts on the ledge. A Lucario in tournament could be recovering to the ledge every time, knowing the limitations of his character (that he can't recover onto the stage any more), and without patch notes I would be oblivious, always keeping an unnecessary eye on the stage in case he decides to recover there.