3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[SamuraiPanda]

I JUST CHECKED SONIC'S USMASH KB AND IT'S UNCHANGED FROM LAST PATCH

I CANT HEAR YOU SPEAK LOUDER


This was Thinksamansy-poo's finding so bring it up with him

 

[The Real Gamer]

Zard didn't need buffs and the Dragon Rush damage nerf won't affect the move's overall usefulness at all (still able to gimp Bowser offstage at 60% with it).

Zard is just fine especially now that quite a few of the "top tiers" have been taken down a notch.

 

[Elessar]

I'm about to have 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 side by side. I'll be able to test stuff super fast, including verify timing changes. I don't even know where to start. What needs doing?

Could you please confirm the following? At least what the change was if there was any (for example, the original distance of the Gale). I can't test this since I don't know anyone that still has 1.0.3.

* Gale travels further. It still connects a hit at about 3/4 distance of FD. Gale effect starts a bit over that distance (My own findings and confirmed by LordFluffy).
* Gale has been buffed and is overall faster. Faster throwing/catching animation and faster air speed once it's out (My own finding along with Zane the Pure and confirmed by LordFluffy).
* His grab seems to recover slightly faster after a miss (My own findings).
* Standing grab is overall faster (found by Zane the Purist).
* His dtilt seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* His dash attack seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* Dthrow seems to combo into bair more easily again (my own findings).

I know it's a lot, but thanks.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm on this.

Me and AA tested it like 3 times because we didn't believe it.

that doesnt mean the angle can't have been changed if we've learned anything from rosalina

wider angle = dying later but you know this alreayd

splelling

Edit: wait are you sure

cuz i tested it and it gave 78 KB on 1.0.3 and 1.0.4

test again

 

[SamuraiPanda]

@ SamuraiPanda I have compiled again the info we have along with the data and where it came from.

NERFS:
* Toss Canceling has been completely removed.
* There is still no proper ZAC (found by FSK).
* Hitstun can't be canceled anymore due to the removal of Toss Canceling (found by FSK).
* Fsmash 1st hit now doesn't kill unless it connects with the tip hitbox (My own findings in training on a CPU with up to 999% dmg).
* The rocket jump or boost jump has been changed. Now instead of launching into the air it makes you get on stage standing up with no lag (my own findings). Calling this ZLedge Boost.

BUFFS:
* Link's grab has been Fixed. Before the grab range was shorter than the visual representation of the Clawshot; now it seems to be the same (my own findings and confirmed by LordFluffy).
* Gale travels further. It still connects a hit at about 3/4 distance of FD. Gale effect starts a bit over that distance (My own findings and confirmed by LordFluffy).
* Gale has been buffed and is overall faster. Faster throwing/catching animation and faster air speed once it's out (My own finding along with Zane the Pure and confirmed by LordFluffy).
* Fsmash 1st & 2nd are a true combo up to 150% without any spacing required. Improved from before that the second smash would whiff without proper spacing and timing starting at 100% (My own findings).
* Fsmash 1st hit with tipper hitbox uncharged kills at 120% and fully charged at 90%, buffed from previous 110% (My own findings from the middle of FD on Mario).

Would like to know what these were in 1.0.3 before adding to OP

 

[KuroganeHammer]

also samurai panda i think g&w's change should be a pikachu one since it (thunder) apparently doesn't have 4 seperate hitboxes now

 

[LordFluffy]

I'm about to have 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 side by side. I'll be able to test stuff super fast, including verify timing changes. I don't even know where to start. What needs doing?

Could you please confirm the following? At least what the change was if there was any (for example, the original distance of the Gale). I can't test this since I don't know anyone that still has 1.0.3.

* Gale travels further. It still connects a hit at about 3/4 distance of FD. Gale effect starts a bit over that distance (My own findings and confirmed by LordFluffy).
* Gale has been buffed and is overall faster. Faster throwing/catching animation and faster air speed once it's out (My own finding along with Zane the Pure and confirmed by LordFluffy).
* His grab seems to recover slightly faster after a miss (My own findings).
* Standing grab is overall faster (found by Zane the Purist).
* His dtilt seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* His dash attack seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* Dthrow seems to combo into bair more easily again (my own findings).

I know it's a lot, but thanks.

Please do this if you can, i tested many of these out myself (seen below were my findings) and would like secondary confirmation

(findings based on comparion between my 1.0.4 and friend's 1.0.3)
Confirming Grab range is more accurate to the hookshot (aka longer slightly)
The grab does not appear to have shorter recovery on miss nor does the standing grab seem to be overall faster.
dash attack and D tilt do not appear faster either.
Gale does seem to travel slightly faster and farther, however cannot confirm or deny, further testing needed.
Usmash damage remains the same charged or uncharged.
Tip damage is the same from both versions
Dthrow seems to have same angel and thus same potential to combo into Bair.

These are my findings based on these notes here, probably best if more people test them out.

 

[Thinkaman]

Alright, I have 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 beside each other now.

Jesus. This is the first time I've held an XL. It's.... so much nicer. Holy crap. Good thign the Wii U version is out in 2 days, I'm ruined on the base 3DS now.

Anyway, testing Sonic and then on to the op list, then other stuff. Bear with me.

 

[31gma]

WHAT THEY REMOVED TOSS CANCELING?! FAKKU YOU SAKURAI YOU LITTLE ****.

That's really disappointing, and here I thought there was gonna be another beautiful accident with the metagame.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I JUST CHECKED SONIC'S USMASH KB AND IT'S UNCHANGED FROM LAST PATCH

I just investigated this in depth; it's my bad that I didn't realize what a screwed up move Sonic usmash is. This move has different hitboxes that work in ways I don't understand. A clean hit (all hits connect) always does 14% damage in any case, but depending on the precise position of the enemy, the knockback will shift. This is of course completely impossible to hold constant since you can't have a normal smash match against a non-moving opponent unless you own two 3ds units (and we can't test "before" tests online). Level 1 Mario's completely random movements make the knockback completely random between 75, 78, and 82 from what I've seen even if you still combo every hit of the multi-hit move into the last hit.

So my apologies for introducing this error; I didn't consider the honestly insane possibilitity that a multi-hit move like this would have a wild assortment of equal damage but slightly different knockback hitboxes. Sonic is a stupid character.

 

[Thinkaman]

I can verify the above. Namely, that Sonic is stupid.

 

[Palta King]

@ Thinkaman
I actually tried killing Sheik consistenly in training (at least 10 confirmed deaths from the top for each %), on omega battlefield from the center of the stage, with a uncharged usmash confirming all 8 hits.
On 1.03 Sheik was being killed on 124%.
On 1.04 Sheik was being killed on 107%

I didn't use Mario because of the apparent weight gain that he had. Also, sometimes I had a problem with the two launch trayectories that Usmash has, being one almost completly vertical and the other one, diagonal. Still, my results are considering the lower kill % for both cases.

I hope this helps

 

[SamuraiPanda]

also samurai panda i think g&w's change should be a pikachu one since it (thunder) apparently doesn't have 4 seperate hitboxes now

I put it under GW first because it affects him the most and because only GW was banned in doubles in some tournaments because of this.

You are right in that its technically a pika change though

 

[M@v]

Can confirm the little mac side b range nerfs; although I'd call it more than "slightly". Also, I think his air speed is slower too when he side bs as well. It feels like half the distance TOPS. Would love to get a side by side comparison for this one if we can guys.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

@ SamuraiPanda since you requested standardized kill % on Mario in the OP:

Rosalina usmash kills Mario at 135% uncharged and 94% fully charged.
Luma usmash kills Mario at 129% uncharged and 97% fully charged.

Rosalina nair (final hit) kills Mario at 210% from the middle of FD.
Luma nair (forward hit) kills Mario at 181% from the middle of FD.
Luma nair (backward hit) kills Mario at 223% from the middle of FD. Note that this still knocks Mario in the direction Luma is originally facing.

(The values may be 1% higher than they should, but the Mario dummy sometimes survived and sometimes didn't. I went with the guaranteed kill.)

Unfortunately I don't know offhand what the kill %s are for 1.0.3. @ Thinkaman if you could check them that would be wonderful.

 

[Thinkaman]

Could you please confirm the following? At least what the change was if there was any (for example, the original distance of the Gale). I can't test this since I don't know anyone that still has 1.0.3.

* Gale travels further. It still connects a hit at about 3/4 distance of FD. Gale effect starts a bit over that distance (My own findings and confirmed by LordFluffy).
* Gale has been buffed and is overall faster. Faster throwing/catching animation and faster air speed once it's out (My own finding along with Zane the Pure and confirmed by LordFluffy).
* His grab seems to recover slightly faster after a miss (My own findings).
* Standing grab is overall faster (found by Zane the Purist).
* His dtilt seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* His dash attack seems to be slightly faster (found by AthlusKnight).
* Dthrow seems to combo into bair more easily again (my own findings).

I know it's a lot, but thanks.

I just tested each of these, and found zero support for all of these. Every single one of these moves had the exact same behavior and timings on both games.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Check for any actual Ganondorf changes?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Can confirm the little mac side b range nerfs; although I'd call it more than "slightly". Also, I think his air speed is slower too when he side bs as well. It feels like half the distance TOPS. Would love to get a side by side comparison for this one if we can guys.

I'll semantic you across the face I swear

I put slightly because someone else said it. I haven't touched 1.0.4 yet...

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Can confirm the little mac side b range nerfs; although I'd call it more than "slightly". Also, I think his air speed is slower too when he side bs as well.

Our testing on this earlier in the day only seemed to suggest a change to the default special with the customs being about the same. We were texting each other distances based on omega flat zone 2's ground pattern though which may not have had perfect precision. Did you check the customs, and if so, did you see any difference?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Check for any actual Ganondorf changes?

Nair less landing lag aw snap

 

[Thinkaman]

Can confirm the little mac side b range nerfs; although I'd call it more than "slightly". Also, I think his air speed is slower too when he side bs as well. It feels like half the distance TOPS. Would love to get a side by side comparison for this one if we can guys.

I can confirm this. Again.

 

[Weeman]

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but Falco's Dair also has less start up frames, it's almost back to it's former glory.

 

[M@v]

Can someone test macs Upbs pre patch and post patch side by side? Im getting the feeling macs upb is now slightly longer ranged...want to make sure its not just me though.

 

[Thinkaman]

WFT extra air dodge landing lag confirmed.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I just investigated this in depth; it's my bad that I didn't realize what a screwed up move Sonic usmash is. This move has different hitboxes that work in ways I don't understand. A clean hit (all hits connect) always does 14% damage in any case, but depending on the precise position of the enemy, the knockback will shift. This is of course completely impossible to hold constant since you can't have a normal smash match against a non-moving opponent unless you own two 3ds units (and we can't test "before" tests online). Level 1 Mario's completely random movements make the knockback completely random between 75, 78, and 82 from what I've seen even if you still combo every hit of the multi-hit move into the last hit.

So my apologies for introducing this error; I didn't consider the honestly insane possibilitity that a multi-hit move like this would have a wild assortment of equal damage but slightly different knockback hitboxes. Sonic is a stupid character.

is fine, WE ARE ALWAYS LEARNINg Something SOMETHINgE illuminateyyy

 

[LordFluffy]

Re-tested the Gale boomerang from before, i don't recall confirming it before but i can now safely say i feel and see no change between versions.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Oh, by the way, I have 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 right next to each other, similar to Thinkaman. It's how I managed to get the Kirby info so fast. I can help too, if it's needed.

 

[Thinkaman]

Hey Red Name dudes, I'm gonna be trying to confirm stuff really really fast; can I get leniency for double posting if it happens?

Can someone test macs Upbs pre patch and post patch side by side? Im getting the feeling macs upb is now slightly longer ranged...want to make sure its not just me though.

It's the same, confirmed.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I can confirm this. Again.

air spd reduced for sure?

also some sort of measurement wpuld be nice (like fraction of fd)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Hey Red Name dudes, I'm gonna be trying to confirm stuff really really fast; can I get leniency for double posting if it happens?

go for it

 

[Thinkaman]

air spd reduced for sure?

also some sort of measurement wpuld be nice (like fraction of fd)

The move moves slower, slightly slower, and lasts the same amount of time.

New aerial SH side-b puts the tip of little mac's front foot on the outer "arrow" of FD.

The old one went to the inner "arrow".

The new one is about 90% of the old.

 

[Jupo]

Sheik's needles now have more cooldown and inflicts 9% damage instead of 11%

 

[Thinkaman]

ZSS side-b is unchanged to the best of my eyes. I cannot see any timing changes or different behavior on hit of either hitbox.

SFP WHY YOU DO DIS TO ME

 

[Aunt Jemima]

When Kirby has Falco's Copy Ability, he has lower endlag when putting the gun away, and can shoot faster than 1.0.3 Kirby's Falco.

 

[NairWizard]

I'm about to have 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 side by side. I'll be able to test stuff super fast, including verify timing changes. I don't even know where to start. What needs doing?

Robin and Palutena's grab lag please (unless that was covered and I missed it in the swarm of posts). I'm not at all sure that there's any difference or if my mind's playing tricks on me.

For future reference we should compile a list of all disconfirmed changes so that we can point to that list next time a patch hits and tell everyone to relax before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Thinkaman]

ZSS F-smash does not have improved cooldown.

 

[LordFluffy]

Robin and Palutena's grab lag please (unless that was covered and I missed it in the swarm of posts). I'm not at all sure that there's any difference or if my mind's playing tricks on me.

For future reference we should compile a list of all disconfirmed changes so that we can point to that list next time a patch hits and tell everyone to relax before jumping to conclusions.

I quoted you earlier in this deconfirming it, her whiffed grabs dashed and standing are the same

also i agree deconfirmed changes so people we can take away placebo effect (i thinks)

 

[Yikarur]

Some Ike stuff that is missing in the op:


-Ike's Fair is significantly faster, shorter duration and autocancels in his short hop
-Ending lag on dtilt and ftilt decreased.
- Higher angle on dtilt
-Back air's damages increased (13% -> 14%)
- Bair kills 11% earlier


- Nair is unchanged
- no changes to running speed etc.

 

[NairWizard]

I quoted you earlier in this deconfirming it, her whiffed grabs dashed and standing are the same

also i agree deconfirmed changes so people we can take away placebo effect (i thinks)

Sorry, must have missed it. Thanks for the find though, my mind now rests at ease.

 

[Thinkaman]

Can anyone give me a use case where ZSS f-smash has supposedly changed?

I am trying both on greninja and see zero difference.