3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Ffamran]

As a game developer, you have no idea how hard it is to make patch notes.

That said its still dumb they didn't give us any but we shouldn't really expect them.

The least they could do is mention major changes like, say, Bowser's Koopa Klaw will kill him first before the victim instead of giving out vague terms like "improving the quality of gameplay" or something. They don't even have say what's changed in full detail. So, they could just list who's been (majorly) affected. I don't really care about Luigi gaining +2% for his side smash, but I do care about hitbox changes, connection fixes, new modes, etc.

1. Because was just beta son
2. It doesn't really matter. Patch Notes just save time but they're not fundamental.
3. You may as well ask why the game didn't ship with a 50 page document on the numerical values of every attack in the game with weight + Height and speed values. They don't need to.

1. How in the world is this a beta?

2. Patch notes don't have to be extremely detailed like BF4's which was necessary considering how messed up the game was. SSB4 isn't broken, but some more detail instead of "better gameplay" and other toss outs mean nothing. How has it improved? What are the major changes? Is there a list of affected items, characters, and stages?

3. That is completely unnecessary unless you're the developer. Also, technically it does ship with it. Either you look into the game's coding or you just test everything by hand. Hell, some games do ship with it. It's called: "Looking at the menu and seeing what 'Fireball Lv. 1' does in comparison to "Frostblast Lv. 1'."

Still, would you like it if they just gave out a patch unannounced and without any info? Here's patch 2.0. Period.

 

[Thinkaman]

its only very slight though isnt it?

Very slight; I definitely saw it though.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Anything on Wario would be appreciated. He seems unchanged from my own observations, but just making sure. (Especially in terms of cooldown and start up)

What about his FSmash, actually?

 

[Conda]

1. How in the world is this a beta?

We were all told that the game was still in development on the Wii U. Since Smash 3ds and Wii U will have the same gameplay, it's obvious that this patch was coming before/at the Wii U release.

 

[M@v]

Has anyone here confirmed the dacus remvoed talk? I've seen lots of people say it, but without actual proof or not.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

NERFS:
* Toss Canceling has been completely removed.
* Hitstun can't be canceled anymore due to the removal of Toss Canceling (found by FSK).
* Fsmash 1st hit now doesn't kill unless it connects with the tip hitbox.
* The rocket jump or boost jump has been changed. Now instead of launching into the air it makes you get on stage standing up with no lag. Calling this ZLedge Boost.

BUFFS:
* Fsmash 1st & 2nd are a true combo up to 150% without any spacing required. Improved from v 1.0.3 where the second smash would whiff at 100%.
* Fsmash 1st hit with tipper hitbox uncharged kills at 120% and fully charged at 90%, buffed from previous uncharged kill at 110% in v. 1.0.3.

I'll take it!

 

[Thinkaman]

Has anyone here confirmed the dacus remvoed talk? I've seen lots of people say it, but without actual proof or not.

I can.

 

[LordFluffy]

Adding Palutena f-smash and f-air to list of possible changes, but only in terms of visual effect. Please let other change testing take priority.

Seeing no difference in visual effects on any of palutena's moves. custom specials or Normals.

 

[Ffamran]

We were all told that the game was still in development on the Wii U. Since Smash 3ds and Wii U will have the same gameplay, it's obvious that this patch was coming before/at the Wii U release.

That still doesn't mean SSB for the 3DS is a beta. A testing ground yes, but not a beta. A beta is like what BF4, Watch_Dogs, Assassin's Creed 4, and Far Cry 2 are. Those were betas if not, borderline alphas. SSB for the 3DS is just the handheld version of SSB4.

 

[Dogivet]

Just gonna throw my 2 cents after seeing a couple of things in the OP;

Multi-hitting attacks (ie: Fox/Falco f-air) will no longer cause the opponent to match the momentum of the attack, such that if you fast fall while attacking with these attacks, they will no longer match the speed of the fall to take all hits.
As an example in 1.0.3, Falco was able to drag people down with his f-air into the bottom corners of the stage with fast falling,
as of 1.0.4, the opponent will not come down as fast as the fast falling attack, and will break free.

This is also the reason for things like Meta Knight being able to spike with his forward and back air, as long as the last hit didn't connect.

 

[Conda]

A testing ground yes, but not a beta.

Fine, 'testing ground'.

Just gonna throw my 2 cents after seeing a couple of things in the OP;

Multi-hitting attacks (ie: Fox/Falco f-air) will no longer cause the opponent to match the momentum of the attack, such that if you fast fall while attacking with these attacks, they will no longer match the speed of the fall to take all hits.
As an example in 1.0.3, Falco was able to drag people down with his f-air into the bottom corners of the stage with fast falling,
as of 1.0.4, the opponent will not come down as fast as the fast falling attack, and will break free.

This is also the reason for things like Meta Knight being able to spike with his forward and back air, as long as the last hit didn't connect.

Incorrect afaik, my tests have shown the vacuum effect still exists, it's just not as strong. So if you are FFing very fast or moving quickly, the opponent may fall out of the hitbox. But if you're in one spot or drifting/falling normally, then the suction effect is strong enough to keep them in the attack.

delete, double post

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Anything on Wario would be appreciated. He seems unchanged from my own observations, but just making sure. (Especially in terms of cooldown and start up)

What about his FSmash, actually?

No change with his F-Smash.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Rosalina grab cooldown increase CONFIRMED

Rosaline f-smash startup increase DECONFIRMED

Damn you, stick to one character at a time you madman!

Also please clarify cooldown. Do you mean recovery on whiff? Recovery after throwing?

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I JUST CHECKED SONIC'S USMASH KB AND IT'S UNCHANGED FROM LAST PATCH

But seriously, I did find something of note: Pit's Down+B comes out significantly faster. Almost Reflector-quickly.

 

[Thinkaman]

Damn you, stick to one character at a time you madman!

Also please clarify cooldown. Do you mean recovery on whiff? Recovery after throwing?

I'm using cooldown to refer to recovery. Few moves have different animations or scripted behavior on-hit vs. whiff.

For grabs it exclusively means whiff.

 

[Ffamran]

Fine, 'testing ground'.

'Tis better than a Haunting Ground.

Seriously though, it's much better than waking up with only a blanket for clothing and finding yourself in a cage surrounded by torture and butcher equipment. Did I mention that everyone in the castle either wants to hug you to death, kill you, or (forcefully) have your babies?

 

[Dogivet]

Incorrect afaik, my tests have shown the vacuum effect still exists, it's just not as strong. So if you are FFing very fast or moving quickly, the opponent may fall out of the hitbox. But if you're in one spot or drifting/falling normally, then the suction effect is strong enough to keep them in the attack.

Fair enough, was only testing the extreme example after seeing the Meta Knight spike gone.

 

[M@v]

Got another one that seems to be true for Shulk, although I can't play anyone right now to test vectoring; Shulks multi hit attacks (ex. Fsmash with the 2 parts), seem to have been changed. The first hit on these moves appear to have very minimal to no knockback now; just damage. What this translates to is the first hit of these moves will not knock opponents out of the sweetspots as easily. Someone who can play another person test this and see if vectoring still allows for an easy out?

In an easy term for the patch notes:

Shulk's 2 hit moves no longer have knockback on their first hits; this prevents opponents from being knocked out of the 2nd, stronger hits.

@ SamuraiPanda

 

[Conda]

Fair enough, was only testing the extreme example after seeing the Meta Knight spike gone.

No problem. And to reiterate - I am not CERTAIN that multihits were changed, but if they HAVE, the vacuum effect is not gone. If nerfed, the nerf doesn't break them or suddenly make all multihits as crappy at keeping enemies in the hitbox as Samus's uair.

 

[Jabejazz]

@ SamuraiPanda
For D3 "- Uair does not spike when the last hit does not connect anymore"
I take it this is referring to fast falling his U air and dragging the opponents down with him? Well, if it is, then it's still in. Did it repeatedly on randoms in For Glory.

Incorrect afaik, my tests have shown the vacuum effect still exists, it's just not as strong. So if you are FFing very fast or moving quickly, the opponent may fall out of the hitbox. But if you're in one spot or drifting/falling normally, then the suction effect is strong enough to keep them in the attack.

Both of these come in contradiction to initial observations where TripleD apparently lost his spike on a canceled UAir.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Very slight; I definitely saw it though.

good to know, i actually compared them before and thought i was crayzy

can you go find me luma's hp now, 1.0.3 was 52% and I think it's way less now

 

[LordFluffy]

View attachment 30248
But seriously, I did find something of note: Pit's Down+B comes out significantly faster. Almost Reflector-quickly.

I'm seeing no difference in the time for down B to come out.

 

[theta64]

i dont understand the need to nerf little mac side b in the air. why make him more crap in his recovery. im hoping it has super armor to make up for it

 

[M@v]

Also, I just did a little more testing, the first hits have ZERO knockback now on shulks 2 hit moves, not just a little. Hitting yoshi at 200% and he doesn't budge until the 2nd hit comes out. All he does is flinch. @ Conda

 

[Captain Norris]

Anything Falcon related turn up?

 

[ZephyrZ]

i dont understand the need to nerf little mac side b in the air. why make him more crap in his recovery. im hoping it has super armor to make up for it

He was never at home in the air anyway. I don't think a nerf to his air game will really make him any less viable.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I'm seeing no difference in the time for down B to come out.

Then you haven't been paying attention.
Seriously, there were times where 100% Charge Shot at FD's halfway point would hit Pit if he engaged the move at the same time as Samus' firing.
Now, it's at least twice as fast.

 

[Thinkaman]

Sorry for delay, had to unlock ganon on this other 3DS

Ganon's lower landing lag on nair confirmed

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I can confirm that D3 can "semi-spike" off of a canceled uair. The effect is very, very subdued, however. Oftentimes they don't even hit the ground, they're just reset to neutral.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Kofu]

Sorry for delay, had to unlock ganon on this other 3DS

Ganon's lower landing lag on nair confirmed

How noticeable is this? I messed around with it in 1.0.4 and it doesn't seem appreciably better from what I can tell.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

@ SamuraiPanda since you requested standardized kill % on Mario in the OP:

Rosalina usmash kills Mario at 135% uncharged and 94% fully charged.
Luma usmash kills Mario at 129% uncharged and 97% fully charged.

Rosalina nair (final hit) kills Mario at 210% from the middle of FD.
Luma nair (forward hit) kills Mario at 181% from the middle of FD.
Luma nair (backward hit) kills Mario at 223% from the middle of FD. Note that this still knocks Mario in the direction Luma is originally facing.

(The values may be 1% higher than they should, but the Mario dummy sometimes survived and sometimes didn't. I went with the guaranteed kill.)

Unfortunately I don't know offhand what the kill %s are for 1.0.3. @ Thinkaman if you could check them that would be wonderful.

Once we have the previous patch kill %s then we can add to OP

 

[Yikarur]

Rosalina changes:
- dtilt has no hitbox on her head anymore
- Standing Grab cooldown increased
- Dsmash cooldown increased
- uncharged and slightly charged Luma shot distance decreased.
- Luma shot and Luma callback cooldown decreased.
- Nair damage (6% -> 5%, 10% -> 7%) and knockback (94->86, 125->103)
- Upsmash Knockback decreased (147->135)
- Fsmash Knockback slightly decreased (154->149)
- Luma comes back faster in general
- Luma respawn time increased (~8.9s ->~12.5s

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I just spent a lot of time very exhaustively going through Villager and comparing him to the (awesome) Villager data thread on damage/knockback that can be found at http://smashboards.com/threads/comprehensive-villager-data-edge-and-floor-attacks.368614/ . I observed the following:


-Fair far hitbox now does 4% (from 3%). Bair far hitbox now does 5% (from 3%). The near hitboxes on both are unchanged, but this does mean the far versions do more knockback (since damage affects knockback).
-Riding Lloid Rocket's high damage hitbox now does 16% (from 17%). Knockback seems unaffected. Neither custom version of side special is affected nor is the unridden rocket damage. I couldn't confirme the damage of rocket under odd circumstances (self-destruct/hitting wall) because it's really hard to test and niche.

I'm pretty sure Villager has no other damage/knockback changes. Anyone with 1.0.3 who can confirm that the Villager thread was accurate in the first place and thus that these are real changes would be appreciated.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

After testing his moves side-by-side, Kirby has absolutely no differences... in anything.

He's the same as before.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Rosalina's Dair seems slower to me, at least for the lower part of the hitbox. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[theta64]

He was never at home in the air anyway. I don't think a nerf to his air game will really make him any less viable.

It makes a big difference in recovering. little mac small change now requires more precision time recovering side ways. those frames matter especially when getting knockedback. itll be frustrating having to adjust

 

[Elessar]

I'll take it!

Thanks! I'll post more if we find more, but so far that seems to be all for us.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Fully charged Bowser f-smash does 32% in both versions.

I'm constantly getting full charge fsmash 33% in Friendlies. Are you doing tests in Training? Training has reduced percent for some reason. It's been like that since Brawl. Uncharged is weird. It does 24% and then suddenly does 25% (vs. Doctor Mario) uncharged, but mostly 24%.

 

[Ffamran]

Has anyone here confirmed the dacus remvoed talk? I've seen lots of people say it, but without actual proof or not.

Specifically who since Falco's DACUS works fine.

 

[LordFluffy]

Then you haven't been paying attention.
Seriously, there were times where 100% Charge Shot at FD's halfway point would hit Pit if he engaged the move at the same time as Samus' firing.
Now, it's at least twice as fast.

Sorry to say but i'm seeing no difference in the speed of activation, duration or recovery time of pits Down B. they are identical between 1.0.3 and 1.0.4
@ Thinkaman if you could double check this for me that'd be great. i'm sure i'm correct but its nice to have two confirming sources.