Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

*yawn* so how's life going for ZSS brawl nowadays?

 

[sasook]

How's the + side, spec?

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

haha, I dont really play either of them like that anymore, it just got boring to me, games get boring, so I moved on. I just want to see how the community's going lately. the last tourney I went to, I felt like i went because I HAD to (seeing as it was a big one) and not because I really wanted to play the game, when I got home that day, I realized I was sick of seeing brawl, hearing the music, being here and everything. so I just stopped.

just came here to see how the game's been doing lately and wondering if people still play it lol. but I guess people still play melee after 7 years so this wont be any different.

 

[Nixernator]

So I've been asking for feedback from my regular practice buddies about my Zamus. The two big ones that have popped up are my lack of skill with Zamus' items, and consistency. Now I know consistency will come with practice and tournies (this being my first tourny using ZSS), but I was wondering if there are any tips on item control, and also if I'm not confident with them is it worthwhile to throw 2 away for the tourny?

 

[Zero]

To answer your second question first, yes. It is worth throwing them away if you're not confident with them. It's much better than risking your opponent to take control of them.

It takes just as much practice to become good with items as it does to learn any facet to her game, but I'll teach you what I've come across.

• Don't just throw them at your opponent straight away. They always expect this. It will never hit, it will either be a wasted piece or be at their disposal.
• The armour pieces pack a punch, they can kill at quite low percents. So not abusing them until they're at the crucial percentages is a clever strategy.
• Try to always keep one armour piece with you, or near you. Mastering aerial attacking with an item (Z-drop + attack) is a staple and can result in uair > uair > uair > armour piece, or sexy stuff like that.
• Glide tossing up or down is a great way to either reset spacing or to advance with near impunity. Opponent heavily shielding? Glidetoss to dash grab.
• Throw down to FF nair works. Really well. It sends them up at an angle that is incredibly hard to DI and can be easily followed up by a string of uairs or even a fair if you want. I guess you could uair, but that relies on the piece actually hitting, if they shield the nair then you're in an advantageous position to pressure their shield with tilts or anything else.
• The armour pieces have lingering hitboxes while they bounce, and their intrinsic timer does not count down when they're bouncing. So try to keep them bouncing as long as possible. They're super effective zoning tools and can lead to some incredible combos. I've got some really great bouncing piece combos on replay, but I have no recording tools.

The armour piece game comes with a lot of practice and plenty of intuition. Rely on your judgement to tell you what to do, and if you're not feeling confident with them, discard them. But the armour pieces are one of the biggest niches in your game, so you shouldn't part them with lightly. Embrace them and make them part of your game, rather than a distinct function.

Nix, are you going to Rocky?

 

[sasook]

SH -> dthrow -> uair will catch them while scoring you a double hit, one from the piece, one from the uair.

 

[Nixernator]

Um I'm probably going to Rocky, I'm only really going to meet all the pros and whatnot are you going? Lol.

Also to keep a piece bouncing as an effective wall is it smarter to Dthrow the piece or Uthrow the piece. Also one of my buddies is very good at aggroing me at the start (he plays GnW) by a series of safe SH's and (P)Shields, so next question is what is the best way to stop them approaching you with your pieces/wall them out while retaining control.

Also any tactics for dealing with unfamiliar MU in a tourny setting, the guys I practice with are good (both placing top 10 last month) but I don't think I'll handle new MU well. (Like I dunno maybe space Side-B till I see their strategy etc etc)
Edit: To clarify I go to tournies regulary but am new to ZSS, I'm talking about dealing with unfamiliar MUs for my Zero Suit. Also I might get some vids up from this where do I put them for you guys to brutally pick apart?

 

[sasook]

This vid helps for tourneys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo

 

[Nefarious B]

Like Sasook said, SH dthrow uair/bair is really good. If your opponent is aerial approaching, pivot froll down GT side b is a really nice wall.

Mostly just keep the pieces bouncing or in your hand at all times. Less experienced opponents will get wrecked trying to pick up bouncing pieces.

Also, just pressure with side b and neutral b while holding a piece. Punish anytime they flinch. Like if they're on the ground and you're hitting their shield with side b, they'll either jump, in which case you do the down GT, they'll stay in shield, in which I would z drop the piece on their shield then bair, which will proly shield poke. If they spotdodge or roll, punish with the piece.

 

[noradseven]

also you can Z-drop and regrab the armor pieces and attack quite easily, but only certain moves, while moving certain ways.

b-air while moving backwards
n-air while not moving much in either direction I find this one the easiest, also a mixup you can move forward faster and delay your n-air a few frames and you get a item drop on 1 side and a n-air on the other.
f-air while going forward.
u-air is like n-air but you can move backwards less but forwards more.

P. much pretend you are peach, peach players have the best item game you can learn alot from some of the better ones.

Also yeah good luck ZSS has some weird matches in a few areas.

 

[Zero]

Um I'm probably going to Rocky, I'm only really going to meet all the pros and whatnot are you going? Lol.

Also to keep a piece bouncing as an effective wall is it smarter to Dthrow the piece or Uthrow the piece. Also one of my buddies is very good at aggroing me at the start (he plays GnW) by a series of safe SH's and (P)Shields, so next question is what is the best way to stop them approaching you with your pieces/wall them out while retaining control.

Also any tactics for dealing with unfamiliar MU in a tourny setting, the guys I practice with are good (both placing top 10 last month) but I don't think I'll handle new MU well. (Like I dunno maybe space Side-B till I see their strategy etc etc)
Edit: To clarify I go to tournies regulary but am new to ZSS, I'm talking about dealing with unfamiliar MUs for my Zero Suit. Also I might get some vids up from this where do I put them for you guys to brutally pick apart?

I should be heading to Rocky, hopefully CAO decides on a date quickly so I can book and organise stuff.

A useful walling technique is dash forward > retreating short hop -> throw item down -> land -> side b the area just in front or behind of the armour piece. Or if they're going to jump over the armour piece, full hop throw the piece and side b the area above the piece as you're coming down. Fantastic shield pressure and it'll most probably poke through the shield.

Dthrow is a more useful defensive wall, whereas uthrow can be much more useful if you take the offensive, it can take retreating opponents by surprise and quickly adjust match momentum to your side.

You can't perpetually stop someone from advancing, as your defensive often relies on retreating side b's, and the implication is that you'll eventually run out of stage to retreat to. So as they eventually approach, you'll be forced on the defensive, as you don't have an offensive ground game. OOS uair, utilt, dtilt are all effective and each has their individual merits, which you can use your judgement to decide which one to use.

Spamming side b's isn't a way to work out their playstyle, it's a way of changing their playstyle in order to actually move forward. It's a fear move, as described in SFP's guide on page 4 or 5, much like the grab and dsmash. If they can't overcome this brick wall, then that's one less thing you have to do in the match (work out their playstyle).

If you come across an unfamiliar matchup, before and during you hit the START button, quickly think of what the character can do, what you can do and how you can combat it. Always remember your advantages and try your hardest not to change your playstyle according to their will. That's the path to defeat. It lies true in every competitive activity and remains true here.

But you can avoid unneccesary pressure by heading over the the video thread and watching as many videos as you possibly can. Note funny things that you should take care of in particular matchups. Feel free to ask for help as well.

 

[A1lion835]

What are Zero Suit Samus's best stages? Worst stages? Best/worst neutrals? What stages would you pick against a kirby, and what should they pick against you?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Zero Suit Samus only has one really bad legal stage: Jungle Japes, and they will ban it. With that said, Jungle Japes wouldn't be the worst stage vs Kirby, Frigate Oprheon probably would.

ZSS' best stages are Castle Siege, Lylat System, Rainbow Cruise, Battlefield, Brinstar, Norfair, etc. Any stage that she can use to emphasize her aerial dominance. She tends to do badly on long flat stages like Final Destination or Smashville, but it depends on the opponent; against Kirby, Game and Watch, Meta Knight, Marth, or other characters without projectiles, these stages can actually be quite good.

Yoshi's Island is a stage that a lot of us like and a lot of us dislike. If you know the player's style, then you may CP Yoshi's Island on them. Personally I think it's a great stage because ZSS is not edgehoggable there ( see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0XlDVlfbNo ) and I like the platform a lot.

I also like Pirate Ship and PS1 a lot.

 

[A1lion835]

Zero Suit Samus only has one really bad legal stage: Jungle Japes, and they will ban it. With that said, Jungle Japes wouldn't be the worst stage vs Kirby, Frigate Orpheon probably would.

So we should probably expect a ban of FO, and then CP Japes (if they know the matchup)?

ZSS' best stages are Castle Siege, Lylat System, Rainbow Cruise, Battlefield, Brinstar, Norfair, etc. Any stage that she can use to emphasize her aerial dominance. She tends to do badly on long flat stages like Final Destination or Smashville, but it depends on the opponent; against Kirby, Game and Watch, Meta Knight, Marth, or other characters without projectiles, these stages can actually be quite good.

The two ones I've bolded are generally kirby CP's. D: How do you think the kirby vs zero suit fight would go on Rainbow Cruise? We have unfortunately seen how the match on brinstar goes through the link I think you posted...

Yoshi's Island is a stage that a lot of us like and a lot of us dislike. If you know the player's style, then you may CP Yoshi's Island on them. Personally I think it's a great stage because ZSS is not edgehoggable there ( see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0XlDVlfbNo ) and I like the platform a lot.

Same here for the kirbies O_o.

I also like Pirate Ship and PS1 a lot.

Is that what other ZSS think about those stages? If Pirate Ship is generally agreed to be a good level for you, we should ban it. I'm worried about you liking PS1, as it's our best neutral (if it's made one) and one of our best stages.

Thanks for the info.

Edit: Is there a stage discussion thread somewhere? If not, I'd appreciate if you could give me a few reasons for all of the stages. Those matchup summaries preferably come without me making up facts.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

So we should probably expect a ban of FO, and then CP Japes (if they know the matchup)?

Actually I don't know for sure. =/ I know a few ZSS players just ban Japes every set.

The two ones I've bolded are generally kirby CP's. D: How do you think the kirby vs zero suit fight would go on Rainbow Cruise? We have unfortunately seen how the match on brinstar goes through the link I think you posted...

Actually that might be in Kirby's favor because he has like six jumps... but again, it's hard to say without being there. ZSS can navigate the stage pretty well because of her high jumps and if you find yourself above her it isn't good, because her aerial game beats yours in general. In the ZSS matchup you wanna try to emphasize your ground game, I think, so RC probably isn't a good choice? But who knows?

Is that what other ZSS think about those stages? If Pirate Ship is generally agreed to be a good level for you, we should ban it. I'm worried about you liking PS1, as it's our best neutral (if it's made one) and one of our best stages.

I dunno how most ZSS players feel about Pirate Ship. In most regions I think it's banned. I wouldn't say I'd CP it unless I knew the opponent really hated that stage, but ZSS has no trouble navigating the stage and the platforms help. PS1 is generally considered to be a strong ZSS stage though yeah.

Edit: Is there a stage discussion thread somewhere? If not, I'd appreciate if you could give me a few reasons for all of the stages. Those matchup summaries preferably come without me making up facts.

[/QUOTE]

I started one a while back but it never got moving... I'll give you general opinions because everyone likes different stuff...

FD - Not good unless you can mid-range camp your opponent. MK, Kirby, GaW, Marth, etc are sometimes good choices for this stage to be a CP. We can also live for a very very long time here.

Battlefield - Almost always a good stage, except vs. MK and maybe a few others. We will have an absolute field day with these platforms and there is the potential for early uair kills off the top.

Lylat - Arguably ZSS' best stage, like Battlefield but doesn't affect ZSS' recovery and usually really bad for everyone elses' because the stage tilt/design doesn't matter to us much. Also the ceilings/sides make for easy kills.

Smashville - Similar to FD but a little better because of the platform, and a little worse because of the space.

Siege - Really good stage all around, maybe as good as Lylat. ZSS is very strong in all three parts in most cases and we can do walk-offs on the second section (though that doesn't matter much to Kirby, we can't do it to you).

Norfair - ZSS is really amazing here, again almost as good as Lylat. No problems recovering, we can be downright gay with the ledges. No problems killing (low ceilings+uair = yesz!). This is the CP of choice against characters with poor recovery or bad jumps etc.

Brinstar - Really good here, for really the same reasons Kirby is.

Ship - Not good, not bad. The shape of the stage can be a little annoying and I've died to the flyoff before. =/

PS1 - A good stage. I'm not sure if I'd ever CP it, but I don't fear it either.

PS2 - Good stage in some parts, really bad in others. We love the section with the air because we can really, really be gay with uair but the treadmill section is terrible. If it weren't for Japes I might ban this stage, heh.

Frigate - The right side isn't as easy to gimp us on as you'd think because of Boost Jumping and Down+B, but it's still very possible for us to die early here and a lot of ZSS players have expressed a dislike for this stage lately, but it isn't as bad as Japes at all. I would be a little afraid of Kirby here, though.

Halberd - This is a really good stage or a bad stage depending on who we're playing, against Kirby it's no problem. The low ceilings make for very, very easy uair kills on him, I would not try to take ZSS here.

Delfino - This might be your best bet for a CP. ZSS really sucks during some of the stage areas, and she can't even do walk-offs on you to make up for it

RC - Really good stage for ZSS because it forces enemies into the air, which is where we want them. At some point they have to jump above her and we will capitalize on that.

Yoshi's - It depends on the character, but in general this is not a good stage (except to me! :'( ). Kirby here probably isn't as big a deal... I don't think anyone would outright ban this stage, though.

Pictochat - Uhh... I don't know, heh.

Japes - Ugh, the tether. =/ SH+Side+Bs here get wrecked and the high ceilings are absolutely not a good thing. We have to rely on our side kills which are harder to land here (especially side b.. =/) and with good DI opponents can last a very very long time. This stage is not good at all. If Kirby is good on this stage and your opponent for whatever reason doesn't ban it (they probably will) pick it.

Did I miss anything other than Picto? :X

 

[Airgemini]

Hello!
What's her best options when it comes to momentum canceling?

 

[Zero]

Uair for super quick hitstun cancelling, but other than that, she has absolutely nothing.

I want to test wavebounced backwards side b, but I'm not too confident that will work, just have the same effect as other momentum-affecting special moves (send you into the blast zone rather than away >.<)

 

[Nefarious B]

I know that down b does help a bit after the uair. Now whether it's enough to make it worth being more easily edge hogged, that's up to you. I really only use this when I think I will absolutely die otherwise.

Just fast falling a uair really helps though because it's so fast.

 

[sasook]

Uair, and only use the flip when you absolutely need to, because the flipstool off edgehogging opponents really does come in handy.

On a side note, I JUST found out if you flipstool you can flip one more time. I feel like an idiot.

 

[A1lion835]

Thanks for the stage info. Yea, kirby's good on Japes, so you should ban it...no one goes to pictochat, lol. Sounds good from a kirby perspective, so I guess it's good.

 

[FadedImage]

Uair, and only use the flip when you absolutely need to, because the flipstool off edgehogging opponents really does come in handy.

On a side note, I JUST found out if you flipstool you can flip one more time. I feel like an idiot.

wait what, you get your down-b back if you flipstool?

 

[sasook]

Apparently yeah. I think I saw it in this really old vid where this guy just flipstools off items. I noticed he'd flipstool off the item/character, and then flip again. I was like O_O

I was able to replicate it a few times. You kinda have to flipstool a little more upwards than horizontal since there's a lag time or something.

 

[Nefarious B]

Wow did not know that at all that's good stuff. I just wish there were more projectiles we could could footstool, everything is energy

 

[sasook]

Well, nannerz, all of Link's and TL's projectiles, grenades, turnips, bike parts, springs, missiles(?), suit parts, peanuts, bacon(?), pikmin(?), waddle dees, razor leaves, gyros, and eggs isn't so bad. Dunno if I forgot any.

 

[mountain_tiger]

There's something that's been bugging me for ages. When ZSS does her up taunt, she throws her gun, catches it and says something, right? Well, what does she day? It sounds like she's either saying 'Is that all?' or 'What's going on?' Which of the two is it? Likewise, what is she saying in her down taunt? It just sounds like she's mumbling.

 

[Zero]

My favourite taunt of them all.

"Is that all?"

Down taunt is just her going "hmmm".

 

[noradseven]

pro tip just yell out random stuff when you taunt.

 

[Zero]

My favourite is "beat you, desu~"

only on wifi, I swear X_X

 

[Yankee]

pro tip just yell out random stuff when you taunt.

So true. My friend and I at one point both put our taunts to "aunt jemima." The reactions were oh so precious.

 

[ThreeSided]

My favourite taunt of them all.

"Is that all?"

Down taunt is just her going "hmmm".

I'm pretty sure the taunts are;

Up: "Is that all?"

Side: "Try me."

Down: "You're mine..."


Also, another flipjump after a flip stool? ****, that sounds really useful... I'm imagining how much easier surviving peaches turnip gimps will be now.

Neutral-Flip-stool turnip>Flip Jump>Repeat

 

[mountain_tiger]

Thanks guys. Guess I just have some really dumb hearing, then.

Speaking of taunts, I don't tend to use the ones that are set; I like to use moves as taunts. And that applies to all the characters I play, not just ZSS. Pseudo-taunts I really like are:

- Flip Jumping across the stage

- SH Dair

- Up B or UTilt Spam

 

[ph00tbag]

My favourite taunt of them all.

"Is that all?"

Down taunt is just her going "hmmm".

Fer rillz. Alesia Glidewell needs to learn how to enunciate.

 

[FadedImage]

Also, another flipjump after a flip stool? ****, that sounds really useful... I'm imagining how much easier surviving peaches turnip gimps will be now.

hrm, I don't know where sassy got this info, but it's just not true, you do not get your flipjump back after flipstooling something.

sorry. ):

 

[ThreeSided]

That's no fun. =(

Oh well.

 

[Zero]

I managed to replicate it once out of about 10 minutes of trying. It seems possible, but amazingly hard.

i 'unno

 

[sasook]

hrm, I don't know where sassy got this info, but it's just not true, you do not get your flipjump back after flipstooling something.

sorry. ):

Watch at like, 0:53ish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59M4hCN3wBQ

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Her down taunt says "You're Mine," not "Hmmm."

 

[ThreeSided]

Watch at like, 0:53ish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59M4hCN3wBQ

And it is proven! Interesting stuff.

 

[FadedImage]

And it is proven! Interesting stuff.

Actually, the only reason that happens is because the flipstool animation brings ZSS to the ground for a spliiiit second.

basically, you have to flipstool someone INCREDIBLY close to the ground. It'll reset your flipstool, your second jump, and your tether count, because you're actually touching the ground. Your opponent or the item must be GROUNDED. or at least, close enough to the ground that you can flipstool while practically touching the ground. I think the only thing this would be really useful for is grenades.. maybe.

you absolutely cannot buffer the jump and have this work, so it's pretty hard to pull off.

also, I'm really effing surprised that guy did it on accident, I just spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how the **** he did it, lol.

 

[sasook]

Faded, from 0:54-0:57, he's not anywhere near the ground. Unless you mean, the object you're flipstooling off of, has to be grounded? Because then yeah, Zelda was on the ground.