DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
Ok, let's end this conversation. As you can clearly see from the video, the ZSS did NOT flipstool that Zelda. It was a normal footstool, which DOES happen to refresh your flip jump.
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Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers
- Thread starter phanna
- Start date
But normal footstools don't give ZSS her flip animation. She gets that in the vid.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
Ok, watching it again I notice that I thought it was a regular footstool because of how slow she was going. Carry on with the argument!
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
I don't think it has anything to do with the ground.
Try using b-sticking, that sometimes causes weirdness with specials.
Try using b-sticking, that sometimes causes weirdness with specials.
I've been able to infinitely replicate this guys. The timing is incredibly tight, however it works on any angle of the flip.
I believe that the jump must be executed in a miniscule frame gap just before the flipstool period is finished. So in other words, just before you return to the air neutral state. Generally, you land on the ground just before you return to the air neutral state, so I am convinced that this tricks the game into thinking you've landed, yet you initiate the flipstool, explaining why you get your second jump and flip jump back.
I have no recording device, but if you guys can't seem to replicate it, I'll try and borrow one from somewhere.
I believe that the jump must be executed in a miniscule frame gap just before the flipstool period is finished. So in other words, just before you return to the air neutral state. Generally, you land on the ground just before you return to the air neutral state, so I am convinced that this tricks the game into thinking you've landed, yet you initiate the flipstool, explaining why you get your second jump and flip jump back.
I have no recording device, but if you guys can't seem to replicate it, I'll try and borrow one from somewhere.
FadedImage
Smash Journeyman
no no no no no.
I tested this for like 30 minutes straight. Trust me, I know what I'm doing.
Yeah Zero, I thought it was the end of the animation at first too, but it has nothing to do with the flipjump animation because you can do it from below the stage and it still works.
It's doing the flipstool LAAAATE. And yes, in that video he did it incredibly close to the ground in consideration to the fact that he's jumping off someone's HEAD. If he had buffered the flipstool he wouldn't have even gotten close to intersecting with Zelda's model.
It has to do with how close to the ground you are when you perform the flipstool, hence, it's not possible to do on Snake, (he's too tall, the range for footstool is too high). And much easier to do on Pikachu, (since he's almost always close to the ground). However, no matter what, it cannot be done buffered, I did buffered flipstool off of grenades and it still didn't work.
I tested this for like 30 minutes straight. Trust me, I know what I'm doing.
Yeah Zero, I thought it was the end of the animation at first too, but it has nothing to do with the flipjump animation because you can do it from below the stage and it still works.
It's doing the flipstool LAAAATE. And yes, in that video he did it incredibly close to the ground in consideration to the fact that he's jumping off someone's HEAD. If he had buffered the flipstool he wouldn't have even gotten close to intersecting with Zelda's model.
It has to do with how close to the ground you are when you perform the flipstool, hence, it's not possible to do on Snake, (he's too tall, the range for footstool is too high). And much easier to do on Pikachu, (since he's almost always close to the ground). However, no matter what, it cannot be done buffered, I did buffered flipstool off of grenades and it still didn't work.
ThreeSided
Smash Ace
Another interesting footstoo mechanic I just noticed... If you do the neutral flip stool (the one where you just go up slightly and don't go sideways), and then DI a dirrecgtion, you actually get a fair amount of movement in that direction anyways. It's like an intermediate footstool length. I like this because there have been a few times that I've wanted to put pressure my opponent on the edge after flipstool recovering, but couldn't because I flip stooled too far away. It's also interesting because it drops you down at a fair speed within Bair range, which might be good for lolkillz on people who didn't know you could do that, eg a one time thing.
Also, is it just me, or does the flipstool have a significantly larger hitbox size than a normal footstool? And if so, does this make flipstooling viable as an decent edgeguarding tool ?
Also, is it just me, or does the flipstool have a significantly larger hitbox size than a normal footstool? And if so, does this make flipstooling viable as an decent edgeguarding tool ?
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
It's actually the one that movesy ou far to the left/right. You only move depending on the direction you hold when you get this one.
It's hitbox is much better than a normal one, but it wouldn't be good to edgeguard with. If a character is in the middle of ANY animation other than jump, when you footstool/flipstool that character they do not move.
ThreeSided
Smash Ace
I don't understand what you mean by this.
lil cj
Smash Lord
I know side smash is...useless and should never be used
but it must have a purpose...spacing or edge guarding maybe??
but it must have a purpose...spacing or edge guarding maybe??
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Here's my suggestion. Try using fsmash in every case that you would use side b normally. Once you realize how vastly inferior the former is, then you will understand why side b is better in just about every possible situation.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Thre is no flipstool that sends you a little high, and doesn't move you. There's one that sends you very high up, and there's one that gives you a lot of horizontal movement, depending on which direction you're holding of course. You can switch your direction anytime during this flipstool. (Probably the other one too, but I get it much less often.)
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
Hey guys, can one of you give me a brief explanation of the ZSS vs Peach match-up and a number? The other Peach players think it's 50:50, but I feel like it's definitely in ZSS' advantage. What do you guys think?(Just a quick description will do)
Oh, and...
Oh, and...
Unlike forward B, FSmash hits on both sides. Isn't that worth something? And FSmash starts up 4 frames faster... Sure, it's still crap, but it's not worse than side B in every possible way.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
I mean sure you could also say that fsmash has higher priority, and can trip.
Really, hitting behind you is a pretty useless feature when we're comparing spacing tools though. You'd have to be most utterly worthless, aweful spacer that the game has every seen, to have them getting behind you while you're trying to space with a move as long as side b. Just aim with the tip and it really should be a non issue.
The 4 frames of startup are more than negated by the fact that you can use side b while retreating a SH, while with fsmash you're grounded for the entire 2 second duration (or w/e it is).
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
FSmash isn't a spacing tool; rather, it's good for punishing people who roll a lot. And if your opponent doesn't know how to DI it kills at like 130%, which isn't brilliant but it's half-decent.
(It's still a terrible move, but it isn't completely useless)
(It's still a terrible move, but it isn't completely useless)
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
There aren't any rolls that outrange side b.
If they're rolling behind you, utilt is infinitely better for covering both your sides. If you learn to predict it, pivot dsmash has the same start up and 1000 times better payoff.
See no one's saying fsmash doesn't have a few, very situational uses. The thing is, in those situations, you have better moves to accomplish the same thing. Always.
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
I can see what you mean. But there's also... oh, screw it. Chances are there's nothing FSmash can do that another move can't do better.
On the plus side, it makes a brilliant taunt.
On the plus side, it makes a brilliant taunt.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNG5d9RHCgo&fmt=18
OK, so question: WTF happens at 2:04?
My room mate theorizes that Lucas' rope snake increases his hurtbox size to that of a small planet, but the move hadn't even really come out yet. His rope snake isn't disjointed, which means that if that is the case, we could punish failed grabs pretty hard on the ground if he misses...
OK, so question: WTF happens at 2:04?
My room mate theorizes that Lucas' rope snake increases his hurtbox size to that of a small planet, but the move hadn't even really come out yet. His rope snake isn't disjointed, which means that if that is the case, we could punish failed grabs pretty hard on the ground if he misses...
noradseven
Smash Lord
the move came out, and his air rope snake is horribly disjointed and his ground one is fairly bad as well, and yeah if lucas miss's a grab he is p. screwed not as much as we are but he will get punished.
The flipstool that sends you very high up can be replicated by pressing x/y and flipstooling at the same time, whereas the horizontal flipstool obviously doesn't include your x/y button press.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Really? I figured out through testing that the high one is replicated when the opponent is doing any attack... o.o
Are you ****ting me?
I swore it happened when I jumped at the same time. Oh well.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Maybe it's both... That'd be helpful.Are you ****ting me?
I swore it happened when I jumped at the same time. Oh well.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
The infinite on wario doesn't quite seem to work.
When I try to regrab or downsmash he can just jump out.
When I try to regrab or downsmash he can just jump out.
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
Wow, you actually managed to grab Wario with ZSS? I'm impressed...
More to the point, you have buffer the DSmash during the last 10 frames of your grab release lag. You see, when you air release Wario, he suffers 50 frames of lag, while you suffer 30. DSmash just so happens to come out on frame 20, so if you buffer the DSmash it should hit before he can jump away. Once you've done that, run past him and quickly pivot grab. If you did it right, you should have grabbed him while he's still stunned.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I tried this, and he is still able to jump out of it.
It's just that he's too high when I grab, he's just under her
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
They can bike out anyway, just regrab.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
He's still too high.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Respectfully, you are probably making a mistake. There is a 4? frame advantage and the grab range is pretty big, big enough to hit him. It is impossible to tell without seeing what you're doing though.
Ik ben nieuwsgierig. Waar leeft jij?
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Just try it yourself, get a friend to DI away and up (i dont think this was tested with the release, can be wrong though) and spam jump.
He'll be too high, height has no place in frame advantage.
Ik woon in oost nederland, en jij dan?
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Ik woon in Florida... Mijn familie leeft in Amsterdam. Ik leer Nederlands.
Anyhoo, I'll give it a shot. What do you mean "tested with the release?"
Anyhoo, I'll give it a shot. What do you mean "tested with the release?"
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Ah cool.
I mean that I tested it with the air release. I just can't regrab him as he's too high, he just spams jumps and gets out before I regrab.
No homebrew/any hack programs.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I have a question:
Can I just tell you how awesome Zamus is? I honestly think she and lucario should go up in potential and the tier list for sure, she certainly has a wicked uair (among other things).
Cool beans.
Can I just tell you how awesome Zamus is? I honestly think she and lucario should go up in potential and the tier list for sure, she certainly has a wicked uair (among other things).
Cool beans.
If they buffer a bike they can get out of it regardless of your timing. My suggestion is not to attempt the infinite, it's too much effort for nothing if the Wario has knowledge of the matchup. Instead, hit the Wario with any aerial of your choosing. excluding Dair. My favourite is Fair below 120% for damage racking, and Bair above for the killing blow.
Grabbing Wario isn't THAT hard, honestly. run away from a dair + pivot grab.
edit: oops double post, don't kill me mods
Snakeee
Smash Master
Actually, I'm pretty sure that he can only bike out of the D-smash but not if you just go for the grab. It takes FOREVER and stalls the match though so I don't even bother with it because its soooo boring -_-
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I'll just follow up with an aerial, I tell you guys the infinite doesn't work.
This, and if you pummel they can just force a ground release as well. Pro mashers will never be air release infinited for any damage.
It's sooo boring, isn't it? ;_;
Nixernator
Smash Ace
So how does Nair stack up against Fair/Uair/Side-B in range in front of ZSS. Also if you're trying to keep Fair fresh could you use Nair in most situations you'd use Fair but as a spacer rather than an aggresive move. Also if you're using Nair as a spacer is it worth it or is Side-B/other moves better overall?
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
Nair's range is incredibly weird. It goes at a 30 degree angle diagonally down-right in front of her, and 60 degrees diagonally up-left behind her. Its range is pretty good overall, though, but it's not as good as Fair in that respect, and Side B completely outdoes it in terms of forwards range. The thing is that Side B is significantly slower, and this sort of balances it out. Side B is easier to punish as well, but Nair's weird angle again kind of ruins some of its potential. All in all, Side B is better, but make sure to refresh it later.
And also, Nair and Fair aren't interchangeable in the slightest. Nair is for comboing and as a ooS option. Fair is for pure damage and also as a kill move. If Fair gets stale, you can either refresh it with jabs and pummels, or use Bair instead.