Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[noradseven]

Outside of the guaranteed aireal stuff doing the grab release combos stuff is mostly just a waste of time, unless that is your plan to drain the clock and win by stock in which case go for it.

Not to be rude, but I already said that....

Oops sorry about that I think my eyes skipped a line it happens sometimes, I hate it when I am reading books *grrrr.

 

[Nefarious B]

DA -> utilt is amazing, great damage racker. I forget how much but it's a lot for just 2 moves.

It does 18 damage (7 then 11)

Warpstatus and I were talking about this, and I later talked with sfp about it: If you get a dsmash and are not in KO range, there isn't much reason to use fair after the second dsmash. DA to utilt does more damage and has less of a chance of you missing (fair sometimes can be difficult to combo both hits). Utilt also sends them at a better angle to setup our juggle traps. ***more on this at the end of the post***

Also, fair is not even guaranteed at low percents after 2 dsmashes, because they pop out more quickly at those percents, and therefor you don't have enough time to SH fair. DA to utilt is your best option here as well.

Really, unless your opponent is in kill range, or unless you really want to knock them out far away from you, don't use fair out of dsmash.

***SFP pointed out that at low percents opponents hit by utilt are often close enough that the ending lag of utilt becomes problematic. Here's how this situation usually has turned out for me.

I utilt. They see that they are still close to me, and usually attempt a dair (or nair if applicable). I shield, then utilt them again.

They've learned and this time they will most likely AD and attempt to DI away and land. You can wait to punish the AD with uair, wait for them to land then grab them, or use super mindgames and empty SH into a grab.

They can always jump out of the utilt, even though most people don't do this. If they do, you're in an even better position, because now that they've used their second jump their options are even more limited. They can either land on stage, where you can grab them out of their land, try and attack a ZSS from above (we all know how this one goes heheh), or they can go for the edge, in which case you are now at an even bigger advantage as their options are severely limited on the ledge against us.

You are in a great position in this case, because 90% of opponents that I've seen act the same way. You are in perfect control when you're close enough to threaten but not close enough for them to hit you; after that all it takes is a little prediction and knowing your opponent's options as well as your own.

Wow I didn't think this would be such a long post. Let me know what you think.

 

[Hyrulian_Jinx]

Also get used to relying less on d-smash it becomes less good the more your oppenents get used to it, because it takes 1/3 of a second to come out.

So.. should I not count on it much at all in tournament play?

The only person I really play is infinity over the wifi, and 1) he's really good and 2) he's really used to my playing style, so I'm not sure how much is me not being able to kill and how much is him being good at the game >....>

But thanks ^_____^

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It's not that dsmash never hits, it does and it is a very good move, but it's a punisher. You wouldn't use it for anything else. The better you get at the game the less you'll use it for anything but spacing and punishing anyway.

 

[Nixernator]

Um so how do you buffer Fair and Bair? I've been trying and I can't get two Bair's in one SH like we saw in that vid (can't remember name or anything). Is there a could hand position or button setup for this or just quick fingers?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Just jump and hit bair or fair really fast, heh. It's easier with the control stick and A button, to Cstick you'd have to claw it or have tap jump on.

 

[noradseven]

Just jump and hit bair or fair really fast, heh. It's easier with the control stick and A button, to Cstick you'd have to claw it or have tap jump on.

or roll from X to A really fast, I mean its not hard.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

That's what I was saying, just jump with X/Y (I use Y) and then controlstick and A

 

[Nefarious B]

It's not easy though, it's very tight timing and I find myself full hopping sometimes when I try and slide my fingers that way.

I just had a thought though. Since I have R set to attack because it makes DACUS very easy, I can just SH with my thumb and bair with my index.

 

[Hyrulian_Jinx]

. Since I have R set to attack because it makes DACUS very easy,

Can zero suit dacus? (or if that's a stupid question) is it useful?

 

[momochuu]

Hey, I play ZSS now. I don't main her, just wanna second her or whatever. How's the GW vs. ZSS matchup?

 

[mountain_tiger]

Can zero suit dacus? (or if that's a stupid question) is it useful?

Technically, everyone in the game can DACUS, but only a few characters actually get any beenfit from it. IIRC, ZSS is not one of them. Fortunately she has a good hyphen USmash.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS is probably GaW's worst match-up. 65:35 at least.

 

[momochuu]

Awesome. Thank you.

 

[FadedImage]

using c-stick to buffer on sh's is tough. Sometimes if you're holding c-stick you'll just jump in that direction... bummer.

also, dash attack u-tilt out of d-smash is pretty good.

 

[Nefarious B]

Technically, everyone in the game can DACUS, but only a few characters actually get any beenfit from it. IIRC, ZSS is not one of them. Fortunately she has a good hyphen USmash.

Yeah you can see her move a bit unlike some people, but it's not really worth using, especially since our usmash isn't too amazing.

 

[Nixernator]

ZSS is probably GaW's worst match-up. 65:35 at least.

Wut, I would've said 60:40. And Snake and Marth are easily worse for GnW. In fact I swear the GnW boars say its 55:45 to ZSS (but what do they know anyway Lol).

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

They say it's even as of like a year ago. However: The Game and Watch boards also say she's easily gimped because of her tether and that uair is her best kill move, among other silly things.

As for the ratio, she shuts his options down in pretty much every conceivable way. He's got no mid-range spacing tools and is hurt badly by side-b. His aerial game, which is his strongest point is shut down pretty hard by ZSS' stronger/longer aerial game. ZSS can also pressure his shield in ways she usually can't and in ways he isn't used to. Also, historically, GaW's best players haven't usually (ever?) beaten ZSS' best players. His only real strength is his killing power and all that means is that if ZSS makes a mistake she dies early. What else is new?

ZSS is at least as bad for him if not worse than Snake or Marth. If you want video examples, Dazwa has like 12-15 OBM vs. Dazwa videos up from recent tourneys of which OBM wins 3 games total, or something. I really need to update the video thread.

 

[Nixernator]

Yeah I know its bad, my practice partner is a GnW, I've played the MU enough to know what its like. But what I'm saying is that it might be 65:35, which I doubt, but Marth and Snake do better against GnW (ok maybe not Snake). Marth's Side-B goes through (thats right through) all of GnW's moves, and at 4frames? Its not gonna get beaten by much, and he also completely outranges GnW with... well with his everything.
Snake also wrecks GnW, grenades make his everything not safe, and Ftilt outspaces/outspeeds most of his moves. Also Snake is a B*tch to kill and should be killing GnW early at his worst side (Straight up).
Having played all 3 of these MU's a fair amount IMO ZSS is not worse than Marth and Snake to GnW.
Its still a counter, maybe not as hard as you're impying.
ZSS only out spaces with Side-B (slow), Dsmash (Lol its classic when you beat Bair with it), and Uair (which isn't completely disjointed so a mispace leads you to getting hit), his weapons are omnomnom against most of ZSS physical attacks. GnW also can pressure her shield well, spacing his moves just right, and with her horrible grab, means that she can't Utilt/Grab/Jab/Uair/Nair (not sure I think he's too short to get hit by this anyway) OoS. And lastly he can bucket break on ZSS best killing ways (sides) and is nigh ungimpable if the GnW knows the MU.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Like I said, there are somewhere between twelve and fifteen Dazwa vs. OBM videos up on Dazwa's YouTube account. Watch them, the picture it paints is not pretty, heh.

Also, weren't you a Peach main?

 

[Nixernator]

Lol no I used to main Sonic. And have used ZSS for 2 months or so as a main, and about 4 months just mucking around. I play my GnW friend 2 or 3 times a week and know the MU like the back of my hand. I'm not saying its in GnW favour (Lol), but am saying that its not GnW's worst MU. I 2nd Snake and used to 2nd Marth and both do way better against GnW. And I've seen most of the recent Dazwa/OBM matches Lol.
Side note: I hate peach Lol.
Edit: Lol its cool. Different opinions make debate possible =D. I still stand by 60:40.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

My practice partner was also a GaW before he moved back west and I gotta disagree. I don't think it matters who "his worst" is, I was just illustrating to KawaiiBunny that it isn't good for GaW. I do stand by 65:35 though.

Edit: Lol, anyone who goes on IRC knows how I feel about Peach.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Until I read the post again, I thought that SFP had said it was OUR worst match-up at 35:65. Honestly, I wouldn't know. I have yet to play any decent G&W's.

Now here's what I don't understand. If ZSS has an advantage over half the top tiers, and does decent against all of the rest except for Falco, how is she only 15th on the tier list? With matchups like that you'd think she'd be 9th or something LOL.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Until I read the post again, I thought that SFP had said it was OUR worst match-up at 35:65. Honestly, I wouldn't know. I have yet to play any decent G&W's.

Now here's what I don't understand. If ZSS has an advantage over half the top tiers, and does decent against all of the rest except for Falco, how is she only 15th on the tier list? With matchups like that you'd think she'd be 9th or something LOL.

The problem is Falco. There are a lot of Falco players and Falco is a very strong character. The other problem is that ZSS' match-ups have very little to do with how good or bad the character actually is. We get ganked by Falco, beat King Dedede, go roughly even with MK and Snake... and even with Yoshi? And Samus? And Ike? And several players think we get beaten by Ness?

There's no good place to put a character like that on a tier list, so until we step it up and get some results, she'll be B tier and maybe low A tier if my whining in Tactical has meant anything. Personally (and I know at least a few of the guys around here agree) I think she's somewhere between 7-10th in the game, but only because of convenient match-ups, not because she's a really gay/cheap/lame character. For instance, she's probably safer than Marth in the current metagame but not because she's a better character. Marth is probably a better character, but that MK match-up hurts a lot, way more than our Falco match-up.

For the record, we don't have advantages on over half... we have advantages over just under half.

 

[mountain_tiger]

So how badly do we get beaten by Falco? I always assumed it was around 40:60, which, though bad, wouldn't be unwinnable for us.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Falco is bad, anywhere between 35:65 and 30:70, probably the former.

 

[sasook]

There's the matchups, and sometimes the SBR can just be a little silly.

I know a Mario main who was telling me that Mario mains had really been working hard and getting some good tourney results. They all expected to rise to the bottom of mid tier.

I can't tell you how ticked they were when they saw Mario went DOWN, of all things.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yeah the Mario thing is confusing to me, since Mario is only marginally worse than Luigi, heh.

 

[noradseven]

So how badly do we get beaten by Falco? I always assumed it was around 40:60, which, though bad, wouldn't be unwinnable for us.

Falco is stage dependent, this is how it runs down on the 4 neutrals. Trust me I got p. good exp in this match.

BF, its even or maybe slightly in one of our favors.
Yoshi's , 6:4 falco
Smashville 7:3 falco,
FD, whelp your ****ed, its like 8-9:1-2 (its **** unwinable) *ban this stage

We kinda own falco on CP like both no fair and rainbow are so much in our favor its crazy, brinstar is in our favor a bit too, but not by a ton.

Falcos CP(jungle) I personally don't think is as bad as FD its still like 7-8:2-3 though his favor, but still you kinda screwed.

Basically ban final D and pray you don't get smashville.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Another question: What buffs did ZSS get in Brawl+? Really, I'd be happy as long as they buff damaeg and knockback on FSmash, and also make Dair have less landing lag or more damage.

 

[noradseven]

Another question: What buffs did ZSS get in Brawl+? Really, I'd be happy as long as they buff damaeg and knockback on FSmash, and also make Dair have less landing lag or more damage.

none that I can think of, but the brawl+ engine is for lots of combos and hitstun, so for ZSS p. much everything combos into other stuff like n-air, combos into more n-air, dash attack like always combos and you don't even need to buffer, jab is safe on block. Overall ph00t would know more I really don't like brawl+



Plus we had this discussion before the only thing we really wanted buffed was jab to being safe, this was for BBrawl.

 

[PepsiMista]

i recently played this mario and i have to say, mario (if played extremely good) can be a problem for us.

 

[Terra~]

I has a question!

How do you properly buffer ZSS' grab? Basically how do you perform a good F-Throw CG

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I has a question!

How do you properly buffer ZSS' grab? Basically how do you perform a good F-Throw CG

You tap forward, and tap forward again (to buffer a dash) and grab asap.

After a while you get a tap tap grab rhythm down, which should help.

 

[Terra~]

Basically you tap forward while you're throwing? Like :
Grab - F-Throw - Tap Forward - Grab etc.?

 

[GwJ]

Other people need you!

DarkWarCloud has opened up the Training Grounds. What this is is a place for new players to learn who plays what characters all in a simple thread so that they can contact said person to "teach" them the basics. As of right now, we only have a handful of "teachers" for a few characters and we need more! This is where you come in. Anyone who is skilled with your characters (any character) and has the free time to teach someone how to either: Teach the basics of the game in general and/or teach specific character(s), go in the thread and either post or PM DarkWarCloud with your information (Format is in the thread) where you may possibly be contacted by someone who wants to learn. The future of smash lies in your hands.

On the other hand, if you wish to learn, go to the thread also!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241698

 

[Nixernator]

So does Down-B work as a momentum canceller after a FF Uair? Was using it and it seemed too but I'm not sure.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So does Down-B work as a momentum canceller after a FF Uair? Was using it and it seemed too but I'm not sure.

Yup, Snakeee has said this a while ago iirc.

Watch out with it though cause flip jump is pretty useful in getting back to the stage

 

[smashkng]

Can Zamus infinite Squirtle in a way similar to Yoshi infiniting Wario? If so, does she have a finisher?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Can Zamus infinite Squirtle in a way similar to Yoshi infiniting Wario? If so, does she have a finisher?

Yes, she can.

No, she hasn't for as far as I know, sideB might work but I don't know.

I think your best bet is fthrow at 300% (which they might survive depending on the stage) I know that uthrow kills at 400% on mid-heavies though, maybe you could work something out with the TO about that