Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[SpongeBathBill]

Downsmash, footstool, dair, repeat.

It sounds weird until you do it. Basically you ahve to dair ASAP and because of rob's weird footstool animation, you land on the ground with no lag and can immediately dsmash again.

I recommend pivoting after dsmash.

Hmm, I see. I'll hop to it...so to speak.

Thank you very much!

 

[sasook]

You can use downb too, instead of dair. I find it easier, but it's personal preference.

 

[Kewkky]

You can use downb too, instead of dair. I find it easier, but it's personal preference.

I prefer dair, because I already either have my thumb on the A button, or on the c-stick, ready for a quick dsmash, no need to move my finger from B to A, which means less thinking while doing it (machinating my movements helps me do them without fear of making mistakes).

 

[ThreeSided]

I just use the C-stick for both the Dair and the Dsmash. Then I have tap jump on, so when I land the Dsmash, I use the Y button for the first jump, tap-jump for the second jump while I bring my right thumb down to the C-stick.

 

[Nefarious B]

i think most ZSSs don't have tap jump though, it messes up your boost jump sometimes and makes utilt harder to use.

 

[noradseven]

i think most ZSSs don't have tap jump though, it messes up your boost jump sometimes and makes utilt harder to use.

Yeah I have i turned off.

 

[ThreeSided]

I've been thinking about having it turned off to prevent me from messing up my aerial game... Like accidently DJing while trying to do my Uair. But then I can just use C-stick for that.

 

[sasook]

Tap jump = no cake combo for you.

 

[lil cj]

Cake combo??
Sorry Im still new to the Zamus boards lol

 

[DeliciousCake]

Cake combo??
Sorry Im still new to the Zamus boards lol

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7409356&postcount=1071

 

[lil cj]

Thanks Cake

 

[kuenzel]

Tap jump = no cake combo for you.

That, and its hard to uair without getting rid you your second jump if tap-jump is on (unless you use the c-stick).

That being said, how many of you c-stick arials? I've started to do it when I momentum-cancel by uairing with the c-stick so I can fast fall at the earliest possible moment. That and for SHFF uairs out of stun into a four hit combo!!!

Anyone use JUST the c-stick? Is it advantageous for ZSS?

 

[noradseven]

That, and its hard to uair without getting rid you your second jump if tap-jump is on (unless you use the c-stick).

That being said, how many of you c-stick arials? I've started to do it when I momentum-cancel by uairing with the c-stick so I can fast fall at the earliest possible moment. That and for SHFF uairs out of stun into a four hit combo!!!

Anyone use JUST the c-stick? Is it advantageous for ZSS?

I abuse c-stick for b-air, and u-air, but not f-air that much.

 

[Nefarious B]

There's no reason you have to be soley cstick or a button. I definitely use both depending on the situation.

As soon as I'm hit off stage I'm smashing up on the cstick to momentum cancel and DI, and I use it to space bairs, but other than that I use the a button, since without tap jump it's hard to do all cstick.

 

[FadedImage]

the only time I ever use the A button for aerials is shorthop buffered bairs (can't buffer with c-stick) and neutral air. d:

 

[Nefarious B]

What about rising uair? That's hella useful imo.

 

[Bitter Romantic]

Question:
I fail at recovering with Zero Suit Samus, but I know that she can do it remarkably well :O
So a few hypothetical situations here:

Situation 1:
................................m================
................................m.\_________
........z.......................
........z..........................
You're at a distance where boost jumping [that's the up-b+jump, yes?] won't get you over the ledge, and the opponent is smartly getting on and off to maximize the invincibility frames so that they'll be safe when you get near to attack. Boost jumping to down-b isn't guaranteed to get you on the ledge; how do you recover? Or is it a 'you may not be able to' situation?

Situation 2:
................................m================
................................m.\_________
........................z.......
........................z........
From here with no second jump? Is spamming up-b when their invinc. frames run out the only thing I can do?


or is it by the time I get to those positions, I'm screwed because I shouldn't be in there in the first place?

Basically, if the ledge were the point of origin, I can't seem to recover when I reach quadrant III if I'm too far from the ledge

 

[ThreeSided]

Question:
I fail at recovering with Zero Suit Samus, but I know that she can do it remarkably well :O
So a few hypothetical situations here:

Situation 1:
................................m================
................................m.\_________
........z.......................
........z..........................
You're at a distance where boost jumping [that's the up-b+jump, yes?] won't get you over the ledge, and the opponent is smartly getting on and off to maximize the invincibility frames so that they'll be safe when you get near to attack. Boost jumping to down-b isn't guaranteed to get you on the ledge; how do you recover? Or is it a 'you may not be able to' situation?

Situation 2:
................................m================
................................m.\_________
........................z.......
........................z........
From here with no second jump? Is spamming up-b when their invinc. frames run out the only thing I can do?


or is it by the time I get to those positions, I'm screwed because I shouldn't be in there in the first place?

Basically, if the ledge were the point of origin, I can't seem to recover when I reach quadrant III if I'm too far from the ledge

Keep in mind that you never want to purposefully recover low. You have much fewer recovery options. Recovering low bellow the stage should be a last resort. Try using side-b to tether further up.

If your opponent is on the edge and you can't make it on the edge with boost jumping + flip jump, you have a few options. If they're just on the edge, thinking they've gimped you, trying using the flip kick to spike them. :3 They tend not to expect that, and it's kind of funny. But it requires some funky DI to be able to tether after that, and if they're jumping on and off like you said, it could be difficult. The safer and more reliable option? Flip stool. It seems that you aren't aware that you can actually footstool of your opponent while flipping. Invincibility frames or not, you will jump off the head of your edgeguarding opponent. Just hold jump while in the flip and press the control stick in the direction of the stage. You'll get a huge horizontal boost. Also remember that the footstool range is a lot more than it looks: You'll think you're too far from your opponent for the flipstool to catch, but it does anyway.

 

[Bitter Romantic]

I do know of the flipstool; I press the jump button when I'm above their head during the flip, though :/
I'll try holding down jump and test the range/recovery with it :O

Thank you :3

 

[noradseven]

Another tactic especially on FD, cause it results in an instant spike, and useful if you are just out of range with down B, is do down B a bit early, and do over B right after it ends for the close hit over B straight into a stage spike on FD, it can often be worth it but it is more risky.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I have some nooby questions about ZSS:

1) How effective is jab cancelling with ZSS? Since people say that the opponent can powershield the last hit, and I figure if it's effective then that'd help a lot with stale moves.

2) What are some good uses for Nair? It seems good, but I don't think I'm using it to its full potential...

3) Sometimes when I do Fair at high percents I get both hits to connect; sometimes I don't. How do you connect with both kicks?

4) What uses does FSmash have?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I have some nooby questions about ZSS:

1) How effective is jab cancelling with ZSS? Since people say that the opponent can powershield the last hit, and I figure if it's effective then that'd help a lot with stale moves.

There are a few characters that can't shield the third jab. I don't remember which ones they are. Toon Link, ROB... a few others.

Anyway, the third jab isn't -that- bad. It's a really good "get out of my face" button if they fail to power shield it, and oftentimes they do. A powershield will result in a grab, though, so don't use it too much against characters that can CG you (basically try not to jabx3 Falco).

ZSS' Jab Cancel is awful and it's almost as good just to jab twice and dtilt or run away if you don't want to use the third jab. You can also jabx2, and then dodge and try to mind game a jabx3 the second time.

2) What are some good uses for Nair? It seems good, but I don't think I'm using it to its full potential...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7365616 I'm glad you asked! Nair is great but pretty situational. Don't spam it.

3) Sometimes when I do Fair at high percents I get both hits to connect; sometimes I don't. How do you connect with both kicks?

Aim well, basically. It's tricky but you get a feel for it over time. If you really want to connect both kicks, you can buffer a Fair out of a shorthop and both kicks will hit tall targets on the ground at high percents. You can also buffer it out of a short hop on stunned targets and both hits will usually connect.

4) What uses does FSmash have?

None. It is an absolutely terrible move and you should never or at least almost never use it. There are a few situations Fsmash is acceptable:

1. Your opponent lands right next to you and has a huge lag-gasm and is at high percents. Usually the first hit of side b will send them over the sweetspot so in this case fsmash can be a good idea. In normal circumstances this doesn't happen though because it means they made a mistake. A good example: 220%+ Bowser fails to land a Bair and lands right next to you.

2. You break your opponent's shield at high percents (past 160%) and side-b is stale.

3. All of your moves are stale and you desperately need a kill after a dsmash. Even then, bair is probably better. Actually, no. Bair is better. Never use fsmash after a dsmash. Ever.

That's it. Basically fsmash is a garbage move and we all scratch our heads pretty often trying to figure out why it's in the game at all. I mean the sweetspot of fsmash doesn't even benefit from a full charge. No, I'm not kidding. This is especially perplexing because the put a lot of work into fsmash; it has like 19 hitboxes that all do varying (but equally pointless) things.

 

[Nefarious B]

Another tactic especially on FD, cause it results in an instant spike, and useful if you are just out of range with down B, is do down B a bit early, and do over B right after it ends for the close hit over B straight into a stage spike on FD, it can often be worth it but it is more risky.

Similarly to this, on FD (maybe , if you're recovering low it becomes a lot harder to angle down b, since that move is mostly horizontal trajectory. A useful way to still cover some vertical is to downb off the side, which will wall jump you right onto the ledge spot. Since this takes a little time, generally your opponent's invincibility will have run out, and if you use the kick it is an automatic spike on them, since the wall hop puts you right in range to sweetspot the kick.

Unfortunately you cannot footstool if you use the wall jump, but if you knock them off you can tether up again, and this could possibly save you from an otherwise ****ty situation.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Wow, thanks Supermodel from Paris! Though I can't tell if you're being sarcastic about the FSmash or not...

Edit: Actually, re-reading it, you appear to be serious. Forget that I said anything.

 

[sasook]

If the Link DIs down, he can PS the third jab. Dunno about the other characters though.

 

[noradseven]

If the Link DIs down, he can PS the third jab. Dunno about the other characters though.

The thing is most don't so it doesn't matter, and if you are worried about a link matchup well, maybe you shouldn't be playing ZSS.

 

[Hence]

The thing is most don't so it doesn't matter, and if you are worried about a link matchup well, maybe you shouldn't be playing ZSS.

Every character in brawl can shield our third jab.

 

[noradseven]

Every character in brawl can shield our third jab.

There are a few exceptions, but if they DI down I think all of them can.

Also f-smash rules, but its really only in such specific situations, and characters and levels, that your better off just never getting in the habit of using it.

 

[Charby]

I think our grab is garbage too well, it's probably the worst in brawl...

 

[Nixernator]

Wait if you cancel the first or 2nd hit of Zamus jab into a grab will it always get them if they DI down and shield?
Also how does Nair stack up against attacking a floating peach?

 

[Zero]

Not too sure about the jab but..

Nair against a floating Peach would work amazingly well. The second hitbox (back part, see Nair negathread) would be pretty much unpunishable, I would say, due to it's awkward angle, completely outranging anything Peach can throw at us, or hit us with.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Nair does not out-prioritize her dair like I used to think, though. =/

 

[~ARES]

Sometimes while I'm ledge-camping with down+B, ZSS will perform a second down+B jump off and away from the stage. Did I accidentally hold something down?

It happens pretty rarely, but it has happened a couple times.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Sometimes while I'm ledge-camping with down+B, ZSS will perform a second down+B jump off and away from the stage. Did I accidentally hold something down?

It happens pretty rarely, but it has happened a couple times.

If down B connects with a wall while ZSS is still flashing, she will do a second jump. The ledge has a small section of wall for it to work on.

 

[noradseven]

If down B connects with a wall while ZSS is still flashing, she will do a second jump. The ledge has a small section of wall for it to work on.

Not true, you have to manually input it like a wall tap, aka hold towards the wall, sometimes though due to buffering you can accidentally wall tap if you are close though.

Just immediately release the analog back to neutral after you start that down B or flick it back.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Not true, you have to manually input it like a wall tap, aka hold towards the wall, sometimes though due to buffering you can accidentally wall tap if you are close though.

Just immediately release the analog back to neutral after you start that down B or flick it back.

Oh yeah. I forgot about that part because I always tilt the control stick diagonally down-right to make doubly sure that the down B goes towards the stage, so it would do it automatically for me.

 

[ThreeSided]

Not true, you have to manually input it like a wall tap, aka hold towards the wall, sometimes though due to buffering you can accidentally wall tap if you are close though.

Just immediately release the analog back to neutral after you start that down B or flick it back.

No! That's not true! The flip automatically does another flip when it connects with a wall. The reason that you usually catch the edge is because it's programed to catch the edge and not wall jump when encountering both options at the same time.

When you bounce off the edge, it's because you've hit the wall, but are too high up to grab the edge (only the upper part of your characters body can grab the edge), so instead of grabbing, you end up flip-wall-jumping it instead.

Try it in Yoshi's. First use the flip without DI on the lower part so you'll see that it flips off no matter what. Then do it higher to catch the edge. Then do it ever so slightly higher, so your foot touches the edge as you are just about to and it, and it should flip back off.

 

[Nefarious B]

Ares, threesided is right, if you land on the top lip of the edge you will jump off. Thankfully there's a way to stop that from happening, since when it does happen you are very open to a gimp. I believe you have to continue holding B and ZSS will continue to fall past the lip into a normal grab.

 

[ThreeSided]

Ares, threesided is right, if you land on the top lip of the edge you will jump off. Thankfully there's a way to stop that from happening, since when it does happen you are very open to a gimp. I believe you have to continue holding B and ZSS will continue to fall past the lip into a normal grab.

Never heard that one. But I do know that holding down or away prevents you from jumping off the wall. It also stops you from grabbing the edge, though.

 

[Nefarious B]

Yeah I know there is a way to stop the annoying double jump off the edge, I'm pretty sure you have to continue to hold b and you will grab it, but I might be wrong. I think we had this discussion in Snakeee's thread.