Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[FadedImage]

most of those are completely escapable. just try SDI, if not, I bet you have plenty of time to attack/roll/standup before the ground lock hit.

also, the only ones that ZSS has is the footstool->d-air stuff, everything else and ZSS will take too long to get back to the ground.

 

[ThreeSided]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235249
Do we have anything similar to this? Although, I'm still unsure if it was determined escapable. It would be easier for ZSS to set up something like this too because we can footstool out of down smash. Closest thing i can think f is the rob infinite.

We don't have a sex-kick like sheiks weak enough to just lock the bounce. In that sense, it's a no go. Otherwise, Dsmash to Dair like everyone says.... Feel free to look for something new though. ^_^

 

[Yankee]

Alright, thanks guys.
Now that i think of it, i haven't posted in a while. I lurk too much

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

How much time (in frames prefered) is spent in the whiffed grab animation?

 

[FadedImage]

well it takes 16 for the first grabbox to come out, so I'm assuming it's done at around 21-22. And our total frame count for grab is around 42. so ~20 frames. (aka, enough time to be thoroughly *****).


and since I cite my sources...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196207
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234915

 

[mountain_tiger]

Hey guys, can I ask you a quick question about ZSS' chaingrab? I know that you have to buffer a dash grab after doing the FThrow, but at what point do you have to buffer the grab in order to do it properly?

 

[Hence]

Hey guys, can I ask you a quick question about ZSS' chaingrab? I know that you have to buffer a dash grab after doing the FThrow, but at what point do you have to buffer the grab in order to do it properly?

http://smashlovers.com/brawl/?p=129

Immediately after a F-Throw there's a ten frame window to input the command for a dash grab.

 

[noradseven]

http://smashlovers.com/brawl/?p=129

Immediately after a F-Throw there's a ten frame window to input the command for a dash grab.

10 frames aka 1/6 a second aka 2 years

 

[FadedImage]

Hey guys, can I ask you a quick question about ZSS' chaingrab? I know that you have to buffer a dash grab after doing the FThrow, but at what point do you have to buffer the grab in order to do it properly?

make sure you just tap the control stick, don't hold it, you won't buffer the dash properly



also! I just found out some interesting information (at least to me):

there is a misconception about the grab pummel, many think it will only refresh one move no matter how many you do, but this is not true! The grab pummel will count as a single move IF it is done in rapid succession (while the opponent is still in hitstun aka, true combo in training). Therefore, if you just have a slight pause in between your grab pummels, you will refresh more moves!

yaaa, easier to refresh moves on grab released mks... lol

 

[Kewkky]

Is there a thread with in-depth frame data for all of ZSS's attacks? I want to start timing everything perfectly, and a little list would greatly help me with that.

If not, could someone at least help me with downB's frame data? How long a downB lasts from start to finish, which frames does the downB have invincibility frames, at which frame can we start doing the flipkick, at which frame can we start footstooling, how many frames is the flipkick out for.... That kind of in-depth data.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Hence]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178317

 

[Kewkky]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178317

Thanks much (didn't scroll down that low last time, I stopped once I saw all the dmg tables. My personal fail)! But just one quick thing I'd like to point out: I don't see the flipkick's duration in there, anyone know how long it lasts? Either exact time or frames would be ok.

 

[Nefarious B]

http://smashlovers.com/brawl/?p=129

Immediately after a F-Throw there's a ten frame window to input the command for a dash grab.

To clarify, it's actually the last 10 frames of the grab itself, and when you buffer it the next grab will execute as soon as possible

 

[Hence]

To clarify, it's actually the last 10 frames of the grab itself, and when you buffer it the next grab will execute as soon as possible

10/16ths of a second is not something I can visualize in smash. I utilize audio patterns for chaingrabs.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Does anyone know what the frame data's like for a grab release?


Say I grab and release Falco and it's a ground release. Who can move first? And can you buffer a move?

Falco (Ground):
None - Y - Y

I found this. Apparently we have a guaranteed jab on ground release. So we do have at least a 1 frame advantage. The hitbox for a dash attack comes out on 6, so I guess i just need to know if you can buffer.

 

[MrEh]

Say I grab and release Falco and it's a ground release. Who can move first? And can you buffer a move?

When any character gets a ground release, they suffer from 30 frames of lag. When any character gets a jump release, they suffer 50 frames of lag. When a character releases someone from a grab, they also suffer from 30 frames of lag.

There are 4 exceptions to these rules however.


Bowser only gets 20 frames of lag when releasing people from grabs, so ground releases give him a frame advantage of 10. Jump releases give him a frame advantage of 30.

DK only gets 20 frames of lag when he gets ground released from a grab. So if you grab DK and he breaks out with a ground release, he has a frame advantage of 10.

Ness and Lucas suffer from an extra 10 frames of lag when they are ground released. That means that every character in the game has a 10 frame advantage over Ness and Lucas when you ground release them. Bowser has a 20 frame advantage.



And you don't have a real frame advantage over Falco. The only reason why her Jab can hit Falco out of a grab release is because her jab is frame 1. Falco doesn't have any action that comes out that fast, since shielding, spot dodging, and jabbing comes out on frame 2. The only thing that comes out in one frame is a taunt. Taunts come out on frame 1.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

When any character gets a ground release, they suffer from 30 frames of lag. When any character gets a jump release, they suffer 50 frames of lag. When a character releases someone from a grab, they also suffer from 30 frames of lag.

There are 4 exceptions to these rules however.


Bowser only gets 20 frames of lag when releasing people from grabs, so ground releases give him a frame advantage of 10. Jump releases give him a frame advantage of 30.

DK only gets 20 frames of lag when he gets ground released from a grab. So if you grab DK and he breaks out with a ground release, he has a frame advantage of 10.

Ness and Lucas suffer from an extra 10 frames of lag when they are ground released. That means that every character in the game has a 10 frame advantage over Ness and Lucas when you ground release them. Bowser has a 20 frame advantage.

And you don't have a real frame advantage over Falco. The only reason why her Jab can hit Falco out of a grab release is because her jab is frame 1. Falco doesn't have any action that comes out that fast, since shielding and spot dodging comes out on frame 2. The only thing that comes out in one frame is a taunt. (taunt startups are instantaneous.)

Thanks for the info. Well there went that idea.

 

[MrEh]

Well, since she has a frame 1 jab, that usually allows her to jab most of the cast out of a grab release. That's because very few characters actually have a frame 1 move of their own to counter it. The only characters that can avoid it are...


Bowser: UpB invincibility comes out on frame 1.

Jigglypuff: Rest invincibility comes out on frame 1.

Squirtle: He has a frame 1 jab just like you.

ZSS: You can clank jabs.


I think Fox and Wolf can avoid it with their Reflectors, but idk.

 

[IxxI]

What are some uses for up smash?
Right now, I have only been using it to punish air dodges on people coming down.

Edit: Also, what's the learning curve on Zero Suit Samus' based on people who have used for quite some time. I origianlly played Snake, and I heard that Zero Suit Samus is very mindgamey. I've seen how she played and I found it really cool how she is just all over the stage, and Snake got extremely boring, so here I am.

 

[Hence]

U-Smash can act as a vertical shield or priority wall above you, beating out every D-Air in the game. It can also be useful when an opponent ledge jumps. If you know they're going to attack, and don't want to risk taking damage, U-Smash. U-Smash is also kinda useful against Wario, Jigglypuff, and Peach. Or anyone with a lot of aerial mobility that ZSS could discourage.

D-Throw to U-Smash works if you can predict their DI.

It's uses are really limited because there are better options than U-Smash is most cases.

 

[sasook]

The only thing that comes out in one frame is a taunt. Taunts come out on frame 1.

Lol, I found this too pro, for some reason. This statement's just made of win.




Also, ZSS's learning curve is hefty, to say the least, IxxI.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

Hey, is there any kind of Brawl+ forums?

Normal brawl is so boring to me now. I mean ya'll been playing it for months going to tourneys all the time and y'all dont feel nothing yet? I just had to move on to something new

Anyway, I quit for a long time and my friend made me play brawl+, IT'S SO FUN! ZSS is awsome in that game. she's just so fast if u use her right...And the best part is that all the scrub combos that people thought used to work back in the day w/o mindgames like full jab(they cant block the 3rd hit)>dash>dtilt>fair>side b.

and her fox trot is way better since it can be canceled mid-stride which makes for great mindgames.


Brawl+ is just like a new game because everyone's attacks work differently, and it's WAAAY more balenced. like a great example is charizard (u can play as just one pokemon now). he's probably top 4 imo in brawl+ since they gave him MK-like priority and all his aerials autocancel. His grab range is longer than DDD's. his fair range is probably just as long as ZSS' side b. he cant be edgeguarded because all he has to do is fair to get people off him. But it balences out (at least against ZSS) because she's way faster than him.

hmm, so I guess I just turned my question into a premotion for brawl+. oh well.

 

[NickRiddle]

Hey, is there any kind of Brawl+ forums?

Normal brawl is so boring to me now. I mean ya'll been playing it for months going to tourneys all the time and y'all dont feel nothing yet? I just had to move on to something new

Anyway, I quit for a long time and my friend made me play brawl+, IT'S SO FUN! ZSS is awsome in that game. she's just so fast if u use her right...And the best part is that all the scrub combos that people thought used to work back in the day w/o mindgames like full jab(they cant block the 3rd hit)>dash>dtilt>fair>side b.

and her fox trot is way better since it can be canceled mid-stride which makes for great mindgames.


Brawl+ is just like a new game because everyone's attacks work differently, and it's WAAAY more balenced. like a great example is charizard (u can play as just one pokemon now). he's probably top 4 imo in brawl+ since they gave him MK-like priority and all his aerials autocancel. His grab range is longer than DDD's. his fair range is probably just as long as ZSS' side b. he cant be edgeguarded because all he has to do is fair to get people off him. But it balences out (at least against ZSS) because she's way faster than him.

hmm, so I guess I just turned my question into a premotion for brawl+. oh well.

I believe the Brawl+ section is in General or Tactical discussion.

 

[Nefarious B]

general brawl discussion has the brawl plusery forum. I was wondering where you went spec, well we've been discovering some stuff since the last time I've seen you here.

 

[noradseven]

Hey, is there any kind of Brawl+ forums?

Normal brawl is so boring to me now. I mean ya'll been playing it for months going to tourneys all the time and y'all dont feel nothing yet? I just had to move on to something new

Anyway, I quit for a long time and my friend made me play brawl+, IT'S SO FUN! ZSS is awsome in that game. she's just so fast if u use her right...And the best part is that all the scrub combos that people thought used to work back in the day w/o mindgames like full jab(they cant block the 3rd hit)>dash>dtilt>fair>side b.

and her fox trot is way better since it can be canceled mid-stride which makes for great mindgames.


Brawl+ is just like a new game because everyone's attacks work differently, and it's WAAAY more balenced. like a great example is charizard (u can play as just one pokemon now). he's probably top 4 imo in brawl+ since they gave him MK-like priority and all his aerials autocancel. His grab range is longer than DDD's. his fair range is probably just as long as ZSS' side b. he cant be edgeguarded because all he has to do is fair to get people off him. But it balences out (at least against ZSS) because she's way faster than him.

hmm, so I guess I just turned my question into a premotion for brawl+. oh well.

Seriously if you like brawl+ play a combo fighter, good current picks are Guilty Gear Accent Core(Wii+PS2), coming up soon are TvC(for Wii), Melty blood:Actress Again (PS2), and Blazblue(360,PS3). There are other good ones too.

Brawl+ is following the its fair cause everything is broke as **** balancing system, well known in HnK, and FUC. While its fun for goofing off in I have always found it to be a bit silly tournment style.

If you want to get into these fighters I would suggest Shoryuken.com, or Dustloop.com

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

If one was fighting Snake what stages would you say to Ban and CP against him?

 

[Hence]

If one was fighting ZSS what stages would you say to Ban and CP against him?

Against Snake, I usually strike Battlefield and Smashville while banning Frigate or FD.

I'd take Snake to Brinstar on my CP.

 

[sasook]

You could take Snake to RC as well, in theory. I find that the learning curve on how to actually play there as ZSS is somewhat significant though. Come to think of it, I'm gonna go ask Snakeee right now.

 

[Hence]

Snake controls the ship portion of RC really well. I prefer Brinstar, but that's just me.

 

[noradseven]

Snake controls the ship portion of RC really well. I prefer Brinstar, but that's just me.

Brinstar for me as well, snake has to high of a chance of lol ganking me on the level.

But what do I care both of those levels are banned where I play.

Ban Yoshi's I always ban yoshi's, except against people like falco or something.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

well we've been discovering some stuff since the last time I've seen you here.

Like what?

 

[Nefarious B]

Like what?

Not sure if you were around to see the fthrow CG, but also we've got a dash attack lock on the entire cast, and we did some research on nair properties.

 

[sasook]

And the buffer experiments. And tether phasing or whatever.

 

[Nefarious B]

Well buffer experiments are basically what I listed before. Tether phasing is very sexy too though

 

[ph00tbag]

Brawl+ is following the its fair cause everything is broke as **** balancing system, well known in HnK, and FUC. While its fun for goofing off in I have always found it to be a bit silly tournment style.

B+ has the opportunity to be no more or less fair than Melee was. Although I'll agree that the developers are having the problem of thinking fair means making everyone better. B+ didn't need a whole great deal after hitstun was increased, and yet everyone seems to want every character buffed in some way when they don't need it.

Either way, B+'s philosophy is more that everyone should be able to really benefit from a successful hit or grab, thereby putting more balance between offense and defense, where Brawl is much more balanced in favor of the latter, so characters that had to work a lot harder for that one hit couldn't capitalize, making them even worse as characters, and making the game far less balanced. B+ attempts to make it so that the amount of work required to land that first hit is somewhat more proportionate to the reward.

 

[noradseven]

B+ has the opportunity to be no more or less fair than Melee was. Although I'll agree that the developers are having the problem of thinking fair means making everyone better. B+ didn't need a whole great deal after hitstun was increased, and yet everyone seems to want every character buffed in some way when they don't need it.

Either way, B+'s philosophy is more that everyone should be able to really benefit from a successful hit or grab, thereby putting more balance between offense and defense, where Brawl is much more balanced in favor of the latter, so characters that had to work a lot harder for that one hit couldn't capitalize, making them even worse as characters, and making the game far less balanced. B+ attempts to make it so that the amount of work required to land that first hit is somewhat more proportionate to the reward.

Here is a tip the length of the combos has almost no effect on how offensive or defensive a game is, it just makes them go faster, and more entertaining to watch. Adding block stun does though. Pretty much anything that makes attacking safer makes a game more offensive.

 

[SpongeBathBill]

How do I perform the footstool infinite on ROB?

I searched the thread but didn't quite find the answer I was looking for.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

How do I perform the footstool infinite on ROB?

I searched the thread but didn't quite find the answer I was looking for.

Downsmash, footstool, dair, repeat.

It sounds weird until you do it. Basically you ahve to dair ASAP and because of rob's weird footstool animation, you land on the ground with no lag and can immediately dsmash again.

I recommend pivoting after dsmash.

 

[ph00tbag]

Here is a tip the length of the combos has almost no effect on how offensive or defensive a game is, it just makes them go faster, and more entertaining to watch. Adding block stun does though. Pretty much anything that makes attacking safer makes a game more offensive.

And increasing hitstun also makes offense safer as a follow-up. In Brawl, I can't follow up most moves safely without waiting for my opponent's reaction. In Brawl+ I can.

 

[noradseven]

And increasing hitstun also makes offense safer as a follow-up. In Brawl, I can't follow up most moves safely without waiting for my opponent's reaction. In Brawl+ I can.

The block stun makes a bigger difference, than the hit stun.