Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[NickRiddle]

ZSS + Lucas...
>.> <.< >.>

 

[Hence]

ZSS + Lucas...
>.> <.< >.>

I've tried it. That team will never happen again for all I'm concerned.

 

[NickRiddle]

I've tried it. That team will never happen again for all I'm concerned.

I think it's cool.

 

[ph00tbag]

ZSS+Lucas is a good team idea, but ultimately, Lucas and ZSS tend to get in each others' way. Both characters control too much of the stage on their own, and they can wind up being mutually disruptive.

 

[noradseven]

ZSS+Lucas is a good team idea, but ultimately, Lucas and ZSS tend to get in each others' way. Both characters control too much of the stage on their own, and they can wind up being mutually disruptive.

I played an entire tournament match with them we only hit each other once lucas hit me with the tail of u-b, and I healed lucas for about 70% though out the match, we hadn't played a ZSS/Lucas team before but both of us were very experienced in doubles.

ZSS/Olimar was hilarious wall, ZSS and diddy is projectile death. ZSS and Sheik can dominate the game from flat space control though the lack of killing power on either of them can be a problem, but thats what sheiks up B is for .

 

[FadedImage]

though the lack of killing power

imo ZSS ***** kill power in doubles. side-b stays fresh, since it's a lot harder to spam it with so much going on. Plus, ZSS is so fast she can hit people with b-air while they're still in hitstun from your ally's stuff.

I dunno, I've teamed with Peach a couple times, and I averaged like 4-5 kills.

 

[noradseven]

imo ZSS ***** kill power in doubles. side-b stays fresh, since it's a lot harder to spam it with so much going on. Plus, ZSS is so fast she can hit people with b-air while they're still in hitstun from your ally's stuff.

I dunno, I've teamed with Peach a couple times, and I averaged like 4-5 kills.

I use over B more in doubles, I know you can kill but neither of you are early killers ZSS is more in the middle of the kill zone and in doubles most teams have 1 person who can kill very early.

 

[Snakeee]

I KO ppl at the top of the stage with Up Airs A LOT. Almost everytime my teammate sends them in the air I go after them, and end up getting a lot of KOs early. I also have the most amount of KOs (sometimes 5 a game), while my teammate does the most damage. ZSS racks damage up great too though. I'm mainly talking about when I'm teaming with Meta, which I usually am now.

 

[noradseven]

I KO ppl at the top of the stage with Up Airs A LOT. Almost everytime my teammate sends them in the air I go after them, and end up getting a lot of KOs early. I also have the most amount of KOs (sometimes 5 a game), while my teammate does the most damage. ZSS racks damage up great too though. I'm mainly talking about when I'm teaming with Meta, which I usually am now.

I tend to get alot of the kills first too, but when I said kill early I meant G&W, ness early like at 70% rather than at 120% that tends to happen a bit more with u-air and her other killing moves, the move I normally kill the earliest with is over B around 50-60%.

 

[Snakeee]

I tend to get alot of the kills first too, but when I said kill early I meant G&W, ness early like at 70% rather than at 120% that tends to happen a bit more with u-air and her other killing moves, the move I normally kill the earliest with is over B around 50-60%.

Side B at that percent had to be way off the stage. For that matter I have KO'ed with Up air as early as 30% when it was the very top. ZSS can just jump so high that she can catch the opponent from nearly any height.

 

[noradseven]

Side B at that percent had to be way off the stage. For that matter I have KO'ed with Up air as early as 30% when it was the very top. ZSS can just jump so high that she can catch the opponent from nearly any height.

the over B does, it happens quite often for me too.

The reason why I guess I don't chase with u-air as much super high up is my friends always airdodge its quite depressing, plus when your opponents are lucas/lucario/pikachu, a quick down air, beats it, so I get a bit afraid, I need to charge a bit more on the other characters. I bet it would work better at tournies, but even my friends have a hard time with the over B chasing sometimes.

Also most of us like levels with high ceilings.

 

[ph00tbag]

I played an entire tournament match with them we only hit each other once lucas hit me with the tail of u-b, and I healed lucas for about 70% though out the match, we hadn't played a ZSS/Lucas team before but both of us were very experienced in doubles.

I never said it was impossible to avoid hitting each other in the situation. You just need, as you said, doubles experience. The problem is that each character's options are limited by whether or not their interrupting the other's game. I can't number the amount of times, even in match-ups where my teammate wouldn't normally be getting in my way, when I've had to back off from a dsmash combo, or a Plasma Whip which could have KO'd. It gets worse when your teammate needs a lot of space to control whomever he's dealing with.

It can be managed, but it's limiting.

 

[Snakeee]

the over B does, it happens quite often for me too.

The reason why I guess I don't chase with u-air as much super high up is my friends always airdodge its quite depressing, plus when your opponents are lucas/lucario/pikachu, a quick down air, beats it, so I get a bit afraid, I need to charge a bit more on the other characters. I bet it would work better at tournies, but even my friends have a hard time with the over B chasing sometimes.

Also most of us like levels with high ceilings.

You have to bait out the airdodge. And no d-air truly beats her up air. Unless you count the ones with super range, but are too slow to stop it anyway.
Also the side B is wayyy harder to hit with offstage than up airs. I don't understand how your friends are airdodging the up air, but fail to avoid such a slow and obvious move that often lol.

 

[NickRiddle]

You have to bait out the airdodge. And no d-air truly beats her up air. Unless you count the ones with super range, but are too slow to stop it anyway.
Also the side B is wayyy harder to hit with offstage than up airs. I don't understand how your friends are airdodging the up air, but fail to avoid such a slow and obvious move that often lol.

Well, if they are air-dodging out of habit, side-b will punish it. Just a thought. :3

 

[Snakeee]

Well, if they are air-dodging out of habit, side-b will punish it. Just a thought. :3

The side B is so slow that this is virtually impossible. Unless you get lucky and they air dodge the very moment you start the Side B you will miss. Regardless, a smart player that knows this match up won't do anything until you close in on them and you should never hit them with this really. The only times it sometimes works is if they are still flying off the stage, and I catch them in the compass.

 

[ph00tbag]

The side B is so slow that this is virtually impossible. Unless you get lucky and they air dodge the very moment you start the Side B you will miss. Regardless, a smart player that knows this match up won't do anything until you close in on them and you should never hit them with this really. The only times it sometimes works is if they are still flying off the stage, and I catch them in the compass.

You can also do it if you've got them in the air and don't have enough space to follow them with a uair.

 

[noradseven]

You have to bait out the airdodge. And no d-air truly beats her up air. Unless you count the ones with super range, but are too slow to stop it anyway.
Also the side B is wayyy harder to hit with offstage than up airs. I don't understand how your friends are airdodging the up air, but fail to avoid such a slow and obvious move that often lol.

Mostly because when they are offstage they are forced to dodge, so they can dodge, but Ill just do more shenanigans, they often do dodge though, and u-air loses to lucario once he is over like 100% yes you can beat it if the lucario player is dumb, normally the best option is to bait a d-air with a jump dodge into another aireal for that, just everyone I play with has gotten in the habit of fast falling, and dodging all my u-airs(yes I fastfall) or smacking me if I get careless. When playing with random people though I have noticed a larger number of connects on both u-airs and off stage over B, plus not many people expect attacks when they arn't on the screen.

 

[Hence]

You can also do it if you've got them in the air and don't have enough space to follow them with a uair.

Taking the time to innitiate start-up for Plasma Whip is a baaad idea. In that ammount of time you could obviously FF an U-Air from Plasma Whip range.

 

[ph00tbag]

Taking the time to innitiate start-up for Plasma Whip is a baaad idea. In that ammount of time you could obviously FF an U-Air from Plasma Whip range.

If I go in for the uair, they can drift to the hitbox's left or right, both of which are unprotected. They could also airdodge the hit, and then punish me, because they will have less landing lag.

If I go for the Plasma Whip, they can only drift away from me. If they drift towards me, I will jab or utilt them. They can air dodge past the whip, but most characters can't punish from that distance.

With the uair, I have less control over my opponent's options, thus they will be harder for me to predict, and they will have a better chance of turning the situation around. I have more control over my opponent if I use Plasma Whip.

 

[noradseven]

If I go in for the uair, they can drift to the hitbox's left or right, both of which are unprotected. They could also airdodge the hit, and then punish me, because they will have less landing lag.

If I go for the Plasma Whip, they can only drift away from me. If they drift towards me, I will jab or utilt them. They can air dodge past the whip, but most characters can't punish from that distance.

With the uair, I have less control over my opponent's options, thus they will be harder for me to predict, and they will have a better chance of turning the situation around. I have more control over my opponent if I use Plasma Whip.

Plasma whip is dodge bait, I prefer people to not get hit by it, especially the spiking part most of the time, on characters with slower dodges, you can force them to dodge using it then punish, its a fairly reliable tactic.

Plus if done right its 100% safe.

 

[ph00tbag]

Plasma whip is dodge bait, I prefer people to not get hit by it, especially the spiking part most of the time, on characters with slower dodges, you can force them to dodge using it then punish, its a fairly reliable tactic.

Plus if done right its 100% safe.

You're talking about Plasma Wire, but it's good, too. I'm a big fan if they're far enough above me, because it forces the airdodge before they would like to.

 

[sasook]

And no d-air truly beats her up air. Unless you count the ones with super range, but are too slow to stop it anyway.

What about ones that are disjointed? I'm talking Marth, Ike, Link, TL, G&W, D3, IC, etc.

 

[noradseven]

What about ones that are disjointed? I'm talking Marth, Ike, Link, TL, G&W, D3, IC, etc.

because besides from lucario at 100+ %, you can edge over to the spot where there hitbox will miss and yours will win, aka approach at a slight angle, and you can gank all these people easily marth and G&W's are still a bit tricky though.

 

[SuperToughPinkPuff]

Rather than make a thread i tought id un-noobishly use this thread to ask about a potential combo...

I was messing around in training today and when i was below the stage on lylat cruise i used the up b and smashed down....the first hits stunned the cpu then somehow dragged him off the stage...Though i couldnt repeat that feat it got me thinking...could this be exploited? So off i went to halberd with a lvl 3 cpu to test this out and sure enough you can dsmash for the stun then upb them and smash down while its hiting to pull them onto the platform overhead (you need to be below it) and begin spamming the up in that fashion like a mad man....Has this already been discovered/discussed? And no im not sure whether you can s-di out so ill (or you can) test it soon

 

[sasook]

It's been discovered, pretty old. Thanks for not making a new thread though ^_^

It looks cool, but sadly it's really escapable - like, VERY easily.

 

[SuperToughPinkPuff]

Haha shes a new main im picking up so excuse my ignorance haha

 

[Wenis of Lore]

i'll admit, i haven't read this whole thing, but i'll ask this question anyways..... so i was looking over the mario boards for a way to beat him(btw, marios are currently going over a thread on how to gimp ZSS), and i saw a thread on an "infinite jump". as i read on, someone posted that all characters have this and most bowser mains do it for combo set-ups. there was a video of mario doing it rapid fire aswell and i thought it would be a massive exploit to use for ZSS since she's good at short hop/attack situations. apparently it's just a re-use of the second jump not a 3rd...... i'm still new to these boards, but is it even possible to do this with zero suit?

 

[FadedImage]

i'm still new to these boards, but is it even possible to do this with zero suit?

yeah it's possible, but it's a really hard technique, and in my opinion isn't that useful with zss since she rises so fast anyways.

 

[noradseven]

yeah it's possible, but it's a really hard technique, and in my opinion isn't that useful with zss since she rises so fast anyways.

What is this stuff link please.

 

[Wenis of Lore]

What is this stuff link please.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232239

that's the mario thread i found it on. i couldn't find a video of ZSS doing the infinite jump and since i don't know how to do it, i'll take Faded's word. but i do agree with the fact that it may not help considering how fast she is....... but it does look like there's no jump-landing lag which could mean more rapid-fire shorthop kicks.

 

[FadedImage]

here's a better explanation:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173119

that's the actual AT and the list for everyone.

it's good for people who can do stuff like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOfW7dFoDOk

however, the timing is still ridiculously hard.

you can't shorthop out of it, it's using your second jump, which is a set height.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

here's a better explanation:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=1731190

that's the actual AT and the list for everyone.

it's good for people who can do stuff like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOfW7dFoDOk

however, the timing is still ridiculously hard.

you can't shorthop out of it, it's using your second jump, which is a set height.

Faded that link is broken.

 

[Hence]

What about ones that are disjointed? I'm talking Marth, Ike, Link, TL, G&W, D3, IC, etc.

Listen guys, you're all wrong. There's no such thing as aerial priorty. Of course, this means if a D-Air and U-Air collide at that same time, you'll trade hits. A very good example is G&W. If you don't time your U-Air properly, you'll trade hits or simply get hit. Whether an attack "beats" another is completely under the control of the player. So yes, ZSS' U-Air can theoretically "beat" every D-Air, but you have to time your attack well (even if it is four frames).

 

[Nefarious B]

Which is why nair confuses me, because there isn't supposed to be aerial clanking yet it happens with that move.

 

[FadedImage]

whoops, I hit 0 when I was typing the brackets for the url code. fixt.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172824

here's another one too.

 

[Hence]

ISJR would be useful for characters who can wall with aerials or have great aerial control. It's completely impractical though; especially for ZSS.

 

[FadedImage]

my thoughts exactly.

I would say it's pretty cool for multi-jump chars too, since it replenishes most of their jumps. But yeah, only real use is on moves where it's really easy to do, (quick attack, bowser side-b, etc.)

 

[ph00tbag]

Which is why nair confuses me, because there isn't supposed to be aerial clanking yet it happens with that move.

I explained this in the nair thread. It has special priority. That means it acts just like a special move when it encounters a hitbox.

 

[Black_Heretic]

Snakes are discussing ZSS for our matchup thread and we would like your input

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235549

thanks =D

 

[Yankee]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235249
Do we have anything similar to this? Although, I'm still unsure if it was determined escapable. It would be easier for ZSS to set up something like this too because we can footstool out of down smash. Closest thing i can think f is the rob infinite.