Zelda+Sheik Matchup Listing

[ADHD]

sheik vs mk is so not fun =(

can't even short hop strong back air him

Its not as hard as you think it appears. My first meta experience, i was scared ****less lol

You have to stay grounded, know when to shield, its bad to be in the air for obvious reasons. Go zelda around 90ish because he dies quickly. Just do anything you can, play defensively with Downsmashes and add some Fsmashes and grabs, and then tilt lock to zelda's Usmash.

 

[ADHD]

sheik vs mk is so not fun =(

can't even short hop strong back air him

Its not as hard as you think it appears. My first meta experience, i was scared ****less lol

You have to stay grounded, know when to shield, its bad to be in the air for obvious reasons. Go zelda around 90ish because he dies quickly. Just do anything you can, play defensively with Downsmashes and add some Fsmashes and grabs tilt lock him, and go into zelda's Usmash.

Make zelda's upsmash your goal.

 

[Charoo]

i never said it was hard haha

it's just not fun.

Personally, I prefer the nair

 

[Tristan_win]

You know what's really surprising at how effect it is

Sheik chain against the Ice climbers, not only can you not get chain grabbed but the only move they have that can beat it is the blizzard(down b?) which if you DI up and away doesn't do that much damage and does a poor job setting you up for another attack.

The chain especial good for recovery from the ledge.

The whole thing gives the match up a more rock paper scissors feel which if you ask me is much better then having it 10/90.

 

[demodemo]

Personally, I prefer the nair

i c wut u did thar

 

[a77]

Sheik can grab MK right out of grab release. On FD you could grab release > grab from one end of the stage to the other and then finish with a u-smash to KO off the side (if they're at 100% or so). Needles work from grab release as well.

Probably known already, but I haven't seen it in any Sheik/MK videos yet.

 

[choknater]

yeah, sheik has some gay grab stuff on mk. grab release chain grab across the stage (which happens to do absolutely terrible damage)

grab release boost usmash (very hard to do consistently)

mk still has quite the large advantage

however needles and weaving in to approach him and dealing lots of damage will always be sheik's strategy which is capable of beating any character

 

[Tristan_win]

I notice you guys are talking about grab releases well what if the meta knight does not go into the air and does a ground break?

Can you still regrab him before he can hit you?

 

[ADHD]

I notice you guys are talking about grab releases well what if the meta knight does not go into the air and does a ground break?

Can you still regrab him before he can hit you?

Yeah I want to know this as well!

If this is true.... I will win every battle with this guy :D

 

[popsofctown]

This chain grab talk definitely interests me. If i can rack with the chain grab and use chain and needles and then kill with Zelda... dare i whisper it..... could we get to 40/60??

 

[Zankoku]

It's a grab release chaingrab. That's a damage output of like.... 2% a second. And you'll run out of space quickly because of how far MK goes from his jumping break. Sheik's pummel is too slow to make sliding breaks reliable, and MK's sliding break is really too fast besides.

Rack damage with ftilt lock, needles, chain.

 

[Tristan_win]

Well Ankoku if that's the case then perhaps we should be looking at this a diffent way

We already know that if meta knight breaks free though the air we can do a usmash with proper timing and spacing before he can do anything. Now a running grab comes out in 9 frames so theoretical any attack that comes out in 9 frames or less should connect before meta knight can escape or defend himself.

With that said I can see the AAA combo, dash attack, all of sheik tilts, and needle storm being a option.

Edit: Does grab release give you any type of buffering frames?

 

[R3N0]

ankoku, you say ftilt lock, needles, chain.

so..

chain you hit em like sweet spot lets say give em some percent.. then he just fairs you 3 times or grabs you or down smash or does any number of ******** things while u put the chain away.

needles, you don't even have time to charge needles, in all honesty. meta is too fast and too g4y
ftilt lock, you can ftilt them 3 times tops before they di + jump out.

i dont know its probably because none of you play in the NY smash scene but sheik is not even a viable choice vs meta. Meta in my opinion is probably sheik's WORST matchup. Thats why the way I beat meta is to change to snake. haha =D
btw cheq out some sheik vids of mine on the sticky.

 

[<π]

or reno... maybe you aren't good with shiek yet.

All of what you just said doesn't make sense.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

None of Meta's attacks can beat the Chain from the front if you wave it correctly.

Playing keep away while charging needles and still keeping yourself safe isn't overly difficult... less so if you get any sort of decent hit in to create space.

Ftilts still work well against Meta Knight until he hits the 50 mark, at which point ftilts won't combo into themselves very well anymore and should be immediately followed by a combo ender. It's all about having the frame perfect timing to get the ftilts to lock him, as ftilt has no buffer frames into itself like Zelda's dtilt does.

It's really not that bad a match for Sheik.

 

[R3N0]

<3

im sorry, you live in CT, who plays in CT? thats actually a "good" meta knight?
The only good brawler out there is probably Cort and he plays snake.

You don't understand what it is vs good meta knights. and I'm sure <3 that my sheik is better than yours. And I don't even have to look at yours.


Ryoko, I'm gonna look for your vids vs meta if you have any.

Playing keep away with needles, if i start charging needles meta rushes in with his ridiculous dash speed, power shields the needles and grabs.

ftilt really doesn't do that well, in all honesty if they di inward they get out in like 2-4 hits tops. from like 10-30 or so, after that they are gone.

meta is the worst matchup for sheik.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

If they DI the ftilt inward, turn around and keep doing it, or just utilt them out. Either way, at least respectable amounts of damage are done by ftilt. Best case scenario would be taking from about 20-65 due to one ftilt combo. Even if less than that, it's still good damage and an integral way to build damage on him.

Learn how to cancel your needle charges and to charge needles in the air. You can do a fullhop needle charge and cancel that into an aerial Chain for example, which we already established that Meta can't really do anything about. It's really far from impossible to get your needles in.

 

[R3N0]

of course i aerial cancel needles, lets be real, but on certain stages, its ridiculous. You need to come to NY and just enter a tourny vs these **** metas in ny. Then you'll see!!!

"Learn how to cancel your needle charges and to charge needles in the air. You can do a fullhop needle charge and cancel that into an aerial Chain for example, which we already established that Meta can't really do anything about. It's really far from impossible to get your needles in."

RYOKO WE'VE PLAYED IN PERSON, I KNOW THIS AMATURE CRAP! However I think I'll "TRY" to incorporate aerial chain more into the fighting vs meta.. I'm still stuck on melee where that crap was really terrible. =x...

and i guess I'll take a look into this chain jacket.. it looks awesome but hard to pull off. But I don't really "PRACTICE" so i guess thats also why haha

im not trying to say its impossible vs meta, just worst. who you do you think is worse?

 

[stealthsushi]

I might give the worst match-up to Ice-Climbers. While Sheik's metagame has been slowly developing against Meta Knight given his prevalence everywhere, the strategy for fighting Ice Climbers hasn't developed too much. There's the general tips like don't get grabbed and separate Popo from Nana, but I haven't read too much beyond that. Also, Popo can do a solo D-Throw chain-grab on Sheik, which is painful on top of IC's flexible grab-game and ability to KO at relatively good percentages.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

There are really so many ways to work in needle charges into any lull in the action that I really can't see how even the most aggressive of Meta Knights can escalate the problem to anything more than an inconvenience. The point of the Needle charge cancel into a aerial Chain was, if they try to rush in and interrupt that Needle charge, what will happen is they will get whip ***** and thus will think twice before rushing in at the mere sight of a needle charge.

 

[R3N0]

haha im gonna use it ryoko.

 

[imdavid]

<3's sheik is really good

 

[ADHD]

<3

im sorry, you live in CT, who plays in CT? thats actually a "good" meta knight?
The only good brawler out there is probably Cort and he plays snake.

You don't understand what it is vs good meta knights. and I'm sure <3 that my sheik is better than yours. And I don't even have to look at yours.


Ryoko, I'm gonna look for your vids vs meta if you have any.

Playing keep away with needles, if i start charging needles meta rushes in with his ridiculous dash speed, power shields the needles and grabs.

ftilt really doesn't do that well, in all honesty if they di inward they get out in like 2-4 hits tops. from like 10-30 or so, after that they are gone.

meta is the worst matchup for sheik.

That whole matchup, is based on staying in the center of the stage, you've gotta be an opportunist. 95ish percent damage is your goal, thats when he dies with a zelda Usmash. This matchup takes more experience as sheik more than any other character in my opinion. You have to learn what attacks are good for what situation, the dsmash is my most relied move in this matchup. Ftilt lock every now and then is pretty amazing, needles stop the whornado or drill rush, so I would advise using them mostly for defensive purposes. Honestly, you won't win, for a LONG time lol

 

[ADHD]

I might give the worst match-up to Ice-Climbers. While Sheik's metagame has been slowly developing against Meta Knight given his prevalence everywhere, the strategy for fighting Ice Climbers hasn't developed too much. There's the general tips like don't get grabbed and separate Popo from Nana, but I haven't read too much beyond that. Also, Popo can do a solo D-Throw chain-grab on Sheik, which is painful on top of IC's flexible grab-game and ability to KO at relatively good percentages.

Btw stealth, once you start mastering samus, you'll realize she should be considered and ice climber counter.

 

[stealthsushi]

Btw stealth, once you start mastering samus, you'll realize she should be considered and ice climber counter.

I had a feeling she'd be a good Ice Climber counter when I picked her up and looked at her strengths. She does have the ridiculous priority and range Z-Air, a very good mix-up of projectiles, a defensive move in her bombs, and her recovering ability is quite good. I believe she should be able to meteor cancel the IC's Chain Grab > Spike off the stage effectively given that her Screw Attack has pretty good priority and vertical range.

I'm hoping I can work with Samus to have her become a G&W and MK counter (hopefully) and I'll have most of Sheik/Zelda's highly unfavorable matchups in the bag Pretty much any counter that I've devised heavily relies on spaced Z-Airs (god that move is good) mixed in with MC-HM/MC-PM, falling U-Air to Up-B combo, and semi-aggressive edge-guarding by creating openings with homing missiles, bombs, and Z-Air.

 

[Yeniths]

Sorry but I've gotta be missing something here, Lucas for me is one of my hardest match up, his attacks seem to have greater priority then all of Shiek's. Maybe its because I'm not approaching right or something, but any help would be great, I just don't see how he's meant to be "favorable".

 

[a77]

Well Ankoku if that's the case then perhaps we should be looking at this a diffent way

We already know that if meta knight breaks free though the air we can do a usmash with proper timing and spacing before he can do anything. Now a running grab comes out in 9 frames so theoretical any attack that comes out in 9 frames or less should connect before meta knight can escape or defend himself.

With that said I can see the AAA combo, dash attack, all of sheik tilts, and needle storm being a option.

Edit: Does grab release give you any type of buffering frames?

Dash attack works, but a running u-smash will do more damage and knockback. I don't think there's any way to get to MK in time to do an aaa or tilt. Maybe with frame perfect needle cancelling, but even then I don't know. Is foxtrotting with Sheik faster than a regular dash? That might work. Either way it'd be really difficult to pull off.

 

[demodemo]

with the new pikachu cg, the matchup can't be even anymore

40-60 as best

 

[Zankoku]

Updated.

Also feel free to give commentary on which character to use and how it might affect the matchup, since I'm not good at Zelda so I have no idea~

 

[popsofctown]

I have a thread for that, but no one will contribute intelligently... ugh.

Zelda against ICs and Wario for sure, off the top of my head.



I agree with Yenith about Lucas. He's really hard to get at. PK thunder impairs your approach options, and his aerial game, while inferior, can manage well as a combo stopper.

 

[ADHD]

I have a thread for that, but no one will contribute intelligently... ugh.

Zelda against ICs and Wario for sure, off the top of my head.



I agree with Yenith about Lucas. He's really hard to get at. PK thunder impairs your approach options, and his aerial game, while inferior, can manage well as a combo stopper.

Camp like a mofo, he sucks at playing offensively.

 

[ADHD]

I had a feeling she'd be a good Ice Climber counter when I picked her up and looked at her strengths. She does have the ridiculous priority and range Z-Air, a very good mix-up of projectiles, a defensive move in her bombs, and her recovering ability is quite good. I believe she should be able to meteor cancel the IC's Chain Grab > Spike off the stage effectively given that her Screw Attack has pretty good priority and vertical range.

I'm hoping I can work with Samus to have her become a G&W and MK counter (hopefully) and I'll have most of Sheik/Zelda's highly unfavorable matchups in the bag Pretty much any counter that I've devised heavily relies on spaced Z-Airs (god that move is good) mixed in with MC-HM/MC-PM, falling U-Air to Up-B combo, and semi-aggressive edge-guarding by creating openings with homing missiles, bombs, and Z-Air.

Lol gl with that, metaknight vs samus is as hard as sheik vs samus, in fact samus needs her bombs in this matchup. Spam the bombs but you need to know when to stop and start. GnW is pretty bad but its better than metaknight in my opinion.

Your hardest matchup might be luigi, samus and sheik are both bad against that guy, dunno about zelda.

 

[imdavid]

what's your positions on pokemon trainer guys? i never attempt the fight and just use samus for that match up, samus can literally spike charizard and squirtle and just tether to kill ivysaur... so i never attempted it with sheik, but i'm curious as to see what you guys do

 

[Zankoku]

I **** each of them hard with Sheik and then transform into Zelda for an easy KO.

But I've only played Samurai Panda's Pokémon Trainer, so I wouldn't know how the matchup actually goes.

 

[demodemo]

no sheik for ICs? lolololol

 

[imdavid]

why would you use sheik for IC anyways... *shudders*

 

[Zankoku]

I redid the front page and added a link to stealthsushi's matchup discussion thread. Whee.

 

[ADHD]

Rob is harder than olimar? Why?

This is really organized good job, i agree with pretty much everything except olimar

 

[Zankoku]

I dunno, Olimar is really annoying, but the combination of Sheik's edgeguard ability and Olimar's reliance on a tether recovery makes him relatively easy to gimp, and apparently there was some merit to DanGR's post about Sheik's jab beating out Olimar's stuff. There's a heavy reliance on not being careless and autocanceling a lot, but if you do that then Olimar won't DESTROY you.

 

[imdavid]

after playing lots of MK, ROB, and G&W, i don't think sheik has that bad of a disadvantage against them. in fact i think sheik is within 40-60 to 50-50 on almost all of her match ups except for IC :/