Zelda+Sheik Matchup Listing

[PhantomX]

No, the fact that I actually looked at the chain and timed it.

 

[Snakeee]

Hmm, I guess I should start using the chain more I hardly ever use it at all. I think it's honestly Sheik/Zelda's favor against Wario regardless of how well the chain works on him though.

I need to make sure I have the right timing for the glitch. Ryoko showed me it a long time ago

 

[Zankoku]

iirc, when you're defending, you're supposed to time what you do based on the opponent, not make the opponent time his way through you. But maybe I'm wrong, and you people have decided instead to play defense like you're psychics.

 

[PhantomX]

Hmm, I guess I should start using the chain more I hardly ever use it at all. I think it's honestly Sheik/Zelda's favor against Wario regardless of how well the chain works on him though.

I need to make sure I have the right timing for the glitch. Ryoko showed me it a long time ago

I also think it might be slightly in her favor, mostly b/c of the ridiculous frames on her moves, not b/c of a gimmick like the chain. I also don't know if he was messing up or not, but he didn't manage to grab me very often.

 

[Snakeee]

I also think it might be slightly in her favor, mostly b/c of the ridiculous frames on her moves, not b/c of a gimmick like the chain. I also don't know if he was messing up or not, but he didn't manage to grab me very often.

It's mainly what you said, plus the grab releases. I know I know, it's hard to grab Wario, but I don't know I'm pretty good at it. If you powershield his aerials you can often grab him out of them, or you can catch him under other circumstances.

 

[Villi]

Fiction and I played a set where I could only use chain, and needles if he picked up his bike. He won, but they were close and I took a match off. lolz (2 minute matches and whoever caused the most damage won)

He was usually able to hit me when I whiffed or otherwise lost control of the chain.

 

[PhantomX]

Snakeee, you need to come to WHOBO, I really want to play you. Both your Sheik and your ZSS, especially the latter though as our only ZSS pretty much quit.

 

[Snakeee]

Snakeee, you need to come to WHOBO, I really want to play you. Both your Sheik and your ZSS, especially the latter though as our only ZSS pretty much quit.

Really far, but when is that? If I find ppl that are going then maybe I could go with them.

 

[PhantomX]

It's in April. I know Atomsk, Inui, Ally, and other big namers are coming. Would be great if you could <3

 

[Kataefi]

Villi did you play as Zelda against Fiction at all?

 

[Snakeee]

It's in April. I know Atomsk, Inui, Ally, and other big namers are coming. Would be great if you could <3

I just talked to Atomsk and M2K about it. There's a decent chance I'll be going now. But enough off topic posts sorry guys.

 

[Villi]

Villi did you play as Zelda against Fiction at all?

Nope =/ We just got the tv for the money match.

 

[Villi]

Can we please discuss Meta Knight? I always lose to them in tournament. ;_;

 

[Blistering Speed]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221243

To be honest if you cant handle MK past using all that advice, then you need to get good with the chain or pick a secondary. Having the most popular tournament character in the game as a 65:35 disadvantage is a *****. I now never use Sheik on a MK unless it's someone I know I'm better then, I just use my Falco, Snake or Bowser.

 

[Voyeur]

if you're like me and stuck to Sheik with no secondary, CAMP! and camp hard like a ******.
Who cares if they complain, as long as you win the set, camping is a legit strategy. It's like KITE in WoW.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Sheik mains need a secondary if they want to perform well in large tournaments, this isn't a Naruto manga where if you believe in yourself enough then you can do it. There are MK's either equal or better in skill to you and they will consistently beat you.

 

[Kataefi]

By that knowledge the only secondary ideal enough to get passed those of equal skill who use mk IS (unfortunately) mk... >.>

Oh brawl =(

 

[Voyeur]

Honestly I've seen the match ups ratio against MK between 2 of the same skilled players with their respective character mean absolutely nothing when it comes to just being a smart and knowledgeable player. I think everyone can agree and see that if you know how to camp and play defensive, you will most likely win a lot of your match ups, regardless of ratio. That is just sadly how Brawl is.

(the players? Tryant: MK vs Bones: Peach)

so I'll stick to one main thank you very much <3 Zelda is always there if and when I choose I guess.

 

[Villi]

Haha, I forgot about that thread. ^^; Anyway, alright. I just have very little MK experience as Sheik. And my Meta "counter" is Peach, so... *sigh*

 

[<π]

I think everyone can agree and see that if you know how to camp and play defensive, you will most likely win a lot of your match ups, regardless of ratio. That is just sadly how Brawl is.

That isn't true at all, camping is far from impossible to get around. A good meta can a will easily adapt to needle and other camping stratagies and easily beat any good poke options you have.

so I'll stick to one main thank you very much <3

np.

 

[Voyeur]

Forgot, Planking is a big thing now*

and I just gave you an example of a good Meta, if not great Meta Knight player. Camping, Planking and being defensive is what you need to do to win Tournaments sadly, for all characters. Being aggressive will usually get you the loss. True an MK or any player will adapt to that and counter but it's hard none the less to find a way in to break that style up. For the most part a lot of things aren't impossible, but that doesn't mean they are easily doable.

 

[-Mars-]

I still think Sheik is viable as a tournament character in Brawl and hopefully we all will get to the point one day where we're confident in our character and don't feel the need to pick up a secondary.

I think the chain is still largely unexplored and could alter a bunch of Sheiks harder matchups if anyone could use it effectively.

 

[Villi]

"Aggressive" and "defensive" are overly simplistic terms. There are a number of matchup specific problems Sheik creates and must overcome or avoid. Abilities like reading one's opponent and understanding their options as well as your own at given moments are necessary skills. A character like MK just has more options that can punish Sheik severely or one-size-fits-all type counters to her strategies.

 

[Snakeee]

Sheik alone has a couple of rough match ups, but if you're using both Sheik and Zelda you can pretty much cover everything to the point where nothing is TOO uphill. And I don't really think Metaknight is that bad of a match up but it is his favor

EDIT: I just realized this worked, I'm not sure if this is a known thing against Diddy. I'm sure some people know at least, Banana - DACUS

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I rather go as Zelda against Meta Knight since it's just a safer option to me. Hahaha, I remember I had a MK glide right at me and I think he hit the A button too late so he got a lightning kick to his face. XD

 

[Sosuke]

Toon Link's are discussing Sheik stage counterpicks and bans!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209912

It'll only take like 2-3 minutes. Just post what you think is a good/ bad stage for Sheik (against Toon Link) and why.
It can be like one sentence or something. Just put some amount of an explanation please. ^_^


It took me months to finally memorize that it was "Sheik" and not "Shiek".


I apologize if this seems like the wrong place to post this, I wouldn't want to make a thread that would be against the rules. >_>;

 

[IsmashedYOURmom]

I seem to have trouble beating my friend's lucario. He's a simpleton type of player, and i'm the kind of guy that likes to mix things up and all that, but when i play him i always use sheik. Maybe it's the thrill of the disadvantage that I have, but good lord is it a bad matchup.

All he freakin does is roll everywhere - he barely runs, or uses aerials. It's all d-tilts, f-smash, d-smash, grabs, and dairs(when i grab and throw him). If i wanna keep my thumb down on this guy what should I do? I almost have the DACUS tech mastered, and the vanish glide thing down, but if I were to seriously whoop his *** 8 out of 10 or 9 out of 10 times, how could I do it?

Sometimes I can trap him, d-smash his ***, and take him to 100% really quick, but that's where I always get in trouble. Where I should have knocked his *** out, he will kill me at 130+ percent almost every freakin time. And he'll kill me before I even grace 70%. Bull freakin shiet. Any suggestions?

 

[Ochobobo]

What with all the recent discussion about Zelda and Sheik, and the idea of a combo getting their own tier placement, I began wondering how good they truly are together. So I put together this matchup chart comparing the two. I also posted this on the Zelda boards, but figured it wouldn't go amiss here. It's basically just a different version of the chart in the original post lol

Even with all the characters missing it is worth noticing that the only bad matchups Zelda and Sheik have so far are against Meta Knight, Marth, and GW! (all 40/60 for both, except GW for Sheik) There are two 45/55's with Wario and Peach (both for Zelda) but they're so close to neutral they can hardly be considered bad. Still, only 3 matchups is great! Now we just need these matchup discussions to hurry up so we can figure out how many more we have, lol

I'll try to update this as often as I can when decisions are made.

 

[Tristan_win]

As a sheik extreamist who think sheik will be high tier one day let me just say one thing...

Sheik vs Game and Watch 60/40 in Sheik Favor

.....WHAT?! May I buy crack from you?

Even with the chain keep away game I wouldn't dream that match up being anymore more then around 50/50 if maybe leaning fainting in sheik favor but no more then 55/50 and that's pushing it a lot.

 

[Ochobobo]

Whoops sorry, that was a typo, lol. I copied it down wrong from GW's page... Fixed now. Let me know if you see any other mistakes >_>

 

[IsmashedYOURmom]

20/80 against IC's? really? I didn't know we sucked that bad against ICs. Good lord. I wanna fight against them sometime.

 

[Tristan_win]

20/80 against IC's? really? I didn't know we sucked that bad against ICs. Good lord. I wanna fight against them sometime.

Theses numbers are horrible don't take them too seriously and back before COT4 I fought meep ice climbers a bit and he thinks that the match up isn't that bad for sheik when compared to some others. I also almost took a round from Ambrose ice climber with nothing but sheik at CTF4 who is regarded as one of the better ice climbers user in Canada.

Whoops sorry, that was a typo, lol. I copied it down wrong from GW's page... Fixed now. Let me know if you see any other mistakes >_>

A lot of theses numbers seem to be pretty extreme from being too good for sheik or too bad for sheik and honestly I don't think you have enough of a idea about this game to make such a list really.

Who exactly are you Ochobobo?

 

[Ochobobo]

I didn't make up any of these numbers, they're all from the matchup threads already made up on these forums. In my opinion, I'd agree and say that a lot of the Sheik matchups could use some re-discussing.

Edit: Or what I could do is take the information from Akoku's chart, interpreting each + or - 1 as 5 points on a 100point scale ratio, and change it as you guys make new decisions in the current matchup thread.

I think that might be the best thing to do for now.

Edit 2: Just changed it. The biggest problem I see now is that Marth and Snake are considered equal for both Zelda and Sheik, whereas both are very arguably better matchups for Sheik. I'm not sure what to do about that, unless the current Snake discussion ends up at 45/55.

 

[IsmashedYOURmom]

i hate fighting lucario. PERIOD.

 

[Ochobobo]

Who exactly are you Ochobobo?

I'm usually Zelda, lol.

I'm trying to get better with Sheik, so I made that matchup chart to help with my transition. Sorry about things not matching up before, I hope the chart's better now. One thing that confuses me is that I got all the information from other matchup threads, as I said, and how different they were. For example the Wario boards said that their matchup with Sheik was 60/40 in Wario's favor, and this chart says the matchup is 60/40 in Sheik's favor. I'm not sure what to make of that. Some form of communication errors I'm guessing.

But in the end I'm supposing it would make more sense to go with the Sheik matchup chart. Thanks for the critiques, lol

 

[rathy Aro]

I'm usually Zelda, lol.

I'm trying to get better with Sheik, so I made that matchup chart to help with my transition. Sorry about things not matching up before, I hope the chart's better now. One thing that confuses me is that I got all the information from other matchup threads, as I said, and how different they were. For example the Wario boards said that their matchup with Sheik was 60/40 in Wario's favor, and this chart says the matchup is 60/40 in Sheik's favor. I'm not sure what to make of that. Some form of communication errors I'm guessing.

But in the end I'm supposing it would make more sense to go with the Sheik matchup chart. Thanks for the critiques, lol

After discussing most of us said it was 55/45 sheik's favor with many wario mains still believing its 55/45. Regardless its pretty close to even (assuming the chain doesn't **** wario).

 

[Snakeee]

Sorry if this sounds random, but I thought about this after what Ochobobo said about Marth and Snake.
I think Marth vs Sheik is almost even now after playing the match up a lot more, and finding ways to both approach and punish Marth. It's probably 55/45 Marth though, but I really love fighting him with Sheik.

 

[DMG]

After discussing most of us said it was 55/45 sheik's favor with many wario mains still believing its 55/45. Regardless its pretty close to even (assuming the chain doesn't **** wario).

It doesn't **** him lol...

But we already did that discussion.

Also I agree with Snakee. I don't see it being worse than 6/4 for Sheik.

 

[Flamingo]

I honestly don't see it being any better than 6-4 at top (pro) level. Being solidly out-ranged with a disjointed hitbox is pretty bad. I say camp with needles and powershield a Fair approach is the way to go. Marth has many options, and I wouldn't underestimate them. In a few weeks, I'll play Dr. PeePee, our #1 in the state ( only plays Marth) and report the results, and hopefully a vid to boot. I have a pretty good Sheik, I hope it's less than a 6-4 but I'm having a hard time believing it right now.

 

[Blistering Speed]

It doesn't **** him lol...

But we already did that discussion.

Yeah, and I'm fairly sure we simply told you that the chain ***** Wario and you provided a set with someone without perfect chain control as evidence that it doesn't. Using derogatory names like a 'gimmick' doesn't lessen it's impact. Until someone can control the chain well enough, you can put this down to a hypothesis, but the fact that it's within human capabilities means someone will be able to do it eventually, on that day we'll talk.

Marth's range isn't the shutdown it is to some characters, Sheik has the speed to get past it, she can effectively edgeguard Marth and she's one of the few characters who actually has a projectile which gives him trouble. Still, Marth's the better overall character, disjoints out the ***, strong offensive and very strong defensive game and his Up B really messes Sheik up. Sheik vs Marth is 60:40 for me, though knowing Snakeee he's probably pulled all sorts of crazy **** to push it to 55:45.