Zelda+: OP In-Process of Overhaul as of 04-05-10

[Katy Parry]

Yea, if we had textures on the front page, that'd bring more people.

But I posted a link on Page 13!

 

[Bandit]

I will put up those links because some of those textures were good, but the Tifa texture I am told crashes Smash when you try transform. Don't use this one. Also it does not look like it is shown in the screen shots (red gloves, boots, and suspenders aren't there).

 

[Katy Parry]

Yea, I know. Ugh.

But the group Smash Domain, who made the awesome Puppet Zelda texture I'm maining, is accepting me in their group! So they're going to teach me how to make textures!

Here's our site!

http://stacksmash.cultnet.net/brawlhost/hh92/

So once I'm in, I'll be able to make anything you guys want! :D

And Red, do you play Brawl+ online? I'd love to vs you, although I'm not that great.

 

[BRLNK88]

ooohhh, Puppet Zelda, I want that!! The only Zelda texture I have so far is the elegant red dress.
Anyone have any tips for dealing with ROBs? I never know how to properly recover or approach.
Zelda has that slow air speed, making her meat for ROBs edgeguarding, all the annoying pokes and jabs, and then that god **** gyro.

 

[JCaesar]

I think Bandit could help you with that one. He plays my ROB more than anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007 There's a ton of ROB vs Zelda vids on my youtube.

 

[BRLNK88]

I think Bandit could help you with that one. He plays my ROB more than anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007 There's a ton of ROB vs Zelda vids on my youtube.

yup, I've already seen those, I was thinking of them when I made that post. Bandit seemed to be having the same issues to a lesser degree.
But one of my friends I play the most against secondaries ROB, and my Zelda always gets ****ed by those issues I listed above. His main is Falcon, but I definitely have an easier time against his Falcon than his ROB. My Kirby is the only one that does well.

 

[Bandit]

Fair spam: DI away from ROB, air dodge, then recover safely.
Gyro: Neutral B
Nair: Air Dodge

Never challenge his aerials. Dair will beat his Nair but only if ROB's flame isn't vertical. I challenge ROB off the stage since he is able to be spiked and can be kept off the stage.

When you approach ROB, it is best to stay on a different plane than he is on. I like to SH around flinging dins from time to time as I weave in and out. The key is to bait him as Zelda is still bogged down by the same approach problems she has in vBrawl. Bait an attack, spot dodge, and punish. If you shield, simply hold it until you can roll out or U-Smash. ROB at low percents eats U-Smash to LK and at mids U-Smash to U-Air.

Your best option is usually U-Smash, D-Smash or D-Tilt. In the air, don't be afraid to Nair or attempt spikes. He can get had with a LK should his mess up his spacing.

This is not in Zelda's favor, and you might want to learn Sheik for the match-up. I do very well against ROB since I have played JCaesar for over a year on a daily basis, but it still is an uphill battle. Even in tournament, I have resorted to Sheik, but be warned, if you get caught in a fair combo with Sheik, you are dead. She has no recovery able to get back.

 

[Alphatron]

I think Bandit could help you with that one. He plays my ROB more than anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007 There's a ton of ROB vs Zelda vids on my youtube.

You're using that lousy new channel format. As a person who can't use anything but the wii for online, I can't even look through your videos.

 

[BRLNK88]

Gyro: Neutral B

I WISH it was as simple as that, but it isn't. He's extremely tricky with the gyro, knows when I'll try to use Nayru's Love, hit me at the end of it.
So... basically just don't approach?
I really think I should stick to Kirby or Tink for this match-up. I don't ever hope to be really good with Sheik. Kirbys been my most consistent plus character thus far, its almost like Jiggs vs Peach (Genesis finals anyone?).

 

[JCaesar]

You're using that lousy new channel format. As a person who can't use anything but the wii for online, I can't even look through your videos.

It doesn't work on the Wii browser? Hmm I may change it back then.

 

[Bandit]

I WISH it was as simple as that, but it isn't. He's extremely tricky with the gyro, knows when I'll try to use Nayru's Love, hit me at the end of it.
So... basically just don't approach?
I really think I should stick to Kirby or Tink for this match-up. I don't ever hope to be really good with Sheik. Kirbys been my most consistent plus character thus far, its almost like Jiggs vs Peach (Genesis finals anyone?).

You can't use it recklessly but off the ledge you can see it coming. If he's just camping and waiting then bait the gyro when he shoots it and keep it in front of you. If he is like Caesar, he likes to use his gyro for offense on the ground. F-Smash the gyro when he's close to expand your hit box and make him pay.

A lot of times I shield the gyro and force him to recharge but beware gyro + laser.

You HAVE to approach ROB, but you don't HAVE to attack. Just stay outside of his f-tilt range and bait him to try to attack you.

Also, remember U-Smash beats EVERY rob aerial. He can hit you with fair if he gets below the hit box, but U-Smash will suck him up every time.

 

[BRLNK88]

A lot of times I shield the gyro and force him to recharge but beware gyro + laser.

Actually, he usually doesn't charge the gyro cept between stocks, he'll fling it out uncharged, and it really ****s up my approach. And then he'll grab it and throw it again. And of course I can't grab it till it stops spinning.
Another issue is what to when he regenerates, he knows I'll try to evade with Farore's Wind while he's invincible.

 

[Bandit]

You have to anticipate the gyro, and if it isn't charged, it isn't doing much damage.

When he flings it, you can catch it with an air dodge, deflect it with dtilt or fsmash, shield it, spot dodge it, or you can pick it up with dash attack or standing next to it. It doesn't have to finish spinning at all.

When he dies and comes back, just stay away from him and don't use FW. Just get as much space between you and him. I have gone to the ledge and FW into the ledge until I baited him in. I have just jumped around and air dodged his attacks. Shield his attacks and roll out or punish with U-Smash. The last thing you should do is trust FW to get you out of the situation. You are helpless during the start-up and a Fair magnet.

 

[Alphatron]

It doesn't work on the Wii browser? Hmm I may change it back then.

Yeah, I can view the channel page. But absolutely none of the videos register when I click them.

 

[Reidlos Toof]

Watching you play zelda makes my brain hurt. Either I'm just way better then I give myself credit or else you are awful.

 

[Alphatron]

Post some vids.

 

[Reidlos Toof]

I only have 1 video and its vBrawl. Don't have a capture card.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRra...eo/video.aspx?id=9137&feature=player_embedded

 

[Bandit]

Who exactly were you insulting? I assume it is me since I am the only one who posts vidz in which case I laugh.

That Sheik you faced was awful. Not one grab attempt and he/she is playing sheik? They used side B to recover once when they jumped off the ledge themselves, and you should've been gimped on at least 3 occasions. They rolled constantly and Sheik's roll is not Lucario's so that is a bad idea. And they didn't DI anything right. and didn't get out of any of your smashes.

Basically, the level of competition you have used as an example is really low. Also, I watched his ROB (which you said wrecked you), and I am confident if I were still playing vBrawl, I'd beat that too. Aggressive ROBs get destroyed by Zelda and if you have problems with his spamming of spot dodge then you can't be a Zelda main (big sparkles that last longer than his spot dodge... hmmmm).

I kinda wrote the book on fighting ROB http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6300503&highlight=JCaesar#post6300503 so I would know.

I'm not saying you're bad, but you ought to actually realize my videos are against a top player in the region (one who is better than I am).

I just wouldn't try to fling mud when you're standing in poo. You just end up smelling like it.

If you want, I'm sure there are a ton of people who you could send the videos to and they could upload them to youtube for you. If you go that route, I'd love to see some more only I hope it would be B+ this time. Besides, we need more representation. At the moment, it is just Ryoko and me, but I don't know of any videos of Ryoko since he said that all his are outdated at the moment.

 

[Reidlos Toof]

First off, I suck balls at vBrawl, even more so in that video since it's from December.

Second, if you are saying that you don't think I'm bad, then technically I didn't insult you. I just think I am better then you are. You recover well, my biggest problem being that I get gimped all day, but you really don't use any AT's or read your opponent very well. The thing that was really making my head hurt is that you don't Din Guard your recovery. It really helps a lot, especially since they removed the freefall. I dunno, I may just be biased in my replay watching (I learned Zelda by watching Dark Musician and Maos videos).

 

[JCaesar]

The thing that was really making my head hurt is that you don't Din Guard your recovery. It really helps a lot, especially since they removed the freefall.

There's a reason Bandit rarely does it. Because I punish him for it most of the time. It's really not that good for protecting your recovery since most aerials go right through it.

 

[Alphatron]

The aerial lag from Din's Fire is awful. I almost never do it unless high up. If there's anything Bandit doesn't do, it's teleport cancelling(which is near useless from what I can see) and Love Jumping to aid recovery. Actually, why don't you love jump?

 

[Reidlos Toof]

Teleport canceling is pretty useless in B+ since they sped up the end lag anyway, but din guarding is far more useful than you give it credit for.

 

[BRLNK88]

You have to anticipate the gyro, and if it isn't charged, it isn't doing much damage.

Therein lies the problem, its extremely difficult to anticipate. And then he'll start glide tossing it, and the damage builds. I think a large part of the problem is I just don't have enough people to plus against. The guy I'm talking about lives 15 minutes away, by car, which my parents take both of, (not to mention they greatly disapprove of me spending all my time on a video game). So I can only go to his house once a week to play, and the rest of the time I'm stuck playing CPUs, who you don't have to use any mindgames or tactics to beat.
And wifi is unreliable...
And even while I'm at college, my parents don't let me take my Wii, for the reason stated above, so my opportunities to face actual people are even more limited.
I mean, you can't practice getting back on the stage when there's no one there to send you back off...
So I'm pretty much fighting a constant losing battle. I wanna get better, but there's just too many non-game related hurdles in my way.
And oh yeah, the one person who does live close to me doesn't like playing me anymore cuz I'm too good.

 

[Bandit]

The Foot... you are saying you are better than me because I don't use dins guarding. Really? So, when your opponent fairs through your dins and then fairs you to your death, how is that helping you?

FW Cancelling is flashy and can lead to mistakes. I'll use it to move around if I don't like my spacing or to reset my spacing, but no, I generally don't use it that often. I can do it just fine, but I choose not to use it.

If you find dins guarding useful and you feel that makes you a better player than me, then keep right on thinking that. You have no vidz to back up your trash, so I will ignore your notions until you find a way to get some vidz up showing your skill. Rule #1 on SmashBoards: Vidz or it didn't happen. I put up winning and losing efforts, so where are your vidz? If I were to actually judge you by your words, the fact that you "get gimped all day" means you are not recovering correctly and not a high level yet. Any player who wants to main Zelda should work on perfecting every angle of FW and recognize when they need to not go for the ledge. Zelda is not an easily gimped character unless you only go for the ledge.

----------

To your question Alphatron, I don't love jump because you need to be tumbling to do it, and I usually don't allow myself to stay in that animation. I am usually doing my (useless) vbrawl technique of bairing while getting hit away, and I am almost never in that animation. It's never been in my cabinet of weapons, and the lag from NL could very well end up leaving me pretty vulnerable.

============

BRLNK88... your situation sucks. You should go on the Texas threads on here and find some players in your area. I know Austin has a brawl scene, but I am not sure about brawl+. GreyFox86 was one from the Zelda boards from that area (I believe) that plays brawl+. Now for the ROB advice...

When he goes to glide toss, you can see him start to spin. Shield. Anything he does after that unless he grabs after the throw (which JCaesar started doing) is not going to hurt you. ROB always telegraphs his moves, but you can't avoid everything. Shield as much as you can and reflect the gyro or laser when he tips his hand. The safest thing is to shield. Generally, if you are going to reflect the gyro, you need it to hit him or else you may be punished.

If you are capable or know someone who is capable of putting your video on youtube, you can PM me the link, and I will help with as much as I can see. You can post it here too and get more public criticism/help but that is up to you. I am just leaving the more private option open. If I can see your opponent, I can help you better break him down or come up with a better strategy. If any of this is not an option, feel free to keep posting questions, and I will do my best.

================

There is some new team vidz of my Zelda (teaming with a Lucas & Ness) that were put up a week or two ago, but there are new ones with my new partner, Thunderhorse+ (Falco main), and they are much better. JCaesar will be getting them up in the next week or so. We had a 4 team round robin:

JCaesar (ROB/Squirtle) & G-Regulate (Jiggly/?): 3-0
Chu Dat (Kirby) & Meep (Marth/IC's): 2-1
Me (Zelda/Sheik) & Thunderhorse+ (Falco): 1-2
Waffle (Kirby) & Tantalus (MK): 0-3

The new team worked great as we played both the top teams very tough. We took the 2nd match from Chu & Meep and ran it real close in the 3rd match. JC & G-Reg were on fire all night though we kept it close. I expect better results the next time with this team now that we have more chemistry and full plans to keep this run together. Unfortunately, no singles vidz. I'll be working to get some vidz up soon since the ones on the first page are now a little old.

 

[kciD]

A friend of mine here plays a really good Zelda. I'm going to try to get him into Brawl+ soon, and if so I'll try to get some vids up here. The only thing that may upset him is that you can't do two Fairs or Bairs in one short hop...

 

[Alphatron]

Use a high buffer, I'm pretty sure you still can.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

No, you can't do two bairs in one SH because her SH was lowered. You can Bair and barely double jump out of that as it is.

 

[Bandit]

New team vidz are up of Thunderhorse and me. If you have vidz, please submit them. I want to replace some of mine and we need some diversity and representation.

:bandit:

 

[Katy Parry]

Haha, I would, if I just knew where and how to get/use a capture card.

 

[Finns7]

Do fair and bair instant sweetspot if ou instant arial with them? lets say on chars luigis hieght and up?

 

[Bandit]

Bair can as far as I know but I don't know what characters. Fair can for the biggest characters.

:bandit:

 

[GreyFox86]

Bair can hit anyone from MK size on up from OoS.

Fair can only hit on Bowser, D3, DK, Snake from OoS.

If that's what he is looking for then there ya go.

Also, HI RED BANDIT!!!! :DDD

 

[Revven]

Are you sure that's still the case with the slight size increase to Zelda's Fair?

 

[Bandit]

New Fair the same?

I'm not sure. I have not tested the character sizes except back in vBrawl. I have gotten so used to Bair that I am usually using that, though the bigger characters I know I can use fair more. I know it is a little easier to sweetspot but the problem was that the box was the upper part of the foot for fair, so it was too high to really hit many of the characters. I don't have a wii to test it, so I'll just agree with Grey Fox... and by the way...

HIII GREY FOX!! (I'm back from my hiatus and more active than ever, how are you?)

:bandit:

 

[GreyFox86]

The sizes I listed down are the correct sizes.

As far as B+ Zelda is concerned, if her Fair is as good as her Bair then it should be gravy.

@RB: I'm good. <3 I missed ya buddy. :D

 

[Bandit]

Grey, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuWtofB6B3s

3:32 - 3:38

Dins to Fair awesomeness. I get a little too excited every time I watch it.

You still playing B+? I'm exclusive to it, but I'm showing my face back in the regular boards again and wow has that ever changed.

Fair is close to Bair with ease of sweet spotting but Bair is still quicker.

:bandit:

 

[GreyFox86]

Bair will always be better in the difference.

I play every so often. Not as much really. Yeah same here guy, I hardly go there anymore but it changed up alot. I try not to play Zelda cause for to win you really need to spam a bit. Sorry but that's not my style of play.

Anyways no one plays B+ around here so I'm kinda screwed on competition, but I mostly play Cfal and Fox. =/

With as much stuff as I know about Zelda, it's kinda hard to transfer over. =/

 

[Bandit]

I still play Zelda but I have worked Sheik into my game full-time as she is one of the better characters. I recently picked up Fox and Kirby because of how fun they are to play, and I am mixing in some ROB. I still play Zelda full-time (with a little Sheik) in singles but I hope to work in the other characters soon depending on match-ups.

That sucks about the competition. I guess you are stuck playing online which is never as good.

:bandit:

 

[GreyFox86]

Online and "as" should never be in the same sentence.

Online is trash and that's the end of that.

I do however play Z ditto's so that's something to look forward to. :D

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Can anyone give me tips on how to space fair, dair, and bair? I can only sweetspot, like, once out of 10 times.