Zelda+: OP In-Process of Overhaul as of 04-05-10

[Bandit]

Bandit Presents
Brawl+ Guide, Video Archive & Zelda Chat​

Changes to Zelda in Brawl+ Gold

All information posted until noted will be unofficial listing of the changes in Brawl+ based on my findings.

Spoiler

This will be filled out with the official change list when it is released.

Regular Brawl Frame Data

All data presented here was a collaborative effort from the vBrawl Zeldas and can be found in the Fairy Fountain Thread in the Zelda Boards. This section will be updated when a change list is released or when I put the new pac in BrawlBox and do it myself.

Spoiler

Smashes

FSmash

* Startup: 1 - 15
* Hitbox: 16, 18, 20, 22, 24 (5 hits)
* Cooldown / IASA: 25 - 39, 40 (IASA)
* Knockback: 0% = 49 (non-charged) - 55km/h (charged) / 100% = 119 - 157km/h
* Growth Rate: Non-charged = 35.26 (2468 - 5994) / Charged = 51.38 (2770 - 7908)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

DSmash

* Startup: 1 - 3
* Hitbox: 4 - 5 (Front Hit) / 12 - 14 9 (Back Hit)
* Cooldown / IASA: 15 - 39, 40 (IASA)
* Knockback: 0% = 32 (non-charged) - 39km/h (charged) / 100% = 95 - 124km/h
* Growth Rate: Non-charged = 31.73 (1612 - 4785) / Charged = 42.81 (1964 - 6245)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Usmash

* Startup: 1 - 5
* Hitbox: 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 23, 25, 27, 29, 31 (11 hits)
* Cooldown / IASA: 32 - 56, 57 (IASA)
* Knockback: 0% = 47 (non-charged) - 56km/h (charged) / 100% = 117 - 146km/h
* Growth Rate: Non-charged = 35.26 (2367 - 5893) / Charged = 45.33 (2821 - 7354)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Tilts

Ftilt

* Startup: 1 - 11
* Hitbox: 12 - 14
* Cooldown / IASA: 15 - 39, 40 (IASA)
* Knockback: 0% = 51 / 100% = 114 km/h (mid to tipper range for all angles) // 0% = 48 - 50 / 100% = 103 - 109 km/h (Normal & Downward / Upward angle for the respective 1st and 2nd numbers).
* Growth Rate: 27.7 (2418 - 5188)

* Hitlag: 10
* Shield Hitlag: 10
* Shield Stun: 5
* Disadvantage: -16

Dtilt

* Startup: 1 - 4
* Hitbox: 5 - 11
* Cooldown / IASA: 12 - 24, 25 (IASA)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Utilt

* Startup: 1 - 9
* Hitbox: 10 - 24
* Cooldown / IASA: 25 - 47, 48 (IASA)

* Hitlag: 14
* Shield Hitlag: 14
* Shield Stun: 6
* Disadvantage: -29 (from front)

Other Ground Moves

Jab

* Startup: 1 - 10
* Hitbox: 11, 13, 15 (3 hits)
* Cooldown / IASA: 12 - 24, 25 (IASA)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage: -8

Dash Attack

* Startup: 1 - 5
* Hitbox: 6 - ??
* Cooldown / IASA:

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Standard Grab

* Startup: 1 - 11
* Hitbox: 12 - 13
* Cooldown / IASA: 14 - 29, 30 (IASA)

Dash Grab

* Startup: 1 - 10
* Hitbox: 11 - 12
* Cooldown / IASA: 13 - 39, 40 (IASA)

Pivot Grab

* Startup: 1 - 13
* Hitbox: 14 - 15
* Cooldown / IASA: 16 - 35, 36 (IASA)

Pummel

* Startup: 1 - 6
* Hitbox: 7
* Cooldown / IASA: 8 - 31, 32 (IASA)

Fthrow

* Startup: 1 - 26
* Hitbox: 27
* Cooldown / IASA: 28 - 39, 40 (IASA)

Bthrow

* Startup: 1 - 23
* Hitbox: 24
* Cooldown / IASA: 25 - 39, 40 (IASA)

Dthrow

* Startup: 1 - 24
* Hitbox: 25, 34, 43, 52, 63 (5 hits)
* Cooldown / IASA: 64 - 81, 82 (IASA)

Uthrow

* Startup: 1 - 23
* Hitbox: 24
* Cooldown / IASA: 25 - 39, 40 (IASA)

Aerials

Nair

* Startup: 1 - 5
* Hitbox: 6, ??, ??, ??, ?? (5 hits)
* Cooldown / IASA: 12 - 24, 25 (IASA)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage: -11 (AC Nair on shield and landing straight after)

Fair

* Startup: 1 - 7
* Hitbox: 8
* Cooldown / IASA:
* Knockback: 0% = 53 / 100% = 153 km/h
* Growth Rate: 50.37 (2669 - 7706)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Bair

* Startup: 1 - 4
* Hitbox: 5
* Cooldown / IASA:
* Knockback: 0% = 57 / 100% = 158 km/h
* Growth Rate: 50.87 (2871 - 7958)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Dair

* Startup: 1 - 14
* Hitbox: 15 - 24
* Cooldown / IASA:

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Uair

* Startup: 1 - 13
* Hitbox: 14
* Cooldown / IASA:
* Knockback: 0% = 46 / 100% = 136 km/h
* Growth Rate: 45.33 (2317 - 6850)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Specials

Nayru's Love

* Startup: 1 - 4
* Hitbox: 13, 16, 19, 22, 25, 28 (6 hits)
* Cooldown / IASA: 29 - 59, 60 (IASA)
* Invincibility: 5 - 11
* Reflection: 5 - 44

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Din's Fire

* Startup: 1 - 30
* Hitbox: 31 - 32 (Instant Detonation)
* Cooldown / IASA: 33 - 56, 57 (IASA)
* Solo Fireball: 1 - 8 (startup), 9 (hitbox)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Transformation

* Startup:
* Hitbox:
* Cooldown / IASA:

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Farore's Wind

* Part 1 Startup: 1 - 10
* Hitbox: 11 - 12
* Cooldown / IASA: 13 - 33

* Part 2 Startup: 0
* Hitbox: 1 - 2
* Cooldown / IASA: 3 - 29, 30 (IASA)

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Misc.

Ledge Attack < 100%

* Startup: 1 - 26
* Hitbox: 27
* Cooldown / IASA:

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Ledge Attack > 100%

* Startup: 1 - 33
* Hitbox: 34
* Cooldown / IASA:

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Tech Roll Attack

* Startup:
* Hitbox:
* Cooldown / IASA:

* Hitlag:
* Shield Hitlag:
* Shield Stun:
* Disadvantage:

Shield / Shield Drop

* Startup: 1 (to shield) / 7 (to drop)

Roll Forward / Backward

* Startup: 1 - 3
* Invincibility: 4 - 19
* Cooldown / IASA: 20 - 31, 32 (IASA)

Spotdodge

* Startup: 1
* Invincibility: 2 - 20
* Cooldown / IASA: 21 - 25, 26 (IASA)

Airdodge

* Startup: 1 - 3
* Invincibility: 4 - 29
* Cooldown / IASA: 30 - 49, 50 (IASA)

Regular Brawl Hit Bubble Data

Battletanx_Commander's Hit Bubble Study of vBrawl Zelda

Spoiler

This thread will serve as a collective base for all things pertaining to Zelda's hitbubbles.​

Here is the download link for the .pac. FitZelda.pac
NOTE!: To activate the hitbubbles you must press Dtaunt and to deactivate them press Uptaunt.

Additional screenshots courtesy of KayLo!. http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8904458&postcount=61

Index​

• Grabs
• Ground Attacks
• Aerials
• Specials
• Ledge Attack

Grabs

Standing Grab

Running Grab

Pivot Grab

Ground Attacks

Jab

Dtilt

Ftilt

It is the same angled up or down.

Utilt
First Part

Maximum length vertically.

Last part

Fsmash

Occurs four more times with the last hit being the knockback.

Dsmash

First Hit

Second Hit

Usmash

Occurs ten more times then a knockback hit. Could not find a way to stop the hitbubbles from appearing during the first and second interval of the attack. Recently found out how to fix it. :V

Dash Attack

First Part

Second part

Aerials

Nair

Occurs four more times with the last hit being the kockback.

Dair

First part has the sweetspot hitbubble.

Second part with the weak hitbubble.

Fair

Sweetspot is in the last hitbubble.

Bair

Sweetspot is in the last hitbubble.

Uair

Specials

UpB

Ending is the same.

B

Occurs four more times.

Knockback Hitbubble

Ledge Attacks

Less then 100%

Greater then 100%

Yay for another simple one. :V

KayLo!'s Hit Bubble Study of vBrawl Zelda

Spoiler

Shows some hitboxes not included in the OP.

Shots taken wide with Marth for size comparison.

Jab

Initial hitboxes:

Final hitbox:

Dash Attack

Part 1:

Part 2:

Dtilt

Ftilt

Part 1:

Part 2:

Utilt

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Dsmash

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Part 4:

Fsmash

Initial hitboxes:

Final hitbox:

Usmash

Initial hitboxes:

Final hitbox:

Nair

Initial hitboxes:

Final hitbox:

Fair
*Note how the hitbox contracts*

Part 1:

Part 2:

Bair

Part 1:

Part 2:

Uair

Dair

Part 1 (sweetspot):

Part 2 (sourspot):

Naryu's Love

Initial hitboxes:

Final hitbox:

Farore's Wind

Part 1:

Part 2:

Standing Grab

Dash Grab

Pivot Grab

Ledge Attack (<100%)

Part 1:

Part 2:

Ledge Attack (>100%)

Part 1:

Part 2:

:bandit:

 

[Bandit]

Bandit Presents
Brawl+ Video Archive & Match-Up Discussion​

1v1

Character With Character Head Shot

Video Links

Strategies

Spoiler

Information about match-up

2v2

Team Listing

Video Links to Team

Strategies

Spoiler

Strategy presented by team

:bandit:

 

[Bandit]

Bandit Presents
Brawl+ Combos & Informative Move Discussion​

Combos

Opponent's % Level

Combo

Video Link

Setups

Spoiler

Strategical use of combo

Move Discussion

Move Category

Move

Video Link showing move use

Strategies

Spoiler

Description of strategical use

:bandit:

 

[JCaesar]

Zelda is so **** in Brawl+

 

[Oh Snap]

*hope I'm not taking up reserved posts*

Nice! It's about time somebody posted something about Zelda in Brawl+

I'm curious...in what ways is Zelda buffed/nerfed in +?
cos when I look at the vids, her Usmash looks easier to DI out of >.<

 

[Kataefi]

Amazing!

And also... she can truly combo into Uair. It's ridiculously good.

At 50%... do a dash attack and hit with the close hitbox to send them upwards. Then chase and uair them. Works with USmash as well.

You get INSANELY early kills! Also at any point you land dtilt you can combo into anything relatively fast I think due to the hitstun increase!

 

[illinialex24]

Yeah Brawl + is awesome, but its so much different.

 

[Bandit]

*hope I'm not taking up reserved posts*

Nice! It's about time somebody posted something about Zelda in Brawl+

I'm curious...in what ways is Zelda buffed/nerfed in +?
cos when I look at the vids, her Usmash looks easier to DI out of >.<

There is no buffer system at all, so it operates like melee in that way. The game is faster, and it makes Zelda faster. There is auto L-canceling which means your aerials all auto-cancel with little to no lag when you land. Also, there is a big increase in hit stun and there is shield stun.

With all that said, Zelda is a comboing beast in Brawl+. I have done inescapable zero to 30%, 40%, 50%, and 60% on a lot of the cast. F-Smash to U-Smash to LK = 52% and I have done this to a lot of the cast of different weights and heights. That is just an example. I might use the 3rd post for combos that are discovered.

 

[JCaesar]

I have to say, playing against Zelda all the time is tough. She can combo almost every character 0-50 with ease, most of her moves do 15-20 a piece, and then she can blow you away with ANY of her directional aerials, which can all be comboed into, and even if she misses that she still kills you at 100 with an easy to land usmash. WTF???

Also, her fireball is so ridiculously good in Brawl+. It's hard to avoid and shuts down so many options and approaches, not to mention it does craploads of damage and combos into uair.

 

[luvs2pluck]

I started using Zelda today, definitely really fun. Some good combo's Ive found so far are:

Dthrow > Tipped Ftilt > Usmash

aslo Dthrow > LK is a true combo on pretty much everyone, and even works over 100% (it can be tricky to land because you have to read the DI, but is still combo-able no matter where they go). This is very similar to Captain Falcons Dthrow > Knee finisher

 

[Bandit]

DThrow is DI'ed away from Zelda when DI'ed properly which does not allow for any other follow up other than maybe Dash Attack.

 

[Villi]

Yeah, dthrow is unfortunately easy to DI on reaction. Otherwise, bthrow would be a much better mix-up. Is Din's fast enough to combo?

 

[Bandit]

Dins is not fast enough to combo out of throws, but it is great to harass with. I'm not sure what changed about dins, but it is very difficult to deal with at times. Dins combos to UAir constantly, and because of hit stun, you can do dins --> dins --> dins --> etc if you are closer.

I am not saying to rely on it, but it definitely able to be used a lot more. I follow up any separation with it just to keep up the pressure.

Update: 12 vidz total have been uploaded. More to come soon enough.

 

[Revven]

There is no buffer system at all

Actually, this isn't true, we lowered the frames of buffering to 2 so you can still do instant aerials (like Ganondorf's thunderstorming or Sonic's Fair). The frames are low enough so they don't get in the way and you're in more control of your character while still retaining some buffer strategies (like Wario's Dthrow to jab or Dthrow > Dthrow on certain characters).

<3ing this thread though.

 

[Bandit]

Well, then I am mistaken but the transition will leave people feeling like there isn't.

Side note: How come you guys weren't up for playing Wifi the other night with me and JCaesar, falco? You guys could be up there in the teams post getting combo'd by my fairy dust.

 

[Kataefi]

Falco400... I have just 2 requests for brawl+ Zelda... is there any chance you could make her teleport slightly faster on startup... and also is there anyway to not make din's fire paralyse her in the air after using it once?

Otherwise... I seriously think she's fine as she is. Comboing into a lightning kick or a uair is pure win IMO.

****it my videos keep desyncing =( I had matches against Falco, Link and Marth!

 

[Bandit]

Make sure you have the same brawl+ that you did when you recorded them. Otherwise, it will throw off the replays.

I can't wait to see them Kat!

 

[Revven]

Falco400... I have just 2 requests for brawl+ Zelda... is there any chance you could make her teleport slightly faster on startup... and also is there anyway to not make din's fire paralyse her in the air after using it once?

Otherwise... I seriously think she's fine as she is. Comboing into a lightning kick or a uair is pure win IMO.

****it my videos keep desyncing =( I had matches against Falco, Link and Marth!

We were already deciding to get rid of the stupid special fall animation that happens after Din's Fire. As for her Up B recovery having faster startup, I'll ask about it, but no guarantee.

Well, then I am mistaken but the transition will leave people feeling like there isn't.

The reason why it may feel like it's not there is because some times if you try to do an instant aerial too soon, the game won't register it and you won't do anything (which is why Ganon's thunderstorming is a bit harder now). We plan on having a handicap like buffer, where the handicap option matches the amount of frames of buffering you want, so buffering in effect would be customizable.

Side note: How come you guys weren't up for playing Wifi the other night with me and JCaesar, falco? You guys could be up there in the teams post getting combo'd by my fairy dust.

Well, not EVERYBODY plays on WiFi in the IRC. I can think of about five to ten people that do and some of them were gone and a few of them were already playing matches. As for myself, I lacked a doubles partner, much less do I have one at home haha.

 

[Bandit]

Well, not EVERYBODY plays on WiFi in the IRC. I can think of about five to ten people that do and some of them were gone and a few of them were already playing matches. As for myself, I lacked a doubles partner, much less do I have one at home haha.

It's all good. JCaes is my best friend and hangs out often, and we were looking to get some team action going. If you know anyone who wants to play sometime, then maybe we can get something setup.

Also, there is some Brawl+ side tourneys showing up in MD/VA now. Thought you would like that.

Lastly, awesome about Dins.

 

[Bandit]

Thanks to dash canceling in B+ (you crouch), Zelda can now do running Dtilts. Dtilt has is still a fantastic setup move since it pops opponents up to guaranteed Usmash or Utilt at the higher percents.

I have found Dash attack is almost as good for getting setups as well. In the mid 50% on an opponent, I have found Dash Attack --> UAir works frequently. When the opponent gets towards kill percentage, the front hit box of dash attack has great horizontal knockback that setups up for edge guarding. Typically, I am found attempting spikes, but since UpB's don't sweetspot the ledge, Dsmash is fantastic killer when guarding the edge.

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah she's just so good! And uair doesn't stale and practically the majority of things combo into it lol!

Also!!! from today we can't double post (including myself also!!) =( But Red because you're post had a lot of meaningful info then I'll just informally warn everyone for now.. but if you need to double post, try and get someone else to post in it before you or edit your last post xD We could use the community centre to do this!

 

[Bandit]

That sounds like a plan. I honestly didn't even look to see if I was the last post or not but it'll work out.

*I am working on Combo Section currently* Check back to see different combos I have encountered so far.

I will post the percentages of how much each combo does soon. If it doesn't happen today, it probably won't happen until next week sometime.

 

[Hentekorino]

Wait, are these in 3.3 or above?
Just wanna know so that I can put the vids. in my thread. :3

 

[JCaesar]

They're all 3.4

 

[Bandit]

Thanks for the tip off JCaez. I forgot to mention that in my post.

We will be getting 4.0 vidz up soon.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Probably not the right place for this, but RedBandit, you REALLY need to practice your edge-guarding.

 

[Bandit]

I would appreciate that you at least give suggestions or point out better options instead of just emphasizing the word "really."

That is not suppose to sound defensive or cynical. I just would expect people to give constructive criticism instead of saying "play better" especially regarding my Sheik which is a complete work in progress. I just started to really work on her recently.

FYI - Sheik has been nerfed in 4.0. Her Ftilt does not lock beyond two hits at most.

 

[IC3R]

Holy cow...

JCaesar's R.O.B. is a MONSTER O_________O

 

[JCaesar]

Thanks brah. Been my main since Brawl came out.

 

[Bandit]

First tourney results for Brawl+ posted:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227653

JCaesar, who is pretty frequented in the first post (ha!) got 2nd, and I going all Zelda got 7th. It was a 16 man field, but it featured some good playing and good names. A lot of people were playing Brawl+ for the first time and loving it. Of course, we were doing it the night before a HUGE East Coast tourney, but it was fun. Also, it was just for pride and for people to try the game.

My Personal Results:
Beat Charles/Hat (Diddy) 2-0
Lost to Forte (Link) 0-2 (Each match was down to last stock, and by far my best set)
Beat theDoom (Fox/Sheik) 2-0
Lost to BMX (Wario) 0-2

As you can see, I don't know the definition of "middle ground."

I wish the matches had been saved, so I could add them to the original post.

 

[Kataefi]

This thread is looking really good! I love the combo listing!

I've been messing around with brawl+ some more and I think you can sneak in 2 dtilts out of hitstun and combo into a usmash straight after.

You can also do something really cheap - Immediately usmash them at 0%. Depending on their weight and fall speed you can normally chain 5 usmashes off the bat for 50% damage!

 

[JCaesar]

A couple new vids:
JCaesar (Link) vs Red Bandit (Zelda)
JCaesar (Wolf) vs Red Bandit (Sheik)

Zelda's nair is so gaaaaaay...

 

[IC3R]

Zelda's nair is so gaaaaaay...

<3 Zelda's N-Air ^________^


Hey, R3dBandit, what Zelda skin is that? She looks like an Asian schoolgirl.

 

[GodAtHand]

Brawl + Disposes of Zelda's extra drama frames on Lightning kicks... This upsets me...

I might be able to try brawl + soon at a tournament so I will post my impressions here once I try!

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah it doesn't have that ooopmh to it anymore. It's the same strength though I believe. I'm still on the version used before beta 4.0, but Bandit I think you should cheaply chain USmashes together at early percents, and dtilt more often, as this leads into practically anything now (no longer keeps them grounded, it should pop them up now with extra stun time).

I LOVE the texture on her. She looks amazing!

 

[GreyFox86]

Lol, Kata I will agree with you on the textures.

CC wins life for all time.

 

[Kataefi]

Brawl + is growing significantly. It was discussed and now characters are going to be getting their own sub-forums for competitive play and discussion. It's necessary that I now move this thread here: http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=221

Continue talking everyone!

I just want to add, the ability to combo into uair is AMAZING!

 

[Sukai]

Hey, can you guys get some vids of 4.0/4.1 Brawl+ for my Guide.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230316
Suggestions and Contributions are encouraged.

 

[JCaesar]

I'll try to get some newer 4.1 vids with Bandit's Zelda this weekend.

 

[GHNeko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMWGQHyzALo


LOL ZELDA.