YOUR opinion on Ganondorf's match-ups.

[Ray_Kalm]

I've seen alot of other boards do this, and so can we!

Okay, basically just write your opinions on Ganondorf's match-ups. Also, I only want the common people who either browse or post here to submit their opinion.

Here are the originals:

S Tier

Metaknight: 15:85
Snake: 05:95
Wario: 20:80
Falco: 05:95
Diddy Kong: 10:90
King Dedede: 10:90

A Tier

Marth: 15:85
Mr. Game & Watch: 20:80
Pikachu: 15:85
Olimar: 0:100
Ice Climbers: 0:100
R.O.B : 25:75
Kirby: 35:65

B Tier

Lucario: 25:75
Zero Suit Samus: 30:70
Toon Link: 30:70
Pit: 25:75
Donkey Kong: 35:65

C Tier

Peach: 25:75
Luigi: 30:70
Fox: 25:75
Wolf: 30:70
Sonic: 40:60
Sheik: 0:100

D Tier

Bowser: 40:60
Zelda: 35:65
Pokemon Trainer: 35:65
Ike: 35:65

E Tier

Lucas: 35:65
Mario: 35:65
Ness: 35:65
Yoshi: 15:85
Samus: 20:80

F Tier

Jigglypuff: 40:60
Captain Falcon: 40:60
Link: 35:65

Ganondorf: 50:50

And for the lulz

Solo Popo: ??:??

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

(Don't worry, I use Ganon sometimes for the lulz)

I think these matchups are right. The D3 one could be worse but I'm probably overexaggerating the chaingrab. I'm also curious on Ike. You skipped B Tier.

 

[DunnoBro]

I'd say the bowser matchup is more even.
i know most bowsers consider it even, at least going by what kagato told me about thw SWF. And when i play them as ganon it sure feels even.

 

[Noobicidal]

I've seen alot of other boards do this, and so can we!

Okay, basically just write your opinions on Ganondorf's match-ups. Also, I only want the common people who either browse and/or post (on) this board to post.

Here are the originals:

S Tier

Metaknight: 10:90 25:75
Snake: 05:95 15:85
Wario: 20:80 25:75
Falco: 05:95
Diddy Kong: 10:90 25:75
King Dedede: 10:90

A Tier

Marth: 15:85
Mr. Game & Watch: 20:80
Pikachu: 15:85
Olimar: 0:100 15:85
Ice Climbers: 0:100
R.O.B : 25:75
Kirby: 35:65 45:55

B Tier

Lucario: 25:75 30:70
Zero Suit Samus: 30:70
Toon Link: 30:70
Pit: 25:75
Donkey Kong: 35:65 40:60

C Tier

Peach: 25:75
Luigi: 30:70
Fox: 25:75 35:65
Wolf: 30:70
Sonic: 40:60
Sheik: 0:100 10:90

D Tier

Bowser: 40:60
Zelda: 35:65
Pokemon Trainer: 35:65 40:60
Ike: 35:65

E Tier

Lucas: 35:65
Mario: 35:65
Ness: 35:65
Yoshi: 15:85 30:70
Samus: 20:80

F Tier

Jigglypuff: 40:60
Captain Falcon: 40:60
Link: 35:65

Ganondorf: 50:50

And for the lulz

Solo Popo: ??:?? 0:100

Changes in purple. Most are slight at best.

 

[:034:]

Might as well..

S Tier

Metaknight: 20:80
Snake: 25:75
Wario: 30:70
Falco: 20:80
Diddy Kong: 20:80
King Dedede: 30:70

A Tier

Marth: 25:75
Mr. Game & Watch: 30:70
Pikachu: 25:75
Olimar: 20:80
Ice Climbers: 05:95
R.O.B : 30:70
Kirby: 35:65

B Tier

Lucario: 30:70
Zero Suit Samus: 30:70
Toon Link: 30:70
Pit: 30:70
Donkey Kong: 35:65

C Tier

Peach: 25:75
Luigi: 35:65
Fox: 30:70
Wolf: 35:65
Sonic: 50:50
Sheik: 30:70

D Tier

Bowser: 50:50
Zelda: 40:60
Pokemon Trainer: 35:65
Ike: 35:65

E Tier

Lucas: 35:65
Mario: 35:65
Ness: 35:65
Yoshi: 30:70
Samus: 20:80

F Tier

Jigglypuff: 35:65
Captain Falcon: 45:55
Link: 40:60

Ganondorf: 100:0

Solo Popo: 9000:1

 

[TheMike]

S Tier

Metaknight: 15:85
Snake: 20:70
Wario: 30:70
Falco: 15:85
Diddy Kong: 20:80
King Dedede: 25:75


A Tier

Marth: 25:75
Mr. Game & Watch: 30:70
Pikachu: 25:75
Olimar: 25:75
Ice Climbers: 00:100
R.O.B : 25:75
Kirby: 30:70

B Tier

Lucario: 25:75
Zero Suit Samus: 30:70
Toon Link: 30:70
Pit: 25:75
Donkey Kong: 35:65

C Tier

Peach: 25:75
Luigi: 30:70
Fox: 35:65
Wolf: 35:65
Sonic: 40:60
Sheik: 00:100

D Tier

Bowser: 40:60
Zelda: 35:65
Pokemon Trainer: 40:60
Ike: 40:60

E Tier

Lucas: 35:65
Mario: 30:70
Ness: 35:65
Yoshi: 35:65
Samus: 25:75

F Tier

Jigglypuff: 40:60
Captain Falcon: 50:50
Link: 40:60
Ganondorf: 50:50

SoPo(Solo Popo): 95:05

 

[TP]

Don't forget the Nolimar matchup. -30:130 His favor.

 

[Z1GMA]

S Tier

Metaknight: 10:90
Snake: 05:95 15:85
Wario: 20:80
Falco: 05:95 0:100
Diddy Kong: 10:90 15:85
King Dedede: 10:90 15:85

A Tier

Marth: 15:85
Mr. Game & Watch: 20:80
Pikachu: 15:85 20:80
Olimar: 0:100
Ice Climbers: 0:100
R.O.B : 25:75
Kirby: 35:65 20:80

B Tier

Lucario: 25:75 20:80
Zero Suit Samus: 30:70
Toon Link: 30:70 20:80
Pit: 25:75 30:70
Donkey Kong: 35:65 30:70

C Tier

Peach: 25:75
Luigi: 30:70 25:75
Fox: 25:75 30:70
Wolf: 30:70
Sonic: 40:60 45:55
Sheik: 0:100

D Tier

Bowser: 40:60 35:65
Zelda: 35:65
Pokemon Trainer: 35:65
Ike: 35:65 32½:67½ (lulz)

E Tier

Lucas: 35:65 30:70
Mario: 35:65 30:70
Ness: 35:65
Yoshi: 15:85 20:80
Samus: 20:80

F Tier

Jigglypuff: 40:60 35:65
Captain Falcon: 40:60 50:50
Link: 35:65

Ganondorf: 50:50 1337:1337

And for the lulz

Solo Popo: ??:?? 70:30

............................................

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Guys, Metaknight is alot easier than Snake, I don't know why some of you are making him seem harder <_<.

But, eh, your opinion's your opinion.

 

[Z1GMA]

*EDIT'ed above post.

 

[A2ZOMG]

S Tier

Metaknight: 15/85 (seriously, I dare you to get past Metaknight's F-tilt)
Snake: 35/65 (Yeah, you get camped, but you can at least clank with his stuff)
Wario: 25/75
Falco: 3/7 (Seriously, this matchup is nowhere nearly as bad as people are making it out. It sucks a lot yes, but it's not 100/0 Falco. The CG to spike is very easy to avoid, and Falco really can't kill you if you're just defending against him. The only reason it's even so bad is just because of laser camping, but everything else he has is not that impressive)
Diddy Kong: 3/7
King Dedede: 35/65 (King DDD really can't do anything to you in general if you're playing conservatively. He has to bait you into getting hit, so fundamentally, he's much more punishable than most high tiers before he gets the grab. N-air is also semi-spammable against him)

A Tier

Marth: 2/8
Mr. Game & Watch: 2/8
Pikachu: 3/7
Olimar: 2/8
Ice Climbers: 0/100
R.O.B : 25/75
Kirby: 4/6

B Tier

Lucario: 15/85 (this matchup is exactly the same as vs G&W except you don't get choke followups, and he lives longer, and has Aura)
Zero Suit Samus: 3/7
Toon Link: 35/65
Pit: 25/75
Donkey Kong: 4/6

C Tier

Peach: 3/7
Luigi: 45/55 (you can do stuff that is safe on block against Luigi, and his camping is kinda a joke)
Fox: 4/6 (This character sucks. He can't do anything safe except for laser camp at long distances. This plays right into Ganon's shieldcamp game whenever he wants to do real damage)
Wolf: 3/7
Sonic: 4/6
Sheik: 5/95

D Tier

Bowser: 45/55
Zelda: 35/65
Pokemon Trainer: 35/65
Ike: 45/55

E Tier

Lucas: 45/55
Mario: 35/65
Ness: 45/55
Yoshi: 3/7
Samus: 2/8

F Tier

Jigglypuff: 35/65
Captain Falcon: 5/5
Link: 35/65

Ganondorf: MURDER

Solo Popo: 6/4
Solimar: 7/3

 

[Clai]

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=38710

I'm sorry. I had to. You can't argue with Albert L.

I'm not posting my view of the matchups in here because I'm obviously going to be flamed. Ganondorf doesn't have it nearly as bad as people make it out to be (although Sheik, IC's and Olimar are still lol100-0).

 

[Denti]

S Tier

Metaknight: 15:85
Snake: 10:90
Wario: 20:80
Falco: 2:98
Diddy Kong: 5:95
King Dedede: 10:90

A Tier

Marth: 10:90
Mr. Game & Watch: 20:80
Pikachu: 25:75
Olimar: 05:95
Ice Climbers: 1:99
R.O.B : 20:80
Kirby: 35:65

B Tier

Lucario: 20:80
Zero Suit Samus: 25:75
Toon Link: 35:65
Pit: 30:7
Donkey Kong: 35:65

C Tier

Peach: 30:70
Luigi: 35:65
Fox: 25:75
Wolf: 25:75
Sonic: 40:60
Sheik: 5:95

D Tier

Bowser: 40:60
Zelda: 35:65
Pokemon Trainer: 35:65
Ike: 30:65

E Tier

Lucas: 35:65
Mario: 40:65
Ness: 35:65
Yoshi: 15:85
Samus: 25:80

F Tier

Jigglypuff: 40:60
Captain Falcon: 45:60
Link: 35:65

Ganondorf: 50:50

I don't know why, but the way i feel when i play as ganon dorf, his disadvantages don't matter as much as they should because all i need them to do is fall for one stupid thing or 2 stupid things and i have them in my hands! buwahahahaha!!!!!!!! and i seriously mean that, when i secondary ganon i alow my opponent to feel to powerful in this match up then BAM, i feel like ganon's disadvantages are his strength, Dair Murder Choke, and F Tilt and Down Tilt are pretty grand ;D


about the match ups i was generous in how i feel about the match ups, when i play campers as ganon i feel like i have a SUPEr disadvantage so i weighted it more in campers favor like falco and what not i dont believe in 0-100 match ups, i believe in 1-99 hahahaha!!!

 

[Lex Crunch]

Ganon vs. Snack is really not as bad as most people think. I think it's more accurately about 30:70, Snack's favor. Snack doesn't necessarily have very many gimping options, and his regular defensive game can oft be thrown off by a simple gesture of a few Murder Chokes. It's not at all good, but it most certainly isn't 5:95

 

[Z1GMA]

It seems the majority of you guys haven't played a Snake that abuses his Grab Release...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

It seems the majority of you guys haven't played a Snake that abuses his Grab Release...

Or a Snake that knows the he's everything that Ganon is, but 2x better.

 

[Lex Crunch]

It seems the majority of you guys haven't played a Snake that abuses his Grab Release...

Anything better than a Grab Release to a Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, or cooked Grenade? If not, then I have.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Anything better than a Grab Release to a Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, or cooked Grenade? If not, then I have.

lmao is that girl in your pic getting gang banged >.<

 

[fonzi21]

Even though you may think these match up ratio's are ******** they are solely my opinion, and I can't exactly explain what I do in matches (I can try to explain if you want on AIM The12fonz21). I am not trying to be rude or boast I am merely stating my thoughts on match ups, which is what you asked for. I also only posted the ones that I think were way out of proportion or really caught my eye. Match ups are about knowledge not necessarily numbers =D.

S Tier[/B]

Metaknight: 35:65
Snake: 35:65
Wario: 50:50
Falco: 35:65
Diddy Kong: 40:60
King Dedede: 25:75

A Tier

Marth: 40:60
Mr. Game & Watch: 45:55
Olimar: 40:60
Ice Climbers: 30:70
R.O.B : 45:55
Kirby: 45:55

B Tier

Lucario: 35:65

C Tier

Sheik: 40:60


E Tier

Yoshi: 40:60
Samus: 20:80

 

[smashkng]

Anything better than a Grab Release to a Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, or cooked Grenade? If not, then I have.

I think he han only grab release to ftilt or utilt if you haven't removed the recovery landing lag glitch. But I think Snake can still grab with boost grab or dash attack Ganon even without it.

 

[DLA]

0:100 matchups exist, but it's not exacty 0:100, because it's never impossible to win. It's more like that Ganon's chance rounds to 0%, and his opponent's chance to win rounds up to 100%.

Anyways, I feel that the original matchup chart is accurate.

 

[thexsunrosered]

lmao **** fonz wario ftw

 

[fonzi21]

I personally think Wario is a lot of fun to fight lol.

 

[Z1GMA]

Anything better than a Grab Release to a Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, or cooked Grenade? If not, then I have.

Well...
How about:

Grab Release -> Regrab -> Grab Release -> Regrab -> Grab Release -> Boost Grab, til like 130%, and then he finish us of with Utilt? ;\

 

[smashkng]

I think Wario is actually 90-10 Wario. He can chain grab Ganon til 90% and can air camp to be unreachable for most characters (running out the time), which obviously Ganon is included there.

 

[Lex Crunch]

Well...
How about:

Grab Release -> Regrab -> Grab Release -> Regrab -> Grab Release -> Boost Grab, til like 130%, and then he finish us of with Utilt? ;\

Sounds scary. I'll ask Syx to have that tried on me later to see how bad/possible that really is.

lmao is that girl in your pic getting gang banged >.<

No, she's getting waterboarded or something by some insane screaming naked lesbian who also happens to be stretching her face.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Ganondorf's match-ups are all

If you lose, no one gives a ****. If you win, you look amazing.

 

[Brinzy]

Can I ask why the Sonic matchup isn't considered so bad?

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Ouch... my eyes... my poor poor eyes..

 

[Lex Crunch]

Can I ask why the Sonic matchup isn't considered so bad?

Because you thought the existence of a good Ganon was crazy? Whoo whee, it's about as hard to find a good Sonic in the poostorm of awful fanboy mains, and either of the two said "good" mains encountering and fighting in person is less likely to happen than the release of a good Sonic game.

Simply put, not enough if any good Ganons have fought enough if any good Sonics to really be all that accurate, so the statistic is formulated more from theoretical data. At least, that's my hypothesis...

 

[smashkng]

Probably because of Sonic's poor priority and extreme difficulty landing a killing move it's not so hard.

 

[PhantomX]

I still honestly think Ganon vs. Ike is at worst 55:45 in Ike's favor... and don't tell me I don't play good Ikes, b/c I play with theeboredone, and he's one of the best.

 

[PK-ow!]

I still honestly think Ganon vs. Ike is at worst 55:45 in Ike's favor... and don't tell me I don't play good Ikes, b/c I play with theeboredone, and he's one of the best.

What do you do when he just Jabz Moar?



Anyway, I don't see Sonic being very bad in truth. The way Sonic overcomes his own, fairly ****ing, weaknesses, is in such a way that he has to come up to Ganon in a way Ganon actually likes.

Yes, occasionally, you'll get dash attacked for free, but Sonic for us has the plus that he has no free juggle combo. His utilt can't do that, and his U-airs are something he "pays for at retail," if that makes any sense.

Sonic has a very normal jab combo, an extremely slow and punishable ftilt (really; if you haven't actually used Sonic, you probably underestimate the lag on that thing), and rather low range. If Ganon knows his stuff, he knows when Sonic has priority and when he doesn't, and you just have to not challenge Sonic when he does.

ON THE OTHER HAND, Sonic does pick up really stupid stuff he can do to us - including, well, dumb F-air pressure, and I can only assume some annoying setups for damage strings at low percents with Spin Shots and so on. But really.... Sonic is a character whose quirky attributes have precisely deprived him of the sorts of things that Ganon really really hates, making this play like some kind of sane matchup, in a sane world.

Ooh, and gimps. Recover high, and he'll be way more scared of you than you should be of him.


This could actually get good, guys. I just wish I could play the Sonics I wifi against, 'cause apparently they're kinda good.


fonz, have you seen a Yoshi in Brawl? They don't give us 40:60. Or perhaps you're not aware of the indefinite chain grab he has on us.

 

[Conspiricy]

S Tier

Metaknight: 15:85
Snake: 05:95 40:60
Wario: 20:80
Falco: 05:95
Diddy Kong: 10:90
King Dedede: 10:90

A Tier

Marth: 15:85 30:70
Mr. Game & Watch: 20:80
Pikachu: 15:85
Olimar: 0:100
Ice Climbers: 0:100
R.O.B : 25:75
Kirby: 35:65 40:60

B Tier

Lucario: 25:75
Zero Suit Samus: 30:70
Toon Link: 30:70
Pit: 25:75
Donkey Kong: 35:65

C Tier

Peach: 25:75
Luigi: 30:70
Fox: 25:75 29:71
Wolf: 30:70
Sonic: 40:60
Sheik: 0:100 10:90

D Tier

Bowser: 40:60
Zelda: 35:65
Pokemon Trainer: 35:65
Ike: 35:65 45:55

E Tier

Lucas: 35:65
Mario: 35:65 20:80
Ness: 35:65
Yoshi: 15:85 10:90
Samus: 20:80

F Tier

Jigglypuff: 40:60
Captain Falcon: 40:60 60:40
Link: 35:65

Ganondorf: 50:50

 

[PhantomX]

What do you do when he just Jabz Moar?

If he gets in my comfort zone I roll away or behind. Generally I attempt to powershield them, b/c, honestly, they have no other options. Out of powershield you can grab. You can side b superarmor their jabs too, or dair them, and both of those setup for ****. And then there's so many ways to gimp Ike. Besides, Ike isn't one of those characters that's hard to keep a good distance away.

 

[fonzi21]

fonz, have you seen a Yoshi in Brawl? They don't give us 40:60. Or perhaps you're not aware of the indefinite chain grab he has on us.

One of my best friends mains Yoshi and plays him in tournaments, and yes I know what they say Yoshi can do, I have played other Yoshi players as well. I know about Dragonic trotting to down smash and such.

This is a video I created from testing against Yoshi, you don't have to believe it but I think it's worth looking at it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oietntojuXE

 

[A2ZOMG]

What do you do when he just Jabz Moar?

Don't let him get away with Jabbing. Space tilts and aerials outside of his Jab range as they will beat his Jab. Try to also edgeguard him before he gets to use Aether, or Up-B him out of it to gimp him.

Now that I think about it, I pretty much agree with PhantomX that Ike is really a close matchup. Ike like Ganondorf is destroyed by shieldcamping, and most of his stuff can be powershielded on reaction easily since outside of Jab, grab, and B-air, he really doesn't have anything that starts up in less than 13 frames. He is after all a bottom tier character, and I am expecting that he's going to take another drop on the tier list.

As for Sonic, he's another character who you can shieldcamp pretty easily, since he has no legitimate way to kill anyone who shieldcamps due to all of his kill moves sucking a lot in general in terms of power and speed.

 

[smashkng]

S Tier

Metaknight: 15:85
Snake: 05:95 40:60
Wario: 20:80
Falco: 05:95
Diddy Kong: 10:90
King Dedede: 10:90

A Tier

Marth: 15:85 30:70
Mr. Game & Watch: 20:80
Pikachu: 15:85
Olimar: 0:100
Ice Climbers: 0:100
R.O.B : 25:75
Kirby: 35:65 40:60

B Tier

Lucario: 25:75
Zero Suit Samus: 30:70
Toon Link: 30:70
Pit: 25:75
Donkey Kong: 35:65

C Tier

Peach: 25:75
Luigi: 30:70
Fox: 25:75 29:71
Wolf: 30:70
Sonic: 40:60
Sheik: 0:100 10:90

D Tier

Bowser: 40:60
Zelda: 35:65
Pokemon Trainer: 35:65
Ike: 35:65 45:55

E Tier

Lucas: 35:65
Mario: 35:65 20:80
Ness: 35:65
Yoshi: 15:85 10:90
Samus: 20:80

F Tier

Jigglypuff: 40:60
Captain Falcon: 40:60 60:40
Link: 35:65

Ganondorf: 50:50

Snake is a horrible matchup. I've tested and camping just makes it very hard.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

For once, I'd have to agree with Smashkng.

If anyone thinks Snake is better than 90:10, then you probably haven't fought a good one.

He outclasses Ganon in every single aspect of the game, what exactly does Ganon have over him? Something on his recovery? lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I have played SuSa, who is just a million times better than me in general.