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Wreck-It Bowser
- Thread starter Liquid Gen
- Start date
Player-1
Smash Legend
fonz beat ICs with his lucario
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
But that was early.
He beat AZ and blue rogue with ganon.
Most of the tourny was ganon.
He beat AZ and blue rogue with ganon.
Most of the tourny was ganon.
Ixisnaugus
Smash Journeyman
I'll add you. Always wanted to know what you sound like. I have to warn you though, while I am open to most game modes, I operate primarily and strictly in Team Deathmatch, and that game mode alone. I literally play nothing else in CoD, I buy the games for TDM, I have never once touched single player in MW2 or BLOPS since buying them on release day
.
What would you say if I told you I had an epiphany a couple months back? That the games character balance is far worse than we initially thought, and that the Matchup Chart is severely incorrect, and that Bowser's matchups are in fact 7:3 bare minimum against nearly every single character from D tier upwards? What would you say if I told you Bowser - along with 7 other characters - were completely and totally useless and deserve a tier of their own? That's the mindset I've built over the time gone.
Didn't think anyone would really notice to be honest. I'll try and stay more active, though I'll only be adding to the depression and misery lol.
Uncle
Novus Ordo Seclorum
Somehow, I just imagined Bowser and Dusknoir having a conversation.
Both of them had their arms crossed like badasses while doing so.
Both of them had their arms crossed like badasses while doing so.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Someone make this image.
theeboredone
Smash Legend
Why am I here?
Dumbfire
Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Could Ixis be interviewed now?
B!squick
Smash Master
Sorry, I didn't notice that was a link. :S
Don't worry, the single player in both is pretty subpar. And par is pretty sub what with games like Duke Nukem Forever running around. I mostly play TDM myself. Sometimes I mix it up a bit though. Especially when Nuke Town 24/7 was going down. Got me Flak Jacket Pro finally during that. (b'.')b And you know, I've yet to use my headset when Killer's around. I have 2 of them and I usually can't be bothered to use them. I usually think, well, I could use it, barely anyone else has one, so what am I gonna say to a silent audience anyway? I'll pop it on when I see you though.
Also, why would we miss one of the best Bowser players IN DUH WORLD? D:
Besides, how else will we know how Killer J. is doing?
Look, I'm the guy that insisted against Vex that Falco wasn't 55:45 and G&W wasn't even, but I think you're exaggerating. Unless you're using SF ratios, because yeah there are a ton of 7:3s in this game because Brawl is really poorly balanced and the only thing that keeps it alive is the original premise and the Nintendo characters. But back to my original point, which uses smashboard 7:3s.
The problem honestly? You haven't competitively played with another character. I have. I do better with some higher tiers, worse with others. The thing is though, the difference isn't that radical. I have really close games that I lose more often than not with Bowser and when I use a high tier the games are still close but I win.
Bowser is the easiest guy in the game to hit and that can really be overwhelming at times. He's not viable, I'm not even going to argue that. But it's still possible to use him in a few high tier matchups and come out the victor. One of the large number of things that disappoint me about Brawl Bowsers is that they refuse to use secondaries with a few exceptions like Uncle. Vex, KingKong, you and Phiddlesticks (not as sure on the last one so namesearch me bro) would all rather lose with Bowser and give up than admit he's handicapped and use a secondary.
But go ahead and prove me wrong. I'd honestly love to see you dominate the UK metagame with a high tier I think you have what it takes, if you fix your approach to the game and your bad habits.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
What if M2K dropped MK for ganon, and was better at the game.
O.o
O.o
Cassius.
you're deadMEAT.
what the **** are you talking about ^
anyway, I agree with Flayl for the most part I guess.
Ixis, Bowser doesn't run 3:7 vs everyone higher than D Tier. I'm assuming you mean Bowser loses to those characters, but even if it's the opposite, it's still a really odd epiphany.
Again, I ask you to give me whatever you're smoking. PLEASE MAN.
anyway, I agree with Flayl for the most part I guess.
Ixis, Bowser doesn't run 3:7 vs everyone higher than D Tier. I'm assuming you mean Bowser loses to those characters, but even if it's the opposite, it's still a really odd epiphany.
Again, I ask you to give me whatever you're smoking. PLEASE MAN.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
just... Picture it...
Ixisnaugus
Smash Journeyman
I'll first say that I was wrong about the Falco MU, the Yoshi MU, and other ratios. I don't think I'm exaggerating at all though, honestly, however I fully understand why you feel I'm being completely unreasonable. I really do believe that MU ratios in general are inflated (for lack of a better term) to make the game and specific characters seem more appealing than they actually are, Bowser being a shining example. This character supposedly has 6:4 MU's against a number of A tier characters, I cannot see how this is the case.
As an example, the MU chart has Bowser vs Snake at -2 (4:6), correct? If a Snake and Bowser player of equal skill were to play the MU by the book to the best of their ability, Bowser would not win 4 out of 10 matches, he'd likely win no more than 2, 3 if he gets lucky. I don't see how people can even claim Bowser has any kind of advantage in this or any other notable MU.
Giving a really rough overview of the MU, Sure, he has an unreliable chaingrab, SideB outranges most of Snake's ground game, but this doesn't actually amount to anything in the big picture. Bowser cant approach, you can push for spaced aerial SideB I suppose, but that is far from reliable, it's safe, but it's not reliable, it's predictable and easily avoided. Bowser cant so much as move without putting himself in extreme danger. Every last one of his aerials are useless, save for a gimmick here and there, such as Dair/Nair blowing up the bomb of Snake's USmash. Bowser's out sped on the ground by Snake's tilts alone, we cannot fight him close up, the only option this character has in a face-to-face situation is to mash UpB or hold shield, neither option is desirable because they're both totally unsafe, if Fortress fails and he blocks it, that's a hard punish, if he grabs while we're shielding, potentially a hard punish. You can argue to keep a responsible distance and use FTilt, but while that's safer, it's not reliable, there's no guarantee the move will hit. The move is too slow, and if Snake is holding a grenade, it wont matter anyway because we'd only be hurting ourselves. In the scenario that Snake is holding a grenade, the best option would be to either run away, go for SideB to bypass hitting the grenade physically, or Flame Breath. Other options such as going for a grab/dash-grab are too unsafe to list. Now the first of those options is a reset, the second is probably safer than the third but still predictable and unreliable, and the third option crosses the line of unreliability and borderlines on risky. How this MU has been pinned 6:4 is beyond me, Bowser doesn't have any surefire options in this and a great many other MU's. That's the core of this characters problems, everything is a gamble outside of punishing spacing, and if the opponent doesn't screw up their spacing, Bowser is doomed because he cant function properly in any other area.
You're right, I haven't played competitively with any other character in my life, I don't know what the experience is like, my opinions are formed from nothing but raw facts of the game itself and what I am told are facts by people I trust. If I'm being honest Flayl, the only reason you (not just you personally, but also myself, and every other Bowser user) beat your opponents, have close games with your opponent or feel comfortable using Bowser in specific MU's (namely the top tiers) over other characters is because your opponent is too ignorant about the character Bowser to fight him properly, or you're just a better player than they are, period. It's not even just Bowser, there are so many cases where some low tier bodies a well respected high tier user, then everyone claims that the low tier character is actually not bad or the user of that low tier is in fact some prodigy. No. Chances are these people aren't gods, their characters aren't underrated with this mysterious untapped potential some people keep harping on about, you got bodied because of your own negligence and incompetence.
Back when I started attending local tournaments, I was regularly ranking in top 10 positions, and on few occasions top 5 and even top 3. I am convinced that this is because, at the time, I was likely the best player attending, or at least tied for best player with one or two others. I would say I was the most knowledgeable to, but auroreon has always known more about the game than myself and we started attending at the same time. As time went on, I improved as a player, however my local tournament placements did anything but. Everyone else became better players, they became better with their characters, and the picture has become clearer and clearer to me. The most recent local tournament I attended had me coming second last. Despite knowing I've improved, despite being told I've improved, my tournament placements don't show it, even in regular friendlies it's a rare sight that I actually win.
Remember Hoe4u? The local Pikachu. He's improved a lot. I still have sessions with him where we go countless hours of non stop games. I can't beat him anymore, I literally cannot win. He knows the MU so well that it's nigh impossible to defeat him with Bowser now. That MU is also supposed to be -2, according to the chart. How can it be a -2 MU when I go from winning the majority of the matches, to winning less than half, to winning less than 10% of the time? These ratios are undoubtedly inflated, and it's not my own personal performance against other players that leads me to this conclusion, before anyone accuses me. I've given re-reviews to a number of MU in the time that I've been away, and these particular MU's that supposedly aren't too bad for Bowser are in fact horrifyingly bad. Oftentimes the strengths that are noted for Bowser are merely over-analysed side points, and they're getting more attention in favor of obvious points that play so much more of a role in the MU, such points as the fact that Bowser can't even approach or camp in a number of MU's. Including but not limited to the aforementioned Pikachu and Snake MU's. How on earth can Bowser possibly win 4 out of 10 times in MU's where he literally cant do a thing?
What I think it boils down to is, if you're going to use a secondary character to deal with Bowser's bad MU's, then you may as well scrap Bowser altogether and focus solely on the secondary, because Bowser doesn't help against A tiers, not in the slightest. Bowser's worst MU's include the entirety of A tier and beyond. I don't believe he does even marginally well against any of them.
If you want, I'm perfectly happy with debating MU's further. I kind of want to, I have no doubt in my mind that Bowser's MU's are as bad or even worse than I claim. I want to show you that Bowser is powerless against D tier upwards.
Because you're theeboredone
I dunno, do you want me to? Whatever happened to the interview thread?
Yea I figured as much, the only FPS with a campaign I've actually really enjoyed are the various iterations of Halo and Goldeneye 007. And don't worry, you'll get plenty of headset use when we play, I'm not the kind to stay silent when playing CoD (but I don't ***** and moan over every death like some people so don't worry)
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
"theboredone" I see whatcha did there.I'll first say that I was wrong about the Falco MU, the Yoshi MU, and other ratios. I don't think I'm exaggerating at all though, honestly, however I fully understand why you feel I'm being completely unreasonable. I really do believe that MU ratios in general are inflated (for lack of a better term) to make the game and specific characters seem more appealing than they actually are, Bowser being a shining example. This character supposedly has 6:4 MU's against a number of A tier characters, I cannot see how this is the case.
As an example, the MU chart has Bowser vs Snake at -2 (4:6), correct? If a Snake and Bowser player of equal skill were to play the MU by the book to the best of their ability, Bowser would not win 4 out of 10 matches, he'd likely win no more than 2, 3 if he gets lucky. I don't see how people can even claim Bowser has any kind of advantage in this or any other notable MU.
Giving a really rough overview of the MU, Sure, he has an unreliable chaingrab, SideB outranges most of Snake's ground game, but this doesn't actually amount to anything in the big picture. Bowser cant approach, you can push for spaced aerial SideB I suppose, but that is far from reliable, it's safe, but it's not reliable, it's predictable and easily avoided. Bowser cant so much as move without putting himself in extreme danger. Every last one of his aerials are useless, save for a gimmick here and there, such as Dair/Nair blowing up the bomb of Snake's USmash. Bowser's out sped on the ground by Snake's tilts alone, we cannot fight him close up, the only option this character has in a face-to-face situation is to mash UpB or hold shield, neither option is desirable because they're both totally unsafe, if Fortress fails and he blocks it, that's a hard punish, if he grabs while we're shielding, potentially a hard punish. You can argue to keep a responsible distance and use FTilt, but while that's safer, it's not reliable, there's no guarantee the move will hit. The move is too slow, and if Snake is holding a grenade, it wont matter anyway because we'd only be hurting ourselves. In the scenario that Snake is holding a grenade, the best option would be to either run away, go for SideB to bypass hitting the grenade physically, or Flame Breath. Other options such as going for a grab/dash-grab are too unsafe to list. Now the first of those options is a reset, the second is probably safer than the third but still predictable and unreliable, and the third option crosses the line of unreliability and borderlines on risky. How this MU has been pinned 6:4 is beyond me, Bowser doesn't have any surefire options in this and a great many other MU's. That's the core of this characters problems, everything is a gamble outside of punishing spacing, and if the opponent doesn't screw up their spacing, Bowser is doomed because he cant function properly in any other area.
You're right, I haven't played competitively with any other character in my life, I don't know what the experience is like, my opinions are formed from nothing but raw facts of the game itself and what I am told are facts by people I trust. If I'm being honest Flayl, the only reason you (not just you personally, but also myself, and every other Bowser user) beat your opponents, have close games with your opponent or feel comfortable using Bowser in specific MU's (namely the top tiers) over other characters is because your opponent is too ignorant about the character Bowser to fight him properly, or you're just a better player than they are, period. It's not even just Bowser, there are so many cases where some low tier bodies a well respected high tier user, then everyone claims that the low tier character is actually not bad or the user of that low tier is in fact some prodigy. No. Chances are these people aren't gods, their characters aren't underrated with this mysterious untapped potential some people keep harping on about, you got bodied because of your own negligence and incompetence.
Back when I started attending local tournaments, I was regularly ranking in top 10 positions, and on few occasions top 5 and even top 3. I am convinced that this is because, at the time, I was likely the best player attending, or at least tied for best player with one or two others. I would say I was the most knowledgeable to, but auroreon has always known more about the game than myself and we started attending at the same time. As time went on, I improved as a player, however my local tournament placements did anything but. Everyone else became better players, they became better with their characters, and the picture has become clearer and clearer to me. The most recent local tournament I attended had me coming second last. Despite knowing I've improved, despite being told I've improved, my tournament placements don't show it, even in regular friendlies it's a rare sight that I actually win.
Remember Hoe4u? The local Pikachu. He's improved a lot. I still have sessions with him where we go countless hours of non stop games. I can't beat him anymore, I literally cannot win. He knows the MU so well that it's nigh impossible to defeat him with Bowser now. That MU is also supposed to be -2, according to the chart. How can it be a -2 MU when I go from winning the majority of the matches, to winning less than half, to winning less than 10% of the time? These ratios are undoubtedly inflated, and it's not my own personal performance against other players that leads me to this conclusion, before anyone accuses me. I've given re-reviews to a number of MU in the time that I've been away, and these particular MU's that supposedly aren't too bad for Bowser are in fact horrifyingly bad. Oftentimes the strengths that are noted for Bowser are merely over-analysed side points, and they're getting more attention in favor of obvious points that play so much more of a role in the MU, such points as the fact that Bowser can't even approach or camp in a number of MU's. Including but not limited to the aforementioned Pikachu and Snake MU's. How on earth can Bowser possibly win 4 out of 10 times in MU's where he literally cant do a thing?
What I think it boils down to is, if you're going to use a secondary character to deal with Bowser's bad MU's, then you may as well scrap Bowser altogether and focus solely on the secondary, because Bowser doesn't help against A tiers, not in the slightest. Bowser's worst MU's include the entirety of A tier and beyond. I don't believe he does even marginally well against any of them.
If you want, I'm perfectly happy with debating MU's further. I kind of want to, I have no doubt in my mind that Bowser's MU's are as bad or even worse than I claim. I want to show you that Bowser is powerless against D tier upwards.
Because you're theeboredone
I dunno, do you want me to? Whatever happened to the interview thread?
Yea I figured as much, the only FPS with a campaign I've actually really enjoyed are the various iterations of Halo and Goldeneye 007. And don't worry, you'll get plenty of headset use when we play, I'm not the kind to stay silent when playing CoD (but I don't ***** and moan over every death like some people so don't worry)
Cassius.
you're deadMEAT.
why would i picture that? it really has no relevance to what's going on right now and is impossible. and damn dude, you had to quote the whole thing just for that one part? come on now.
back to the actual matter at hand, although not as pessimistic, ixis' post reminds me of what i was saying about Bowser's pain-in-the-*** limitations.
I do agree that Bowsers can get away with pure player ignorance or matchup ignorance. but that's just how it works, and ixis' example shows the main problem. bowser does fine for a few or so games, but once the player catches on to his gimmicks, that's the end of that. ON PAPER, Bowser's tools matched up against another character's tools may make the matchup seem pretty decent, but once the player fighting Bowser understands everything Bowser can do to the opponent, then it really becomes up to you [the bowser player] to step your **** up. and most of the time, you do...and it doesnt really work.
And Ixis is right about the secondary problem. Honestly if you're willing to use someone as bad as Bowser and use a secondary that's a lot better than him, why waste your time using Bowser, other than the fact that you perform better with Bowser or just completely prefer bowser over that character?
that sounds like a contradiction but I mean the only reason why a Bowser main would use Bowser + ____ instead of just _____ is because of the lack of skill player x has with ______. What we as players don't realize is if we put in work for a bit with that other character, we can probably bring it up to speed and have the results we pull out with Bowser be on par with the results we put out with this other/new character.. for example, I was talking to Zigsta about who he would use if not Bowser and he responded "Wario." (forgive me if I'm incorrect), and I said ****, wario is loads better than Bowser, why not just use him? One of the obvious responses would be to say "I just like Bowser more" which he didn't say, but he said the other response: "I'm not good enough with him yet"
...and then my example gets blurry because i dont know/cant remember if he said he'd use Bowser less if he was good with Wario or not. But that's the point i'm trying to make about us Bowsers being "stubborn" the problem is that most secondaries that you would use for one matchup perform better overall in all the other matchups you would use Bowser in, so why not use him? As an obvious example, if I second MK, why not just use Metaknight? Aside from preference or lack of skill, or stupidity/stubborness, there's nothing really stopping me. Flayl it is disappointing but idk, it's just how the **** works I guess.
And I'm pretty sure Uncle uses his "secondaries" a lot more than he uses Bowser in tournament...lol
back to the actual matter at hand, although not as pessimistic, ixis' post reminds me of what i was saying about Bowser's pain-in-the-*** limitations.
I do agree that Bowsers can get away with pure player ignorance or matchup ignorance. but that's just how it works, and ixis' example shows the main problem. bowser does fine for a few or so games, but once the player catches on to his gimmicks, that's the end of that. ON PAPER, Bowser's tools matched up against another character's tools may make the matchup seem pretty decent, but once the player fighting Bowser understands everything Bowser can do to the opponent, then it really becomes up to you [the bowser player] to step your **** up. and most of the time, you do...and it doesnt really work.
And Ixis is right about the secondary problem. Honestly if you're willing to use someone as bad as Bowser and use a secondary that's a lot better than him, why waste your time using Bowser, other than the fact that you perform better with Bowser or just completely prefer bowser over that character?
that sounds like a contradiction but I mean the only reason why a Bowser main would use Bowser + ____ instead of just _____ is because of the lack of skill player x has with ______. What we as players don't realize is if we put in work for a bit with that other character, we can probably bring it up to speed and have the results we pull out with Bowser be on par with the results we put out with this other/new character.. for example, I was talking to Zigsta about who he would use if not Bowser and he responded "Wario." (forgive me if I'm incorrect), and I said ****, wario is loads better than Bowser, why not just use him? One of the obvious responses would be to say "I just like Bowser more" which he didn't say, but he said the other response: "I'm not good enough with him yet"
...and then my example gets blurry because i dont know/cant remember if he said he'd use Bowser less if he was good with Wario or not. But that's the point i'm trying to make about us Bowsers being "stubborn" the problem is that most secondaries that you would use for one matchup perform better overall in all the other matchups you would use Bowser in, so why not use him? As an obvious example, if I second MK, why not just use Metaknight? Aside from preference or lack of skill, or stupidity/stubborness, there's nothing really stopping me. Flayl it is disappointing but idk, it's just how the **** works I guess.
And I'm pretty sure Uncle uses his "secondaries" a lot more than he uses Bowser in tournament...lol
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Yeah I did, just to mess with zigsta
The point of using any character below B tier is to "represent" it because you like the character. Well duh of course you can find characters that do all of Bowser's matchups better. That goes for ALL below average characters.
Ixis you're painting a bleak picture for the Snake matchup but you're making it sound like he shuts Bowser out... which he doesn't. Maybe I read it wrong. Anyway I really don't like writing about matchups, but have you incorporated landing klaw mixups in your game yet?
And guys, character ignorance goes both ways.
Ixis you're painting a bleak picture for the Snake matchup but you're making it sound like he shuts Bowser out... which he doesn't. Maybe I read it wrong. Anyway I really don't like writing about matchups, but have you incorporated landing klaw mixups in your game yet?
And guys, character ignorance goes both ways.
Ixisnaugus
Smash Journeyman
@ Flayl
I understand that Flayl, now more than ever, actually. I'm not suggesting we cease representing Bowser, or dropping him, or trying to develop his meta game further (if it can go further). I'm trying to illustrate the colossal abyss that unfortunately separates Bowser from not just the high tiers, but also nearly every character above his own tier. Most of Bowser's MU's are negative, we all agree on that, but they're so much worse than we initially thought, and it's not just Bowser, it's like that for a great number of other characters in the game. I think people want so badly to make something more appealing than it actually is that they'll skew the facts to make it appear that way. I'm not saying the Bowser's have purposely inflated ratios for their own selfish ends, or anyone else for that matter, but no one really wants to turn around and say "Yea this MU is 8:2" for multiple MU's, it just feels weird because actual matches don't often turn out that way, so any advantage the losing character has will be pushed on a pedestal and we'll convince ourselves that said advantage actually plays a much larger role than it actually does.
The overview was very rough and rigid, of course it is most certainly not the be all, end all of the Bowser/Snake MU, but I wanted to show that there are key problems with fighting Snake that effectively stop Bowser from performing even adequately, the same key problems that come up in just about every MU, problems that are so bad they prevent Bowser from behaving like a proper character in this game.
About the ignorance thing, you're definitely right. That's why I endeavor to no longer operate in areas like "If the person doesn't know Bowser can do X, we can abuse this to set up for Y". That line of thinking has no place in MU discussions.
I've been practicing a bit with landing Klaw mixups, still some jaggies that need smoothing out though, they'll be refined more over time though, I hope.
@ Limit.
Rather than limitations, I would call them inabilities. There is so much that Bowser literally cannot do, and that is the biggest problem of this character first and foremost.
Bowser cant attack reliably and safely. Klaw comes closest to what we want from an approach, but it's just not reliable enough. You cant totally play safe with him, you are forced to take dangerous gambles again and again, and Bowser - probably more so than any other character - simply cannot afford to slip up, because the consequences are potentially dire, costing us an entire stock in certain cases. That paragraph right there, I feel is the #1 problem and it completely destroys any chance of not just viability, but also even or near-even MU's.
I understand that Flayl, now more than ever, actually. I'm not suggesting we cease representing Bowser, or dropping him, or trying to develop his meta game further (if it can go further). I'm trying to illustrate the colossal abyss that unfortunately separates Bowser from not just the high tiers, but also nearly every character above his own tier. Most of Bowser's MU's are negative, we all agree on that, but they're so much worse than we initially thought, and it's not just Bowser, it's like that for a great number of other characters in the game. I think people want so badly to make something more appealing than it actually is that they'll skew the facts to make it appear that way. I'm not saying the Bowser's have purposely inflated ratios for their own selfish ends, or anyone else for that matter, but no one really wants to turn around and say "Yea this MU is 8:2" for multiple MU's, it just feels weird because actual matches don't often turn out that way, so any advantage the losing character has will be pushed on a pedestal and we'll convince ourselves that said advantage actually plays a much larger role than it actually does.
The overview was very rough and rigid, of course it is most certainly not the be all, end all of the Bowser/Snake MU, but I wanted to show that there are key problems with fighting Snake that effectively stop Bowser from performing even adequately, the same key problems that come up in just about every MU, problems that are so bad they prevent Bowser from behaving like a proper character in this game.
About the ignorance thing, you're definitely right. That's why I endeavor to no longer operate in areas like "If the person doesn't know Bowser can do X, we can abuse this to set up for Y". That line of thinking has no place in MU discussions.
I've been practicing a bit with landing Klaw mixups, still some jaggies that need smoothing out though, they'll be refined more over time though, I hope.
@ Limit.
Rather than limitations, I would call them inabilities. There is so much that Bowser literally cannot do, and that is the biggest problem of this character first and foremost.
Bowser cant attack reliably and safely. Klaw comes closest to what we want from an approach, but it's just not reliable enough. You cant totally play safe with him, you are forced to take dangerous gambles again and again, and Bowser - probably more so than any other character - simply cannot afford to slip up, because the consequences are potentially dire, costing us an entire stock in certain cases. That paragraph right there, I feel is the #1 problem and it completely destroys any chance of not just viability, but also even or near-even MU's.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Limit, I like Bowser a lot more than Wario, but I'd use Wario for some MUs if I actually practiced more with him.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Oh, whoops. I read the last page real quick on my way home from work, haha.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
I stopped using the character for a reason(points at tigress avatar[smirk]).
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Bowsers a nice guy
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Now we just need to wait for a legit KFP fighter!
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
^agreed^
big time.
big time.
theeboredone
Smash Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hamdre1_SLM
edit: BTW, just as a reminder, Bowser's best secondaries are MK, Diddy, Falco and Ice Climbers. Characters like ROB, Snake and Wario lose in matchups where the Bowser player should definitely switch (not just against MK).
if you ignore the MK matchup, Peach becomes a good secondary.
edit: BTW, just as a reminder, Bowser's best secondaries are MK, Diddy, Falco and Ice Climbers. Characters like ROB, Snake and Wario lose in matchups where the Bowser player should definitely switch (not just against MK).
if you ignore the MK matchup, Peach becomes a good secondary.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
I main icies.
I don't see how on earth anyone could second them.
Too hard.
MK's a good secondary for MK.
I don't see how on earth anyone could second them.
Too hard.
MK's a good secondary for MK.
B!squick
Smash Master
^ You mean that Goldeneye, right?
I've found Halo's campaigns pretty bland myself. H:CE had the whole surprise appearance of the Flood going for it. Then H2 was all like, ahhhh! The Flood. Are you still surprised? Also, most of these missions will have ungodly long lengths, so I hope you packed a lunch. And then H3 was like, ahhh... the Flood... yeah, we honestly weren't trying at all here.
ODST was the first and really the only time they tried something new and different with the story. You weren't playing a super human created by science and you basically play detective a bit as you shoot through some enemies to the next area, find some clues about qhat happened to your squad, and then play the game from their perspective up to that point. Rinse and repeat. The problem for me came when I was actually playing, because I really didn't feel like I was a super human created by science and I just quit playing as opposed to lowering the difficulty.
Reach.... I really just didn't care at all for the story in that one. I could not get invested in the characters or what they were doing at ALL as I just shoot some Covees, walked, maybe get some story, shoot some more Covees... *snore* It was at about the halfway point when I was wishing for the Flood to show up that I gave up. And, Noble team was so eye gouging generic. The big guy with the big gun. The silent, creepy stealth guy. The sassy sniper. Come ON! Master Chief has more depth and he's as generic as they come! D:
But it did make for some funny videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxWhg__70CQ
Did you get the new map pack for Black Ops? I skipped the second one randomly, but the third one sold me with the Zombie map. I haven't played it yet though... Which is a problem I should correct right now.
Uncle
Novus Ordo Seclorum
I'm a little late to the party regarding this, but.........
It's true that I use my other characters (DK and Mr. G&W) more in tournaments than I use Bowser nowadays. I'm guilty as charged, and I've never hid that fact.
Why do I play them more, though? Well, it's because of something that we've all heard before in some form or fashion from various players. I hate to say it, but they're better characters and I'm more successful with them.
The only reason I've continued to play Bowser at all is because of my love for the character himself. He's certainly not helping me out in any MU whatsoever. He's practically never the best choice for a situation, out of my three characters. I also only seem to win with him when the opponent is just plain outmatched by me as a player, which is another thing I feel pained to say. Furthermore, he's costed me games I could have potentially won with the other two. Love is beginning to not be enough...........
I enjoy all three of my characters (that's why I chose them in the first place), but I enjoy getting results as well. It's a balance that I aim for, which is why I don't just screw it all and go MK or A tier. Neither DK nor GDubs is an amazing character, but I get my best performances with them, unlike with Bowser. They can actually hold their own and I've got a better handle on them then I do with Bowser, it seems. I also feel like I'm not playing only for glory or money when doing so, much like when I'm playing Bowser. Whenever you're doing well, and doing it with characters you actually like, you feel fantastic.
Where am I going with this? I believe it is time for me to say goodbye to competitive Bowser play (outside of Low Tier tournaments). It's not because of what ANYONE said in this thread recently, by the way. I've been thinking about this for about two months now. I came to this decision on my own.
Let it be known that it's not entirely because he's a bad character. I've also come to the conclusion that I'm really not the right guy for him. I definitely "click" more with the other two characters, and it goes a little beyond their natural superiority to Bowser. My lack of results with Bowser isn't all his fault, because I'm deserving of partial blame. Our hearts and minds aren't united, as cheesy as it sounds.
There's plenty of honor and nothing wrong with repping a character of Bowser's caliber. I just feel that I'm not the right guy to do it. I love Bowser the character, but our relationship certainly hasn't been working out in the realm of competition. I realize that this speech is making me look like a hypocrite too. I used to be the guy who was constantly pushing for more board activity to further his metagame, but take a look at me now.
I'm sorry if I let any of you guys down. I know you guys might have really been looking forward to another Bowser player who could possibly make an impact with him, but then again, I'm sure you guys are incredibly used to people announcing that they've dropped him.
I'll still be checking out this board, though, because Bowser players are a cool bunch, like numerous people before me have said.
Goodbye for now, King Bowser. Maybe the next Smash will give you what you truly deserve.
Tl;dr - I'm dropping Bowser, I'm basically a hypocrite, and you guys are still cool. That is all.
It's true that I use my other characters (DK and Mr. G&W) more in tournaments than I use Bowser nowadays. I'm guilty as charged, and I've never hid that fact.
Why do I play them more, though? Well, it's because of something that we've all heard before in some form or fashion from various players. I hate to say it, but they're better characters and I'm more successful with them.
The only reason I've continued to play Bowser at all is because of my love for the character himself. He's certainly not helping me out in any MU whatsoever. He's practically never the best choice for a situation, out of my three characters. I also only seem to win with him when the opponent is just plain outmatched by me as a player, which is another thing I feel pained to say. Furthermore, he's costed me games I could have potentially won with the other two. Love is beginning to not be enough...........
I enjoy all three of my characters (that's why I chose them in the first place), but I enjoy getting results as well. It's a balance that I aim for, which is why I don't just screw it all and go MK or A tier. Neither DK nor GDubs is an amazing character, but I get my best performances with them, unlike with Bowser. They can actually hold their own and I've got a better handle on them then I do with Bowser, it seems. I also feel like I'm not playing only for glory or money when doing so, much like when I'm playing Bowser. Whenever you're doing well, and doing it with characters you actually like, you feel fantastic.
Where am I going with this? I believe it is time for me to say goodbye to competitive Bowser play (outside of Low Tier tournaments). It's not because of what ANYONE said in this thread recently, by the way. I've been thinking about this for about two months now. I came to this decision on my own.
Let it be known that it's not entirely because he's a bad character. I've also come to the conclusion that I'm really not the right guy for him. I definitely "click" more with the other two characters, and it goes a little beyond their natural superiority to Bowser. My lack of results with Bowser isn't all his fault, because I'm deserving of partial blame. Our hearts and minds aren't united, as cheesy as it sounds.
There's plenty of honor and nothing wrong with repping a character of Bowser's caliber. I just feel that I'm not the right guy to do it. I love Bowser the character, but our relationship certainly hasn't been working out in the realm of competition. I realize that this speech is making me look like a hypocrite too. I used to be the guy who was constantly pushing for more board activity to further his metagame, but take a look at me now.
I'm sorry if I let any of you guys down. I know you guys might have really been looking forward to another Bowser player who could possibly make an impact with him, but then again, I'm sure you guys are incredibly used to people announcing that they've dropped him.
I'll still be checking out this board, though, because Bowser players are a cool bunch, like numerous people before me have said.
Goodbye for now, King Bowser. Maybe the next Smash will give you what you truly deserve.
Tl;dr - I'm dropping Bowser, I'm basically a hypocrite, and you guys are still cool. That is all.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Keep your posts this small so homeschoolers like me will read em.
Or not cause... This is America.
Or not cause... This is America.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Me, Atomsk, and Vinnie all secondary IC's.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
But... The chain grabs and the timing and the spacing and the desyncs...
Ridiculous.
Im playing my melée for fun.
I can't see you could could like it more than brawl.
I like brawl so much more.
Ridiculous.
Im playing my melée for fun.
I can't see you could could like it more than brawl.
I like brawl so much more.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Sometimes I like to get my trolololol on.
Not always tho!
Not always tho!
B!squick
Smash Master
Why is there so little talk about Batman going on?
http://www.cracked.com/video_18175_why-batman-secretly-terrible-gotham.html
http://www.cracked.com/video_18175_why-batman-secretly-terrible-gotham.html
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Batman is the biznit