Would it be right to say that ALL the moves in this game can be useful?

[da K.I.D.]

wolfs down tilt is fast, ranged and hard to punish and is garanteed after down throw at low damage

 

[Sosuke]

Omg!
I just found THE most useful technique for using Jiggalypuff's Up-B.
...
Ok, ready for this?
No, no I don't think you are.
Take a deep breath.
Alright:

When someones shield breaks, you can fly over them a little and use sing so that the last sound-wave thing comes out just as you land. They will fall asleep, and you'll have enough time for a FREE REST!!!1!!11

/skills.

Spoiler

If you haven't gotten it by now, it was a joke. =P

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Yeah, provided you play against a sufficiently worse opponent.

 

[Samuelson]

I'm pretty sure that MK's tornado has no uses.

 

[MrEh]

I'm pretty sure that MK's tornado has no uses.

Agreed. It doesn't even kill. It sucks.

 

[The_Altrox]

This is by fay the biggest collection of fail I have ever seen. Holy ****, I've never seen a community fail so hard. Wow.

EVERY Ganon main uses the Up tilt. It is good for edge guarding. It has no end lag. It has twice the range of the Warlock Punch. It was used three times in a recent match between Koskinator amd Zeonstar in the finals of the Ganon-only tournament. The only people who said the Up tilt had uses were equally wrong. It is worthless on a broken shield. The Warlock Punch has much more knockback. Warlock Punch recovery hasn't been used in months by anyone.

In other words, you all suck. Colossal fail, Smash World Forums.

That's not very nice

 

[SketchHurricane]

All moves are useful. Not all moves are practical.

A move that is impractical is still useful, just not worth it 9 times out of 10.

Practical moves get used, impractical ones do not, thus the illusion of a "useless" move.

This thread is useful, but impractical.

A more practical thread would be "Uses for the least-used moves."

 

[tocador]

I'm pretty sure that MK's tornado has no uses.

yeah we finnally found it,the worst move of all. I mean it dosent kill, it can kill you if you use wrong, too hard to use (D**M B's TOO FAR, CANT REACH IT), and when you use it it makes a wringsring sound for ever thats makes me mad. And when you use it you cant use shuttle loop =[, and cant spam dtilts too, its a bad move.

/thread

 

[Serph]

^_^ .

All he said was that the best use for up tilt isn't punishing broken shields (we have Warlock Punch for that) - not that it doesn't have a use at all. Quite the opposite. Ganondorf users will toss out an up tilt a lot more often than a Warlock Punch.

In other words, if you were going to offer up a use for up tilt, it should've been as a low risk/high reward edgeguard.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I hit quite often with U-tilt. People try to walk away from it but get drawn back, or they try to shield it too soon, get scared of a broken shield, drop shield, get hit.

 

[Yuna]

If you're gonna go to the extreme and assume someone's asleep or has had their shield broken, then yes.

If not, then no. There are several useless moves that are either just useless in general (outside of a broken shield) or there just exist better moves that do the same things better/faster/both.

For instance, Peach Bomber. She doesn't even bounce off of walls with it anymore, it's just nominally faster and slightly stronger than in Melee and it requires a truckload of damage to KO or even blow someone off the stage.

Use?

 

[Cirno]

All moves are useful. Not all moves are practical.

A move that is impractical still useful, just not worth it.

Practical moves get used, impractical ones do not.

This thread is useful, but impractical.

A more practical thread would be "Uses for the least-used moves."

This, for a majority of moves people have been saying.

I never use Zamus' fsmash, but it can be used to help with move decay, thus use. Same goes for the other moves I've seen like Mario's d-tilt and what not.

The only true worthless moves in the game are Olimar smashes without pikmin.



I use peach bomber when recovering horizontally to save my second jump. People without matchup experience usually get caught by it's surprising range and weird active frames.

If for whatever reason you have an opponent at ridiculously high damage, sing will keep them asleep longer than the move for a free rest.

 

[Aeropup]

If you're gonna go to the extreme and assume someone's asleep or has had their shield broken, then yes.

If not, then no. There are several useless moves that are either just useless in general (outside of a broken shield) or there just exist better moves that do the same things better/faster/both.

For instance, Peach Bomber. She doesn't even bounce off of walls with it anymore, it's just nominally faster and slightly stronger than in Melee and it requires a truckload of damage to KO or even blow someone off the stage.

Use?

I was playing around with peach once, and I managed to WOP a CPU into the side blastline with it

And yes, Ganon's Utilt edgeguard has broken range. I learnt that the hard way a couple of days ago.

 

[Yuna]

I was playing around with peach once, and I managed to WOP a CPU into the side blastline with it

At what, 250%?

And yes, Ganon's Utilt edgeguard has broken range. I learnt that the hard way a couple of days ago.

Range means squat in this game unless it's fast. Even as an edgeugard, what the heck is he going to do? This game has auto-sweetspotting. His range does not extend leagues below the stage. All you need to do is to time your Up B so you auto-sweetspot either before or afte U-tilt hits and then get up and punish his tuchas!

 

[Delvro]

I dare you to try and find a situation where Lucas's Zair is useful.

 

[SketchHurricane]

And yes, Ganon's Utilt edgeguard has broken range. I learnt that the hard way a couple of days ago.

And I bet you'll never get hit by that again. Hitting with Ganon's Utilt in any situation is a complete *** up on the opponents part.

Range means squat in this game unless it's fast. Even as an edgeugard, what the heck is he going to do? This game has auto-sweetspotting. His range does not extend leagues below the stage. All you need to do is to time your Up B so you auto-sweetspot either before or afte U-tilt hits and then get up and punish his tuchas!

Did you really just say "tuchas?"

 

[Veggi]

For instance, Peach Bomber. She doesn't even bounce off of walls with it anymore, it's just nominally faster and slightly stronger than in Melee and it requires a truckload of damage to KO or even blow someone off the stage.

Use?

Tech chase, it isn't punishable on Jungle Japes because it sweet-spots the edges on the side platforms, plus it has high knock-back for being used at low percents, but it has a low growth rate, in other words it is great for hitting people that are trying to recover and it has horizontal knock-back. People are more vulnerable while recovering and rarely make it back after being Bomber'd off-stage, it has a higher hit for me if I walk backwards a bit before using it so that it isn't as expected.

If you miss after the Bomber, you won't be punished, you can still recover and possibly bair stage spike. A landed Peach Bomber that doesn't kill can set up for a fair or another Peach Bomber.

Range means squat in this game unless it's fast.

Dedede's ftilt is not fast.

Even as an edgeugard, what the heck is he going to do? This game has auto-sweetspotting. His range does not extend leagues below the stage. All you need to do is to time your Up B so you auto-sweetspot either before or afte U-tilt hits and then get up and punish his tuchas!

Considering the lack of cool down after his utilt you could not punish him for it.

I dare you to try and find a situation where Lucas's Zair is useful.

Tethering the edge.

 

[Ascorias]

ROB's side-b. nuff said

 

[Veggi]

It reflects projectiles and it can sort of cover him while he's recovering, sort of.

 

[Yuna]

I dare you to try and find a situation where Lucas's Zair is useful.

Recovering quickly while in range of the ledge instead of going for the much slower and riskier Up B?

Did you really just say "tuchas?"

I say "tuchas" all the time.

Tech chase

It's not very powerful of a tech-chase. And it's so slow on activation there are better moves to tech-chase with, like sweetspotted Upsmash, Dsmash (combo), dashacttack, whatever. It's not the ultimate tech chase tool, there are better moves.

it isn't punishable on Jungle Japes because it sweet-spots the edges on the side platforms

So it's an OK move for recovery. It's still slow on activation. It telegraphs, people fast enough can hit you out of it.

plus it has high knock-back for being used at low percents, but it has a low growth rate, in other words it is great for hitting people that are trying to recover and it has horizontal knock-back

It barely auto-sweetspots. It's also telegraphic. Nobody is ever surprised by it (she even makes a special sound every single time on activation). You can just airdodge it.

It's a weak semi-spike, yes. DI.

People are more vulnerable while recovering and rarely make it back after being Bomber'd off-stage, it has a higher hit for me if I walk backwards a bit before using it so that it isn't as expected.

You cannot be surprised by it unless you're an idiot or are already lagging from using a move. When recovering, you will be on the look-out. Peach always says "Ha" when activating it. There's no surprising people with it.

If you miss after the Bomber, you won't be punished, you can still recover and possibly bair stage spike.

Peach Bomber still has a bit of lag. You can be punished.

A landed Peach Bomber that doesn't kill can set up for a fair or another Peach Bomber.

No it doesn't. Or do you mean if they're recovering and has to recover again?

 

[AAP]

how did peach bomber end up in here? its not great but far from useless.

Jiggly's sing is the most obvious to me, ledge canceling makes it almost not useless. But who's gunna fall for that twice? but i'm sure as people have mentioned, certain tilts don't really have a time or place aside from refreshing other moves. Which is as close to useless as it comes for me.

 

[Yuna]

how did peach bomber end up in here? its not great but far from useless.

Because everything it can do can be done, only better, by other moves.

 

[AAP]

but as an alternative option it has a use in many ways. as a recovery option alone it has a use, maybe not the best option, but as far as recovery is concerned options are always useful.

 

[Brinzy]

Generally speaking, when a move has a use but there's a better answer for it in virtually every real situation, the move is considered useless. Mario's dtilt, for example, can be seen as useless because there are faster moves that do better things (jab), stronger moves that come out at about the same speed (Dsmash), and better moves to get your opponent in the air (a plethora of moves, most of which set your opponent up better than dtilt could ever hope for).

Peach Bomber's only slightly redeeming factor that I can think of is recovery, and even then, she can be punished for it by fast characters. You're better off not using it unless you're fighting certain characters.

 

[Yuna]

but as an alternative option it has a use in many ways. as a recovery option alone it has a use, maybe not the best option, but as far as recovery is concerned options are always useful.

But if there are always moves that are better, why use it at all? If the criteria is "Have absolutely no uses ever", then nothing is ever useless since everything has a use (almost) if the opponent is shield-broken.

The most common complaint is the plethora of tilts which accomplish nothing Smashes or other moves will accomplish. Then these are also not useless per se since they're just inferior options. They have uses... sometimes.

 

[TP]

Range means squat in this game unless it's fast. Even as an edgeugard, what the heck is he going to do? This game has auto-sweetspotting. His range does not extend leagues below the stage. All you need to do is to time your Up B so you auto-sweetspot either before or afte U-tilt hits and then get up and punish his tuchas!

The explosion DOES reach well below the stage. This move in unpunishable unless you use it stupidly. It has virtually no end lag. As I said earlier, even the best Ganons use the U-tilt to edge guard. It is low risk and very high reward.

 

[Yuna]

The explosion DOES reach well below the stage. This move in unpunishable unless you use it stupidly. It has virtually no end lag. As I said earlier, even the best Ganons use the U-tilt to edge guard. It is low risk and very high reward.

Did I or did I not tell you to recover either before or after the hit comes out? It depends on what's best for the situation.

Ganondorf might not be punishable after the explosion, but it's nigh impossible to hit with because you'd have to time it so that the explosion will come out when the opponent has no choice but to be in range of it.

All they have to do is either make it back onto the stage above Ganondorf or making it back before or after the explosion hits. Mostly people's Up Bs and second jumps are so high now that they could, if push comes to shove, just airdodge the explosion and then Up B.

The move is so slow it's telegraphic several seconds in advance. People just have to know how long it takes for the explosion to come out and then DI, 2nd jump, Up B or whatever to recover. Heck, it's kinda hard to force someone to have to sweetspot to recover, so it's not like you can use this edgeguard that often.

Most of the time, people will just recover above Ganondorf.

 

[TP]

Did I or did I not tell you to recover either before or after the hit comes out? It depends on what's best for the situation.

Ganondorf might not be punishable after the explosion, but it's nigh impossible to hit with because you'd have to time it so that the explosion will come out when the opponent has no choice but to be in range of it.

All they have to do is either make it back onto the stage above Ganondorf or making it back before or after the explosion hits. Mostly people's Up Bs and second jumps are so high now that they could, if push comes to shove, just airdodge the explosion and then Up B.

The move is so slow it's telegraphic several seconds in advance. People just have to know how long it takes for the explosion to come out and then DI, 2nd jump, Up B or whatever to recover. Heck, it's kinda hard to force someone to have to sweetspot to recover, so it's not like you can use this edgeguard that often.

Most of the time, people will just recover above Ganondorf.

You are correct. Most of the time, Ganon will try to guard with Dair and Uair. Utilt is only used in the situations where it has a legit chance of working. I'm not saying it's a good move. All I'm saying is that people are wrong to brush it aside as nothing.

 

[DanGR]

I was messing around with Ganondorf two days ago against my friend's pikachu. He was using falling fair->followup rather predictably and I was able to uptilt to avoid a spaced fair. He dsmashed to punish uptilt, but it didn't reach (His leg extended up and somewhat over Pikachu's spinning body). While Pikachu was finishing up the spinning animation, Ganon's manly foot exploded in his face. It was hilarious.

Not that it's a useful tactic, but I thought I'd share anyways, lol.

 

[WITH]

ROB's side-b. nuff said

hes right. the startup is slow so u may as well shield instead of trying to use this to reflect. someone would have to be dumb to get hit by this move or its reflection.

 

[Uffe]

hes right. the startup is slow so u may as well shield instead of trying to use this to reflect. someone would have to be dumb to get hit by this move or its reflection.

What do you mean they'd have to be dumb to get hit by it? If they were expecting another attack, then you could see why they'd get hit by this horribly slow attack.

 

[Eddie G]

Yes, if you were speaking strictly about MK.

 

[SketchHurricane]

What do you mean they'd have to be dumb to get hit by it? If they were expecting another attack, then you could see why they'd get hit by this horribly slow attack.

It's really a poor man's dsmash. The reflection isn't fast enough to stop more than maybe one projectile, due to start up/cool down.

 

[SSD]

the reflection usually doesn't even work. As Pit, I can repeatedly tap B, and if the first arrow hits, my friend, who often hammers side B, can't start it up before the next one hits. The one time he did, it got reflected into my next arrow, causing the arrow to cancel out. I pressed B again and hit him.

 

[Samuelson]

Zelda's Down B is a pretty worthless move IMO.

 

[cman]

The mother, father, and grandparent of all useless moves is ROB's side-b. End discussion.

 

[Katapultar]

Best to wait and discover the use but you are probably right

 

[illinialex24]

No, Jigglypuff has sing.....

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Meh. There are tons of moves that are totally useless under ideal conditions. For example. Marios fludd is probably the most useless move I have ever seen in my life, along with Squirtle's water thing. No matter what people say, those moves are useless. For the most part, though, there is a practical use for every move.

 

[Megavitamins]

In melee you could SH falon punch over samus dsmash and hit her in the lag time. xD.