Would it be right to say that ALL the moves in this game can be useful?

[The_Altrox]

Meh. There are tons of moves that are totally useless under ideal conditions. For example. Marios fludd is probably the most useless move I have ever seen in my life, along with Squirtle's water thing. No matter what people say, those moves are useless. For the most part, though, there is a practical use for every move.

I've seen those used to end matches early though...

 

[Greasy]

Mario's downtilt can poke someone hanging on the ledge, pop them up and cause enough lag for a free Fsmash, I've done it before. I think you have to hit their uninvincible hands though.

 

[Brinzy]

Might as well Dsmash them and not risk them airdodging Fsmash.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Ganon's up tilt can be used to activate the exploding field on Green Greens. If you have amazing timing, you could also use it to kill and Ike who is using Quick Draw the same way King Dedede does with his Inhale.

Peach Bomber is obviously not useless because it's her best damaging attack she can do while holding a bomb without throwing it.

Things like Mario's down tilt are useful for obscure follow ups as people have pointed out.

Jigglypuff's Sing can be ledge canceled, and if you predict an empty short hop that will land within Sing range, it's a good option.

Mario's F.L.U.D.D. and Squirtle's Water Gun are great for gimping Ness and Lucas if they try to recover from certain angles.

R.O.B. can use his forward special to really own Pikachu when Pikachu is using Thunder.

Stuff like Warlock Punch is obviously useful against a broken shield. That also covers Pk Flash (not as strong as Ness's other stuff, but there's no real loss in diminishing Pk Flash).

Stuff like Zero Suit Samus's up throw might be able to kill in some situations. What if you grab them in the middle of Luigi's Mansion where they could tech both the forward and the back throws but not the up but they are at a really high percentage? Any throw that is the longest or shortest animation throw a character has is inherently useful for either forcing you both to be hit by a hazard or getting them away fast so you personally can avoid a hazard, and any throw that is the strongest knockback you have in any of the four cardinal directions will be your best bet for killing in some circumstances; keep that in mind before naming seemingly bad throws.

King Dedede's Jet Hammer is pretty close to useless since his forward smash is better against broken shields and is fine to diminish. He could hurt himself by overcharging to avoid being chainthrown by Falco I suppose, and I seem to recall hearing that it was really good for hitting opponents doing something obscure that I can't remember.

Pk Freeze is pretty terrible, but if you want to hit a particular spot over and over again with a projectile it can be more useful than Pk Thunder. I saw it work out well in teams once when I had a full bucket and we were both hanging out on the side of the shine gate on Delfino Plaza; it really damaged the enemy's ability to not approach us.

My vote for worst move in the game goes to Mr. Game & Watch's Judgment Hammer, but if you are playing someone WAY better than you that you have no hope at all of ever beating, praying for lucky #9 might be your best bet. In general I'd prefer to try to use good moves to come back if I'm against an opponent that I think I have any hope of ever beating no matter how much I'm down (since Judgment Hammer is a pretty good way to lose), but there is some argument on last stock 0% enemy versus you at 190% or something for trying for Judgment Hammer.

Some moves are really terrible, but it's not fair to say that any move is useless in 100% of possible situations. Even the worst of moves have the best of moments.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

i think so. we have yet to fully understand every component of brawl, when we discover everything(which i think will be impossible to tell) every move will have a unique use thta is best in a given situation

 

[Brinzy]

Some moves are really terrible, but it's not fair to say that any move is useless in 100% of possible situations. Even the worst of moves have the best of moments.

Ok then, there are near-useless moves. The best moments of some of those moves that you mentioned are still easily outclassed by a different move in that situation, OR the situation doesn't happen enough for it to really be of even decent merit. Yeah, those moves can be used for interesting effects (like the Peach Bomber + a bomb thing), but this doesn't really make them useful (what the thread was talking about).

 

[Judge Judy]

Meh. There are tons of moves that are totally useless under ideal conditions. For example. Marios fludd is probably the most useless move I have ever seen in my life, along with Squirtle's water thing. No matter what people say, those moves are useless. For the most part, though, there is a practical use for every move.

Ah, I just knew someone would say this at least once when this thread was made.

Read this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196174

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Ok then, there are near-useless moves. The best moments of some of those moves that you mentioned are still easily outclassed by a different move in that situation, OR the situation doesn't happen enough for it to really be of even decent merit. Yeah, those moves can be used for interesting effects (like the Peach Bomber + a bomb thing), but this doesn't really make them useful (what the thread was talking about).

A move is "useful" in the sense that in some context it is the best move to do. That is true for every move; they only vary by degrees of usefulness. I would agree that some are "near useless", but none is "completely useless".

I don't think it's even an interesting discussion to ask whether some moves are not good moves to the point where they should typically not be used in any given match; it's just obvious some moves are that bad. The question of whether an optimal player would ever use any specific move in any situation in any match, however, is actually worth discussing.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Da K.I.D., the down tilt is not guaranteed as far as I can remember. It will work if the opponent doesn't expect it or if they don't attack you first. Otherwise, it still doesn't help too much at all.

Maybe I just skipped it, but did someone mention Wario's down smash? I think that's in the category of: Every other option you have is better than this one, but I wouldn't be sure.

 

[Kinzer]

The mother, father, and grandparent of all useless moves is ROB's side-b. End discussion.

correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't R.O.B.s Side-B reflect projectiles?

I know that any R.O.B. player would tell you, but aren't there a couple more uses for Side-B, perhaps?

 

[HeroMystic]

This title should be changed to "Would it be right to say that ALL moves in this game can be worthy of use?"

Mario's D-tilt is not worthy of use. :|

 

[Justblaze647]

I'd like to think all the moves in this game have a use...

Then I thought about how many times I've hit ANYONE with Ganon's u-tilt...

Spoiler

only once

 

[Ascorias]

I am a ROB main. Side-b is useless. As a reflector it is terrible. The best that can be said is that it is a minor deterrent for pikachu's thunder.

 

[Yuna]

Zelda's Down B is a pretty worthless move IMO.

It can actually be used. The final hit is a semi-spike so if you time it at the ledge, you can give them a weak semi-spike as an edgeguard.

But it's her only reflecting move. When reflecting Pikmin, the Pikmin will walk back to Olimar and attack him. And since Pikmin aren't that fast to throw at people, if Olimar is spamming Pikmin, Down B them and he'll be the one to eat them.

It's too slow to contend with the faster projectiles, though. But it's not totally useless. It's at least useful against Olimar.

 

[Samuelson]

It can actually be used. The final hit is a semi-spike so if you time it at the ledge, you can give them a weak semi-spike as an edgeguard.

But it's her only reflecting move. When reflecting Pikmin, the Pikmin will walk back to Olimar and attack him. And since Pikmin aren't that fast to throw at people, if Olimar is spamming Pikmin, Down B them and he'll be the one to eat them.

It's too slow to contend with the faster projectiles, though. But it's not totally useless. It's at least useful against Olimar.

I was talking about the move that transforms Zelda into Sheik, not her reflector lol

Thanks for being willing to help anyways though :D

 

[Yuna]

I was talking about the move that transforms Zelda into Sheik, not her reflector lol

Thanks for being willing to help anyways though :D

Oh, sorry. I misread it as Neutral B. Uh... well, there are some match-ups where Sheik is better than Zelda (somehow). That's pretty much it.

 

[Samuelson]

lol

I know. I was joking. Dumb joke is dumb hahaha

I actually like Sheik more than Zelda

 

[Brinzy]

I actually like Mewtwo over Lucario, AAAAGH.


Judgment Hammer is pretty bad, actually...

 

[Blad01]

The only use i can see for useless moves (lol) is to scare the opponent a little bit... By example, a Falco that throws a DTilt out of nowhere can be pretty disappointing for the "anticipation of the opponent" part.

 

[Rashid]

There are like 10 characters that I rarely use, so I don't know about EVERY characters' useless moves. But here are some I know...

Mario's Dtilt: already discussed.
Luigi's downward Ftilt: Did anyone try this? It just stuns them in place like a knee lock, but the lag after the Ftilt itself makes you open.
Jiggly's jabs, Ftilt and Dtilt: If it isn't enough that Jiggly's an always-in-the-air character, those moves have pathetic knockback and have little-to-no use.
ZSS's F-smash: Slow, laggy, poor knockback for a smash attack.
DeDeDe's downB: Why bother? If the opponent's stunned, it's better (and faster) to just charge a F-smash.

Those are all I can think of right now. >.>

 

[Brinzy]

I think DDD's Down B is not all that bad. It's basically a moving smash attack that can be used for off-stage edgeguarding.

 

[Veril]

there is no reason to use Lucas' dash attack.

 

[sonic 12111]

there is no reason to use Lucas' dash attack.

set up neutral air at low percent. otherwise ???

 

[The_Blue_Bomber]

I dare you to try and find a situation where Lucas's Zair is useful.

Mindgames, son!

 

[Browny]

lucas uptaunt is the ultimate mindgame

 

[Glick]

Sing has use. I use it often as a ledge canceled move. I can make people fall asleep at the ledge. Also doubles.

Jigglypuffs ftilt is one of those, gtfo out of my face moves. If a snake gets too close and your about to get ftilted you ftilt them. Its sorta quick yet horrible.

dtilt is absolutely useless.

And now that were talking about it, rest is pretty useless too lmao.

God jigglypuff is so terrible.

 

[Brinzy]

Rest probably should not have been nerfed.

 

[Eddie G]

Rest probably should not have been nerfed.

Agreed. Now it's mainly useful at higher percentages and connected from a dair or from under a platform at mid-high percentages depending on the matchup and location. It used to be her beloved trump card of ****, now it's...decent...

 

[Yuna]

Agreed. Now it's mainly useful at higher percentages and connected from a dair or from under a platform at mid-high percentages depending on the matchup and location. It used to be her beloved trump card of ****, now it's...decent...

What, with the lack of decent hitstun, the nerfing of Jiggz in general, the lack of throw-combos and the lack of crouch-canceling, Rest now is kinda... not that good.

 

[whopper_no_onion]

Jigglypuff's Dtilt is not that uselss. It seems to trip quite often. I like to follow up with a dash attack or a dash grab... It also makes jigglypuff crouch, and i've accidentally avoided attacks while using it, lol

 

[Adler]

For me, Zero Suit Samus' Final Smash (it turns her into a Worse Character).

on a more serious note. Errr...
I find Jigglypuff's Pound rather useless (Rising pound is too difficult and it doesn't have any good Range or Power).

 

[Son1x-]

Ugh, Pound is one of the Jiggly's most useful moves.

 

[Snail]

Err, in my opinion "perhaps a decent option in some very awkward situation" =/= useful... And the thread title still asks whether all moves can be useful.

They can all be used, but... <_<

 

[RyanPF]

All moves are useful. I could think of a use for any move.

 

[Zankoku]

Why would anyone intentionally use Marth's backthrow when his downthrow is way better and sends in virtually the same direction? I don't understand.

And I hear there's this rumor that people use Zelda's Down+B. What are those people thinking?

 

[RyanPF]

Stale move?

 

[Justblaze647]

Stale move?

Even with stale moves... I doubt Zelda should have any trouble killing... ever.

 

[RyanPF]

Even with stale moves... I doubt Zelda should have any trouble killing... ever.

I meant Marth's B-throw as opposed to his D-throw.

 

[Justblaze647]

I meant Marth's B-throw as opposed to his D-throw.

Oh. I never use either of those throws... f-throw sets up for a wall of f-airs/all of Marth's approaches... and I use up throw to bait air dodges...

 

[Eddie G]

What, with the lack of decent hitstun, the nerfing of Jiggz in general, the lack of throw-combos and the lack of crouch-canceling, Rest now is kinda... not that good.

Well rest itself is still usable for a kill at a decent percent depending on the matchup and stage. It's mainly the lead-ins that suck simply because there are so few now, well...relatively non-existent beyond the dair lead-in. You're right though, Rest is still...not so great...