Why does the Smash community have a stigma against sword-wielders?

[meleebrawler]

Swordfighters are simply boring now. Change my mind.

Don't see why we should waste energy trying to change one person's tastes in gameplay, especially when we have 70+ options.

Smells more like bait for those who do like the Fire Emblem content to me, because saying "change my mind" already sends the message you're unwilling. We can't MAKE someone like a playstyle.

 

[Luigifan18]

Link plz.

Sure. Here you go.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Swordfighters are simply boring now. Change my mind.

Better question: Why should we try to change your mind?

You already have your viewpoint anchored under preconceived notions, and those kinds of people become oblivious to new information.

 

[Luigifan18]

Better question: Why should we try to change your mind?

You already have your viewpoint anchored under preconceived notions, and those kinds of people become oblivious to new information.

See also: Crazy Hand 2001 (the guy who made the thread complaining about Nintendo Switch Online).

 

[YoshiandToad]

Better question: Why should we try to change your mind?

Because it can lead to discussion and creativity? I dunno, we're all wasting time on the internet, why the hell not?

Swordfighters are simply boring now. Change my mind.

You know what? Let me give this a go. I'm not a big fan of typical swordsmen so I got to think of why. I hate to say it, but the reason so few people have less awful opinions on Metaknights inclusion over say Shulk comes down to aesthetics.

Metaknight gives us something that isn't a realistic proportioned human being. What if we had swordsmen options that were a little different? For this I'm going to suggest some Pokemon options I thought of off the top of my head.

Scyther has swords for HANDS. This incredibly coo lookingl praying mantis/dinosaur mix up with BLADES FOR GODDAMN HANDS would be something a bit more unique and different swordsman wise. Similar to Lyn, it's been showcased capable of creating copies of itsself and with speedy ninja style strikes and wings he'd be capable of fighting very different from your average swordie.

"But YoshiandToad, Scyther hasn't got swords for hands, he has scythes. Also he's not a final form Pokemon." I hear you cry. WELL WORRY NOT. The Pokemon company has something else similar that may be able to help your stickler nature, introducing Gallade:

Unlike Scyther Gallade has gone on record as having BLADES FOR ELBOWS, and can mix in some vaguely telekinetic powers alongside his physical swordsmanship to create a fun blade user with a fair amount of options available. Can you imagine what is essentially a samurai with psychic powers?
Gallade is said to create gusts of wind with his attacks as well, allowing for a windbox moveset.

Gallade even has a Mega form which ups his blades to eleven as well as giving him a very heroic cape:

If none of these are to your liking Pokemon does of course have one more sword option available. Maybe you're not keen on swords for hands or elbows? What if the Swordsman...was actually a sword?

Introducing Aegislash:

This Pokemon is a literal sword, but ALSO a stance fighter something many people have asked for more of. Capable of using a shield and sword to fight(well it IS a sword and shield) you have a character who combines the two most common character types; a Brawler and Swordsman by having the sword use it's body to fight.

Aegislash is also half ghost allowing for some potentially interesting rolls and dodges teleporting it to safety.

These three Pokemon swordsman all offer unique playstyles whilst remaining swordsmen and add a little spicy variety to the sword wielding Smash populace. If it doesn't change your mind on swordsmen as a whole, fair enough, but we have options with unique skills and interesting looks available just in Pokemon alone.

 

[Luigifan18]

Because it can lead to discussion and creativity? I dunno, we're all wasting time on the internet, why the hell not?



You know what? Let me give this a go. I'm not a big fan of typical swordsmen so I got to think of why. I hate to say it, but the reason so few people have less awful opinions on Metaknights inclusion over say Shulk comes down to aesthetics.

Metaknight gives us something that isn't a realistic proportioned human being. What if we had swordsmen options that were a little different? For this I'm going to suggest some Pokemon options I thought of off the top of my head.


View attachment 169135
Scyther has swords for HANDS. This incredibly coo lookingl praying mantis/dinosaur mix up with BLADES FOR GODDAMN HANDS would be something a bit more unique and different swordsman wise. Similar to Lyn, it's been showcased capable of creating copies of itsself and with speedy ninja style strikes and wings he'd be capable of fighting very different from your average swordie.

"But YoshiandToad, Scyther hasn't got swords for hands, he has scythes. Also he's not a final form Pokemon." I hear you cry. WELL WORRY NOT. The Pokemon company has something else similar that may be able to help your stickler nature, introducing Gallade:


View attachment 169137
Unlike Scyther Gallade has gone on record as having BLADES FOR ELBOWS, and can mix in some vaguely telekinetic powers alongside his physical swordsmanship to create a fun blade user with a fair amount of options available. Can you imagine what is essentially a samurai with psychic powers?
Gallade is said to create gusts of wind with his attacks as well, allowing for a windbox moveset.

Gallade even has a Mega form which ups his blades to eleven as well as giving him a very heroic cape:

View attachment 169139

If none of these are to your liking Pokemon does of course have one more sword option available. Maybe you're not keen on swords for hands or elbows? What if the Swordsman...was actually a sword?

Introducing Aegislash:
View attachment 169140
This Pokemon is a literal sword, but ALSO a stance fighter something many people have asked for more of. Capable of using a shield and sword to fight(well it IS a sword and shield) you have a character who combines the two most common character types; a Brawler and Swordsman by having the sword use it's body to fight.

Aegislash is also half ghost allowing for some potentially interesting rolls and dodges teleporting it to safety.

These three Pokemon swordsman all offer unique playstyles whilst remaining swordsmen and add a little spicy variety to the sword wielding Smash populace. If it doesn't change your mind on swordsmen as a whole, fair enough, but we have options with unique skills and interesting looks available just in Pokemon alone.

In before "Pokémon is overrepresented!!1!"

 

[Tbro]

I like Swords, but I wish other weapons got more representation, particularly guns, axes, and whips (super excited for Simon and Richter btw lol)

 

[Sabertooth]

Wow, YoshiandToad just schooled everyone.

To be fair using Pokemon is almost cheating--with over 800 of them there's bound to be something for every fighting style. Are there any other non-conventional swordfighters in other series? Maybe Dark Matter from Kirby.

 

[meleebrawler]

Wow, YoshiandToad just schooled everyone.

To be fair using Pokemon is almost cheating--with over 800 of them there's bound to be something for every fighting style. Are there any other non-conventional swordfighters in other series? Maybe Dark Matter from Kirby.

At what point does this "less human swordsmen" argument slip into "less humans period"? It just seems wrong to discriminate on such a superficial aspect. At any rate I can only think of Amaterasu as a notable non-humanoid sword-wielder (although actual sword moves would only be a third at most.)

Risky Boots's main weaon is a scimitar, but she also uses guns and cannons in intersting ways.

I only really care about weapon diversity in games like Soulcalibur that are all about weapons.

 

[Sabertooth]

Less human swordsmen, less humans period, I'm fine with either. Give me more weirdos.

 

[Alsyght]

It just seems like people hate them because of how frequently they’re used in casual and tournament play. They have reach as with Ike, power as with Marth, and spammability by the likes of Metanight.

Ganon has a sword now. He’s a sword fighter. Does that make him bad?

Don’t answer.

Spoiler

Gimme more mallets. Mallets and guns.

Give King Dedede a gun. Maybe he’ll be good.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Because it can lead to discussion and creativity? I dunno, we're all wasting time on the internet, why the hell not?

Thing is, if you go to the previous pages, discussion has been had. The problem is when one side constantly dismisses and handwaves any opposing arguments that doesn't suit their views, so they become hermetic to any new information that challenges their stances. That's when the discussion starts going nowhere, a case of immense force vs unmovable object.
And the phrase "I just find swords boring" is a subjective statement, therefore it forsakes any semblance of objectivity which is necessary in any discussion. If you don't like swords, then it would silly to tell you that you are wrong, but if you think sword characters are bad for the game then you need to be objective and not rely on straw-manning. "Change my mind" reinforces your subjectivity because you are letting us know based on previous posts that your mind is closed to everything, and that you arrogantly think that is a sign of strenght when it reality it is a sign of weakness. When facts change, people's minds do so as well.

 

[Ardisan]

The issue I have with sword wielders really just comes from the Fire Emblem roster. A lot of the characters share a lot from each other except for Robin, Corrin, and Ike. There are pretty much 3 Fire Emblem sword wielders that take moves from Marth in some shape or form. Fire Emblem, a series in which there are many weapons such as Swords/Katanas, Tomes/Scrolls, Axes/Clubs, Bows/Yumi, Lances/Naginata, and Daggers/Shurikens. The only ones to be used were mostly swords, a tome user, and I think a lance user (Not sure what Corrins weapon is).

 

[YoshiandToad]

Wow, YoshiandToad just schooled everyone.

To be fair using Pokemon is almost cheating--with over 800 of them there's bound to be something for every fighting style. Are there any other non-conventional swordfighters in other series? Maybe Dark Matter from Kirby.

Outside Pokemon I can think of a few other examples.

Filling a similar niche to Honedge(that niche being the swordsman IS a sword itself), Ghirahim the Demon Sword is an option that whilst humanoid is clearly a race outside of a regular human with his bizarre manerisms, magic and movements.

Ghirahim, the popular villain from Zelda. Not only uses a sword, he IS a demon sword. He has been shown to be able to teleport, use magic to levitate things, throw kunai and smaller knives through demonic power making him an effective ranged swordsman. He has the ability to bestow life upon inanimate objects and transform objects into monsters and minions. Ghirahim could easily fill several fighting types whilst being a blade user(and a blade) including a stance fighter, a projectile heavy swordsman, a trapper with his demonic powers or even a summoner.

Spoiler: His sword form

Similarly we have Fi, Ghirahim's good counterpart who is essentially the avatar for Link's most famous weapon, the Master Sword.

She, like Ghirahim has some level of psychic powers and in Hyrule Warriors at least can transform freely between her above form and her blade form. She attacks in that game like a graceful dancer, using his body to strike opponents...but do keep in mind she's a sword still.

To avoid this becoming too Zelda heavy, there's also the one you mentioned; Dark Matter

Dark Matter is capable of flying, transforming into other forms and also possessing and altering the DNA of hosts he infects. He can rapid fire dark energy balls out the tip of his blade and forming large balls of dark energy to chase down his opponent. The clone of him in Kirby: Planet Robobot also seems to be able to fire dark lasers out of the eye which he can shift down to his chest.

Dark Matter is also one of the more reoccurring Kirby villains, so he'd, IMO at least, be a solid swordsman choice.

There's also Morpho Knight, but he's still a bit spoileriffic still.

 

[Ardisan]

Okay now I'll be so down for Dark Matter being in Smash after Bandana Dee with his spear.

 

[LostEggs]

Oh here's a bit of data to silence gainsayers when it comes to sword fighters. (Granted I didn't count Pit and Dank Pit) but of the 14 sword fighters out of 68 fighters thus far that's only 5%(rounding the 4. % up) of the roster. So the next time someone tries to shoot down characters like Black Knight or Sephiroth just say there's less than 15% of the roster who use swords. The excuse of "there's too many sword user's" is an objective fallacy.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

...but of the 14 sword fighters out of 68 fighters thus far that's only 9.52% of the roster.

I’m no expert, but I think you did your math wrong if you think only 9.52% of the roster are sword fighters.

 

[Luigifan18]

I’m no expert, but I think you did your math wrong if you think only 9.52% of the roster are sword fighters.

He did screw the math up. "68 fighters" doesn't account for Echoes, and we have 2 Echoes who are swordfighters () — 3 if you count . The remaining 3 Echoes () use minimal amounts of blade/slashing/stabbing weaponry in their movesets, and definitely no swords. (That's partially on me for not noticing his mistake while referring him to this thread — whoops.)

 

[LostEggs]

I’m no expert, but I think you did your math wrong if you think only 9.52% of the roster are sword fighters.

Thanks for the call out, never was that great at Math. Guess the main point being the actual number of sword users is tiny compared to other archetypes in Smash already.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

He did. "68 fighters" doesn't account for Echoes, and we have 2 Echoes who are swordfighters () — 3 if you count . The remaining 3 Echoes () use minimal amounts of blade/slashing/stabbing weaponry in their movesets, and definitely no swords. (That's partially on me for not noticing his mistake while referring him to this thread — whoops.)

Even in the most generous way possible excluding , :ultrobin, and echo fighters while counting as three separate fighters, the percent of sword fighters still comes out to be 15.87%. There's no way he's getting 9.52% on correct math.

 

[Sabertooth]

It's more that they're all really similar, not just that there are a lot of them. Nobody complains about Meta Knight.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

So there are 74 fighters total. 14 of them () use swords. 14 / 74 = 0.189189. So that's about 19% of the roster. Just barely less than 1/5. I didn't count because his sword was just added to his Smash attacks, and and use a bow for their sword and use Flame Sword for one move. And uses small sharp objects. But if you count them all, that's still 24% of the roster. Maybe close to 1/4 but I don't think a quarter would be too much

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

It's more that they're all really similar, not just that there are a lot of them. Nobody complains about Meta Knight.

It’s funny you mention that, because I complain about Meta Knight, not because of him using a sword, but going from playing him in Brawl to playing him in Smash 4, he’s boring as ****.

The only tools he has to play with in neutral are dash attack and dash grab. No variance in style, as most of his other stuff is unsafe or doesn’t hit well.

Compare this to characters like Marth and Lucina, who mirror one another, but with Marth’s Tipper mechanic and Lucina retaining base knockback in through out her whole sword, they play entirely differently.

Robin I’m general is a unique character in its own regard.

If you are saying they are similar, I’m assuming you only mean in looks; anime pretty boy, right?

Because players who have familiarized themselves with the characters through gameplay would say otherwise.

Some of these characters look similar, yes, but at the end of the day it’s the gameplay that matters.

Everything that was great, unique or fun about Meta Knight disappeared with Brawl.

 

[Oddball]

If you are saying they are similar, I’m assuming you only mean in looks; anime pretty boy, right?

Because players who have familiarized themselves with the characters through gameplay would say otherwise.

Some of these characters look similar, yes, but at the end of the day it’s the gameplay that matters.

Maybe people that take the time to get used to playing with them would disagree that they are similiar, but there isn't much incentive for people to want to get used to playing with them if the initial impression is that they are just cookie cutter characters.

I'm also going to have to disagree that it's the gameplay that matters. Yes, gameplay does matter, but it's just a part of a characters appeal.

When picking characters there are multiple questions people ask before you even get into their first fight.
Do I know this character or does this character look cool? For starters. In Fire Emblem's case the answers are most likely going to be "no" and "they look kinda like all those other characters" two strikes against it before the character is even picked.

 

[osby]

Maybe people that take the time to get used to playing with them would disagree that they are similiar, but there isn't much incentive for people to want to get used to playing with them if the initial impression is that they are just cookie cutter characters.

I'm also going to have to disagree that it's the gameplay that matters. Yes, gameplay does matter, but it's just a part of a characters appeal.

When picking characters there are multiple questions people ask before you even get into their first fight.
Do I know this character or does this character look cool? For starters. In Fire Emblem's case the answers are most likely going to be "no" and "they look kinda like all those other characters" two strikes against it before the character is even picked.

I don't know why people are so bothered by the movesets of characters they don't even play then.

 

[Luigifan18]

I don't know why people are so bothered by the movesets of characters they don't even play then.

Because if those characters didn't exist, characters they like could be in the game instead.

 

[praline]

It's because they're dumb.

 

[osby]

It's because they're dumb.

Are you sure?

https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/4/41/SSBUWebsiteToonLink5.jpg

They look pretty intelligent to me.

 

[Sabertooth]

To be fair if there's a character in the game you don't like, you can't just ignore it. Sure you don't have to play as them, but you'll still have to face that character in all the in-game modes and versus real people. It can be annoying fighting characters with the same kinds of moves over and over again.

 

[osby]

To be fair if there's a character in the game you don't like, you can't just ignore it. Sure you don't have to play as them, but you'll still have to face that character in all the in-game modes and versus real people. It can be annoying fighting characters with the same kinds of moves over and over again.

That's applicable to any character one might not like aka every character on the roster. If you don't like swordfighters, again there are other common fighter archetypes that others might not like.

For example, I don't like how many characters have the same over-the-head-kick up-air.

 

[gr33nsl33v3s]

Hi! Huge sword-hater here. I think they're all ******* and should go play soul calibuer or however the **** you spell that horrible game title. I actuially have a distaste for weapons in general unless your character naturally creates them.

They do seem to take up a quarter of the roster though so that's where it probably comes from.

Oh also forgot . So that's 14.

As far as this quote.... There are a whopping TWENTY-THREE characters with swords. That's more characters than most fighting games total and is ONE-THIRD of the roster, PLUS THEY HAVE DISJOINTED HITBOXES AND ARE OVERALL TOO EASY TO PLAY AND BE DECENT WITH. M<y brother picked up Ultimate on release and beat myself with Chrom more than 50% of the time and I've been playing this game since the 64 days. So **** swords. I also hate anime and think its for losers. On top of all of that, they seem to have a bro-ish attitude and a too-cool-for-school archetype which draws the most douchey players to main them (There are some exceptions)

P.S. I also think the Pokemon are overall too good. If you put them and the swords together, it's LITERALLY HALF THE GAME. I like diversity. Fight me.

1. Elf Marth (Link) Actually not that annoying. Got huge buffs in this game though and can oppress the **** out of you with bombs and edgeguard. Really didn't need these buffs imho, since disjoints are already OP, but mayube I got a soft-spot for Link. Also kills craaaaazy early.

2. Puffball Marth (Kirby) Don't even pretend his up b is not abused and isn't a sword. So is his FS.

3. Goddess Marth (Zelda) On a technicality, yes, she has an attack that uses a sword. But I would still like to be clear the devs LOVE swords.

4. Marth (Marth) Tipper mechanic, real fast, decent recovery, not overtly easy to master, but still too easy to play imo

5. Girl Marth (Lucina) Everything above only even EASIER.

6. Young Elf Marth (Young Link) Pretty damn annoying. Fast, multiple projectiles like Big Daddy Link and only downside is not as many kill confirms. The one and only sword character I MIGHT try one day if ever I see less than 100 online a day and isn't sick of him.

7. Gerudo Marth (Ganondorf) Literally the most buffed character ever. Kills at like 45% with his upsmash, so dumb, can't escape his grab, so unnecessary what was done to him.

8. Fiery Marth (Roy) Arguably the best swordsman, has decent recovery and reflect, very versatile, no too much in the downside department. Oh yeah, of course not, he's got a sword.

9. Hipster Marth (Chrom) So a buttload of them online during launch until I literally got so sick of crushing them one after the other I changed my tag to "ChromBlows". I think he is far and away the fastest and most noob friendly with an abominable and easily gimpable recovery, but now that I hardly see people playing him online, I don't get to laugh as much. Oh well. Chrom blows.

10. Puff Knight Marth (Meta Knight) Boy was he ever nerfed. Maybe the one sword character I can't say is that noob friendly or good OR I even mind fighting. He may have some hidden tech yet, but it doesn't seem that way. Probably gets drunk with Bayo on the weekends.

11. Angel Marth (Pit) I don't care what you say, those are ****ing swords! The most annoying thing about him is that side b that out-prioritizes EVERY GODDAMN MOVE. So stupid. Great recovery, but I don't seem him mained locally at all.

12. Evil Angel Marth (Dark Pit) I know the slight differences between him and his melanin defficient protege, but I fight both the same way. Same.

13. Ogre Marth (Ike) A good Ike can really make you put your tongue in the blender. He out-prioritizes ALOT but is a little balanced in his slow frame data and speed. That up b though is sooooo goddamn oppressive.

14. Cartoon Elf Marth (Toon Link) Not represented much, does more damage and has good projectiles too, Honestly I feel the Links are most balanced, but I may be biased.

15. Frog Marth (Greninja) A reaaallly scary character in the skilled pro's hands. Otherwise, they usually get stomped online. Good ledgeguarding and projectiles. The teleport has to be watched out for.

16. Surfer Marth (Shulk) High skill ceiling here. Can be a total pain if mastered or a joke. He's close to Link in balance, the only move I hate is (like many characters) his side b. Too much knockback.

17. Spends way too much time on his hair and not learning English Marth (Cloud) I despise everything about him. Literally every other match I play against someone online is a Cloud main, and the only way I can guarantee a win is to use G&W, bc he destroys Cloud by eating blade beam and vomiting oil in his face and then inevitably ledgetrapping Cloud to his ultimate doom. BUT... I do not believe he was nerfed at all. Even though his limit only lasts 15 secs, he gets it back so fast it doesn't matter. His moves are all too strong, he's too fast, he takes priority on almost all his tilts and smash attacks and he HAS A ****ING PROJECTILE. Not OP at all. Ya ok. Totally nerfed.

18. Dragon Marth (Corrin) Pretty well-rounded but really weak if you stay above her. Just seems overall worse in terms of sword options.

19. Self-Identifying Marth (Mii Swordfighter) Has a really good confirm and some custom options, not relied on by the meta very heavily at the moment,,, But might be good later, who knows?

20.-28. PokeMarths (Pikachu, Pichu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Lucario, Incineroar) I dare anyone here to tell me every single one of these aren't a ****ing nuisance as well. I'm not going into details on each, but why isn't there ONE BAD POKEMON??? Just ONE???

Even though this is mostly a joke rant, my biggest gripe with ultimate is its lack of diversity. If you removed swords and non-humans, this is who is left:

Mario
Luigi
Peach/Daisy
Ness/Lucas
Captain Falcon
Wario
Snake (named after an animal though lol)
Villager
Little Mac
Robin
Ryu/Ken
Simon/Richter

Only 12 characters out of 76 are human and don't use swords. WTF.

P.S. I'm not counting echoes like Peach/Daisy Ryu/Ken and Ness/Lucas twice, but I listed them. Somethings WRONG people.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, SNAKE ISN'T HUMAN!!!! There you have it, there are OFFICIALLY ELEVEN CHARACTERS who are human/don't use swords. THAT'S EFFED UP PAPA SAKURAI

 

[Nepht]

I've never understood why this community has such a dis-taste for characters that wield-swords. It just seems ridiculous to me. Why all the hate? What's wrong with characters the have swords as a weapon?

I don't think its hate I think its boredom when it comes to swords. So many swords in the game. What this game needs is someone that wields a Phillips screwdriver or a claw hammer. Either are good.

 

[gr33nsl33v3s]

I don't think its hate I think its boredom when it comes to swords. So many swords in the game. What this game needs is someone that wields a Phillips screwdriver or a claw hammer. Either are good.

HYES! Dr. Who is approaching...

 

[NGW]

Too many of them, very "weeby/neckbeardy", favored by tryhard types, etc.

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't think its hate I think its boredom when it comes to swords. So many swords in the game. What this game needs is someone that wields a Phillips screwdriver or a claw hammer. Either are good.

I like the way you think.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I don't think its hate I think its boredom when it comes to swords. So many swords in the game. What this game needs is someone that wields a Phillips screwdriver or a claw hammer. Either are good.

You. I like you. Keep talking.

 

[R O F L]

In terms of gameplay, sword users are a variant of the most common type of fighter, melee fighters. Melee fighters are anyone that primarily use non-projectiles, non-grabs, and non-gimmicky attacks. They only difference from sword fighter and regular melee fighters are that the sword character's range and speed, they have more disjointed range but have less speed. Think about it, do you see any difference between sword characters and other melee fighters other than their range and speed?

I'll give you a list of all "sword" characters: . These are all characters who have lots of disjoint attacks and play similar to sword fighters, do you see people complaining about Mewtwo, Bowser Jr., Game & Watch, King Dedede, and Ivysaur? No? Then these people aren't complaining about them in terms of gameplay, but are complaining about them because "I want MY character/s, and MY character/s doesn't/don't use a sword!!!." If you're complaining about "anime" fighters or Fire Emblem characters, then use them in your arguments instead of sword users.

This is a silly argument if you're not talking about them in terms of gameplay, anyone who says this clearly just doesn't want "insert character/s".

If you're complaining about them in terms of gameplay, i'd say you're fine.

Also, to anyone who wants spear of axe users, i'd like to say that they'd be no different from swords. All they could do different is change some properties any other sword user could use, like swing speed or weapon length. Spears could also have a sweet spot gimmick, but we know Marth already has that gimmick so it wouldn't be very unique. IMO fencers and dual sword users would put a good spin on sword users, not spears or axes.
It's fine to want spear/axe users, just don't user "He/She/It's a Spear/Axe user" as an argument towards your character.

 

[Deleted member]

Its really more toward Fire Emblem characters and Cloud than swordey's in general and it's just because they have disjointed hitboxes and go well with the engine when we learn more counter play everyone will get over it

 

[Sabertooth]

I think it's disingenuous to lump a lot of those characters in with the swordfighters. Bowser Jr has an attack where he sends a drone across the floor. Mewtwo has an attack where he paralyzes you. All of Ness's specials are magical attacks. I see what you're getting at, but I think you're overestimating just how many characters are "basically sword users".

 

[R O F L]

I think it's disingenuous to lump a lot of those characters in with the swordfighters. Bowser Jr has an attack where he sends a drone across the floor. Mewtwo has an attack where he paralyzes you. All of Ness's specials are magical attacks. I see what you're getting at, but I think you're overestimating just how many characters are "basically sword users".

So can other Sword users not have unique attacks? Cloud has limit, but people still consider him a filthy sword user, Corrin had the first hitbox while charging a smash attack, a unique pin gimmick, and a projectile that can stun, yet people still hate him/her, Marth has tipper, a unique mechanic which makes him play differently from other sword users, people still hate him.

The main difference between Ness, Mewtwo, Bowser Jr. and Cloud, Corrin, Marth are that the latter are "anime sword users."