If by best, you mean, "pretty good, useful, above average, and the animation is just the bee's knees", then you'd be correct.
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Who has the best/worst jab in the game?
- Thread starter WhatIsRaizen?
- Start date
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
....Except for the fact that the hitstun is so low on it that you can interrupt Falco's jab combo with a jab of your own as long as it's frame 3 or quicker, like how Ninjalink did against one Falco using Ike.
Ike has the best Jab. Best % damage, third most killing power for a jab, most reliable Jab Canceling options (and probably second most devastating jab canceling options), great range for a jab, frame 3, most hitstun for a jab, combat walking......it's simply the best.
I disagree here. Lucario, Snake, CF, Luigi, Peach, Mario, and many others have options AT LEAST on par with Ike's jab canceling options.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
That is because the Falco made an error and was probably tapping the button rathe rthan holding it down.
You can interrupt samus' though.
Indeed.
Falcon is a close second.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
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- 6,860
Best as in "best".
Falco's jab has good range, insane priority, a crazy hitbox, (those three combined cancels out several solid aerial approaches/spacing moves, which can be jab canceled into other attacks really easily), it has a solid jab cancel (don't give me any bull about interrupting it with other jabs all the time. It's fast/quick enough to catch every good player/pro off guard- even Ninjalink. I bet Ninjalink was spamming jab inputs before he saw Falco's jab anyways; that's all Ike can do up close against a good Falco, lol.), 2 frame startup, and an infinite jab that can set up for other attacks.
Ike's is good too, though. No sane person would say otherwise. The problem I have with it is that a lot of the jab cancel followups I've seen rely on bad DI, sort of like Luigi's jab->upb on some characters (on some it's guaranteed though), except without as much speed. Ike certainly has one of the best jab cancel followup games, but's that's not all a jab is about. Falco's is better in pretty much every other category, I think, besides damage and knockback- the latter of which isn't really important.
edit: I swear I saw a hyperlink and clicked on it... <_<
*confused*
Falco's jab has good range, insane priority, a crazy hitbox, (those three combined cancels out several solid aerial approaches/spacing moves, which can be jab canceled into other attacks really easily), it has a solid jab cancel (don't give me any bull about interrupting it with other jabs all the time. It's fast/quick enough to catch every good player/pro off guard- even Ninjalink. I bet Ninjalink was spamming jab inputs before he saw Falco's jab anyways; that's all Ike can do up close against a good Falco, lol.), 2 frame startup, and an infinite jab that can set up for other attacks.
Ike's is good too, though. No sane person would say otherwise. The problem I have with it is that a lot of the jab cancel followups I've seen rely on bad DI, sort of like Luigi's jab->upb on some characters (on some it's guaranteed though), except without as much speed. Ike certainly has one of the best jab cancel followup games, but's that's not all a jab is about. Falco's is better in pretty much every other category, I think, besides damage and knockback- the latter of which isn't really important.
Was that necessary? I haven't seen either movie yet... >_>
edit: I swear I saw a hyperlink and clicked on it... <_<
*confused*
smashkng
Smash Lord
Best priority jab has Snake. It's amazing.
Luigi's jab is amazing. I thought it was a 1 frame jab. It has high hitstun and it can set up a Fire Jump Punch.
I think all jabs that can lock a downed opponent are amazing (Luigi's one can't though).
Luigi's jab is amazing. I thought it was a 1 frame jab. It has high hitstun and it can set up a Fire Jump Punch.
I think all jabs that can lock a downed opponent are amazing (Luigi's one can't though).
Samus can jab lock, and her's is absolute garbage.
JUDGE
Smash Lord
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- May 24, 2009
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- 1,015
wait guys
i wouldn't say ike's jab is the best
cuz there are characters like mario or marth who can comes out of ikes jab ( with up b cuz it comes out on frame 3 with 3 invincibility frames)
because of that i would say snakes jab is the best
it has also a bigger knockback then ikes jab so it is better killing move^^
i wouldn't say ike's jab is the best
cuz there are characters like mario or marth who can comes out of ikes jab ( with up b cuz it comes out on frame 3 with 3 invincibility frames)
because of that i would say snakes jab is the best
it has also a bigger knockback then ikes jab so it is better killing move^^
Mario and Marth can both get out of the jabs, sure. But they can predict it, jab twice, then shield. Punish accordingly.
I also don't like having to say this. Snake's jab will never kill you. You aren't going to be at a kill percentage and not be able to just get out before the third hit.
JUDGE
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 24, 2009
- Messages
- 1,015
i know that they can predict it but we are just talking about the jabs
and snakes last kick is faster then ikes last swing so it is much harde for a mario or marth to react fast enough for making a up b
and of course you can kill with snakes jab
... did you do everything possible to ignore what I was saying?
You won't be killed by Snake's jab because the last part of it will never hit you.
JUDGE
Smash Lord
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ok then how about that:
snakes jab cancelling is much more effective than ikes cuz his tilts are faster
That has nothing to do with how good their jabs are.
Ike can just Jab Cancel into more jabs. You can still get out of it before Snake tilts, it's not guaranteed by any means. Like you said, Mario or Marth can just break right out.
JUDGE
Smash Lord
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i know but it is a technique that is based on their jabs
so it does has something to do with it
It has nothing to do with the jab itself. The rating system goes something along the lines of this.
- Speed
- Priority
- Damage
- Killing Potential
- Range
They both share these same qualities, and excel at them. I could care less about who has the best. All I know is, these two could easily tie for greatest jabs. Though if I had to choose, I'd probably go with Ike.
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
Wait a minute. Your post as a whole suggests that you don't care about the jabs, yet you say that 'you could care less', which implies that you DO care about it because it would be possible for you to care less about it. Do you mean that you 'couldn't care less' about them?
But yeah, other than that, I agree with you. Snake and Ike have the best jabs overall.
Look at you, tactical's little detective.
Nah, I'm kidding. tl;dr version: Jab tier list is a horrible idea and I dislike the user that created this thread. I don't care about the position they're put it. Other than the top 2, it's debatable.
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
Don't worry, Straked, I was just being a bit of a *******. It's just that I really don't like the expression...
Don't be too harsh on the topic creator though. We were all new to the smashboards at some point, and didn't realise that people didn't like these things.
Don't be too harsh on the topic creator though. We were all new to the smashboards at some point, and didn't realise that people didn't like these things.
That's understandable. I don't like the phrase either, but that was a "for lack of a better word" moment.
I can also understand that. But this person doesn't learn. Time and time again have we said these are useless threads that don't belong in tactical. It's not like it's a problem, there's just too many of them.
SmashBrosForce
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 781
I think Jab Tier List is a Failed Idea too. The topic creator should put something intelligent about the real discussion (What's the Best Jab). He changed the focus of the real discussion.
Ike was mentioned many times as the character who has the best Jab.
I don't know why some people still believe that Snake's Jab is much better than Ike's Jab, since we can Shield the Last hit of Snake's Jab. It's a little bit hard, but you can shield.
lax guy5
Smash Journeyman
Pikachu has the worst for sure!
Wierd 'cuz my main (Pika) has the worst and my second (Ike) has the best.
Wierd 'cuz my main (Pika) has the worst and my second (Ike) has the best.
^^ That's cool!
One of my biggest pet peeves, right there. When people say "could" instead of "couldn't". Even people on television scripts say it incorrectly. >__<
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Um, this thread talks about how good a jab is itself, not what it could combo from.
orange/xd
Smash Ace
Lucas's should probably be low A or high B, his is the third fastest in the game (I think) and does a pretty solid 10%.
Sukai
Smash Champion
Well that's stupid.
Why judge jabs if we have to leave out potential usage of them?
Aren't we try to show who has the best? Then why not take into account all the things that make it the best?
kozimoto
Smash Journeyman
MK's jab is good. its ideal for punishing people who abuse dodging.
Circa
Smash Champion
If this happens, then I vote for Luigi's jab to be somewhere between S tier and god tier. Jab -> SHORYUKEN! is too good. I don't care if it doesn't work on every character in the game. It's still TOO GOOD.
lil cj
Smash Lord
Thats what Ive been trying to tell these people
in this thread lol
prince_of_darkness
Smash Cadet
Agreed.
I would rather list just how "good" a jab actually is rather than Squeeze out all possible beneficial discusion out of this thread, just to keep things the way they are...... >.<
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Jab -> Utilt = canceling into a move that's stronger then most smash attacks, and kills only a few % less then Snake's Up Tilt. Luigi beats it with firepunch, Snake's jab doesn't have enough hitstun to combo well into utilt. Ike's Jab to Utilt is nearly guaranteed. DI won't get you out of it, it has too much range. In fact, I can't remember a single time that jab -> utilt was AD'd, as thats the only way to avoid it after the jab hits. CF, Lucario, Peach, and Mario don't have anything on par with that. So yes, Ike either has the second most devastating or third most devastating jab cancel option in the game, depending on how doable Snake's Jab to Utilt/Ftilt is.
You act as if Ike's can't cancel out projectiles/approaches either. The only projectiles I can think of it doesn't cancel out are lasers and fully charged aura spheres.
Ike's jab has more range then Falcos for the first and third hit at least, and I would believe so for the second hit, the same priority if not better (which means it cancels out more approaches then Falco), better hitstun (Jab to grab is a true combo after all. No DI will save you from that. Jab1 to Jab1 is a true combo. Jab to Utilt isn't avoidable through DI), more options out of it....he loses in speed to Falco's jab, maybe in use against a wall depending on what can lock an opponent longer Ike's Jab1 or Falco's Jab3....and that's all I can think of.
Falco has a very useful jab, it's just not better.
As for the canceling out part: I never said all of the time, just that I've seen it happen. I don't remember seeing that happen against Ike. I've seen shielding the third hit before, but not actually attacking between two jabs without shielding.
Zephil
Smash Ace
... this will never end... my opinion
THE best: falco
The "**** this is like mario´s dtilt" jab: jiggly and samus
THE best: falco
The "**** this is like mario´s dtilt" jab: jiggly and samus
brinboy789
Smash Champion
sigh why are people even trying to say that MK's jab its good. its outright terrible, and if you see any half decent MK use it it was a mistake.
i'll admit, the speed is nice and the range is decent, but when you use it, your stuck using it for like half a second. hello? its like asking to be punished, not to mention if you actually know the character that your using, it should be easy to outprioritize/outrange it. your pretty much ASKING to be punished when your using MK's jab. the nado is much better at abusing dodges. the damage it does is atrocious too. its a terrible, useless move that has no use to meta's gameplay. bottom tier. if the OP ever gets updated
BurningCrusader777
Smash Journeyman
Wait, doesn't MK's jab come out in 8 frames? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's really slow for a jab.
Regardless, it probably is Ike. 3-frame activation. Full jab combo does 16% and is a true combo. Canceling the first hit nets you with a huge frame advantage. In that sense, it can KO because of the cancel into utilt, which IIRC is also a true combo.
Snake's is good for a jab reset because of range and priority similar to Ike's, but from what I remember, he has no guaranteed combos after it other than his second jab. Jab x3 is guaranteed on an aerial opponent outside of SDI, so it can KO.
Luigi also has a dangerous jab cancel game. Being able to KO most characters at 60% (lower?) off of a jab is a threat.
Regardless, it probably is Ike. 3-frame activation. Full jab combo does 16% and is a true combo. Canceling the first hit nets you with a huge frame advantage. In that sense, it can KO because of the cancel into utilt, which IIRC is also a true combo.
Snake's is good for a jab reset because of range and priority similar to Ike's, but from what I remember, he has no guaranteed combos after it other than his second jab. Jab x3 is guaranteed on an aerial opponent outside of SDI, so it can KO.
Luigi also has a dangerous jab cancel game. Being able to KO most characters at 60% (lower?) off of a jab is a threat.
Brado
Smash Lord
Pikachu does not have the worst by far, here is why-
- It has a big disjointed hitbox which hits far in front of him
- It's fast
- It can cause tripping
I'm not saying Pika's is one of the best, just not the worst by far.
So it's disjointed. It still has enough priority to stop Mario's Dtilt maybe.
It might be fast, but the damage output isn't the best. It can still be punished.
What good does that do?
Nobody ever claimed that it was the worst by far.
Just that it was bad and probably bottom tier. Pika has so many better options, jab is near useless.
dawgbowl
Smash Ace
stopping by to agree with everyone else, Lucas is definately low A tier for his jab its MADDD good and hits almost behind him (ok all his attacks do that lol)
Cool story, bro.
We all know it's good, we just never acknowledged it because it didn't matter at the time.
GwJ
Smash Hero
Not by far. Like there's this massive gap inbetween
Also, nice avatar.
GwJ
Smash Hero
I do my best.