Who does MK have trouble with?

[Affinity]

10char? uhhh...what?

"10char" is what's typed so the 10 character minimum can be met when posting.

 

[Gindler]

Wow, that was an awesome vid mentioned earlier. Looked like the barrels really do home in =P

But yeah, diddy might be my worst matchup with any character pretty much. beside diddy, dittos are always ridiculous.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

woops, wrong thread, nvm me

 

[Shy Guy 86]

The closest things to counters will be Snake and DK, to a lesser extent Diddy, G&W, Falco, Lucario and other Spacies(sorta)

 

[KosukeKGA]

When will people realize the truth?

Brawl is very unbalanced. MK has no bad to possibly very few even matchups.

MK can't have trouble with anyone if he just spams. It's so gay and boring.

 

[Affinity]

MK can't have trouble with anyone if he just spams.

Really? 'Cause every MK I've seen that "just spams" has gotten destroyed at tournaments I've been to.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Then they're not doing it right. They need to play smart camping as well.

 

[Affinity]

I consistently see the same fate for campy MK's as well.

Playing a campy/defensive MK is like playing a full-out offensive Snake: Its pointless.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Playing a campy/defensive MK...Its pointless

wat

I thought aggressive styles didn't work in Brawl.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. ._.

 

[HMD]

MK has trouble with Diddy

 

[KoJ]

wat

I thought aggressive styles didn't work in Brawl.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. ._.

Not to be an a**, but you just said there were no aggressive styles that worked in Brawl... On the Metaknight board. The irony is sickening. Metaknight has the best approach in the game, and it's the main reason he wins against projectiles and campers.

 

[Shadow 111]

hmmm.. why is everyone randomly saying that diddy is good against mk? i don't disagree.. but is there someone who has proved this to everyone recently ? it's funny cuz many ppl used to think diddy sucked against him.. which was completely wrong

 

[Scala]

It's because diddy's bananas knock MK out of his nado among other attacks.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Not to be an a**, but you just said there were no aggressive styles that worked in Brawl... On the Metaknight board. The irony is sickening. Metaknight has the best approach in the game, and it's the main reason he wins against projectiles and campers.

So having an approach with a spammable move = Aggressive?

 

[KoJ]

So having an approach with a spammable move = Aggressive?

No, having zero projectiles, amazing approach, and the requirement of being in the opponent's face all the time=Aggressive.

 

[Shadow 111]

It's because diddy's bananas knock MK out of his nado among other attacks.

haha... that is definitely not the reason why the matchup is bad... it's ******** how ppl can have reasoning such as "oh no.. if you uses a banana i cannot use mach torando the usual 10 times a stock! i'll actually have to decrease it to 3! .. this HAS to be a bad matchup."




btw- not aiming that insult at you Scala... i'm sure you heard this explanation going around from noobs on the boards that have come up with that solution.

i was hoping SOMEONE would come up with a better explanation though.

i thought most ppl would come up with an explanation like this though " well this diddy kong player beat this meta knight player so it has to be a good matchup for him"

 

[TKD]

MK's worst match-ups:

Diddy Kong 50/50
Metaknight 50/50
Snake 50/50
Donkey Kong 40/60
Falco 40/60

 

[isucklikehell]

MK's worst match up is MK

MK 50/50

but it all depends on who dodges first and
who lands the down smash first <3

 

[Kyas]

I hear that Donkey Kong is one of the few counters for both MK and Snake, but you have to be good, real good.

When will people realize the truth?

Brawl is very unbalanced. MK has no bad to possibly very few even matchups.

MK can't have trouble with anyone if he just spams. It's so gay and boring.

True, Brawl is sort of like complicated rock/paper/scissors, only MeteKnight is, like, crayons and for some reason crayons beat everything. Snake is sandwich, and that sucks, too.

However, the basis of winning is to be respected and recognized as the best. People do not respect spammers. That is what really holds MK back more than anything else: human dignity.

 

[Deathcarter]

No one has mentioned Pokemon Trainer yet? Meta Knight has the overall advantage, but each pokemon can compete decently against him.

Squirtle: Squirtle has less range, but his attacks are almost if not as fast as Meta's. A defensive, grounded Squirtle does not get "*****" by Meta. 4:6 or 35:65

Ivasaur: The only low tier character who can hold back Meta Knight. Good luck getting past the bair fence. Ftilt has as much range as most of Meta's ground attacks. Fsmash pretty much outranges all of Meta's attacks. And Uair is boss. However, once Ivy is off stage, instant stock loss for Pokemon Trainer. 4:6

Charizard: Meta Knight can juggle Charizard to hell and back. However, Charizard is a difficult character for Meta Knight to kill. Charizard will live to very high damages with good DI, and Charizard is no way "easy" for Meta Knight to edge guard. Charizard will have a VERY DIFFICULT time hitting Meta, but each hit equals 2-3 of Meta's ESPECIALLY when Meta is at high damage. Plus spacing on the ground is quite a bit less effective against Charizard's grab range which he will abuse in this matchup. 45:55 or 4:6

Pokemon Trainer does pretty well against the best in the game for a low tier character considering Meta Knight has a 65/35 or higher advantage against the majority of mid tier and lower. Meta Knight will have some trouble dealing with Pokemon Trainer (even though some parts of the Meta Knight pokedex entry do not sound right).

 

[Shadow 111]

No one has mentioned Pokemon Trainer yet? Meta Knight has the overall advantage, but each pokemon can compete decently against him.

Squirtle: Squirtle has less range, but his attacks are almost if not as fast as Meta's. A defensive, grounded Squirtle does not get "*****" by Meta. 4:6 or 35:65

Ivasaur: The only low tier character who can hold back Meta Knight. Good luck getting past the bair fence. Ftilt has as much range as most of Meta's ground attacks. Fsmash pretty much outranges all of Meta's attacks. And Uair is boss. However, once Ivy is off stage, instant stock loss for Pokemon Trainer. 4:6

Charizard: Meta Knight can juggle Charizard to hell and back. However, Charizard is a difficult character for Meta Knight to kill. Charizard will live to very high damages with good DI, and Charizard is no way "easy" for Meta Knight to edge guard. Charizard will have a VERY DIFFICULT time hitting Meta, but each hit equals 2-3 of Meta's ESPECIALLY when Meta is at high damage. Plus spacing on the ground is quite a bit less effective against Charizard's grab range which he will abuse in this matchup. 45:55 or 4:6

Pokemon Trainer does pretty well against the best in the game for a low tier character considering Meta Knight has a 65/35 or higher advantage against the majority of mid tier and lower. Meta Knight will have some trouble dealing with Pokemon Trainer (even though some parts of the Meta Knight pokedex entry do not sound right).

i have to disagree with you on that. i think the matchup is absolutely terrible for pokemon trainer. not one of them is even with him at all...

charizard is far too slow and gets comboed easily as you said.. also charizards recovery is also bad and easily gimped regardless of him having more jumps than a normal character.

squirtle- as you said is outranged .. recovery also stinks. and squirtle has worse kill moves thank mk (besides squirtles up smash) which means you can easily cap aerials which he can't get around because he is outranged... and then finish him off at a higher percent pretty easily.. or just gimp him early on with some dairs.

ivysaur- you can't really say that this is 4/3 can you? i mean cmon.... you said it yourself... once ivy is off the stage... DONE instant stock lose basically. even if he camps bairs at oyu you can air dodge through it and get an attack in with mk's amazing appproach.

as you see each of them is gimped ... and each of them has a different thing to wory about in this matchup.

i beat a really good PT player in tournament recently and honestly felt bad lol.. cuz the matchup just seemed so horrible that i would easily win because of my character and that we were on about the same skill level.

 

[dingding]

snake of course

 

[darkspatan117]

i don't know for marth but i heard there a special trick with the grab against mk

 

[Ulevo]

Characters with an advantage on Meta Knight are Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Falco, G&W, and Snake. I also have a personal theory that King Dedede has an advantage, but that's my whacky theory.

Characters that do okay against Meta Knight would be Lucario and to a lesser extent Marth.

Characters I have had a problem dealing with in the past as my Meta Knight would be Niko Ks Peach, and Minus's Lucas. They may have severe match up experience, but I certainly didn't feel overly advantageous here.

Every other character is at a disadvantage to Meta Knight, whether if it be a slight one or a severe one. All of a sudden, Meta Knight doesn't seem so God like.

Also, spamming Meta Knights get destroyed versus intelligent players. And being overly aggressive with Meta Knight will get you killed.

 

[darkspatan117]

But Ulevo why does Diddy have the advantage against MK?

 

[Ulevo]

Out of the entire post I made, Diddy Kong is the one I am most skeptical about, although many seem to view this as Diddys advantage. I would assume due to Bananas. It would mainly depend on who could gain the momentum in the match. I'm not overly experienced with regards to Diddy vs MK though.

 

[Shadow 111]

Out of the entire post I made, Diddy Kong is the one I am most skeptical about, although many seem to view this as Diddys advantage. I would assume due to Bananas. It would mainly depend on who could gain the momentum in the match. I'm not overly experienced with regards to Diddy vs MK though.

=/ then your post shouldn't say that he does counter pick meta knight.. it should just say that some ppl think that he does. but whatever. also.. with lucas... meta knight has a definite advantage especially because of the grab pummel chain grab. did you know about that? you can go across the entire stage with it and you should be alble to get a free dash attack in on your last grab (when you get close to the edge). his recovery can also be easily gimped.

 

[Stiyp.NewT]

=/ then your post shouldn't say that he does counter pick meta knight.. it should just say that some ppl think that he does. but whatever. also.. with lucas... meta knight has a definite advantage especially because of the grab pummel chain grab. did you know about that? you can go across the entire stage with it and you should be alble to get a free dash attack in on your last grab (when you get close to the edge). his recovery can also be easily gimped.

How many other characters can MK chain grab? Can you give me a link to a video or something to read on this as well?

 

[Affinity]

=/ then your post shouldn't say that he does counter pick meta knight.. it should just say that some ppl think that he does. but whatever. also.. with lucas... meta knight has a definite advantage especially because of the grab pummel chain grab. did you know about that? you can go across the entire stage with it and you should be alble to get a free dash attack in on your last grab (when you get close to the edge). his recovery can also be easily gimped.

MK... cannot... chaingrab...

Your opponent just needs to DI correctly; you won't be able to connect another D-throw.

 

[Stiyp.NewT]

Alright, I was confused by that quote.

 

[Shadow 111]

MK... cannot... chaingrab...

Your opponent just needs to DI correctly; you won't be able to connect another D-throw.

*sigh*.. i didn't say d throw chain grab.. grab pummel chain grab which is unnavoidable and has nothing to do with D.I. ... it can be done to lucas because once he breaks out of oyur grab you can instantly dash and grab again and repeat that till you reach the edge of the stage

 

[A2ZOMG]

Snake, G&W, Marth, and DK don't get flat out ***** by MK.

Snake stops MK from using the B button with nades and can U-tilt kill him easily. G&W can D-tilt and B-air camp MK and has good enough ledgeguarding to somewhat harass MK's recovery, and good enough recovery to get around MK's ledgeguarding, not to mention other ridiculous ways of punishing the Tornado. Marth can play a good camping game against MK and can Up-B OOS against the Tornado. DK has enough range to play spacing games against MK and some strong kill moves that MK doesn't want to get hit by.

Ulevo, King Dedede loses to MK. He can't chaingrab MK if I recall, MK doesn't really have problems getting around DDD's spam, nor does he have much trouble gimping DDD. I just dunno how M2K like 2stocked every MK with DDD though. <<

 

[Affinity]

*sigh*.. i didn't say d throw chain grab.. grab pummel chain grab which is unnavoidable and has nothing to do with D.I. ... it can be done to lucas because once he breaks out of oyur grab you can instantly dash and grab again and repeat that till you reach the edge of the stage

Ah ok.

So it's like Marth's Release Grab on Lucas, except you have to dash?

 

[DEV64]

falco and snake give me the most trouble even though i dont have a ton of exp. or anything but so far those do i have faced 1 DK beat him easy no prob but i dont know if he was good cause i ***** him the whole time!

 

[Ulevo]

*sigh*.. i didn't say d throw chain grab.. grab pummel chain grab which is unnavoidable and has nothing to do with D.I. ... it can be done to lucas because once he breaks out of oyur grab you can instantly dash and grab again and repeat that till you reach the edge of the stage

No, this is false. I am very inclined on what grabs work on who, believe me. This does not work. For the record, I wasn't even arguing that Lucas has the advantage. I'm just stating that he is a character I personally had issues with while fighting. Mostly due to PK Fire and Dair.

Ulevo, King Dedede loses to MK. He can't chaingrab MK if I recall, MK doesn't really have problems getting around DDD's spam, nor does he have much trouble gimping DDD. I just dunno how M2K like 2stocked every MK with DDD though. <<

So since Meta Knight can't be Chain Grabbed, he wins? I wasn't aware Dedede won through spam either.

Dedede out ranges Meta Knight, as well as out powers him. Dedede is majorly heavy and is very difficult to gimp thanks to his amazing recovery, meanwhile Meta Knight is light as a feather. Even though Meta Knight has ways around Dededes Waddle Dees, it's still an advantage Meta Knight does not have. The Bair goes through Meta Knights Tornado and kills, making it a dangerous choice to use the Tornado at all. Also, because of the lack of shield hitstun and the weak attacks Meta Knight dishes out, grabbing Meta Knight from a shield with his huge range if he mispaces even slightly is cake. Oh, and even though he can't Chain Grab, he can DThrow to FTilt for good % each grab.

The only thing Meta Knight has on Dedede is a better recovery, speed, and the Tornado. One can argue that Meta Knight has the advantage, yes, but it isn't very large at all. I'm inclined to think it's anywhere between 6:4 - 4:6, most likely in Dedede's favour. That's just me though, but it's definitely in that range.

 

[TKD]

OMG SO MUCH NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Metaknight has trouble against Snake, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong and Wario.
KEEP IN MIND: Falco's next in line, but he is only as hard as another Metaknight.

The last post talks about Dedede beating MK.

Advantage is for MK. The damage keeps building for both of them because of MK's great approach and D3's great range and priority. Projectile is not a solid advantage for D3. MK can land 3 full ftilts on waddle dees to restore his KO moves and easily KO at high percentages. Plus, upB knocks D3 out of his recovery, which MK can force D3 into using by going after him a bit outside the stage. D3 may keep living, but the point comes when MK can hit his downsmash at the end of D3's recovery, when he goes for the edge or when his stagelanding stops causing damage, or simply knock D3 out of his recovery with his own upB for the KO.

And Lucario doesn't beat MK. Lucario vs MK is (most likely) a 40/60 matchup, in favor of MK. If Azen beats Metaknights, it's obviously because he's Azen. It's happened before, it's like Marth beating Sheik in Melee, which I bet Azen also used to do.

Don't get me wrong, I main D3 and I do play D3 the first match against MK's, and if I win, I keep playing as D3. I even counter with FD+D3 if I'm feeling confident.

 

[Ulevo]

OMG SO MUCH NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Metaknight has trouble against Snake, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong and Wario.
KEEP IN MIND: Falco's next in line, but he is only as hard as another Metaknight.

The last post talks about Dedede beating MK.

Advantage is for MK. The damage keeps building for both of them because of MK's great approach and D3's great range and priority. Projectile is not a solid advantage for D3. MK can land 3 full ftilts on waddle dees to restore his KO moves and easily KO at high percentages. Plus, upB knocks D3 out of his recovery, which MK can force D3 into using by going after him a bit outside the stage. D3 may keep living, but the point comes when MK can hit his downsmash at the end of D3's recovery, when he goes for the edge or when his stagelanding stops causing damage, or simply knock D3 out of his recovery with his own upB for the KO.

And Lucario doesn't beat MK. Lucario vs MK is (most likely) a 40/60 matchup, in favor of MK. If Azen beats Metaknights, it's obviously because he's Azen. It's happened before, it's like Marth beating Sheik in Melee, which I bet Azen also used to do.

Don't get me wrong, I main D3 and I do play D3 the first match against MK's, and if I win, I keep playing as D3. I even counter with FD+D3 if I'm feeling confident.

It's fairly easy to play the best case scenario.

Dedede is fairly heavy. With good DI, it is fair to consider that Meta Knight will struggle to get Dedede to the ledge, especially if he is having problems finding a way through Dededes range. Even if Dedede ends up off the stage, a user can grab the ledge or go in low to prevent a Shuttle Loop from hitting him. UTilt, Dash A, Bair, and DSmash all kill him at very low %. I also don't understand your point on refreshing Meta Knights moveset for a DSmash kill by attacking Waddle Dees, as proper Meta Knight users use DSmash early on or not at all until higher percents to avoid the problem anyway.

This is just my feeling on it, but I really can't see Meta Knight having many advantages aside from speed or the Tornado which can be dealt with anyway.

 

[OverLade]

OMG SO MUCH NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Metaknight has trouble against Snake, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong and Wario.
KEEP IN MIND: Falco's next in line, but he is only as hard as another Metaknight.

The last post talks about Dedede beating MK.

Advantage is for MK. The damage keeps building for both of them because of MK's great approach and D3's great range and priority. Projectile is not a solid advantage for D3. MK can land 3 full ftilts on waddle dees to restore his KO moves and easily KO at high percentages. Plus, upB knocks D3 out of his recovery, which MK can force D3 into using by going after him a bit outside the stage. D3 may keep living, but the point comes when MK can hit his downsmash at the end of D3's recovery, when he goes for the edge or when his stagelanding stops causing damage, or simply knock D3 out of his recovery with his own upB for the KO.

And Lucario doesn't beat MK. Lucario vs MK is (most likely) a 40/60 matchup, in favor of MK. If Azen beats Metaknights, it's obviously because he's Azen. It's happened before, it's like Marth beating Sheik in Melee, which I bet Azen also used to do.

Don't get me wrong, I main D3 and I do play D3 the first match against MK's, and if I win, I keep playing as D3. I even counter with FD+D3 if I'm feeling confident.

MK beats dedede, but a careless MK will lose to D3 every single time. D3 can tech chase MK which will partly make up for the chaingrab, and D3s throws do lots of damage. If D3 plays defensively and the MK is careless enough to rack up 80%, and Utilt will kill him pretty easily. I've seen this matchup go both ways, but at the pro level, MK is gonna **** D3 every time.

edit:
And no, Lucario beating MK has nothing to do with it being AZEN. Instead of making statements like that, why don't you watch Azens videos and see HOW he beats MK.

MK has NO WAY to approach a defensive lucario. Lucarios fair beats Metas because of the nature of the hitbox. SHfair to retreating Nair has a lagless landing, and Ftilt comes out instantly from that if Meta wants to dashgrab or dash attack. On a stage like BF, Meta has an advantage because he's superior in the air, but on FD, I'd put it as a 50-50 matchup IF the players are equal in skill. And MK can't spam nado on a defensive lucario because even weak aura spheres go through it.

 

[ADHD]

Characters with an advantage on Meta Knight are Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Falco, G&W, and Snake. I also have a personal theory that King Dedede has an advantage, but that's my whacky theory.

Characters that do okay against Meta Knight would be Lucario and to a lesser extent Marth.

Characters I have had a problem dealing with in the past as my Meta Knight would be Niko Ks Peach, and Minus's Lucas. They may have severe match up experience, but I certainly didn't feel overly advantageous here.

Every other character is at a disadvantage to Meta Knight, whether if it be a slight one or a severe one. All of a sudden, Meta Knight doesn't seem so God like.

Also, spamming Meta Knights get destroyed versus intelligent players. And being overly aggressive with Meta Knight will get you killed.

Diddy kong? Name the advantage. Metaknight gives falco alot of trouble, snake, and possibly GnW. It's not like these characters are automatically set to win, they all have trouble with good metaknights and struggle to win. Ask a falco player, he'll probably say his worst matchups are olimar, MK, and maybe a good luigi. The falco just gets extremely stressed and goes defensive as possible while the MK is forced to go extremely offensive.

 

[Shadow 111]

Ah ok.

So it's like Marth's Release Grab on Lucas, except you have to dash?

exactly

ulevo- your wrong. it does work... i have done it to lucas in tournament across the stage many times and no one is stupid enough to not try to break out by side stepping or jumping.

honestly, i coppied that off of cort cuz he did it to the best lucas player in ny across the stage a bunch of times.. and it worked everytime.

you can try for yourself .. but it does work

also, you claim you know all about what grabs do what.. when ppl are still learning new things about each grab and grab release... such as some characters being able to grab release wario into the air then get off a dair before they have time to block. and also did oyu know about yoshi being able to chain grab mk by doing grab release into the air and then running grabbing him EVERYTIME? then automatically getting a free up smash off of him too?

as i said.. there are a ton of new things about grab releases being discovered and it does work against lucas. why would i see several ppl doing it in tournament .. then be able to do it MYSELF it it didn't actually work? -__-

also.. i'd like to bring up that yoshi can give mk a hell of a hard time if you are not smart and run right into his grab... cuz he WILL give you hell lol. racks up a bit of damage by doing it across the stage (especially on FD, which you should ban vs yoshi)... but it is still mk's favor regardless... yoshi still has a pretty crappy recovery... but watch for his grabs... try to stay directly above his tongue and you cna get hits in without being grabbed.. you can be grabbed out of oyur torando by yoshi too. but if you torando just above where his tongue will come out .. then you don't have to worry about it