Who does MK have trouble with?

[Kiwikomix]

Few things to add....
Although the tornado just above the tongue thing looks great at first glance, it's pretty difficult to space. Even if you do pull it off, don't forget that Yoshi still has a long-range grab in midair (egg lay). Depending on who you're playing, though, that could not even be an issue, since many Yoshi's avoid that move altogether.
And i don't understand how Yoshi's recovery is "crappy", since he can throw eggs to get close to the stage, then use his DJ armor (or just DJAD) to get past MK's great edgeguarding.
Overall this is good stuff though, I've been looking for something like this.

 

[Shadow 111]

Few things to add....
Although the tornado just above the tongue thing looks great at first glance, it's pretty difficult to space. Even if you do pull it off, don't forget that Yoshi still has a long-range grab in midair (egg lay). Depending on who you're playing, though, that could not even be an issue, since many Yoshi's avoid that move altogether.
And i don't understand how Yoshi's recovery is "crappy", since he can throw eggs to get close to the stage, then use his DJ armor (or just DJAD) to get past MK's great edgeguarding.
Overall this is good stuff though, I've been looking for something like this.

yea, i know what you mean.. i play pr1de though, who is in my crew.. i got a lot of practice against yoshi in by playing him recently.

yea, crappy was not the right word.. it certainly still isn't one of the better ones, but you're right it is difficult to gimp someone really smart.. i don't think i really gimped pr1de at all really.

 

[Baky]

Ive tested many characters in this matchup. The best result I've personally came up with is Lucario vs MK. Which is far from neutral.

Wolf vs MK - Plasma shots ruin tornado and other approaches. Spacing with plasma and keeping Fsmash consistent is a good way to fight MK. Killing MK may be a problem considering the best kill move wolf has, (down smash), is much slower than MK's down smash. Also, if wolf is being edgeguarded, odds are he'll take a lot of damage before returning on stage or even die.

DK vs MK - DK has forward tilt. Thats it. An MK that understands the matchup will put DK to shame. Early kills for DK depends on the skill level of the players. IMO

Falco vs MK - After chaingrabbing and getting the initial 40+%. This matchup goes to **** for Falco but at least you get a head start =D. IMO

EDIT: MK god modes.

 

[Fizzle]

Lucarios fair beats Metas because of the nature of the hitbox.

Lol, no. MK's fair beats Lucario's every time. I'm almost 100% certain. Lucario does not go even with MK in the matchup (probably 60-40 MK), and it's not fair or even ftilt that even makes it that close. It's Lucario's fsmash. If Lucario is spacing well with fsmash, which Azen is particularly renowned for, approaching Lucario is very different for MK. Fsmash has monster range and lingers. It also has very little ending lag, making it extremely difficult to punish when shielded. One of the few ways to beat it is to jump over its hitbox and punish with an aerial, which characters like Luigi and others can do. This is what makes it difficult for MK. MK gets eaten by fsmash's vertical hitbox everytime he goes aerial.

But, when you factor out that, MK dominates Lucario in most other areas. Aura Sphere and fsmash are Luc's best tools in the matchup. It's not a **** matchup by any means, but Azen is simply a very skilled Lucario player.

 

[Ulevo]

Diddy kong? Name the advantage. Metaknight gives falco alot of trouble, snake, and possibly GnW. It's not like these characters are automatically set to win, they all have trouble with good metaknights and struggle to win. Ask a falco player, he'll probably say his worst matchups are olimar, MK, and maybe a good luigi. The falco just gets extremely stressed and goes defensive as possible while the MK is forced to go extremely offensive.

Way to take my words and twist them. Where did I say these characters are automatically set to win? Read the text my friend.

I've already stated that I am unsure of the Diddy match up, and am merely basing it on what I have heard and read, which might I add is starting to accumulate. But none the less, I have little support other than the fact that Bananas do give him a good advantage. And don't say they don't, because they do.

Falco can Nair through Meta Knights Glide attack, his lasers go through the Tornado, Drill, and anything else he has. His Reflector does this too. It makes it hard for him to approach. He has a CG that leads him to an auto 60%, and Meta Knight can't live long to begin with at higher damage. His Smashes are fast (just because they don't outspeed Meta Knights does not make them not viable), and the rest of his Melee is very good. Add this in with the fact that Phantasm makes it more difficult to edge guard Falco then most characters, and you have a hard match for yourself.

The only disadvantage Snake suffers is that he is easy to juggle and his recovery is mediocre at best. If you have a Snake that can recover intelligently, and stay on the stage, Meta Knight will be at the losing end.

I'm not even going to argue G&W.

 

[rathy Aro]

Melee Fox.

10waveshines

 

[Ex Nihilo]

Not much of an "advantage" persay but ZSS is neutral i think. Her downb sexkick and upb can stop metas up b... and she does have more range of him...

 

[darkspatan117]

Ulevo i heard Yoshi can do a falling fair to spike against mkwith grab release is it true?

 

[R4ZE]

Meta knight also has an instantanious Down A that ***** DDD.


btw... if u really think DDD has anything on MK... u need to try hitting the B button with MK, and then u will stfu where u stand.

bottom line is that MK is top tier, and in the hands of a good player, he has no BAD matchups.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Ulevo i heard Yoshi can do a falling fair to spike against mkwith grab release is it true?

Yes.
10trues

 

[Ulevo]

Meta knight also has an instantanious Down A that ***** DDD.


btw... if u really think DDD has anything on MK... u need to try hitting the B button with MK, and then u will stfu where u stand.

bottom line is that MK is top tier, and in the hands of a good player, he has no BAD matchups.

Dedede's Bair easily outbeats the Tornado, and if the Meta Knight is foolish enough to trap Dedede in it, he will fast fall the Bair and hit Meta Knight afterwards. Then it becomes a game of shot for shot, and guess what? Dedede wins. Also, Dedede can Dash Grab Meta Knight out of the Tornado as well, or do what the smart individual would do... Shield and punish the lag. I would also like to note that if Dedede uses Inhale close to the ledge and Meta Knight Tornados towards him, he will blow past Dedede and kill himself.

Stop being an ignorant scrub and actually learn how to play this game before shooting your mouth off. There are ways to beat Meta Knight. Learn them.

Yes.
10trues

No, it's not true. It sets up for a Fair Spike, but it's not guaranteed, and can be air dodged or avoided through attacks and other methods.

 

[Mmac]

No, it's not true. It sets up for a Fair Spike, but it's not guaranteed, and can be air dodged or avoided through attacks and other methods.

You didn't read that other post from that other topic, did you?(The MetaKnight Banned one). It's inescapeable, but it requires positioning in order to do so.

Why can't we just stick with one thread >_>

 

[Ulevo]

You didn't read that other post from that other topic, did you?(The MetaKnight Banned one). It's inescapeable, but it requires positioning in order to do so.

Why can't we just stick with one thread >_>

Please provide me with a video that shows it is inescapable. In the video locating in the Yoshi forum, it isn't. It displays Meta Knight using attacks right before being hit, meaning there is time to do an appropriate action to escape, or air dodge. My friend also tried this on me, and it didn't work. I Shuttle Looped each attempt. Meta Knight is able to react before he hits the ground on a stage, so how would this not be the case if he's going past the level of the stage?

 

[Mmac]

Here: http://files.filefront.com/YshMKFairwmv/;11567549;/fileinfo.html

I had him do both Tornado and the Shuttleloop

Just like I said, he can spike him before he can start up the tornado, and Shuttleloop equalizes, except for that one time where I beat it.

 

[Ulevo]

Here: http://files.filefront.com/YshMKFairwmv/;11567549;/fileinfo.html

I had him do both Tornado and the Shuttleloop

Just like I said, he can spike him before he can start up the tornado, and Shuttleloop equalizes, except for that one time where I beat it.

And did you bother to try and Air Dodge? I still can't see this working at all. You were caught in the Tornado the majority of the time.

 

[darkspatan117]

Ulevo i have a question is DK able to use a grab release setup on MK?

 

[Ulevo]

Ulevo i have a question is DK able to use a grab release setup on MK?

I don't remember off hand, but he should be able to force a Jump Break. Whether or not he can follow that up, I haven't a clue.

 

[Mmac]

And did you bother to try and Air Dodge? I still can't see this working at all. You were caught in the Tornado the majority of the time.

The reasons why some of the attempts failed was because of my timing being off. If you don't move as soon as he release, and/or if you start the Fair too slow, then he won't hit him in time. I didn't want to edit out the bad attempts because:

1) I didn't want to edit it too much to be too suspicious

2) I'm too freaken tired! >_<

And airdodge doesn't work (I already tested everything), and I really, REALLY don't want to do another video just to prove it. Plus, I manage to hit MetaKnight on the first frame of his Shuttle Loop, what makes you think he'll get away with a Airdodge which takes abut 3 frames to activate?

Plus if he does get away with an Airdodge, Then he can just follow that up with a Rising Nair during the ending frames

 

[darkspatan117]

Marth thought can abuse Mk jump break

 

[Rh1thmz]

Projectiles, obviously, give MK trouble, but a skilled MK will just take a matter of seconds to go through the projectile wall and destroy the character up close. Lucario can fight decently at range and up close, which makes Lucario a potential problem. Anyone with aerials that outrange MK's is a big problem. MK has no matchups that totally ruin him, though.

 

[Shadow 111]

No, it's not true. It sets up for a Fair Spike, but it's not guaranteed, and can be air dodged or avoided through attacks and other methods.

lol at the fact that you think you know more than all of the top yoshi mains in the world because you have gotten out of it when your friend has tried it. mmac explained that it's hard to do and that you need to space yourself exactly right and itme it right... i seriously doubt that your friend has the same skill with yoshi as these yoshi players that just declared that it could be done in their thread.

 

[Ulevo]

lol at the fact that you think you know more than all of the top yoshi mains in the world because you have gotten out of it when your friend has tried it. mmac explained that it's hard to do and that you need to space yourself exactly right and itme it right... i seriously doubt that your friend has the same skill with yoshi as these yoshi players that just declared that it could be done in their thread.

You know, despite how many intelligent individuals are drawn in to the Smash community, they're still the minority. You're certainly not the minority.

Meta Knight is able to react from his Jump Break prior to hitting the ground on the floor of a stage. Thus it would be safe to assume that if he goes below the floor of a stage (or off the stage), he could react then as well. Adding in with the fact that his video was very inconsistent, and you have reasonable doubt.

I didn't claim I know more than the "top Yoshi mains in the world". I claimed this didn't work you idiot. And don't go making assumptions with your pompous attitude, you have no idea how good or bad me or any of my crew members are.

 

[Mew2King]

you cant escape yoshis CG if he does it right

 

[Mew2King]

Lucario vs MK is even, DDD vs MK is even (MK wins in teams because of Tornado)

 

[Mmac]

Meta Knight is able to react from his Jump Break prior to hitting the ground on the floor of a stage. Thus it would be safe to assume that if he goes below the floor of a stage (or off the stage), he could react then as well. Adding in with the fact that his video was very inconsistent, and you have reasonable doubt.

The MetaKnight I had did react at the same spot as soon as he recovers. You can see it in the video (It's kinda hard to screw up tapping the B Button continuously). If Yoshi is in the correct position and reacts perfectly, then MetaKnight can't escape. By the time he recovers from the release, he only has about 1-3 Frames to do an action, which isn't enough time to do anything.

I'm not trying to pull a Niko_K here. This is very legitimate, and it does indeed work

 

[Ulevo]

The MetaKnight I had did react at the same spot as soon as he recovers. You can see it in the video (It's kinda hard to screw up tapping the B Button continuously). If Yoshi is in the correct position and reacts perfectly, then MetaKnight can't escape. By the time he recovers from the release, he only has about 1-3 Frames to do an action, which isn't enough time to do anything.

I'm not trying to pull a Niko_K here. This is very legitimate, and it does indeed work

I know about testing something significant and legitimate, and having others doubt your findings. I'm not trying to be insulting. I just know by doing the test and findings for Marths Grab Release set ups that this doesn't necessarily add up. But I'm all for a Yoshi tech.

 

[Shadow 111]

Lucario vs MK is even, DDD vs MK is even (MK wins in teams because of Tornado)

what do you think about olimar? today at the tournament you were saying you thought olimar wasn't too bad against him. soo.. 60/40 mk?

 

[Skyflyer]

Projectiles, obviously, give MK trouble, but a skilled MK will just take a matter of seconds to go through the projectile wall and destroy the character up close. Lucario can fight decently at range and up close, which makes Lucario a potential problem. Anyone with aerials that outrange MK's is a big problem. MK has no matchups that totally ruin him, though.

He can also approach with glide and have no problem.

 

[TKD]

Yayy the complete list of MK troubles:
Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, G&W, Snake, Kirby, Falco

They're EVEN matchups though.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

MK has no bad match-ups.

Contrary to popular beleif, Metaknight DOES have bad matchups. They're Gigabowser, Supersonic, Wario Man and... you get the idea...

 

[Bowser King]

Meta seems to have an even match-up with Yoshi, Lucario and DDD.

 

[Slurpee]

Yay Diddy! Well I find MK to be a pain to fight, but I just use mindgames. The thing is, Meta Knight may have a low amount of flaws, but the player or the mind of the player can screw up. Get them confused, and you can win. That's why people have trouble with Diddy.

 

[ADHD]

Say what you want about diddy

You guys don't know how to deal with him, once you know how it's 60-40 MK's favor in my opinion--that **** is hard when MK knows the matchup

A good olimar is 50/50... it can be argued

 

[brinboy789]

anyone with a ledge up b is screwed with mk imo . i think the chars with good matchups with MK are:
~ DK
~ Diddy
~ G&W
~ Marth
~ lucario

even matchups:
~ wario
~ kirby
~ snake
~ falco
prolly more

 

[Calixto]

Another Metaknight.

 

[Piers-Riot]

Snake/GnW give me the most trouble, but another good MK can pose a problem too.

 

[napZzz]

Snake, donkey kong, and diddy kong.

 

[CO18]

ddd vs mk is not even.

it would be if it werent for nado straight up.

 

[Crizthakidd]

watch seirbrik vs some good metas he knowsss ddds grab game is too beast

 

[Snowstalker]

Seems to be Snake, Yoshi, and Diddy.

All are in MK's favor, but it's a miniscule advantage.