Where would Ness and Lucas rank on Tier Lists if it wasn't for their infinites?

[Yuna]

Stuff.

Although this is hearsay, the only thing Simna has said on the subject to agree with these Ness mainers is "PKT is Ness' best move". As far as we know, he's neither said that's it's fast/"not slow", that's easy to hit with, that it's not situational, that's it's a reliable KO move or any of the other things the Ness mainers in this thread are claiming.

Also, remember, one of said Ness mainers thought Ness stopped dead in his tracks during PKT2 if he hits someone with it. Being a Ness mainer =/= Knowing a lot about him.

 

[Darkwashu]

All Ness mains are biased because they main Ness. I couldn't hope to tell you the Pikachu v. Lucario matchup BECAUSE I main both characters. Also, the Lucario boards have a bad taste in their mouths after Sinma banned a dissenter during the Ness matchup discussion.

EDIT: And yes, it was most likely an example of mod abuse. Although the Lucario boards would get ticked by a Mod doing their job - We love our spam threads. Incidently, I would like to thank the Lucario board moderator for NOT shutting down our spammy threads. The lack of supervision really helps our boards be entertaining.

I main Ness and im not biased....im biased about Lucas <.<

 

[rathy Aro]

Although this is hearsay, the only thing Simna has said on the subject to agree with these Ness mainers is "PKT is Ness' best move". As far as we know, he's neither said that's it's fast/"not slow", that's easy to hit with, that it's not situational, that's it's a reliable KO move or any of the other things the Ness mainers in this thread are claiming.

Also, remember, one of said Ness mainers thought Ness stopped dead in his tracks during PKT2 if he hits someone with it. Being a Ness mainer =/= Knowing a lot about him.

My statement was a group of Ness mainers probably know more than a group of non-Ness mainers about Ness. And I've seen Simna's arguments on the subject. I don't recall him saying it was slow, he said that he got it off like once every set (or something like that), and other stuff, but I can't remember because it was about a week ago. I'll quote his arguments into the thread when they come up though.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Sinma's thoughts on the subject begin here, and end with a total collapse of the Ness v. Lucario matchup.

 

[clowsui]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUWonGdHUb0
PKTail vs. Gimpy
Gimpy wins

 

[Nestec]

Every other post probably. Like the many times you claim PKT2 and PKT1 are fast.

You claim it's slow. So are your arguments lies?

It's faster than 3-frame aerials that'll whack it out of existence?

Your aerials won't connect to the head; the tail will be steered into you as you fall.

When I say things, I elaborate. I don't just say "It's like this".

Earlier, you merely stated "No, it can't." to one of my statements. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of elaborating.

 

[Yuna]

My statement was a group of Ness mainers probably know more than a group of non-Ness mainers about Ness. And I've seen Simna's arguments on the subject. I don't recall him saying it was slow, he said that he got it off like once every set (or something like that), and other stuff, but I can't remember because it was about a week ago. I'll quote his arguments into the thread when they come up though.

So he's basically saying it's situational and kinda hard to nail (it's Simna... and according to himself, he only gets it off once every set)... exactly what I've been saying all along.

You claim it's slow. So are your arguments lies?

Why would they be? PKT2 is slow as hell. Because you neeed to PKT1 first.

Your aerials won't connect to the head; the tail will be steered into you as you fall.

But if Ness is tailwhipping you like that, it's impossible for him to PKT2. So it doesn't matter if you just take the hit like a man and then recover.

Earlier, you merely stated "No, it can't." to one of my statements. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of elaborating.

I most often elaborate. You almost never elaborate.

 

[rathy Aro]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bqxs_z0dMT0
Gimpy gets owned by PKT2. # :50+

Just to make sure what exactly is the argument. Its been a while so I honestly am not sure anymore.

 

[Nestec]

Why would they be? PKT2 is slow as hell. Because you neeed to PKT1 first.

First of all, you claimed that I was lying by saying PKT was fast. So you say it's slow? Then you may just as well be lying too.
Secondly...

But if Ness is tailwhipping you like that, it's impossible for him to PKT2. So it doesn't matter if you just take the hit like a man and then recover.

It's not impossible; I'm talking about the technique you referred to as "Praying". The head is pulled around to Ness' feet, while the tail is steadily being dragged along the enemy's body, stunning him. Remember, this is assuming both chars are on the stage, but in the air. Take the hit like a man? You'll be KOed...

I most often elaborate. You almost never elaborate.

If I did not elaborate, I would not still be here having this wonderful discussion with you. ^__^

( Lmao, at the Gimpy vs Cazcom fight. 2 kills in one set due to PKT2... )

 

[Yuna]

First of all, you claimed that I was lying by saying PKT was fast. So you say it's slow? Then you may just as well be lying too.
Secondly...

This paragraph contained zero logic.

It's not impossible; I'm talking about the technique you referred to as "Praying". The head is pulled around to Ness' feet, while the tail is steadily being dragged along the enemy's body, stunning him. Remember, this is assuming both chars are on the stage, but in the air. Take the hit like a man? You'll be KOed...

... ... ...

Yes, obviously it's possible to spin the tail around so you can't possible just take the head or hit it. You also can't airdodge it in any direction. All the while, Ness will still have enough time to somehow loop it back to himself to PKT2 you!

If I did not elaborate, I would not still be here having this wonderful discussion with you. ^__^

This sentence also makes no sense. You didn't elaborate.

 

[Nestec]

This paragraph contained zero logic.

If you can accuse me of lying for stating that it is fast, I can accuse you of lying for stating that it is not fast.

... ... ...

Yes, obviously it's possible to spin the tail around so you can't possible just take the head or hit it. You also can't airdodge it in any direction. All the while, Ness will still have enough time to somehow loop it back to himself to PKT2 you!

Internet sarcasm fails. ;P
Yes, Ness will have enough time because PKT moves more quickly than a character's aerial movement.

This sentence also makes no sense. You didn't elaborate.

I don't believe elaboration is necessary 100% of the time.

 

[Uffe]

No matter how good the Ness is, PKT2 will never be fast.

Oh my gosh. Okay, so it's not Fox Illusion fast, but it's pretty quick.

This has absolutely nothing with anything I've said. Some people are claiming that PKT2 is a reliable KO move that you can hit "quite often" (or whatever they said). I'm challenging that notion.

Whether Ness has other KO options is irrelevant as it's not part of the discussion at hand.

Of course it is. You brought up KO's and so I'm talking about it.

Pray tell, how do you magically make it fast?

Read above.

It's slow...

Because you say so.

Wow, great. One player got hit by PKT2 once. Wheee.

Actually I was pointing out that if it's slow, how come it hits? And I've been hitting a **** load of people this week with that move just to kill them.

But it's situational... and slow...

Just about any attack is situational. If you want to talk situational, talk about Link.

Booting up the game and playing Ness for 5 minutes will tell you, among other things, that PKT2 is slow.

I've been playing Ness for quite awhile now. I don't need five minutes to determine how quick PKT2 is. Anyway because you're too foolproof or just full of it, I'll let you believe what you want. Nothing gets past solid Yuna. If you want you can get the last words in. It's not going to bother me.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

You know? Usually i dislike Yuna's forcefulness and overall smart*** attitude, but this showing was just what was needed (and is still going on at this moment of course).

Anyway, to the question in the original post: they'd be higher, but not SUPER ****ing HIGH UP BECAUSE PKT2 KILLS AT 40% AND NEVER MISSES AND A METEOR SMASH AT 0% MEANS NESS IS UNBEATABLE >_>. Probably low to mid-upper mid tier.

EDIT:

Actually I was pointing out that if it's slow, how come it hits? And I've been hitting a **** load of people this week with that move just to kill them.

Who are these people? Should anybody care about these people? And how often per match?
--you can hit with falcon punch if it's setup right or if your opponent makes a mistake, doesn't mean it's the best move ever...

 

[thesage]

Pkt is NOT Ness' best move. >_>; Stop arguing about it.

Plz. Almost nobody here knows what they are talking about. Just stop.

 

[cutter]

Sinma's thoughts on the subject begin here, and end with a total collapse of the Ness v. Lucario matchup.

Good god that was terrible. Simna clearly abuses his mod powers and bans the guy because he disagreed with Simna in thinking PKT2 isn't a good attack.

 

[Veggi]

Good god that was terrible. Simna clearly abuses his mod powers and bans the guy because he disagreed with Simna in thinking PKT2 isn't a good attack.

I know, I was thinking that. Why doesn't he ban 3/4 of the people on Smashboards? Seriously what a terrible excuse for a mod.

 

[Yuna]

Oh my gosh. Okay, so it's not Fox Illusion fast, but it's pretty quick.

"It's pretty quick". So it's becoming slower now? First it was "fast", now it's "pretty quick".

PKT2 is slow as hell (on activation). Comparatively, it's around as "pretty quick" as, what, Falcon Punch?

And since when was Fox Illusion ever the pinnacle of speed?

Of course it is. You brought up KO's and so I'm talking about it.

Quote me where I said anything that required you to talk about Ness' KO options.

Read above.

In other words, you don't... it's still Falcon Punch-speed.

Because you say so.

No, because frame data doesn't lie. Even if you direct PKT1 to hit Ness into PKT2 as soon as possible, it is still slow. No one will ever not see it coming since PKT2 requires PKT2.

No one will ever be "ZOMG! PKT2 out of nowhere!":ed.

Actually I was pointing out that if it's slow, how come it hits?

Praying, Tailwhipping, mindgames, all of which makes it situational. Hey, I hit with Ike's Fsmash! I must be fast!

And I've been hitting a **** load of people this week with that move just to kill them.

Who are you, who are these people you against and why should we even care. Simna, one of the if not the best Nesses in the world says that he hits with it approximately once each set (against good people). Wow, I guess you're the best Ness in the world!

Or you just play lots of ****ty players. I hit lots of people with Ike's Fsmash. Go Ike! High Tier!

Just about any attack is situational. If you want to talk situational, talk about Link.

No, they're not. Since when is Toon Link ever situational. Do you even know what the word "situational" means?

I've been playing Ness for quite awhile now.

Yet you still think PKT2 is fast.

I don't need five minutes to determine how quick PKT2 is.

Then you must suffer sudden amnesia every time you've finished playing to think it's fast.

Anyway because you're too foolproof or just full of it, I'll let you believe what you want. Nothing gets past solid Yuna. If you want you can get the last words in. It's not going to bother me.

Post a video where you PKT2 "pretty quick"-ly. Or just a replay and have someone convert it into a video.

 

[ColinJF]

Simna, one of the if not the best Nesses in the world says that he hits with it approximately once each set (against good people)

Actually he said that Ness players should be able to land it 1.6 times per 2 games. As in, he was saying what the average player should be able to do, not himself.

Simna is obviously an excellent player, but he isn't the only one who can land this move. It isn't actually that hard to land.

 

[Brinzy]

Ness mainers, Yuna already said this, but I'll reiterate why he keeps saying the move is slow.

Take anyone with a move that comes out in like, frame 4... or hell, frame 10. These moves will never be considered slow (as far as getting the actual hitboxes out) because the human brain virutally never can react in such a way that:

- in frame 1, you see the starting animation
- from frame 1 - whatever the frame the move comes out, your brain signals you to hit a specific button, and your finger has to make that movement before said move comes out.

The human brain, top, cannot react in 10 frames like that. Ever fought a level 9 CPU and how they have godly (mechanical) reaction times to your attacks? The human brain simply cannot react in this manner. The only time you will be able to defend yourself successfully from an attack that comes out very fast is if you can predict it ahead of time. If I jump in front of someone and I expect their move that attacks on frame 5, I can set my dodging up ahead of time to avoid it. That is predicting, and virtually all moves that come out under a specific frame amount can only be evaded in this manner (assuming you would be hit otherwise).

Ness's PKT2, without any sort of tricks or glitches of any kind, at the fastest possible curve, comes out on frame 18. The human brain can detect and react to this move because the human brain is fast enough to get a message to you that says, "Hey, something is going to happen, and you need to do something about it." Even if you're tricked into falling for the move somehow, you can always see PKT come out and you can *conjure* PKT happening before it actually happens. Can you still be hit by it? Of course you can. However, the move can be reacted to because no matter what, the fastest possible PKT2 is still slow enough for the human brain to react to.

The move isn't a fully charged Eruption and it isn't something you'd only hit a skilled player with if they had their shield broken or whatever the case is, but no matter what, PKT2 can be reacted to before it actually happens. This is what makes the move *slow.* It's not bad, it's not the best/worst kill move for Ness, it's not anything like that, as far as I'm concerned (as I'm not talking about any of those aspects). The move can always be reacted to so long as the opponent's character CAN react and stay safe.

 

[MarKO X]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bqxs_z0dMT0
Gimpy gets owned by PKT2. # :50+

Just to make sure what exactly is the argument. Its been a while so I honestly am not sure anymore.

lol at that vid and the fight before it.
No Zelda, though, ftl. Unless Zelda's a bad matchup against Ness, is she? Who cares... PKT was made to look pretty bad *** in those fights.

So maybe it is slow. Maybe it isn't his best move. But you know what makes PKT1 and PKT2 so good? The fact that it's underestimated. I'm willing to be that anyone who believes that PKT1 and PKT2 suck are people who haven't gotten hit with it in manners such that it costs them a match (or at least a semi-critical stock), me being one of them, but that's the fourth vid I've seen of PKT ownage since I've been reading this topic. It seems to be much more versatile than I, or any people, have been giving it credit for.

My conclusion: it's a good move, you better watch the hell out for it.

 

[Ballistaboy]

The only time I get hit with Ness's PKT2 is if I am too slow in hitting the thunder and can either get hit by ness or fall to my doom so I try and get lucky and DI good.

 

[DKKountry]

lol at that vid and the fight before it.
No Zelda, though, ftl. Unless Zelda's a bad matchup against Ness, is she? Who cares... PKT was made to look pretty bad *** in those fights.

So maybe it is slow. Maybe it isn't his best move. But you know what makes PKT1 and PKT2 so good? The fact that it's underestimated. I'm willing to be that anyone who believes that PKT1 and PKT2 suck are people who haven't gotten hit with it in manners such that it costs them a match (or at least a semi-critical stock), me being one of them, but that's the fourth vid I've seen of PKT ownage since I've been reading this topic. It seems to be much more versatile than I, or any people, have been giving it credit for.

My conclusion: it's a good move, you better watch the hell out for it.

I've never been the type to say that any move is so horrible that it should never be used and now in Brawl, I think there are even fewer moves that fall into the "worthless and sucktastic" category than ever. I understand that some moves would be worthless in an absolute metagame played by computers etc. but we're human, we're not perfect, and I think every move has a place in a Smash fight at SOME point.

Regarding PKT2, I agree, it has a place in battle. Not spammable lol, but it has a place.

 

[Brinzy]

Nobody is calling PKT2 bad.


And anyone who says it's bad is obviously a nobody. The point? Stop trying to disprove that it's not bad, BECAUSE NOBODY IS SAYING IT'S BAD.

 

[Yuna]

Regarding PKT2, I agree, it has a place in battle. Not spammable lol, but it has a place.

No one (credible) has argued otherwise.

Actually he said that Ness players should be able to land it 1.6 times per 2 games. As in, he was saying what the average player should be able to do, not himself.

Then what he says means absolutely nothing as far as this thread is concerned. Nobody cares what average player can do to other average players.

When discussing potential, we assume the people in question are of a very high level (not average). In other words, Simna's statement is irrelevant to this thread.

 

[ColinJF]

No one (credible) has argued otherwise.

Didn't you say earlier in the topic that one could only land this regularly "against idiots" (this is a direct quote)? In fact it was because of a claim similar to that (also by you) that I originally replied to the topic.

Also to address something you said earlier, being able to land this once per match already makes the move viable in the sense that it kills really early (40-50% depending on weight). You don't need to be taking off every stock with pk thunder 2 for it to be really good or to be considered as hitting "regularly".

When I think of irregularly used kill moves, I think more of pk flash... it's devastating when you land it, but it's very situational and rarely happens. pk thunder 2 is something you can count on (except against a select few characters).

Then what he says means absolutely nothing as far as this thread is concerned. Nobody cares what average player can do to other average players.

When discussing potential, we assume the people in question are of a very high level (not average). In other words, Simna's statement is irrelevant to this thread.

If the average player can land it that often then couldn't a better one land it more often...? I'm a bit confused what you are getting at there... the statement has nothing to do with the skill of the opponent (which is assumed to be good) but with the skill of the Ness player. (I am guessing you just didn't read his full post, which is understandable... I'm sure you're busy.)

 

[Yuna]

Didn't you say earlier in the topic that one could only land this regularly "against idiots" (this is a direct quote)? In fact it was because of a claim similar to that (also by you) that I originally replied to the topic.

Some people are unable to comprehend plain English.

Me: "You have to be idiot to constantly get hit by PKT2."

Constantly =/= Regularly

And even if I had used the word "regularly", 1.6 times in two matches is hardly regularly (let's assume Simna is right and that it's relevant what the average Ness can do). That's less than once a match! That is not regularly. That is not reliably!

"It doesn't hit very often" =/= "It has no place in the metagame"

Also to address something you said earlier, being able to land this once per match already makes the move viable in the sense that it kills really early (40-50% depending on weight).

It hits once per match =/= It's reliable (the word used)

You don't need to be taking off every stock with pk thunder 2 for it to be really good or to be considered as hitting "regularly".

Yes you do. "Regularly" is not once per match.

When I think of irregularly used kill moves, I think more of pk flash... it's devastating when you land it, but it's very situational and rarely happens. pk thunder 2 is something you can count on (except against a select few characters).

No you can't. It's situational.

If the average player can land it that often then couldn't a better one land it more often...?

If an average player can do X to another average player, can a good player do it better against a good player? Not necessarily, because the opponent will also be good, they will know about the strategy/technique and they will most probably know of ways to combat it(them!

BTW, I've said all of this already. Plain English is a ***** to comprehend, I know.

I'm a bit confused what you are getting at there... the statement has nothing to do with the skill of the opponent (which is assumed to be good) but with the skill of the Ness player. (I am guessing you just didn't read his full post, which is understandable... I'm sure you're busy.)

So an average player is supposed to be able to hit with PKT2 1.6 times in two matches no matter the skill level of the opponent? It's inferred that Simna meant an average Ness player vs. an average oponent.

 

[ColinJF]

Some people are unable to comprehend plain English.

Me: "You have to be idiot to constantly get hit by PKT2."

Constantly =/= Regularly

And even if I had used the word "regularly", 1.6 times in two matches is hardly regularly (let's assume Simna is right and that it's relevant what the average Ness can do). That's less than once a match! That is not regularly. That is not reliably!

"It doesn't hit very often" =/= "It has no place in the metagame"

To be fair, I didn't provide a link (I didn't feel like finding it), but the quote I was referring to was this one:

This is NOT a novelty and it works on a regular basis.

Against idiots.

As you can see, my assessment of what you said was completely correct.

Now I know this was just a good faith mistake, but perhaps I should suggest you can't read basic English anyway. I'm a bit baffled why you insist on being so hostile.

(The statement you quoted above was the "similar" one I was referring to.)

 

[hotgarbage]

I love how Yuna can't respond to anything without trolling.

 

[Yuna]

To be fair, I didn't provide a link (I didn't feel like finding it), but the quote I was referring to was this one:

As you can see, my assessment of what you said was completely correct.

Now I know this was just a good faith mistake, but perhaps I should suggest you can't read basic English anyway. I'm a bit baffled why you insist on being so hostile.

(The statement you quoted above was the "similar" one I was referring to.)

That was my memory not remembering every single thing I've ever said. Your definition of "regularly" is highly faulty, as I just said (something you neglected to address... this is a classic technique when faced with something you cannot refute, attack a minor and highly irrelevant point instead of the important point(s)).

"0.8 times per match" =/= "Regularly"

I love how Yuna can't respond to anything without trolling.

I love it how I've never even once received a single infraction for trolling, harsh language or anything like that.

 

[ColinJF]

I disagree with your idea of what regularly means. What else is there to say on those points? I wouldn't have replied at all if you hadn't also insulted my reading comprehension.

 

[Yuna]

I only insulted it because you've very often failed to comprehend my posts when they're written in plain English. In this case, you didn't, however.

 

[rathy Aro]

Some people are unable to comprehend plain English.

Me: "You have to be idiot to constantly get hit by PKT2."

Constantly =/= Regularly

And even if I had used the word "regularly", 1.6 times in two matches is hardly regularly (let's assume Simna is right and that it's relevant what the average Ness can do). That's less than once a match! That is not regularly. That is not reliably!

"It doesn't hit very often" =/= "It has no place in the metagame"


It hits once per match =/= It's reliable (the word used)


Yes you do. "Regularly" is not once per match.


No you can't. It's situational.


If an average player can do X to another average player, can a good player do it better against a good player? Not necessarily, because the opponent will also be good, they will know about the strategy/technique and they will most probably know of ways to combat it(them!

BTW, I've said all of this already. Plain English is a ***** to comprehend, I know.


So an average player is supposed to be able to hit with PKT2 1.6 times in two matches no matter the skill level of the opponent? It's inferred that Simna meant an average Ness player vs. an average oponent.

1.6 times every 2 matches sounds like its used regularly to me. So now we're debating now we're debating what "regular" use and "often". This argument is getting more and more pointless especially when I have serious doubts that everyone here knows what the two sides of the debate are. So I ask.... WHAT ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT?

 

[betterthanbonds9]

i hate triple quoting so ill just bold the key words regular basis

regular=/= 1 time a match
reliable=/=1 time a match
consistently=/=1 time a match
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/reliable=/=1 time a match

PKT2 is something that you can't just be oblivious to, but arguing that it's both fast and reliable >_>

seriously, learn english and read adjectives/adverbs/conjunctions they make a sentence mean stuff they otherwise wouldn't...

 

[Yuna]

1.6 times every 2 matches sounds like its used regularly to me. So now we're debating now we're debating what "regular" use and "often". This argument is getting more and more pointless especially when I have serious doubts that everyone here knows what the two sides of the debate are. So I ask.... WHAT ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT?

According to what thesaurus?

Less than once a match is hardly often. Once per match hardly makes it a force to fear and that makes Ness jump through the tiers.

 

[-Jumpman-]

According to what thesaurus?

Less than once a match is hardly often. Once per match hardly makes it a force to fear and that makes Ness jump through the tiers.

"Often" is subjective, so there's no point in discussing that. If it hits once and kills once, it is a force to fear. One kill every match by one move is really often.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

"Often" is subjective, so there's no point in discussing that. If it hits once and kills once, it is a force to fear. One kill every match by one move is really often.

one hit=/=1kill necesarrily and here's the merriam webster definition of often "many times" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/often it'll link you to frequently, which links you to frequent and here's that definition:
1: to associate with, be in, or resort to often or habitually <a bar frequented by sports fans>2archaic : to read systematically or habitually

So i propose 2 things, 1 is that we use the word reliable or at least acknowledge that they all mean the same and stop changing it. And 2: we agree that <1 times a match=/= "many times" or "habitually"

 

[-Jumpman-]

one hit=/=1kill necesarrily and here's the merriam webster definition of often "many times" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/often it'll link you to frequently, which links you to frequent and here's that definition:
1: to associate with, be in, or resort to often or habitually <a bar frequented by sports fans>2archaic : to read systematically or habitually

So i propose 2 things, 1 is that we use the word reliable or at least acknowledge that they all mean the same and stop changing it. And 2: we agree that <1 times a match=/= "many times" or "habitually"

Why quote me? I never said anything about your dictionary. A dictionary isn't something we have to base our posts on, stop that crap.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

According to what thesaurus?

Less than once a match is hardly often. Once per match hardly makes it a force to fear and that makes Ness jump through the tiers.

-followed by-

"Often" is subjective, so there's no point in discussing that. If it hits once and kills once, it is a force to fear. One kill every match by one move is really often.

then...

Why quote me? I never said anything about your dictionary. A dictionary isn't something we have to base our posts on, stop that crap.

Because you don't like the thesaurus, i gave you the dictionary. Plus, i hate the word subjective because it's usually used in a way that implies that nobody in the world has similar tastes and you are impervious to any argument because we either a. Dont "get" you or b. must hate you. But conviently enough, our (those with differing opinions to yours) opinions are not supposed to follow in that way. We must defend ours while you negate a statement because it differs from your own.

I'm pretty sure that we speak english so a dictionary of the english language makes sense imo

Spoiler

i hope that the last sentence you gave was sarcasm

 

[-Jumpman-]

-followed by-


then...


Because you don't like the thesaurus, i gave you the dictionary. Plus, i hate the word subjective because it's usually used in a way that implies that nobody in the world has similar tastes and you are impervious to any argument because we either a. Dont "get" you or b. must hate you. But conviently enough, our (those with differing opinions to yours) opinions are not supposed to follow in that way. We must defend ours while you negate a statement because it differs from your own.

I'm pretty sure that we speak english so a dictionary of the english language makes sense imo

Spoiler

i hope that the last sentence you gave was sarcasm

I was actually talking to Yuna, because he was like "oh no! that's not often!" etc. And yes, it was partially sarcasm.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Back to the discussion, I myself am a little confused about what it is that is being argued.

However, reliable moves should hit MORE than once per match. Situational kill moves like PKT2, Ike's F-smash, and Bowsercide, are still very good techniques WHEN THEY WORK, but are not all that reliable, nor do the players of these characters use them regularly, but rather when the situation calls for the move. Thats what makes them SITUATIONAL.