What are your opinions on Project M?

[DerfMidWest]

I was playing P:M agains today, and the game is fun, but really... its so defensive.
this prevents it from being as fast as melee is.
characters that have the ability to play aggressive is a good thing. it makes it not brawl.
but in P:M, not even the species can play aggro due to the amount of strong approach wrecking move sets.

also wolf sucks and is really bland. please make him fun.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Wolf is pretty amazing, and this game isnt defensive when you play !

 

[DerfMidWest]

wolf sucks.
he has no sex kick.
this is bad for a spacey.
his Nair is also trash.
his recovery is kinda good in a gimmicky way, and certainly less gimpable, but he's not.... good.

Ike is one of the most overrated characters in P:M. People seem to think he's this kinda tank. which is kinda true because he doesn't die. but his moves are super easy to bait. he's like Ganon, you just bait an aerial and smack him.

 

[The Good Doctor]

We have a good local Wolf.
Also, check out the lag on Ike's tilts, oh wait....there is none and they hit like a boss.
Ike will win FC, just wait.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Ike's tilts are predictable and don't cover 45º angles easily.

 

[The Good Doctor]

lol, alright then.

 

[Jockmaster]

These Ike detractors have yet to show any results of him not being practically OP. They all say "he too slow n stuff". He isnt like Ganon. He has twice the range and his hitboxes are disjointed as ****. Not to mention QD approaches. Play an Ike who knows how to use his bair to approach and get back to us on your success rate.

He is easily edgeguarded though. I actually got a trick down that Strong Bad showed one time on smashmods forums.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I didn't say Ike wasn't good, just that he was flawed, which isn't a bad thing, in this case.

QD stuff is all gimmicks, once people figure them out they aren't unpunishable.

Ike has range, but that doesn't make his moves unpunishable. And, like marth, all his moves begin above him, so you can just run under and hit him with quick upwards moves (i.e. fox's utilt)

Ike's tilts are beast, but there are still gaps.

Ike's recover is decent, but still easily gimped.

Etc,etc,etc.

 

[Jockmaster]

I actually think his recovery is pretty bad

Srsly just do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FinlKtDHhRE&feature=player_detailpage#t=14s

its easymode

 

[Strong Badam]

^was before we fixed/lengthened ledge occupancy, this should be easy as **** now. & my marth is ****
seriously it's like edgeguarding Sheik LOL and people complained about that for years. now everyone ***** her recovery.

Ike is good. Ike is not broken. He does well in tournament because he's good and popular; good players are drawn to him because he's fun to use, similarly to Falcon. Game's been out for 3 months. Try to beat the character before you say he's broken. If you're using a Melee character, your opponent has probably fought that char for like 10 yrs and you've been fighting PM Ike for less than 3 months. Give it some time. I'm not saying a tweak here and there wouldn't be beneficial, but I guarantee you that Ike is not broken in relation to the rest of the cast.

 

[Deleted member]

Ike is garbage.

The game being more defensive is a good thing. For those of us that have been playing for 10+ years, we're kinda tired of watching falco in every finals set. Falco and Fox aren't particularly stupid in this game, it's a nice change of pace.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

the fact that cf can grab the edge with forward b is a very good way to buff him. he still feels identical, but his recovery is buffed so much by this, and thats the area where he needed to get buffed the most.

Oh, and make the gentleman work as it does in PAL. There is no good reason whatsoever to have it be ******** as in NTSC.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Oh, and make the gentleman work as it does in PAL. There is no good reason whatsoever to have it be ******** as in NTSC.

This! I actually suggested this wayy back in P:M thread and I was asked how his jab works in PAL. Only way to explain this is that it's not ******** like in the flopamerican version. It just works like.....any other jab in the game.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

why would they deliberately make it like in ntsc? if theyre changing crucial things like how recoveries work and buffing all low tiers to the point where they're essentially new characters (which i think is good btw), how can you decide to keep something like this? >.>

 

[stelzig]

I think all the original characters turned kinda boring (and/or bad) in PM. Sheik would've been more fun with PAL dthrow IMO or the original NTSC dthrow for that matter.

I haven't touched any of them for very long though (i've been going pretty much only toon link the few times i've played it), so I guess my opinion could change. Also on that dthrow, though I find it kinda odd that this needed to be nerfed. Not like other characters (including some NEW) don't have "lame" (throw) combos. But yeah, if it did... My initial thought still is that it would've been better to just use PAL dthrow.

And yes, the NTSC gentleman is just stupid.

 

[Divinokage]

We have a good local Wolf.
Also, check out the lag on Ike's tilts, oh wait....there is none and they hit like a boss.
Ike will win FC, just wait.

Hell no, I will! Though I could take Ike too.. =P

 

[abcool]

This thread exploded with discussion recently ^.^ Post more thoughts people. Anyway, i feel Ike is actually quite balanced probably the most effective "kit" in the game. I just believe his recovery on walled stages is ridiculous. He can literally wall jump fair(which covers a big amount of space) and QD wall jump get hit off, to another QD walljump recover. I've even seen a vid with him going from the bottom str8 back up to the top. Only that needs to be tweaked to be less ********, his on stage game is managable. Top tier for sure.

An to the guy saying Wolf sucks. No he doesn't chillindude was ****** with him at PMS(lol name). Shields in this game needs to be fixed to work like how they did in melee as of now being offensive gets shutdown because you can't pressure shields the way you can in Melee and tilting them doesn't really cover a specific area either once it begins to strink(idk about this one for sure, but we'll find out) not to mention 1 frame delay on Momentum and movement. Once that is fixed and he still sucks for about a year or so you might see a tweak nothing serious i guess.

 

[The Star King]

Lol I like how some regions think Ike is broken, some think Toon Link is broken, etc.

 

[Jockmaster]

I watched chillin using Wolf, definitely looks like a character with potential. A british guy goes by Professor Pro has one thats even better. Looks like a solid member of the ****ing spacie crew.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Wolf doesn't suck he's just... a bad spacey.
Just because chillin used him well doesn't make him good. Axe ***** with pikachu, but pikachu is not good.
Also, lightshielding is a cool thing that should be brought back.

Oh the thing that bugs me the most is pikachu's upB. Its mad stupid. Melee upB please. He dun't need bull**** bouncey things, you could give him Pichu's PAWD instead.

 

[Jockmaster]

It's not that chillin was just "using him well". If you watch a good Wolf you'll see that he really does have potential. He has to simply be played differently than Fox and Falco, especially without the sex kick.

 

[abcool]

I think Wolf was made with the concept in mind more along the lines of "Falcon with a shine" his dair is beast and he got a good neutral A combination. I think shield and 1 frame delay holds him back just like Fox/Falco. Trust me even silentwolf(so i heard) approved of him.

 

[`dazrin]

Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) in BC mains Falco, and so in P:M, everyone (and once again, I mean EVERYONE) has a wolf as well.

With that being said, BC thinks that Wolf is super fun and has a lot of potential to be good. The only gripe is that he takes too much work for too little payoff, and that he's VASTLY inferior to the true spacies. People have been saying that if Wolf had a lingering hitbox, (a sex kick of some sort) he would be perfect. He doesn't really pressure shields nearly as well as fox and falco do and his moves generally aren't as strong. Other than that, BC loves him because he genuinely feels like a space animal.

And abcool, SilentWolf is PMBR and helped design a good portion of Wolf, so of course he would approve, lol. BC has played with the WA crew quite a bit (we're actually going to their monthly gameclucks tournament this weekend to play with them again, and Shadic and are are gonna try to set up a P:M side event, so perhaps there will be videos of SW and his lucario/wolf soon :D) and he constantly says that wolf's aerials are perfect the way they are and that they should NOT be changed. It has been brought to his attention that Wolf needs a sex-kick and he replied with, "=/ well, if he really NEEDS it... but I dont really think he does." So PMBR probably won't give him a sex-kick any time soon.

 

[DerfMidWest]

That was basically all that i was saying lol. Wolf is good, but not a spacey yet.

 

[abcool]

I stand by my word with the "Falcon with a shine" Falcon doesn't have a sex kick either, but he make it work. I think wolf is the same, not all th kinks have been worked out, so until EVERYTHING is 100% Melee or close to it. I would wait to change wolf the guys moves link together better than Fox/Falco just about anything leads into Fair or bair an at times F-B. He really doesn't need it unless like a year or so later people still think he sucks with the physics fixed. I kinda like his "kit" now, but i feel the 1 frame and no shield pressure screws him mostly and i think he is also a victim of momentum stacking, which again throws him off.

 

[It's me Q]

why would they deliberately make it like in ntsc? if theyre changing crucial things like how recoveries work and buffing all low tiers to the point where they're essentially new characters (which i think is good btw), how can you decide to keep something like this? >.>

This. Ive not even played it yet but it's not encouraging knowing falcons been nerfed in this way

 

[VietGeek]

This. Ive not even played it yet but it's not encouraging knowing falcons been nerfed in this way

you guys misunderstand

it IS like the PAL gentleman

wow guise meduka is suffering but damn yo

obv

 

[Revven]

You can do PAL gentlemen in P:M. On hit the punches are far enough apart from the hitlag to work like PAL, but on whiff the hold A NTSC way can be useful.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Can wolf still dash out of his shine? I thought that was the COOLEST thing lol

 

[Onomanic]

Can wolf still dash out of his shine? I thought that was the COOLEST thing lol

He can waveshine but he can't dash out of shine. He can however laser dash, which is SHL to Waveland. I think that's pretty neat.

 

[wiitubeaccount]

Project M is the best things to ever happen to smash, besides melee's release! Also, the best mod created since dota. I will most likely play it more than smash 4 when that comes out.

 

[KishPrime]

Trail and I have $5 on Ike winning/not-winning FC.

PM at FC will be awesome.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think it's a cool idea and so far fairly well executed. Feels like they imported or adopted a lot of character-specific advanced techs from Brawl for the new character models but kept Melee's engine for the most part. Really neat.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Trail and I have $5 on Ike winning/not-winning FC.

PM at FC will be awesome.

I might have to go Ike so Trail wins that bet.

 

[DerfMidWest]

[edited because I'm an *******]

 

[Divinokage]

I might have to go Ike so Trail wins that bet.

Only if you are able to win P:M. =) You will not beat me with Ike, especially since he's a character I specialize in.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Kage, what's your opinion on P:M ganon?
Do you feel as though he just had his strengths buffed and kept all the same weaknesses he has in melee?

 

[Divinokage]

Kage, what's your opinion on P:M ganon?
Do you feel as though he just had his strengths buffed and kept all the same weaknesses he has in melee?

Well he certainly still has his weakness when getting shield pressured but his recovery overall I think is much better in P:M than in Melee which helps him a lot. Giving Ganon another chance to smack someone off-stage is very good. In melee, that doesn't happen often because you can just get daired and die but in P:M you have a much better chance to avoid these things. If he's faster and a bit stronger while having good mix-ups with his side-B, he's a great character right now. =)

 

[DerfMidWest]

A lot of people I've talked to think ganon is borderline broken (of course, we're all bad here in cleveland) so how do you think he ranks in comparison to the rest of the cast right now?

 

[`dazrin]

I think he's annoying as all hell to play against, but he's not broken at all.

He's still pretty combo-able and slow, but yeah.. He's SO annoying. T_T

Shield? NOPE. Flame-Choke.
Tech? NOPE. Chain-Grab.
Roll? NOPE. Wizard's Foot.
Recovering? NOPE. Aerial Flame-choke.

...Jeeeez >_> Annoying character, but very beatable.