What are your opinions on Project M?

[FrootLoop]

Snake being able to air dodge out of UpB in v1.0, then not being able to in v2.0

xeylode how is that a huge change lol

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

"huge" is relative. A tweak such as snake's ability to airdodge or not out of UpB is huge relative to my examples of PAL vs NTSC such as increasing Yoshi's weight by like 2 points or giving Mario's ffilt a 1% increase to its damage.

A couple point change to weight or 1% to a move doesn't change how you play the character. Giving or taking away options in recovery does change how you play. Thus, my reasoning for using the word "huge".

 

[Scidadle]

Regular brawl will never be abandoned for Project: M

And SD Remix will never be a tournament standard.

Pretty sure about that. It would be cool though

Also I love P:M. It keeps gettin better. I'm probably gonna get some hate for this but I would honestly be okay if everyone who played melee quit and played P:M.

I don't want brawlers to quit brawl though because brawl players are gay as sheeeeit.

 

[FrootLoop]

"huge" is relative. A tweak such as snake's ability to airdodge or not out of UpB is huge relative to my examples of PAL vs NTSC such as increasing Yoshi's weight by like 2 points or giving Mario's ffilt a 1% increase to its damage.

A couple point change to weight or 1% to a move doesn't change how you play the character. Giving or taking away options in recovery does change how you play. Thus, my reasoning for using the word "huge".

if it's not absolutely huge then why is it not alright?

 

[JKJ]

I absolutely love Project: M. I used to hate it for the 2 frame lag (which impacted my play pretty significantly) and the terrible shield mechanics. Now that the two frame lag is gone, and the shields feel a little better, I'm loving playing it. I love trying out new characters, I love developing metagames, and I overall just love the idea of a legitimate Smash sequel. Melee is still better, imo. I don't know why, but in Melee everything still feels faster. Not that slowing things down isn't good, but I feel like a Diddy Kong/Dedede match feels a ton like Brawl.
Fun nonetheless, just slow-paced.
I like the lightning-fast pace of a spacy ditto or a falcon spacy match in melee far better.

 

[VietGeek]

a non-fastfaller match-up can still be just as slow in melee lol

although more people have to clarify what slow means to them

pace-wise as in actions per minute of w/e people get off to in the smash community nowadays or actual time duration lol

if its the latter then every smash game is slow as **** unless someone is getting bodied mad hard

former won't change the fact that most matches in the melee still average around 3 minutes.

obv

 

[bubbaking]

Right now, bowser, kirby, and ness went from garbage to S tier in one demo with like 3 changes.

You guys broke Ness and showed that the only way to balance a game with the spacees in it is to either nerf the spacees or turn everyone else into them. Might as well make Melee Minus while you're at it.

@Xeylode: if you want to AD OoSypher, you can drop/explode a C4 and AD immediately after that, since C4 is really quick, regardless of whether you're setting it or exploding it. I know it's not as good as ADing off the bat, but it's good.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

You guys broke Ness and showed that the only way to balance a game with the spacees in it is to either nerf the spacees or turn everyone else into them. Might as well make Melee Minus while you're at it.

@Xeylode: if you want to AD OoSypher, you can drop/explode a C4 and AD immediately after that, since C4 is really quick, regardless of whether you're setting it or exploding it. I know it's not as good as ADing off the bat, but it's good.

If SDR turned into Melee Minus it'd take so much time away from my Project M playing

Spoiler

Granted it made Melee more, not less deep and technical of course

 

[VietGeek]

If SDR turned into Melee Minus it'd take so much time away from my Project M playing

noted. we'll begin work once i stop hating smash bros

obv

 

[Kink-Link5]

Also I love P:M. It keeps gettin better. I'm probably gonna get some hate for this but I would honestly be okay if everyone who played melee quit and played P:M.

But Ice Climbers

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

if it's not absolutely huge then why is it not alright?

I think your getting too hung up on this small example I was using to help explain a broader opinion of something I would not like to see with P:M in future. Only it seems it was a poor decision to have even used it at the time.

Imagine P:M has its final build already made. I play this game for a year and have spent a long time practicing with a character I like. Then, P:M all of a sudden gets a update which becomes the new tournament standard. However, the character I spent all this time playing got changed. It wasn't a minor change such as giving its Dtilt 1% of damage increase. No, instead they decided to alter something a bit more hefty which would alter how one plays the character and the sorts of options they have in different situations. With this in mind, I would ultimately have to change my decision making based on the change they made. Perhaps I spent a lot of time working with this characters recovery, but the change made altered the recovery in way that essentially wasted all my efforts to focus on that one aspect of this character's play-style.

This is the sort of direction I do not want to see P:M going with in future. Once they make a final build, I want it to stay FINAL. No changes in future. Brawl is approaching 5 years old and it hasn't changed at all. Smash64 has seen no updates either in all that time. These are final builds that will stay final. That is what I want to see with P:M.

Hopefully, that fully explains my stance of what I feel about P:M at the moment. Now about the point you seem pretty hung up on. The example is suppose to capture the essence of what I felt might constitute as a large change, one which might alter how you make decisions with using the character. Decisions which were made before an update to P:M and to a character and compared to the decisions made after a theoretical update to P:M's final build. This example I chose with Snake was not suppose to have all the attention drawn on it to be deliberated and dissected. It was suppose to be a real example that happened which embodied/symbolized/represented the core idea of what might be considered a large/huge/not-negligible change. So, its not the fact that Snake being able to airdodge out of cypher which is not alright. Its the idea this example was suppose to represent and convey in my initial post which was not alright.

I thought using an example was suppose to bolster the message I was trying to get across, but apparently it had the opposite effect. Oh, well. Maybe lesson learned in future.

Actually, I seem to have a ton of problems trying to get what I "want to say" to you frootloop most of the time. Probably because I'm so horrible at trying to explain myself.

 

[standardtoaster]

Once we are at or near a final release, I am very sure that characters will not be receiving any huge overhauls.

 

[Kink-Link5]

So how much is actually subject to change then?

It's not everything plainly.

 

[bubbaking]

In other words, if you don't like big changes, then wait a little while longer Xeylode, although there are already a bunch of chars who didn't receive big changes at all going from 2.0 to 2.5. Mario is a pretty glaring example.

 

[Beat!]

And Mario's the coolest character in P:M.

 

[Revven]

[snip]

If you're fearful is having to adapt to a radically different character from what you played last time, don't play it right now. Though, at this current time a lot of characters from 2.1 to 2.5 have changed barely, if at all. So, if that's still not a good sign to you then maybe you should wait a little longer and just play the game at fests or with friends, you know a more "lax" atmosphere but you'd still get acquainted with things.

When it comes to whenever a "final release" would be... I believe I stated this before in this very thread but I don't mind repeating myself. Basically what toaster said is true, when all is said and done (no more engine changes, all characters are in the game, it's the "final release" whatever that will wind up being defined as completely) you shouldn't expect any characters to change at all. Nothing should be removed or taken away from them unless something is causing issues with the game running itself, like freezing or bugs (though hopefully that wouldn't make an appearance in the release itself... hopefully lol).

The game will settle and likely the team will just watch the game grow. Probably a whole year or two, assuming there's continual activity and etc. Only in the most extreme of cases would you see the game get a "patch", i.e something incredibly broken players are abusing to ruin matches or stops the matches from completing. But nothing that should suddenly change how a character plays.

A main goal of ours is to absolutely maintain a character's playstyle so no one is afraid of their character being radically different and all their time put into the character then gets wasted. It's hard, but Demo 2.5 shows a lot of promise!

There's a very good reason why we have "Demo" in front of the version #. Because we are still tweaking the game with engine changes anyway. Characters are going to be affected one way or another, even if we don't touch them directly, currently. And characters, at this current stage, certainly are subject to changes. Final release, though? Unless there's community demand or, like said before, something is seriously broken I cannot see any character being changed suddenly if there would be a patch released for the final build or whatever you want to call it.

Hopefully that eases you.. I think it should!

 

[FrootLoop]

@Xeylode: I understand that it was an example I was asking why a change of that importance should not be allowed.

Right now I just want to play P:M to try out all the new mechanics and see what cool ideas I can make up with my friends. From this casual perspective those changes can be good because it can open up new strategies to explore. From a more competitive standpoint the changes are ideally making the game more competitive/balanced so that it is more enjoyable, which to me is clearly worth allowing changes.

I think skill is more abstract than knowing an option in some situations, and that time put into the game is really making you better at working with situations, rather than making you specifically good at just that exact situation. In that way, you're not really losing skill to changes apart from the time it takes to get back up to speed.

You're not really horrible at explaining, I just nitpick what people say a lot because I want to exactly understand what they're trying to say. I probably get it from having discussions at work with Wes.

 

[PB&J]

I know its only been out a few days but I think 2.5 has alot of problems . Archangelpit and I are going to write a big review on it. I think the game is awesome btw but I think the people who are creating the game needs to not try to please everyone and especially the people who complain about certain characters and what not.

More in depth review later

 

[Jockmaster]

I really just hope you guys release this thing soon enough to where there is still interest (basically a good 6 months before Smash 5 comes out)

 

[GHNeko]

>smash 5

looooool this guy.

 

[bubbaking]

PB&J, you were on that stream chat when Sypher and Fortune were talking about P:M, right?

 

[DerfMidWest]

Yo squirtle *****.

 

[Jockmaster]

>smash 5

looooool this guy.

Smash 4 **** you don't greentext on smashboards

 

[Archangel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AddAKBVP30k

 

[McFlyy]

I personally love PM but I really try not to compare it with melee too much atm, cause it's still in its demo stage. Once it's finalized I'll start with the criticism.

At times, it kinda feels like a group of people are just playing god with brawl... but you know what? It's a fine, more competitive alternative to brawl, imo. The cool thing about this mod is that we can give our input on what we think it should be, and the people modding it actually seem to listen.

So anyone who has a problem with something should voice their opinion on the PM forums. You might actually make the mod better by doing so. I mean, look at all the characters. They're all pretty much good, practical and fun to play. One of the biggest problems I have when I start playing is actually picking a damn character cause they're all so damn fun lol

All this being said, I still only play melee competitively and PM for fun.

Like I said, it's not a finished mod yet, so I don't feel comfortable trying to get competitive with it... yet.