What are your opinions on Project M?

[DerfMidWest]

I didn't mean uncomfortable, per se...
It just feels weird and people play differently because of it.

 

[JCaesar]

Jcaesar I think, said something interesting in regards to asking if he thinks Ike is OP. He compared him to shiek, I at this point do not think that is a fair comparison as the metagame we have today is far different and WAAAAAAAAY more developed than what we had back then when we thought shiek was OP. Some of the stupid comments fished up from back then prove this. There is the fact that we still have to learn the new character and the transition between melee to P:M isn't perfect, but it doesn't change whats happening before our very eyes. Ike at least needs a recovery nerf. Fast+Strong+good recovery= wat. Thats like combining a little of marth's speed with bowsers power.

I heard Ike has fanboys in the dev team from the commentators...so dont jump on my back too hard kids.

tl;dr its a unfair comparison, the metagame is different than it was back then, Ike needs a nerf.

I just meant that the metagame still has room to grow. Sheik seemed stupid OP at the beginning of Melee but now she's clearly not. Sure, P:M's metagame is currently much more developed than Melee's was back then, but there are a LOT of characters whose metagames have yet to be thoroughly explored. Ike is popular (and admittedly easy to play) and thus more developed right now, but that doesn't mean he won't be figured out and countered in the future. Even if he turns out to be the best character in the game, I do firmly believe he has some bad matchups (Link for example).

Except for when I was on the mic, the FC commentators' knowledge of P:M and the dev team was limited at best. Not to knock on them, they did a great job commentating on matches, but they did spread some misinformation about Project M simply due to unfamiliarity which is why I tried to jump on whenever I could. But I assure you we try to be as unbiased and professional as possible when balancing characters. But obviously balancing via closed alpha testing can only get us so far and there will be characters who seem like outliers such as Ike. Now we're in the phase where we collect and analyze tournament data, but we don't want to hastily throw out balance patches and realize later that, oh, Ike wasn't actually that bad, people just didn't know how to deal with him right away.

 

[S l o X]

I agree with Lovage, 3 stocks for PM seems more suitable.

 

[The Good Doctor]

I just meant that the metagame still has room to grow. Sheik seemed stupid OP at the beginning of Melee but now she's clearly not. Sure, P:M's metagame is currently much more developed than Melee's was back then, but there are a LOT of characters whose metagames have yet to be thoroughly explored. Ike is popular (and admittedly easy to play) and thus more developed right now, but that doesn't mean he won't be figured out and countered in the future. Even if he turns out to be the best character in the game, I do firmly believe he has some bad matchups (Link for example).

Except for when I was on the mic, the FC commentators' knowledge of P:M and the dev team was limited at best. Not to knock on them, they did a great job commentating on matches, but they did spread some misinformation about Project M simply due to unfamiliarity which is why I tried to jump on whenever I could. But I assure you we try to be as unbiased and professional as possible when balancing characters. But obviously balancing via closed alpha testing can only get us so far and there will be characters who seem like outliers such as Ike. Now we're in the phase where we collect and analyze tournament data, but we don't want to hastily throw out balance patches and realize later that, oh, Ike wasn't actually that bad, people just didn't know how to deal with him right away.

Like how you guys were going anyone talking about balance like.

"Every1 is top tier"

 

[Archangel]

3 stocks is not more suitable. You might get some matches that seem to take longer but honestly they are no longer than Samus vs Peach or the famed Puff vs Peach matches from genesis 1. You may even see the same think in Donkey Kong vs Bowser matches in melee on DL64. The difference here is Bowser and DK are more viable so there is a reason to play them now and thus you'll see some matches that may take 1 minute longer than you are use to seeing from Marth vs Fox. So what? At least it's not YL vs Puff length

 

[Strong Badam]

I played like 6 (?) games vs cmart's bowser with DK, games were about 3 mins each at 4 stocks.

 

[DerfMidWest]

but they feel so slow...
I'll do fox dittos in melee...
then fox dittos in P:M.... and its like... eeeeeewww...

even like... the mario bros feel slower...
so its not just space animals...
maybe its just me :\

 

[Jockmaster]

It seems that it might just be you :/ I think the fact that spacies are so prolific in melee makes some people really cynical of PM. The meta in PM is just different guys...every other person isnt using a fast-faller anymore

 

[DerfMidWest]

That wasn't what i meant at all lol.
Even characters like luigi and mario feel slow...
Pika feels so slow I can't even stand him...
I just want... More from the game.
But its pree good, and I know the PMbr has put a lot of work in and all and aren't obligated to do so.

It jus needs to feel less like brawl.

 

[Divinokage]

You just need to get used to the game, of course it feels different.

1. Because there's new stages and you have to understand the layout of it.. and that takes practice.
2. Every character has different mechanics, again something else you have to learn. You have to relearn matchups too. You have to learn also how the game actually works (The core mechanics and the interaction of hitboxes/shields/moves.. etc.)

Idk.. to me it feels just fine and yes I did try different characters at FC. The timing is a little different but that's kinda normal, it's another fighting game. You can't play P:M like Melee, it's impossible, if you do everything will feel clunky for sure, perhaps that's why you say it feels like Brawl.

 

[Archangel]

That wasn't what i meant at all lol.
Even characters like luigi and mario feel slow...
Pika feels so slow I can't even stand him...
I just want... More from the game.
But its pree good, and I know the PMbr has put a lot of work in and all and aren't obligated to do so.

It jus needs to feel less like brawl.

it's just you. Most likely you are hypnotized by melee graphics and those everything about project M will look funny to you. The reverse is possible. I played Project M for like 3 months straight without touching melee. Then when I played melee I was like...what the hell is wrong with this game. Why does everyone suck suddenly and some people look way too bright.

Luigi isn't slower his wavedash is simply easier to control so he is easier to pick up. His downB animation is werid which makes it seem slower and less useful but again it's a matter of getting use to it.

Fox's throws are a little off but that's do to a code error that's being worked on I presume and should be ok by the final release. Aside from that Fox is Fox.

 

[abcool]

Agreed with Kage and Archangel. Play this game like it's a sequel to Melee instead of a 1:1 clone and then you start to see the freshness in it. It's like playng Smash64 all your life and then going to Melee. You're gonna say things like "why is he able to DI out of my combos" or "Characters fall to fast" It's the same with Project M, just realise it's new and you gotta try new things atleast until they iron out some of the mechanics. If not stick with Melee till the final release.

It's called Transitioning. If you want to ofcourse.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I played the game everyday for like 2 months and still wasn't used to it.
I mean, its a good game, it just feels odd.
I also have trouble enjoying because none of the characters are fun for me...

 

[rawrimamonster]

Interesting that people are saying its very different when the team is trying for a 1:1 transition, hopefully the final version's characters will be perfect transitions. <3 I'll just have to wait and see when I get my cheap wii.

on that note, what are the differences that arent visible when you're not the one playing?...like I think I saw one fox and it looked a little floaty. Maybe it's a mental thing because of the brawl models.

 

[Archangel]

I played the game everyday for like 2 months and still wasn't used to it.
I mean, its a good game, it just feels odd.
I also have trouble enjoying because none of the characters are fun for me...

Interesting that people are saying its very different when the team is trying for a 1:1 transition, hopefully the final version's characters will be perfect transitions. <3 I'll just have to wait and see when I get my cheap wii.

on that note, what are the differences that arent visible when you're not the one playing?...like I think I saw one fox and it looked a little floaty. Maybe it's a mental thing because of the brawl models.

To answer both of you it's not meant to be an exact melee copy, if that was the case characters like Link would still suck. The physics are meant to be the same but they are currently about 92% matched. The remaining 8% is probably what people notice but those are coding issues being worked on daily. By the Final release of this hopefully the physics will be 100% transferable from melee to project M.

I know you probably played project M 2 months straight but it sounds like you also played melee at the same time in which case it constantly becomes easier to feel slight differences and see major ones. Some people "Myself included" put our melee disks in the case and haven't touched it since Project M's release and those of us that did our simply more use to it. At this point I'd have a hard time playing Melee tbh.

Also. How can none of the characters be fun for you? Unless you main'd someone who's not currently in the demo?

 

[kalamazhu]

worse than melee much better than brawl

 

[DerfMidWest]

In melee, my mains were pichu, fox, and ICs.
None of those characters are in P:M, so I played around with the whole cast and nobody really gave me the same rush I get when I play melee.
I played with Pit and Luccario a lot when the demo first came out, but they got old fast.
I tried pika... But i hate his brawl upB and he feels too slow for me.
I tried the mario bros, since i used to play around with them in melee, but luigi doesn't feel like luigi anymore, and mario is less enjoyable.

Please don't misunderstand, the game is great and I have a ton of faith in the project, I think the final product will be amazing, but right now I don't think it comes close to melee and still has a lot of work to be done.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what is done with the ICs and ZSS in future releases.

 

[Divinokage]

I have no idea wtf you are seeing in P:M but that sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

 

[Archangel]

In melee, my mains were pichu, fox, and ICs.
None of those characters are in P:M

Yeah, Sounds like you are playing some kind of ****ed up version or something.

 

[Dan Salvato]

Most people's distaste toward Project M is due to the fact that they expect Melee. Simply put, you're not going to see a sequel to a fighting game that works identically to the previous one, even when playing as the same characters. While we are replicating many of Melee's mechanics (because we feel they make for a good fighting game), Project M will always "feel" different for various reasons. It's a different game, and we prefer constructive criticism over "I don't like it because it's not Melee".

Though Melee is a great game and I will continue to play it for a long time, I believe Project M will, in the end, become a "better" fighting game than Melee. The mechanics, characters, and balance are being designed with professional play and metagame in mind, something Nintendo/Sakurai has not done before. My point is that Melee is not a perfect fighting game, but Project M absolutely has the potential to be.

 

[DerfMidWest]

makes sense.
and sorry, I actually started out trying to provide constructive criticism, but it kind of turned into me just *****ing.
so yea. P:M *****, but it isn't perfect yet.

I look forward to future releases.

 

[`dazrin]

P:M rapesss.

So much hype at FC, omg.

Melee ***** too.

 

[Archangel]

I think it's interesting that this is like the pre-school stages right now technically and it got so much hype at FC...The finished product my one day harbor melee as a means for surviving the upcoming years. I can totally see Project M-Melee events happening as time goes forward. Eventually Project M may even become the main event. Doesn't matter really though. I hope both survive at least another half a decade.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

My thoughts:

-Project M is the future of competitive Smash gaming

-I highly prefer Melee (Gameplay, mechanics, graphics, my experience & skill)

-Project M will surpass Melee in every aspect as a competitive game

-Project M is a testament to Melee's greatness and Brawl's failure

-Project M will make Smash bigger than it has ever been, it will end up benefitting all communities (especially the Melee one) in the end

-PMBR is amazing, they got this

-Project M will never please those with a certain fixed mindset

 

[`dazrin]

I think it's interesting that this is like the pre-school stages right now technically and it got so much hype at FC...The finished product my one day harbor melee as a means for surviving the upcoming years. I can totally see Project M-Melee events happening as time goes forward. Eventually Project M may even become the main event. Doesn't matter really though. I hope both survive at least another half a decade.

Melee/PM events is how tournaments will be run in BC from now on. I hope to host PM at GameClucks in WA whenever I'm there as well- (because we all know that Shadic won't do it )

 

[Goast]

I'm honestly more hyped for Project melee than smash bros 4. It's going to be interesting to see how the division will be amongst players

 

[abcool]

I wished Mango entered singles lol. That don't give a *** attitude really worked well in doubles for him, until he fought Vro and Axe. I wanna see that 8 stock match though lol. Project M is soo fresh for the community and the craving for a sequel to Melee will finally be fufilled. If shields were like Melee right now and SCD on tumble this game would be played soo much more seriously.

 

[ShroudedOne]

People who are saying that Ike is OP should be rounded up and slapped on the wrist gently for being such silly children.

And then put in a timeout corner for 8-15 minutes.

 

[Archangel]

Ike is balanced but in a very bad way. He's too good in some areas and extremely bad in other areas. He looks OP'd.

 

[Strong Badam]

I love it when bad players make statements about the game's balance.

 

[Divinokage]

I wished Mango entered singles lol. That don't give a *** attitude really worked well in doubles for him, until he fought Vro and Axe. I wanna see that 8 stock match though lol. Project M is soo fresh for the community and the craving for a sequel to Melee will finally be fufilled. If shields were like Melee right now and SCD on tumble this game would be played soo much more seriously.

Hbox and I, we annihilated Chillin and Mango in teams. lol. It was pretty funny.

 

[Archangel]

I love it when bad players make statements about the game's balance.

Sounds to me like you think you can beat me. Is that what you are saying? or was that directed at someone else?

 

[`dazrin]

StrongBad can definitely beat you, Spam.

StrongBad is monkey-strong; therefore, he on an elevated skill level and you can't compare to his supremacy.

Yep, StrongBad *****.

Also Mango wanted to enter P:M singles, but he thought he had to pay extra for it, so he didn't, :/
I'm probably one of the only people who has footage of Mango playing P:M singles friendlies using his Fox/ Mario. (His Mario is way better than his Fox in PM) Those videos will be uploaded sometime after the 25th of August because Meta has the videos on his portable harddrive and he doesn't come home from Minnesota until the 25th.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Strong Bad plays Donkey Kong because he wants to grow up big and strong like him.

 

[`dazrin]

Nope. StrongBad is already big and strong.

He's monkeystrong- hence why his name is "STRONGbad"

 

[Kink-Link5]

No see it's like French, the modifiers are all out of order. It's really "BAD Strong" like, bad at being strong, see?

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

The strong is bad with this one

 

[abcool]

Did that match get recorded Kage? I wanna see it. Edit: Yeah i think i saw it on stream lol.

Does anyone think Wolf is good in teams?

 

[DerfMidWest]

Doesn't matter why strong bad plays DK, he's clearly got the biggest ****.

 

[Divinokage]

Did that match get recorded Kage? I wanna see it. Edit: Yeah i think i saw it on stream lol.

Does anyone think Wolf is good in teams?

Oh ya it was definitely on stream. I remember when we won, Mango gave me the finger and i gave it back while staring intently at each other lol.