What are your opinions on Project M?

[abcool]

I won a P:M tourney last night

We would like your input on the game Hungrybox the ups and downs about the demo. An also how many people entered the tourney?

 

[`dazrin]

I won a P:M tourney last night

^Really? Which one was that? Any vids?

it will create a merge of the scenes, our communities in london are starting to converge a little which is cool.

playing somebody you know as a brawler in P:M and they're all wavedashing and l-cancelling and ****, it makes me respect the technical skill potential in some brawlers

I completely agree, j3ly! The brawl and melee communities are slowly uniting (here in BC, anyways) because of P:M and the fact that it appeals to players of both communities. I initially thought all the brawl players would've been free, but it turns out that the top brawl players are actually pretty good! It's really amazing to see both communities being united and playing with each other once again ^_^

 

[Divinokage]

Hbox is godlike.. Im going to beat him in P:M, my chances are a lot better.

 

[metroid1117]

For me, Project M is proving to be what I always wanted Brawl to be - another Melee with more characters, stages, and some ATs. There's certainly still work to be done in terms of balancing and polishing of mechanics, but I'm confident that the PMBR team can and will deliver us a true Melee 2.0 where all characters are viable in tournament.

Also, I'm EXTREMELY pleased with what they've done to Ike except for the [lack of] ending lag on his tilts and his ability to indefinitely QD wall-jump.

 

[foshio]

It totally brings scenes together. Top melee and top brawl players are winning big tourni's (Melee: Axe, Hbox ect, Brawl, TheReflexWonder) It is really fun and interesting to watch the game play develop.

 

[abcool]

Hbox is godlike.. Im going to beat him in P:M, my chances are a lot better.

You need to get some matches recorded i need to see that ganon wreck stuff. I also would love to see more Melee players play Project M doubles. Lucien and hostility were destroying **** at CGC.

 

[JaceComix]

What I love most about the game is making every character viable. Melee's upper tiers make for a pretty good roster of about 15, but bumping that number up to 20 or 30 is going to make the game exponentially more interesting to play and watch. C:

 

[Divinokage]

You need to get some matches recorded i need to see that ganon wreck stuff. I also would love to see more Melee players play Project M doubles. Lucien and hostility were destroying **** at CGC.

Well if Hbox would want to team again somewhere, we could wreck stuff for you guys.

 

[`dazrin]

What I love most about the game is making every character viable. Melee's upper tiers make for a pretty good roster of about 15, but bumping that number up to 20 or 30 is going to make the game exponentially more interesting to play and watch. C:

It's going to make teams really cool to watch/play because of the numerous amounts of team compositions you can make, rather than just fox+anything

 

[Archangel]

DDD+Pit = DESTRUCTION!

Also Bowser+Anyone.

 

[Jockmaster]

Bowser has to have a Jiggs counter

 

[ItalianStallion]

I like project M Definitely not as much as Melee though, and it'll never replace Melee for me. But I like it enough to have an interest for entering tournaments. I don't think I would go as far as to sit at home and practice moves alone like I do in Melee though. But I like it

One thing I don't like though are some of the sound effects (like someone mentioned earlier). That, and Pikachu's wavedash kinda sucks and looks ******** haha.

Also all of the moves just don't feel as hard hitting as they do in Melee. All the moves in P:M just kinda feel "softer" than in Melee.

I am praying you change your mind when the final product is out. Once they get the 1 frame lag fixed (Which is probably the main reason why people are saying it feels off from Melee), specific character stuff fixed (Like Pikachu's up-b), and other issues fixed like shield push-back and what-not,I believe the game will be much more accepted. Even more-so if they are able to find an easy way for people to get like a Melee texture pack or something.

I just really want to see you wrecking with a buffed Pikachu, or Kage wrecking with a buffed Ganon, or TAJ wrecking with a buffed Mewtwo (Praying they can code him in eventually). The idea of a balanced cast just makes watching tournaments much more interesting. It's ok if you decide to basically stick to Melee, but I will be rooting for you to become a beast with Project M Pikachu. I'm actually rooting for all the top Melee players to make Project M their main game. I firmly believe it's the future of competitive smash. People want to be able to play their favorite character and feel like they have a chance. 40 viable and balanced characters sound much more interesting than 7 viable characters.

I was a Melee vet, a Mewtwo main, and I once proclaimed that Melee was perfect the way it was. But seeing this project opened my eyes. I bought a Wii, and am trying to start a PM scene (I've gotten a few Melee vets hooked on it, and 2 casual Brawl players hooked on it as well). I am completely in love with the mod and I will be one of the people to say that even in it's demo 2.1 form, it is better than Melee by a long shot. And I love Melee to death.

Not that there aren't things that need to be fixed, but that's like the whole point of a demo.

I believe it will easily be the thing dominating the tournaments when the game is finished.

 

[Vigilante]

Well for the sounds, if you're into BSRAR editing, it should be entierly possible to bring Melee sounds back actually. I have one that does just that actually.

Also I've heard many express their concern that we'll keep recalibrating the game after full release. I don't want to speak on behalf of the backroom for we haven't quite discussed it, but I personally don't think we'll go there. I think we can do a decent enough job not to warrant not having to go back and changing how the characters play. I think that the most you could expect after a release would probably be along the lines of patching a freeze glitch issue that could have flown under the radar (hopefully this doesn't happen), or maybe (and I say maybe without knowing if we would) content patches that would add say... features like extra costumes slots or whatnot.

But in terms of balance, don't worry, we're not Brawl+.

Edit: For those who thought this game's timing is somewhat different, there are things we are aware of and we know how to fix them. Brawl's coding is a mess so it takes a little bit of time to fix imposed input lags and other such things. I can guarantee you that the final product will have frame perfect timing.

Edit 2: I remember you Bing, it was nice of you to come by!

 

[cannedbread]

i love pm. i honestly prefer it over any smash game at the moment. i'm mostly rooted in brawl, but i always had interest in all of the smash games equally. i don't really prefer one over the others at all, although i haven't played smash 64 in years.

i enjoyed melee to an extent, but the feel of it has always bothered me. it's not really the lack of buffer or anything, because i can play just fine in pm with no buffer. it just felt really sticky and unresponsive, and because of that i've never really bonded with melee as much. i don't really like the balancing of the game either but then again smash wasn't supposed to be competitive. i really love watching competitive melee though. i'm gonna have to go to a big tournament one day.

but anyways. i really love project m. it has that familiar to me brawl look, but with a bunch of advanced junk to wrap my fingers around, and a viable cast too. i agree with a lot of the people about the audio though. i mean some of the audio (ike's attacks) sound really dramatic and in-your-face like melee, but alot of the sounds are mad annoying. like literally every pokemon except zard have some really blah sfx. pikachu and puff have those squishy noises like wtf. lucario's sfx are just like rff rff. it's kind of bland. i miss that sharp swinging sound (think marth) and that hard thud sound that literally every fist fighter has when they use a smash attack, like foxs usmash. it adds that much more to it imo. maybe if they mess with the mix and add more bass or dampen the highs.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

TAJ wrecking with a buffed Mewtwo

Taj needs to try out Melee SD Remix (the Balance Patch).

Mewtwo is half god in that game

 

[forward]

Give Taj a buffed mewtwo and he will become the best player in the world!

On topic though, I like P:M a lot. I mostly like playing the Brawl characters who were not in Melee. The Melee characters don't feel exactly like they used to they're old/stale to me anyways.

I agree with Axe on the "soft hits" part, too. A lot of moves don't have the hitstun you think they should have, although that can just be part of learning the character. Still though, Falco's shine > dair > shine combos don't work anymore, so I think it's likely that hitstun is a little too low.

 

[Divinokage]

Give Taj a buffed mewtwo and he will become the best player in the world!

He cant beat a buffed Ganon though! The gap has not reduced!

 

[Strong Badam]

There are still a few issues preventing Melee veterans from being perfect transitions, but rest assured that they aren't intentional. In the final product, e.g. Falco's shine combos should function identically.

 

[`dazrin]

^
-Whenever that will be. =/ Here's hoping it doesn't take another 2 years >_<

 

[Jockmaster]

I'm hoping for a spring/summer 2013 release. Seems on par with the progress thus far.

 

[abcool]

If they can't fix much things i just hope they fix shield push. Then shield pressure would be wayy more effective making spacies get a big part of their game back. If that was like Melee now i could probably wait another 2 years on a full release.

 

[Strong Badam]

That's definitely a possibility. Just a matter of time.

 

[CableCho57]

jw, but do you guys think brawl players will actually play this?

because it's basically melee with more characters/stages right? and if they would play this, why don't they just play melee?
and "MOAR CHARACTERS, BETTER GRAPHICZ, MOAR STAGES" are lame reasons for brawl players to play P:M over melee imo

the physics, technical skill and gamestyle are reasons why melee players don't play brawl.
so I want to assume its because of the physics, technical skills, and gamestyle why brawl players won't play P:M/don't play melee right now

 

[rawrimamonster]

Depends entirely on the specific players, some play brawl because they couldn't handle Melee, some play brawl because it was a good progression for them. Ideally we'd love everyone to be able to move onto something better but that's obviously not going to happen because people will always have their comfort zone. Plus with Project M, despite it not being difficult to use most likely...theres the fact that people will have to do something different in order to play it, and that involves makin effort to make changes which simply put...they do not want to do.

 

[`dazrin]

jw, but do you guys think brawl players will actually play this?

because it's basically melee with more characters/stages right? and if they would play this, why don't they just play melee?
and "MOAR CHARACTERS, BETTER GRAPHICZ, MOAR STAGES" are lame reasons for brawl players to play P:M over melee imo

the physics, technical skill and gamestyle are reasons why melee players don't play brawl.
so I want to assume its because of the physics, technical skills, and gamestyle why brawl players won't play P:M/don't play melee right now

Actually, surprisingly enough, the majority of the entire BC, Canada Brawl community jumped on board with P:M instantly and LOVE it way more than brawl. The melee players love it too, but the people who haven't tried it yet are skeptical and are reluctant to try it. Although, EVERY player who has tried it so far has at least liked it, and most LOVE it. Some melee players just think its okay and pretty fun, but still prefer melee- which is totally fine and natural considering PM2.1 is just a demo and there's still much work to be done.

But yeah, All the brawl players fell in love and aren't looking back. Strange, but awesome! :D

 

[CableCho57]

dude I find that so strange! lol

because if they are willing to play P:M [goes as far to say they LOVE it and are willing to put the effort to learn the advance techniques (which are pretty much like melee)], why don't they play melee????

I just don't get it

 

[rawrimamonster]

I haven't played Project M myself but I imagine the way some combos lock and the way the game flows might feel different than Melee/Brawl so its all preference. But like I said, Haven't played it (yet) so I dont know.

 

[Vigilante]

Montreal's scene is also very in love in Project M actually. My understanding is that Melee players have quite a variety of views. I fear that they see our demos and assume the problems with them are intentional. However, you've got to realize that coders can't do everything at once and will eventually get to these issues. In fact, our dev build already plays noticeably better than demo 2.1. I can't tell you what these advancements are, but Melee players who felt something was "off" about a few things will notice that their issue was resolved in our next release.

Some Melee players seem to be waiting for something closer to the full release, and that's fine. Others seem to simply be closed-minded about the possibility that Melee can be improved, and there really isn't much we can do to convince them. The quality of our work should speak for itself and I personally believe in it. Melee players demand more than just extra content. They will scrutinize your gameplay mechanics, study frame data, etc... The development is taking a while because we're not willing to to compromise with the quality of our work to meet a deadline. Of course, it's not like we're taking our time either, lol.

Although I have to say that Pikalex is in large parts reponsible for the Project M scene growing in my area. The man gave me an opportunity to show off the mod and he deserves my thanks.

And Kage, you suck, I will money match you with american money. Bring it. (I feel I will regret these words)

 

[`dazrin]

dude I find that so strange! lol

because if they are willing to play P:M [goes as far to say they LOVE it and are willing to put the effort to learn the advance techniques (which are pretty much like melee)], why don't they play melee????

I just don't get it

I think the reason why the brawl players were much more open to P:M is because the brawl players are rapidly losing interest in brawl and aren't having very much fun playing it anymore, as the main appeal of brawl was just the fact that it was "new" and added characters and new mechanics, as well as being easier for many players to pick up than melee was. Now that everyone's familiar with it, its just flat-out a boring game. As a result, they looked into P:M with and open-mind full of excitement. It's literally a breath of fresh air for them. A very small % of the brawl community is waiting for their character's to be added in at a later release, (Diddy, MK, Zamus, Yoshi, etc) but for the most part, everyone is in love.

To answer your question, "Why don't the brawl players just play melee?" is because melee isn't "new" to them, or they have the impression that the game is too hard, since everyone is so good at it already. With P:M, they feel like they have a chance now with the new characters and all the brawl techniques being retained in P:M. I'm sure the fact that P:M looks like brawl and plays slower than melee also draws them towards it all the more.

On the flip side of that coin, the melee players seem slightly relunctant to try it at first because it still retains its brawl-look and "feel". Some melee players are turned off by the fact that many of the characters that were bad are viable now, and are annoyed that they have to relearn MUs and new stages. Also many of them complain that it's not "exactly" like melee, and so they aren't too impressed on the broad spectrum of things. However, the players who have taken the time to try it all like it, and think it's a lot of fun. I think once a final release is out, we can expect more melee players to turn their heads and start picking up P:M.

For now, its going to remain as a side-event until some issues are polished. Many people forget that P:M is a demo, and that's really unfortunate because their first impressions may get spoiled depending on how critical they are. However, its great to hear that big name players (Armada, Leffen, M2K, Mango, etc) are getting into P:M in its demo2.1 state and liking it a lot.

Some Melee players seem to be waiting for something closer to the full release, and that's fine. Others seem to simply be closed-minded about the possibility that Melee can be improved, and there really isn't much we can do to convince them. The quality of our work should speak for itself and I personally believe in it. Melee players demand more than just extra content. They will scrutinize your gameplay mechanics, study frame data, etc... The development is taking a while because we're not willing to to compromise with the quality of our work to meet a deadline. Of course, it's not like we're taking our time either, lol.

And Kage, you suck, I will money match you with american money. Bring it. (I feel I will regret these words)

Great to hear this, Vigilante. I'm really looking forward to a demo3.0! :D
Also, you will eat those words because Kage's Ganon is now a monstrosity.

 

[CableCho57]

hmm yeah that makes more sense. I have yet to try the latest version, but I refrain from playing P:M as a melee player for some of the reasons you listed

 

[Vigilante]

Lol, yeah, it's a bit hard to get into the Brawl graphics at first mostly because some, like me, just viscerally hate Brawl (now, I hate the game, not the players. I met very agreeable brawl players). It takes time to get used to it... and a Meleefied Falco and Ganon texture because grandpa Ganon doesn't have as much nostalgia swag.

Though one thing about textures. If you guys are doing tournaments, I would probably advise against using custom textures that change the shape of the character (I use some that slightly help colour-blinded players for teams, personally). I think Melee textures are fine, but anything beyond that would probably bother a lot of players. One should not get Naruto when selecting Ike, lol.

@Daze: I live dangerously, buddy. See you in Valhalla.

 

[abcool]

Another reason people play Project M over Melee is because their Brawl characters can be used almost exactly the sameway they use them in Brawl with a few variable differences. I call it Brawl style/Melee style. Brawl players don't dashdance much or utilize wavedashing a lot to space themselves, they tend to use walk animation get the best positioning and have the best reads. Melee style is more techincal, wavedashing/dancedashing helps with this most.

This alone makes Project M better and more fun for Brawl players than they would playing Melee. Not to mention some Brawl players use different controller setups. Like that Pikachu player from Canada that was destroying **** with a Wiimote and nunchuck. Accessibility makes Project M better all around for Brawl players to perfer it over Melee.

 

[Jockmaster]

Yeah Reflex is a great Wario player in Brawl and his skills with the character seem to have translated very well to Melee from what I have seen.

 

[fatman667]

I first dissed it pretty hard and claimed it'll never be as good as melee, but then I tried it and I f***ing love it. Will it ever replace Melee? No. Do I play it more than Melee? Yes, because I can truely practice with awesome CPUs since many of my friends don't play Melee at all or they just suck.

 

[forward]

Well I hope you guys don't just make the returning melee characters identical to their melee counterparts. I know it's P:M but me and many other melee veterans find melee to be stale now. We've seen all the situations and combos so many times, if I play P:M I don't want to see the same combos. I really wouldn't mind if you guys made some drastic changes to old characters. Replace Falcon's main KO move from the knee to his Falcon punch and make the move faster, let him chain his B attacks together. Just give the characters enough changes to make them feel new.

 

[`dazrin]

Another reason people play Project M over Melee is because their Brawl characters can be used almost exactly the sameway they use them in Brawl with a few variable differences. I call it Brawl style/Melee style. Brawl players don't dashdance much or utilize wavedashing a lot to space themselves, they tend to use walk animation get the best positioning and have the best reads. Melee style is more techincal, wavedashing/dancedashing helps with this most.

This alone makes Project M better and more fun for Brawl players than they would playing Melee. Not to mention some Brawl players use different controller setups. Like that Pikachu player from Canada that was destroying **** with a Wiimote and nunchuck. Accessibility makes Project M better all around for Brawl players to perfer it over Melee.

I truely agree with this. Captain L, (Pikachu player from Canada who uses nunchuk) plays pika vitrually the same, but adds QAC-Wavedashing, l-canceling and wavedashing into the mix. BigD, our DDD player, decimated the very first P:M tournament I hosted just by shield-grabbing, bthrow, and ftilting recovering players. He uses Wario the same as brawl Wario, as well as Sonic, Falcon, and Ike and does decent with all of them. Quite impressive, to be honest.

Well I hope you guys don't just make the returning melee characters identical to their melee counterparts. I know it's P:M but me and many other melee veterans find melee to be stale now. We've seen all the situations and combos so many times, if I play P:M I don't want to see the same combos. I really wouldn't mind if you guys made some drastic changes to old characters. Replace Falcon's main KO move from the knee to his Falcon punch and make the move faster, let him chain his B attacks together. Just give the characters enough changes to make them feel new.

The problem with this is that it turns off a lot of melee veterans who want to just play their old mains. I know quite a few Ganon players who don't like Ganon at all now because he's even with the small changes that were made to him. But I totally see what you mean, and I completely agree, but that's what the brawl new-comers are for! Plus once clone engine is in, they will have the ability to add their own characters, so it's all good ^_^

Shoutouts to Captain L who is banned for posting "This isn't even my final form" Woody doll on the forums.

 

[Lanceinthepants]

Bowser is pretty good.

 

[Jockmaster]

I ****ing love Ganon now, what main do you know who doesn't like him? Hes actually still very much the same, the biggest addition being the chokeslam which is badass

 

[`dazrin]

All 3 Ganon mains from BC, Noobking, bwmat, and DaZe (a different daze) all don't like Ganon in P:M because of how different he is. They don't feel like he is "Ganon" anymore for some reason. But Kage still seems to like him, and I guess that's what matters. hahah

 

[Divinokage]

Well I'm a little biased, I love Ganon regardless.. except in Brawl he's just awfulllll..