[Week 12] Zelda's Moveset Discussion: Down B (Transform)

[Oh Snap]

Hmmm...still can't pull off the breversal...

 

[Villi]

Hmmm...still can't pull off the breversal...

Do a full-hop; tap your joystick behind you; press B. You don't even have to do it very fast. Voila, turn-around special.

Remain standing on the ground. Rapidly input B and then the opposite direction you're facing. One after the other in quick succession. B first, then tap your joystick behind you. You can't do this too fast unless you're pressing the buttons at the same time.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I can;t seem to do it reliably.

of course, I haven't really taken the time to practice it. I'm sure jumping using up is making it more difficult... it always does -_-

 

[SinkingHigher]

0-death combo in the Zelda/Sheik guide. Learn it plz.

 

[Oh Snap]

I can do the reversal 100% of the time in the air, but no luck on the ground LOL.

...will check the guide.

 

[Discolicious]

neutral b= get off me!? to dins fire

 

[RedSnowman]

I'm really bad at using this as a non-reflector move. Occasionally I set things up with it but it seems like people who are savy to Zelda can punish you every time for it. A Luigi, with his less than spectacular ground run speed, if timed right can run after the last hit of NL and get a successful b+up off on you. Granted this is hard... but it still can be done. The cooldown just kills me with this move. I do like the idea of using it off the edge that somebody else mentioned but I just have a hard time using this move often/to combo.

 

[Villi]

I don't think it's a great combo move. It's more like **** struggle. If it doesn't work, you get *****.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Nayru's Love is a great move..... that is not for you to spam.

 

[Oh Snap]

I have no idea what to do for this/next weeks move =(

...maybe downB?

 

[RoyalBlood]

How about Dair or Jab D:

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

jab already has a whole thread

 

[-Mars-]

I don't think it's a great combo move. It's more like **** struggle. If it doesn't work, you get *****.

Lol, I actually considered siggin this

 

[Villi]

I consider dair pretty useless most of the time. I wanna hear more about it.

 

[RedSnowman]

I consider dair pretty useless most of the time. I wanna hear more about it.

Man I love dair for edgeguarding. It really allows me to mix things up. Zelda really has a vicious edguarding game due to all of her options, dair, f/bairs, uair, and even nair has it's uses.

 

[Oh Snap]

D-air it is.

And I gotta do a crap load of updating lmao.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

D-air it is.

And I gotta do a crap load of updating lmao.

heh... yes you do.

Anyway, Dair.

It's an amazingly powerful spike, but it's soewhat hard to sweetspot and, ****it, it won't sweetspot if they are on the ground.

It actually has decent reach and prioriy, or, at least, more than the average person gives it credit for, but it's not amazing in either respect.

you really need to learn what moves this can go through because it can make a nice defensive move if you do.... but just looks stupid if you do it against a move you can't go through.

nair, jab, nayru's, as well as some other moves situationally can set up to use it as a death spike.

also, if sourspotted it can lead into LKs.

I like to use it when I'm above a grounded oponent who I know will try to attack me a certain way and I KNOW I can outprioritize... only things coming to mind is the ness I used to play all the time, I'd use to reject his Uair... and against Olimars I go through Usmash with it.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Weak Dair to Footstool, guaranteed kill on characters without multi-jumps ^_^
It trades with Mr. G&W's Up-B ^_^

 

[Oh Snap]

D-air is best for setting up lowww % kills. I killed a Jiggs once by B-throw -> Dair on the battlefield and the Jiggs was at 0% lol.

Ez kill at the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYEoWsPSZOE

 

[RedSnowman]

Dair is great for mixing things up. Against certain characters it makes for a decent approach and it's a good way to get back to the ground from time to time. If you sweet spot at a decent percent people die... all there is to it.

 

[Kataefi]

Hi! I'm new! Welcome me! XD
I used Zelda at the start when I picked up brawl so hopefully what I say isn't totally useless! (and if it is UH OH!!!)... but I find dair to be an almost useless means (but not entirely) of getting back onto the stage from above, especially when someone's chasing me. I normally either teleport down into another attacks, fastfall nair, or din's into usmash instead.

I just find the move a bit too slow for my liking. But I LOVE using dair off the stage as a spike, definitely! I find it MUCH easier pulling off spikes when I fastfall dair, and I've noticed I seem to get them more consistently when I'm directly on the top-centre of a character's body, no matter the actual distance. Strange huh?

Hope this post wasn't too controversial ;D

 

[MRTW113]

Dair? I'm not that great with sweetspotting, so I usually go for sourspot combos, or for edgeguarding mindgames...

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Dair, for the most part, is one of her less useful moves, but at one point I managed to lightning spike a Metaknight during Shuttle Loop. It made the noise and everything so I don't know how it got through the invincibility frames. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Dair, for the most part, is one of her less useful moves, but at one point I managed to lightning spike a Metaknight during Shuttle Loop. It made the noise and everything so I don't know how it got through the invincibility frames. Just something to keep in mind.

he actually? has invincibility frames? I thought he was just really freaking difficult to hit.

and, in response to royal blood, I'm positive game and watch's Up+B outprioritizes you unless your hitting him at, like, the very end of it. In which case, what the heck is he doing in a position where he is that low and doesn't autosweetspot?

 

[sniperworm]

he actually? has invincibility frames? I thought he was just really freaking difficult to hit.

and, in response to royal blood, I'm positive game and watch's Up+B outprioritizes you unless your hitting him at, like, the very end of it. In which case, what the heck is he doing in a position where he is that low and doesn't autosweetspot?

Actually, I've beaten G&W's UpB at the startup (not sure how and not recommended). The G&W must've done it right before he got hit (and therefore was ********, hence why it shouldn't be done) because I still floated up (like if he used UpB and I was near him) after I sweetspotted him. I suppose it's possible that it was a Uair, but the CPU never Uairs with G&W while it's recovering (although I was under the impression that G&W had invincibility at the beginning of his UpB, so maybe it was a Uair).l Does the Uair produce the floating effect even if it didn't come out?

Anyway, Dair is cool to occasionally protect yourself as you're falling back down (they usually don't expect it if you fast fall onto them). Sometimes after you draw out an airdodge during an air to air encounter you are in a situation where you can sweetspot the Dair, so why not right?

I also like landing on people with it every now and then because sometimes it stuns them long enough for me to Dsmash afterwards (trips them maybe?). I've also used Dair on a person standing on the edge of the stage as I passed by and then jumped and used Bair them to kill them (I was jumping from onstage to off). Not that I suggest doing anything in this paragraph, just things I've done before.

Oh, and as far as I know, MK's Shuttle Loop has no invincibilty.

 

[Brinzy]

Easily my least liked move in Zelda's arsenal. Ugh.

 

[RoyalBlood]

I checked the video again and Mr. G&W wasn't on the top, he was going up but not at the top ^_^ When he was about to reach max altitude, he and Zelda traded ;D

 

[CedricIzDead]

Yeah, I don't really like Dair that much, tbh. It's awsome when you sweetspot it for kills at low %, but otherwise it's kinda a waste. It seems hardly worth the effort of finding the sweetspot at like 100%+, y'know? Least liked move, but can have uses

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Yeah, I don't really like Dair that much, tbh. It's awsome when you sweetspot it for kills at low %, but otherwise it's kinda a waste. It seems hardly worth the effort of finding the sweetspot at like 100%+, y'know? Least liked move, but can have uses

it's sometimes better when not sweetspotted.

it can buffer into other attacks on the stage.

 

[CedricIzDead]

it's sometimes better when not sweetspotted.

it can buffer into other attacks on the stage.

Maybe you're right, I just should learn some combos after sourspotted, lol. That's what I get for trying to become a Zelda main from Peach (maybe joint to Peach). I'm just so used to having a really useful Dair. (Sorry if that offends )

 

[Villi]

Dsmash is my most consistent way of getting people off the stage into dair/up air range.

Some pros:

- It completes in a short hop.
- It can be fast falled to buffer into other attacks.
- Its hitbox is disjointed at her boot and reaches to her shoulder.
- A rising full hopped dair will hit tall characters.
- It will eat a good chunk of shield if it sweet-spots.
- It completes in time to re-grab the ledge after ledge hopping it.
- It's a spike.

. . .

- It has a small chance of tripping, but not enough to count on.
- It has an upward knockback at high percentages, but at percents where it's more beneficial to just have them be dead.


Some cons:

- It has terrible landing lag.
- It has practically no hit-stun.
- It has a noticeable frame disadvantage if it hits a shield.
- It leaves Zelda open anywhere on her body that is not her boot.
- It's very difficult to fall onto a grounded opponent without receiving landing lag.


Zelda can double jump before hitting the ground after a rising SH dair. She's close enough to the ground that a rising double jumped bair is almost as effective as a rising SH bair. It's not unpunishable because of dair's low hit-stun.

Remember that if you're holding down on the joystick before c-sticking dair, you won't fast fall. The trick for not getting landing lag seems to be not fast falling it unless you're doing a rising dair.

Sweet spotting a dair and then using Naryu's/dash attack on someone's shield when it's weak doesn't seem like too bad an idea to try once for a good chance to break someone's shield.

If you're having trouble killing someone at a high percent, dair just might give you the approach and knockback you need to set up for a kill.

A few things I like to do involving dairs on the stage:

SH rising dair -> buffered dtilt
SH rising dair -> rising double jump bair
SH rising dair -> rising double jump dair -> ff fair
SH rising dair -> rising double jump nair -> falling bair

Full hop rising dair -> falling fair/bair
Full hop rising dair -> ff buffered up air


Dair is also a decent counter against certain characters like Falco and Sheik whose aerials allow them to follow up their launches quickly and then punish your air-dodge with another quick attack. Good to use pre-emptively when you expect a follow up.

 

[Oh Snap]

Wooo done my updating! Just gotta find some vids with people using d-air ^_^

this weeks move is...
overused (most of the time)
good
probably one of zelda's best moves
and yeahhhh.

 

[Kataefi]

Erm...

AMAZING PRIORITY is all I have to say. It beats a lot of other characters' dairs except pikachu's (or maybe I'm mistiming it...)

Other than that I think it's her BEST consistent killing move if she doesn't over use it. I tend to use utilt and then bring out usmash later on to get the kill.

The only problem is... it's a smash that's so feared, many characters won't venture into that kind of territory (above Zelda) EVER. I think this hurts her game a lot because she excels having her opponent above her.

I love jumping, using din's fire to make the opponent shield or airdodge (zelda should have landed by now very near to the opponent from her jump), then usmashing. It works a treat and puts a lot of pressure on the opponent's shield.

That's all I have to say! =D

 

[Airgemini]

I literally spam this move. I hyphen smash it for approaches. I use this move to rack up damage and use Fsmash to kill at higher percents.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Two dairs can beat it, in my experience:

Lucario
Game and Watch
(Possibly Metaknight, although the spacing would have to be nuts)
I have not tested either of the Links

This means that the rest of the cast is your ***** when trying to land.

I think we all know how awesome this move is. Great defense, great pressure option, great killing. Only problem is that they can DI out of it (for some reason Marths can do this easier then everyone else, not sure why).

 

[Kataefi]

Two dairs can beat it, in my experience:

Lucario
Game and Watch
(Possibly Metaknight, although the spacing would have to be nuts)
I have not tested either of the Links

This means that the rest of the cast is your ***** when trying to land.

I think we all know how awesome this move is. Great defense, great pressure option, great killing. Only problem is that they can DI out of it (for some reason Marths can do this easier then everyone else, not sure why).

Usmash beats both links and their dairs. Though it's MUCH harder to time with toon link than link.

Also I've beaten GnW's dair, but not consistently. I know it can be done.

And pikachu's definitely beats it from my experience.

With lucario, the fact he stops his momentum and will probably spam dair makes for a great uair set-up from Zelda than usmash.

 

[Oh Snap]

Does it beat Ganon's downB? Man, that attack is scary when you're grounded!

But yeah, usmash is probably Zelda's most spammable move after Dins'...wait, it's more spammable than Dins'!

 

[-Mars-]

This move is a godsend to her move set. Against fast fallers, it can even string into itself for some nice damage. I actually think the fact that people don't go above her is great for Zelda, because then people are always afraid to crossover her shield.

 

[Kataefi]

Does it beat Ganon's downB? Man, that attack is scary when you're grounded!

But yeah, usmash is probably Zelda's most spammable move after Dins'...wait, it's more spammable than Dins'!

I've NEVER risked it.

Though I'd love to know myself. I think I'll test it. I want to make a chart showing everything usmash can beat. I'll do that later.

Also, with ganon, I find his dair is very easily telegraphed when he falls towards Zelda. For this reason I short hop to uair. Works even better with tap jump on. A wise ganon won't take the risk, because uair beats EVERYTHING coming down. It is the highest priority Uair in the game.

But back to Usmash, I like to follow down tilt lock with this move at lower percents providing the opponent trips or is laucnhed ever so slightly. A great way at racking up damage.

When an opponent approaches from long distance they expect a din's so they can air dodge. Time the din's right so they jump and air dodge almost above Zelda. On most occasions they'll be caught into usmash.

HI GUYS btw! I'm new to the smash boards but definitely not new to zelda herself. I think she's brilliant in this game, and I'm starting to pick her up again from a long break in using her.

 

[Kataefi]

Does it beat Ganon's downB? Man, that attack is scary when you're grounded!

But yeah, usmash is probably Zelda's most spammable move after Dins'...wait, it's more spammable than Dins'!

Oops! I thought you meant dair.

Yes Zelda's Usmash beats Ganon's down b from my experience.