[Week 12] Zelda's Moveset Discussion: Down B (Transform)

[Oh Snap]

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Comments: Pages; Posts

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Comments: Pages 20-22; Posts 289-319​

Her grab attack is really slow, so It's really hard to use it for damage build up. 2/10

Her Fthrow is pretty decent. Nice knockback at high percentages. Damage is alright. But no follow-up. 6.8/10

Her Bthrow is better for killing than Fgrab, but her grabs in general aren't take good. Better follow-up on low percentages, but the knockback seems to esclate pretty quickly, so comboing this is null in mid-percents. 6.9/10

Her Dthrow is below average. Nothing special. 5.2/10

Her Uthrow is alright, but I never really use it unless I want the enemy to get up on the second platforms. Good for positioning, but that's about it. 5.9/10

Dthrow is tricky to follow up on, which makes succeeding in a follow up less certain. You're not gonna land a lightning kick or up air against anyone worth their salt, but it lets you go into guess and check mode which can pay off.

Do they DI away from me and try to punish with an attack?

Do they DI the other way and go straight up?

Do they not DI at all?

Do they air dodge immediately?

Do they try to double jump to safety?

Depending on who you're fighting and where you are on the stage, some responses are more likely than others and some solutions are more applicable. It helps you get to know eachother.

Zelda's throws are.... meh. too powerful and slow for reliable follow up and too weak to kill. Fthrow is nearly useless most of the time. Bthrow at least has SOME power, dthrow CAN lead to follow ups if they are stupid and uthrow puts them above you which is a bad place for them... but none of them are great.

and her grab just sucks. it's got good range, not great but good. but it's SOOOOO FREAKING SLOW. it's not even amazing OoS because so much can hit her before she can grab. -_-. and her dash grab is even worse.... it's just sad.

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Comments: Pages 18-20; Posts 262-288​

If a lightweight screws up an approach, I hit them with this (unless I can charge Dsmash or go to edgeguarding). Good setups, as said, while dequeuing a slot in stale moves.

And it does get pretty close to star K.O. against Kirby kind of lightness. So I suppose you can use it against people with bad dairs to set up for uairs. . . not what I do though.

This move is great. Situationally at. . .70-90%, I think (well basically, just before Fsmash is actually a threat), angle it low against heavyweights who give you the time - if, for some reason, you don't want to get into a dtilt. I can't quite say the times I don't like to dtilt, but they come up, and I just use this.

Don't let this move get shieldgrabbed, obviously - Fsmash is way better. This is not a poke, it's something you pull out when you have a choice but Fsmash isn't the one. A powerful, damaging hit that sends them in an uncommon direction (above and behind you) - yeah, pretty much for reasons of staying on top of stale moves - remember that it's there.

Stale moves is pretty big for Zeldas, eh? Set uses for her attacks, but she's got redundancies, so you gotta remember to use them, and that could mean the difference in K.O.ing first.

Ftilt -> bair anyone?

I use that combo in the same way that one would use Nayru's -> dair at an edge, except I don't have to stand as close to the edge to place them off of the stage with it.

In all honesty, I forget about this move the most. I much prefer ftilts that don't have even mediocre KO potential, because then it can lead into jabs and grabs, and then it can KO. KOing ftilts aren't too bad, but the problem with Zelda's is the trajectory it has on opponents isn't really all too favorable. They're usually knocked too far away for an easy follow-up, though I think the point of this move was to use her Up-anything afterwards. This isn't to say that it has a harder time KOing or anything, but I only use it for KOing if my Fsmash has been decayed (as I tend to use Fsmash at low %s to set up strings of attacks that can get them to even 50%).

That said, even though it isn't a blindingly fast attack, there is no DIing out of it and the fact that it can be angled is good enough for me. It's better to use this instead of dtilt at very low and very high damages. Dtilt is probably better for in-between. All in all, it's a move that gets neglected for various reasons, but it isn't particularly worthless. Use it to heal decay, use it at very low %s, and use it to KO at higher damages.

This move is excellent on taller characters. Swipe at their feet and you'll probably stand a decent chance at going right under their shield. This is a nice follow-up if you've already eaten their shield with an Fsmash that might've been improperly spaced (as in, they were closer to Zelda than you wanted, shielded, moved back a bit, and then you ftilt at their feet for a virtually guaranteed shieldstab on a lot of characters). There are some characters that I just won't use this move on when they're grounded. Squirtle and Olimar are a couple of examples. This is because you're probably not shieldstabbing thanks to their height.

Like someone said earlier, angling ftilt upward is a nice answer to short-hops. Other than that, I would suggest against ever using this angle. The standard ftilt works a lot like the lower-angled ftilt, except you're probably not going to hit someone who is shielding with it. Pretty standard move.

Sometimes I'll turn away from my opponent and then turn and ftilt. If I don't want to have them wherever they'll be after ftilt, I Fsmash instead. I got into a bad habit of using Nayru's when someone was behind me; ftilt is probably a better option for this unless you absolutely can get off a better move than ftilt. Like I said earlier, I've hit with it a fair bit after a blocked Fsmash one way or another, and I think that being able to remove the chance of DIing out of the attack is a great reason to use it.

So essentially, my opinion is that you should just start replacing it with Fsmash when you're spaced out nicely for the move, because even though the final hit of Fsmash barely, barely outranges it, that comes out a bit later than ftilt, so why not get that range a bit faster? Angle it downwards and you have a better move. Upwards is good for short-hops. It's situational, but definitely usable, imo.

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Comments: Pages 15-18; Posts 218-262​

You have to be pro to spam Dins' effectively XD

Aside from all the stuff listed here, I stress that getting the most out of Din's is keeping yourself open for both opportunities to trap and to zone. My performance with Zelda went way up when I saw it as a trapping tool, but I still made the brickwalls when they worked.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183816

In particular, if you ever go to use Din's just because "it will make it," think about it before you do. Even if it lands, it doesn't always improve things for you. And there could be better options (I've seen *so* many times a Din's come out when a Lightning Kick would have ended it right there).

I mean, I would say the amount of time the uses of Din's apply break down as follows:

-Bait airdodge and punish - 40%
-punish misstimed rolls, dodges - 3%
-finish off certain combos (after nair a lot) - 4%
-edgeguard (especially ROB or gliders) - 34.9%
-Trade with certain projectiles - 5%
-force approaches from a good amount of the cast - applies when it applies
-short hop glide it to approach/retreat - 1%
-wavebounce mindgames - 4%
-punish vulnerable foes at a distance. - 3%
- recover from high occasionally - 0%
- RARE stagespikes - 0.1%

It's not about 'baiting airdodge' in my words; it's just about making them screw up. You send out the Din's with a plan both for if they do airdodge it, and if they don't. You also do it to make them change the way they move in the air.

When I'm forcing an approach, I find myself switching from just throwing it out as a wall, to actually control my opponent. That is, in the first case, I just make his life hard, hoping he'll screw up and take damage with no risk on my part. But as he gets closer, I position myself a bit, drawing out the moment he reaches me, making him engage with the spacing I want.

If you mix up standing, SH, and full hop Din's (with forward and backward gliding and mixing up the height where you use Din's) with Naryu's, you can often pester characters that can "outcamp" Zelda with projectiles by avoiding their projectiles while threatening them with yours. It's important to remember that most projectiles are linear in nature and therefore can be avoided while still using Din's Fire (since Din's Fire has lots of control).

When I want to approach for a kill against characters with projectiles that can outcamp Zelda, I often using a SH Din's glide to intentionally get hit by their projectile very soon after Din's leaves Zelda's hand. By angling Din's near their feet with this technique, you can then proceed to approach them with the fireball still traveling towards them to help cover your approach (obviously you can't be too far away or this won't work because of Zelda's poor movement speed). Din's Fire adds lots of extra pressure to your approach when they're at kill percents and taking the hit would mean that they're launched high in the air. I find that this works especially well against opponent's that tend to look at you instead of themselves because it forces them to focus on themselves for a short while (which is something they're not used to) so they can avoid Din's Fire.

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Comments: Pages 13-15; Posts 189-218​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFXxqTjKKF0 - 1:00 Zelda catches a B-air on Peach after being sent off by Snake's tilts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsNSftsl7sQ - 1:39 SHF-air misses, but leads to a B-air sweetspot; 2:53 Surpirse SHF-air after being attacked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADSESDTpVPo - 0:24 B-air after being hit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPWetA7YadM&feature=related - 1:12 Ledgehop F-air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pChTJOfbg8Q - 4:14 A double F-air. The lag is interuppted in the first F-air, letting Zelda land another F-air while Snake is stuck in the lag

Some tactics I uses with lightining kicks:

1. ledge release -> rising fair. It's a great way to get back onto the stage and it aims low so it can even hit small charcters fairly reliably if they don't expect it and sheild it.
2. run off ledge -> bair. This move is pretty much a guarunteed stagespike KO if the foe doesn't avoid it. they often WILL avoid it, but I like the payout... I deem the reward worth the risk.
3. Powersheild -> SH LK. Quite simply... you shold learn to punish anything you powersheild. and most atatcks can be punished with a ligthing kick.
4. grab release wario -> fair. poor poor wario.
5. ledgedrop -> LK if the foe is below you at an angle... it doesn't connect often, but if it's ever unnexpected, boy does it hurt.
6. platform chase -> LK. if the foe is above you, you have an easier time landing LKs... and are far less punishable for it.
7. Sourspot LK -> LK. self explanitory
8. dair on grounded enemy -> LK. Also self explanitory.
9. predict airdodge -> LK. It should **** anyone who is coming out of an airdodge for a nice EASY LK. you might wanna use this for Uair though, depending on the situation.
10. SH Fair-> bair crossover. always a very fun way to punish spotdodgers!
11. Sourspotted LK gimps. certain foes like falco and ness are pretty easily gimped during their recoveries by even the lightest of attacks.

I've FW'ed to the edge before my opponent and knocked them back off the stage before, then you can ledge-drop and b-air sweetspot for the KO. It's EXTREMELY sexy. I think there are replies. I do it quite often so there should be at least one or two,.

The sweetspot doesn't change but it can appear to change because the bair and fair have different spots. I personally favor the bair because the sweetspot is a bit closer to her body and easier to land (also stronger). The bair seems to be inside her heel while the fair is just outside of it.

Against smaller characters, I take what I can get in terms of lightning kicks. RARing a bair is really quite fast, but when you have to fall before you can hit someone on the ground, fair or bair work equally well and can work in conjunction. Lots of taller human shaped characters can be head-shotted with fairs, so if you need to run and jump before you can RAR, then fair is one of your faster options. Fairing is also easier for me to time out of a full hop because there's less time between inputs for me to misjudge. While I think bair is the better move overall, fair is not much worse and there are situations when it's the better option.

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Comments: Pages 11-13; Posts 152-155
U-smash Priority vs D-airs'​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rFj80eHO44 - 1:29 Zelda's U-smash combos into itself on the first level of Luigi's Mansion

AMAZING PRIORITY is all I have to say. It beats a lot of other characters' dairs except pikachu's (or maybe I'm mistiming it...)

Other than that I think it's her BEST consistent killing move if she doesn't over use it. I tend to use utilt and then bring out usmash later on to get the kill.

The only problem is... it's a smash that's so feared, many characters won't venture into that kind of territory (above Zelda) EVER. I think this hurts her game a lot because she excels having her opponent above her.

I love jumping, using din's fire to make the opponent shield or airdodge (zelda should have landed by now very near to the opponent from her jump), then usmashing. It works a treat and puts a lot of pressure on the opponent's shield.

This move is so great. With some characters (see: Ganon and C. Falcon), if you get them in the air, there is really NOTHING they can do to stop it except for get past Zelda to the ground. Usmash beats out all of their moves in the air, and they can't airdodge past it because as soon as they land, they'll get hit.

I think that if it couldn't be DI'd out of, this would be one of the best smash attacks in the game if it isn't already.

I really love her usmash. It racks damage, it kills, it's just a great tool... especially when you get to know the playstyle of your opponent. If you can guess they are going to sh approach you and use a sliding forward usmash in advance they get punished. If you make them air dodge for a potential uair and beat them to the ground you can punish with a usmash. Because of it's massive priority it is useful in a ton of situations. Not only that, but it's a great multi-hit move that punishes excessive spot dodgers and can shield stab sometimes if they shield. I don't know how I could play Zelda w/o this move to be honest.

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Comments: Pages 9-11; Posts 134-151​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnFtHNAjwV0 - 0:53 SHD-air to a jumping Fox; 1:27 FFD-air; 2:36 Zelda's FFD-air and Fox's Fire Fox trade hits

Dsmash is my most consistent way of getting people off the stage into dair/up air range.

Some pros:

- It completes in a short hop.
- It can be fast falled to buffer into other attacks.
- Its hitbox is disjointed at her boot and reaches to her shoulder.
- A rising full hopped dair will hit tall characters.
- It will eat a good chunk of shield if it sweet-spots.
- It completes in time to re-grab the ledge after ledge hopping it.
- It's a spike.

. . .

- It has a small chance of tripping, but not enough to count on.
- It has an upward knockback at high percentages, but at percents where it's more beneficial to just have them be dead.


Some cons:

- It has terrible landing lag.
- It has practically no hit-stun.
- It has a noticeable frame disadvantage if it hits a shield.
- It leaves Zelda open anywhere on her body that is not her boot.
- It's very difficult to fall onto a grounded opponent without receiving landing lag.


Zelda can double jump before hitting the ground after a rising SH dair. She's close enough to the ground that a rising double jumped bair is almost as effective as a rising SH bair. It's not unpunishable because of dair's low hit-stun.

Remember that if you're holding down on the joystick before c-sticking dair, you won't fast fall. The trick for not getting landing lag seems to be not fast falling it unless you're doing a rising dair.

Sweet spotting a dair and then using Naryu's/dash attack on someone's shield when it's weak doesn't seem like too bad an idea to try once for a good chance to break someone's shield.

If you're having trouble killing someone at a high percent, dair just might give you the approach and knockback you need to set up for a kill.

A few things I like to do involving dairs on the stage:

SH rising dair -> buffered dtilt
SH rising dair -> rising double jump bair
SH rising dair -> rising double jump dair -> ff fair
SH rising dair -> rising double jump nair -> falling bair

Full hop rising dair -> falling fair/bair
Full hop rising dair -> ff buffered up air


Dair is also a decent counter against certain characters like Falco and Sheik whose aerials allow them to follow up their launches quickly and then punish your air-dodge with another quick attack. Good to use pre-emptively when you expect a follow up.

I just find the move a bit too slow for my liking. But I LOVE using dair off the stage as a spike, definitely! I find it MUCH easier pulling off spikes when I fastfall dair, and I've noticed I seem to get them more consistently when I'm directly on the top-centre of a character's body, no matter the actual distance. Strange huh?

Anyway, Dair is cool to occasionally protect yourself as you're falling back down (they usually don't expect it if you fast fall onto them). Sometimes after you draw out an airdodge during an air to air encounter you are in a situation where you can sweetspot the Dair, so why not right?

I also like landing on people with it every now and then because sometimes it stuns them long enough for me to Dsmash afterwards (trips them maybe?). I've also used Dair on a person standing on the edge of the stage as I passed by and then jumped and used Bair them to kill them (I was jumping from onstage to off). Not that I suggest doing anything in this paragraph, just things I've done before.

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Comments: Pages 8-9; Posts 111-136​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg-2JssmAzg&fmt=18 - 2:22 B-reversal to D-air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE2iR_tRujU - 0:26 Nayru's Love still reflects the armour piece even the crystals are gone; 0:42 Love jump is used
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd5nwHlcwAs - 2:16 Good use of Nayru's Love

Nayru's Love is basically a godsend to zelda's moveset as well.
it comes out fast and is invincible upon starup.
It has nice range on both sides of zelda and ALWAYS sends the foe toward's zelda's front which leads to some interesting uses/setups with it.
it reflects all projectiles (increasing the speed of some)
it is a BEASTLY GTFO move, which is just what zelda needs in a lot of cases
watch ninjalink v. rykoshet 3 for a scary nayru's reversal
used off the edge, nayru's is a passable stagespike.
the reflecting effect lasts a deceptively long time
BAD NEWS ABOUT IT: lots of cooldown

It has a few offensive uses, but is a primarily defensive move that is highly punishable if predicted.

I really really love this move because it's a great 'landing' move after you've thrown some Lightning Heels at a grounded opponent. When you've shorthopped toward an opponent, sourspotted, and find yourself landing right behind him, this move is a fantastic follow up.

If you b-reverse it while you're traveling in a given direction, you will quickly shift in the opposite direction. I find this is useful to mix in sometimes after doing a RAR bair approach. Bair has a low cooldown, so if they attempt to punish they'll eat neutral B.

It's also a decent edge guarding tool. You can sometimes use it in place of a nair or dair, and you can fast fall into the opening frames of the attack which will stop your fast fall and allow you to recover from pretty much anywhere you need to be off stage after using it.

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Comments: Pages 6-8; Posts 81-110​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg-2JssmAzg&fmt=18 - 0:39 N-air is used after an unsweetspotted B-air to gimp Ike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccEgbc2kooo - 0:30 N-air OoS

Pros:
-Autocancels
-Most reliable aerial move
-Has decent speed
-Decent priority
-Racks up damage

Cons:
-Can be DI'ed out of

Ah, nair may auto-cancel but that's only after all the hitboxes are gone. If you fast fall it, you're guaranteed lag.

I usually use nair when someone is on a platform and I don't feel like it's safe to try a LK and I'm too far for an uair; or they're shielding. I'll jump out of shield with it sometimes if the char is in front of me and they're tall enough.

I'll use it to cross-up sometimes after a bair. I'll grab or dsmash if they're shielding and chase with a grab if the one-hit nair connects.

Pardon the double post, but if you DO manage to fast fall and auto-cancel it, those few frames when you're unable to perform any action before you land are perfect for buffering another attack. It's worth getting the timing down for this.

So you know, SH nair ***whirwhirwhir*** (sound effect), c-stick down (causes you to fast-fall) = buffered dtilt. This one is by far the easiest buffer to perform, and arguably the best all around move to finish it off with upon landing.

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Comments: Pages 4-6; Posts 45-78​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk6nd...eature=related - 1:04 Snake's roll is punished with a U-tilt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5jlvW5KV70&feature=PlayList&p=2980DE9F464908DB&index=6 - 0:38 A U-tilt is thrown out randomly and scores a K.O.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtT1BAGBa50 - 3:23 D-tilt to U-tilt combo is used

up-tilt is a great move when it hits it kills at low dmg, and most people don't see it coming and it can hit people behind you as well. it is not the easiest move to hit with but is worth trowing out there once in a while because it is such a strong killer. also at low dmg you can use a f-tilt to a up-smash or up-tilt combo. and i think someone already said you can hit with this move after a d-tilt when your opponent bounces up. i really like this move and since zelda it not a very used character and this is not a very used move it could surprise people with its strenght and and decent range

it can punish poorly placed/timed dodges and rolls.... but the BEST way to land it is to fire off a din's after somone recovering from high... if they airdodge the din's, which they mostly do based on reflexs... assuming you spaced and timed everything right, which is not too hard, they should come out of their airdodge RIGHT into your waiting utilt... which will likely kill by 100%

Since nair autocancels, I like to use this move immediately once I hit the ground. This is one of my few approaches with Zelda. I'll nair as I a approach and land just a little in front of them, most opponents don't want to be in front or above Zelda so their natural reaction is to either retreat(in which case you have nothing to worry about), or they will roll behind you. Since the nair autocancels the utilt comes out pretty fast and it punishes hard.

My best so far is Fast-fall air-dodge into an opponents long attack, and use U-tilt as soon as you land. If you timed it right, you should do it as they recoil from their attack.

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Comments: Pages 2-3; Posts 17-44​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMFUCOQG6TE - 2:06 A D-smash is used as a follow up after an unsweetspotted aerial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G5UFtvvN5U - 3:01 Spotdodge to D-smash; 3:30 D-tilt lock to D-smash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TadEwjuqJEs - 5:50 D-smash punishes Wolf's recovery, sending him to an unrecoverable state at 80%

Spot dodge an attack to D-smash is practically a combo. I think the only person that can attack consecutively quick enough to hit before the D-smash is Metaknight.

My favorite use of it is to punish dodging because you will usually hit twice which does a lot of damage.

I also use it to protect myself when landing from an ariel attack. It usually hits them before they can hit you, and if they do try to hit it is usually a clank and then you can just use another one lol.

It can also be used to edge guard in certain situations...

D-tilt to D-smash like sonic said is amazing and incredibly useful.

D-smash's speed is a great asset to Zelda, but the length of the move can shatter an abuser if your opponent is good at power shielding. Unlike Zelda's other smashes that can punish sloppy power shielders, Down Smash's multi-hit property is unreliable and mostly only works when the enemy's right on top of you, leaving you to complete the entire move in danger. It's probably her best smash for speed, kill power, and it's inability to be escaped, but it shouldn't be heavily relied upon, similar to Nayru's Love, as a close encounters move.

As for Dsmash, I love that move. I use it a lot against faster characters. One of the few things you can do to protect yourself against fast characters. Like it was stated earlier though, power shields make it's lag quite noticeable and not particularly safe.

DI'ing down into the stage and teching isn't a viable strategy of surviving the Zelda's Dsmash IMO. If Dsmashed near the edge of the stage, you won't have time for your character to bounce off of the ground (therefore you'll just screw yourself over by DI'ing down). If Dsmashed across the stage, you could DI into the stage and tech, but unless you're at an obscenely high percentage, you probably could've survived the Dsmash by DI'ing correctly anyway (since Dsmash only has decent knockback). So yeah, unless you have a decent amount of stage between yourself and the edge and the Dsmash will somehow still kill you, I wouldn't DI down and try to tech (the tethers are a different story though, it may be worthwhile because it might be possible to successfully do it closer to the edge of the stage).

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Comments: Pages 1-2; Posts 1-16​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtT1BAGBa50 - 2:03 Zelda uses a SHFFU-air to punish CF's recovery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUIEKq3Vhkw - This video is full of examples of U-air. 0:43 Ledgedrop U-air; 0:54 opponent air dodges Zelda's excecutes U-air; 1:06 Ledgehop U-air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4OBudwzZ-0 - 2:25 This Zelda jumps off the stage and uses U-air on Ness when he's jumping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OidToCYvzgI - 1:11 Zelda uses U-air from under a platform

Yay! :3 Well Uair kills too early :3
It's even better on stages with low ceiling ( Smashville, Greens Greens, Corneria)
SH Uair is also great if people are expecting it and try to dodge
Also it's good for ledge attack, just drop, Uair, and FW to the edge again, although is risky
It gets through some stages roofs or terrain ^_^ like Spear Pillar
I think it starts killing at like 50 % or 60% of the top or on low ceiling stages while airbone
It's a really great move for killing, so you should use it just for that, OR when you see and obvious opportunity

the best bet is to fake out and cause a foe to airdodge and then nail them as soon as they come out of it... or to just trade hits with a dair that you know is coming.

There is a trick I like to use to pull off an upair. Similar to how close you have to be to shinespike with fox, I get so close to my opponent that i'm touching them. Knowing that they expect it, they airdodge and I DI towards the ground directly underneath them, soon as they airdodge I blow them away.

-Mindgame airdodge to upair is great
-it's a good antiedgeguard against some chars (like Jiggs, if her edgeguarding gets predictable
-The threat of the move is pretty good. You can cause an airdodge, then just drop to the ground and upsmash the end of the airdodge
-With practice, beats the key everytime.

 

[Oh Snap]

Alright lemme say comment on uair: It's very predictible, but there's a trick I like to use when I get an opponent in the air with a usmash or whatever. Some of your opponents might air dodge when you jump for them when they're trying to land. What I do is wait till the animation is over or is almost over and use uair. It usually gets them, but you have to time and space yourself very well.

 

[Razmakazi]

I try to set it up for a kill later in the game. Sometimes I'd try a kick, sometimes a nair, sometimes an easily dodged uair and eventually I'll get to trying to predict their air-dodge and nail 'em later. either way, every time you get someone in the air it's obv they're trying their hardest not to get their fart lit.

meh, despite my kirb avy i'm a zelda main. >_<

 

[RoyalBlood]

Yay! :3 Well Uair kills too early :3
It's even better on stages with low ceiling ( Smashville, Greens Greens, Corneria)
SH Uair is also great if people are expecting it and try to dodge
Also it's good for ledge attack, just drop, Uair, and FW to the edge again, although is risky
It gets through some stages roofs or terrain ^_^ like Spear Pillar
I think it starts killing at like 50 % or 60% of the top or on low ceiling stages while airbone
It's a really great move for killing, so you should use it just for that, OR when you see and obvious opportunity

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Quite simply... this move and her spike are capable of killing at the lowest damages of all of Zelda's moves.

unfortunately... it, like Zelda's other directional aerials is VERY focused and does not linger. it also has noticable startup making it easy to airdodge... but, on the plus side, I don't think it can be parried and it has ridic range on it.

as such, even if you get nailed with a dair for it, you can potentially still connect with it for a KO at a low damage...

problem with this move is that it requires mindgames.... it's too slow to even reliably combo into it.

the best bet is to fake out and cause a foe to airdodge and then nail them as soon as they come out of it... or to just trade hits with a dair that you know is coming.

you MIGHT be able to force an airdodge with Din's and then hit with this when they come out of the airdodge... but normally Utilt, nair or Usmash will be more reliable.

few people expect this move, so shorthopping into it when the foe is above you could yeild fantastic results.... i only Zelda's Usmash didn't scare prople ou of that particular patch of airspace.

It's deceptive range can also hit through terain (spear pillar is notable) and can be used immediately after a ledgedrop OR while you ae recovering if the foe is trying to edgeguard or goaltend the edge... but these techniqes are both risky...

finally... it can be used MUCH more effectively in platform chases... so be sure to practice pulling it out a bit more on battle field.

Also... keeping it fresh isn;t a HUGE issue since it's so strong... but, you will NORMALLY have it fresh since it doesn't get pulled out often... and when it IS fresh... it can kill at very low damages... so keep that in mind

 

[-Mars-]

There is a trick I like to use to pull off an upair. Similar to how close you have to be to shinespike with fox, I get so close to my opponent that i'm touching them. Knowing that they expect it, they airdodge and I DI towards the ground directly underneath them, soon as they airdodge I blow them away.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

There is a trick I like to use to pull off an upair. Similar to how close you have to be to shinespike with fox, I get so close to my opponent that i'm touching them. Knowing that they expect it, they airdodge and I DI towards the ground directly underneath them, soon as they airdodge I blow them away.

^ Generally speaking, the most effective way to use the attack

 

[popsofctown]

-Mindgame airdodge to upair is great
-it's a good antiedgeguard against some chars (like Jiggs, if her edgeguarding gets predictable
-The threat of the move is pretty good. You can cause an airdodge, then just drop to the ground and upsmash the end of the airdodge
-With practice, beats the key everytime.

 

[Oh Snap]

I'd also like to add that Uair has really good priority. It can rip through G&W's key and Tlinks dair. Just time yourself correctly and you'll be able to kill them at 70%.

Honestly I don't think the BF is a good place to use uair or any other stages with platforms. Your opponents will probably just shield the attack. Most of us use this killer move before your opponent lands. The BF has three platforms which allows easy landing...so no, the BF isn't a really good place for uair.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'd also like to add that Uair has really good priority. It can rip through G&W's key and Tlinks dair. Just time yourself correctly and you'll be able to kill them at 70%.

Honestly I don't think the BF is a good place to use uair or any other stages with platforms. Your opponents will probably just shield the attack. Most of us use this killer move before your opponent lands. The BF has three platforms which allows easy landing...so no, the BF isn't a really good place for uair.

it is if you can EVER force a roll or spot dodge on one of the platforms.

 

[-Mars-]

I'd also like to add that Uair has really good priority. It can rip through G&W's key and Tlinks dair. Just time yourself correctly and you'll be able to kill them at 70%.

Honestly I don't think the BF is a good place to use uair or any other stages with platforms. Your opponents will probably just shield the attack. Most of us use this killer move before your opponent lands. The BF has three platforms which allows easy landing...so no, the BF isn't a really good place for uair.

It still eats sheilds and I think even if they sheild, it's powerful enough to knock them over. Your not going to be punished by them if you use it with them above you, so I see no reason why not to use it. Of course upsmash and uptilt are usually a little more reliable because they don't have as much lag, but it's really not that big of an issue.

 

[GodAtHand]

Against taller characters you can time it so even while they are standing it will still hit them...

This works on snake for certain but it is difficult to time...

 

[Brinzy]

Rising uair = best way to answer to Metaknight, Jigglypuff, or anyone else who goes off stage to gimp you. I love rising aerials in general, but you can do a rising uair from such a distance (the double jump + uair hitbox) that they never even see it coming. I killed an Olimar three times like this, because each time he was misjudging where I was at and if his dair would hit me.

Some say that it's best to leave this as a killing move, but I prefer to hit with this whenever I possibly can. It's already somewhat difficult to land.

 

[Oh Snap]

Hmmm....there's really no point in eating away their shield if it's not going to make it even close to breaking. By the time you land from the uair your opponent will already be off the platform doing whatever (hopefully not shielding again lol). You'll also get move decay; that's not a big issue since the BF is a small stage + uair has insane KB. But fresh KO moves are always good :3

The KB off the platform is good, though.

I use uair to rack damage as well...16% =o

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Ledgedropping to Uair is pretty risky, so I like to look to get back to the stage since FW is so easy to edgehog. I usually won't do this until I am guaranteed a kill from it.

I find a it a little more difficult to land Uair since when I knock people into the air, they usually try to get as far away as possible as they are trying to land.

 

[RedSnowman]

It is a good damage dealer and if I get a kill from it that's a bonus. I try to hit them with it in the air while moving away from them... so that I don't get punished. If they make a mistake they go off the top of the stage.... otherwise I've shown them they have to watch for my Uair and I go back to fighting them on the ground. I also like using Usmashs as a follow up if I beat them to the ground and have enough time.

 

[Oh Snap]

I have a question: Why do I always get that little jump when I try to SHFFUair? It's a good way to not be punished if your uair misses, but I always get that little second jump. Is it cuz I have tap jump on or something?

Also, I'mma pretty up the first post and add video links. If you have any videos that have a nice usage of uair, please post it.

DarkM's 'Playing With Fire' shows great usage of killing with uair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUIEKq3Vhkw

 

[Oh Snap]

Sorry for the late updates.

I added some video links on the first page, updated the comments on u-air, and now we're gonna discuss one of Zelda's best and fastest move: D-smash.

EDIT: Oh, and the D-smash picture I took is absolutely horrible. If anyone would help me take a better picture, I'd really appreciate it. D-smash deserves better ;~;

 

[Pappioll]

I have a question: Why do I always get that little jump when I try to SHFFUair? It's a good way to not be punished if your uair misses, but I always get that little second jump. Is it cuz I have tap jump on or something?

Also, I'mma pretty up the first post and add video links. If you have any videos that have a nice usage of uair, please post it.

DarkM's 'Playing With Fire' shows great usage of killing with uair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUIEKq3Vhkw

You mean like, when you do a Uair she sort of "jumps" while casting it?
If so, then it's because you have your second jump left. So when you flick the controlstick upwards for a Uair she actually does her second jump, and then casts it.

You can avoid it by either using the Cstick for aerials, or turn of stickjumping in the options section.

About the pic for Dsmash, I will try to snap a good one for it. I'll edit this post when I've taken one.

Edit:

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

oh darn it.... I had an EXCELLENT match with Sucessor of Raphael where I managed to nail him with an up air FIVE TIMES IN A ROW.... I simply beat out ness's dair every time.... but the match went a few seconds too long so... no recording



now as for Dsmash... it's amazing.... it semispikes and comes out in TWO FRAMES.... there are VERY VERY few attacks that come out quicker than this.... and I don't thionk ANY smash attack does.... and nothing near that speed has that excelent a trajectory attached to it.

At low damages, you can hit with both parts of the kick which does respectable damage, and at high damages you can put most foes in a place where they may be unnable to recover. It's amazing.

This move is comboed into from Zelda's amazing Dtilt... an excelent combo.

Also, this move can be used after successfully shielding an attack, or to punish bad rolls.

A less obvious, but no less useful application of the move is how excelent it is defensively... Zelda outranges most characters, and, becasue of this, she prefers to leave her oponents at a range where HER attacks can connect, but theirs cannot... having a move (two moves, couning Nayru's) in her repetoir capable of shaking foes off of her who manage to get too close... especially one which is so efficient at it, is an AMAZING benefit for her.

as far as downsides, the attack has mediocre strength and has limited range.... but, really, the advantages FAR outweigh these considerations.

 

[Brinzy]

Do not ask why I tried to dair through Zelda's uair that many times. Just... don't ask.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Do not ask why I tried to dair through Zelda's uair that many times. Just... don't ask.

well logic says... it had to be stubbornness, greed or sheer stupidity.... of course, it could be some mix of all of the above.... regardless... all the free damage was really nice, and I only had to settle for trading hits once

 

[Oh Snap]

Thanks for the picture Pappioll. Man, you're pictures are too good

I think Zelda's U-air rips through most, if not all the attacks in the game.
I can't think of any attack that can outprioritize her U-air.

Hmmm...does D-smash have a sweetspot? If you space yourself right and hit your opponent with the tip of the boot I think it can send your opponents farther then usual.

EDIT: It doesn't hit your opponent further, but I think it sends your opponent downwards.

 

[GodAtHand]

Spot dodge an attack to D-smash is practically a combo. I think the only person that can attack consecutively quick enough to hit before the D-smash is Metaknight.

My favorite use of it is to punish dodging because you will usually hit twice which does a lot of damage.

I also use it to protect myself when landing from an ariel attack. It usually hits them before they can hit you, and if they do try to hit it is usually a clank and then you can just use another one lol.

It can also be used to edge guard in certain situations...

D-tilt to D-smash like sonic said is amazing and incredibly useful.

 

[-Mars-]

Dsmash is a godsend... if Zelda didn't have it she would be another slow, powerful character that would get abused by the fast characters. This and Naryus are your two quickest attacks by a lot and you should use dsmash whenever you get the chance. I also use it to stop approaches.

 

[kATAlyst]

i cant say im a competent zelda player, or that i play good opponents, but i use it to follow up a din edgeguard, and the trajectory or knockback almost always kills. other than that i use it like nayru

 

[popsofctown]

It seems like dtilt doesn't have to trip to make dtilt->dsmash a true combo, can someone look into that? i think it's true, and that's why dsmash is a really good follow up to dtilt.
Spotdodge dsmash is awesome, it's practically a true combo (just kidding... if someone completes the move you spotdodged before you complete the spotdodge, they can beat out the dsmash)

There's really not too much about the move to note, because it's a really fast move with a limited hitbox. If they are in the hitbox, do it immediately, it will probably hit.

The trajectory on the move punishes characters for having bad recoveries, more so than any trajectory besides "spike". So this is probably a preferred kill move against characters with poor recovery, like link, Ganondorf.

 

[Silent_Rain]

omg, Zelda's downsmash is by far her best move. It's so fast and strong it's like, "whoa"
I think it's sweet when you land 2 hits with it.

 

[Oh Snap]

Pops: I think opponents can shield it...my opponent did it once and I used the cstick to dsmash.

When does Dsmash send the opponents at a lower angle? I can only do this sometimes. It'd be better if I can do it more.

btw, I won a match yesterday thanks to dsmash! I was getting owned by this fox the the first two stocks and I miraculously dragged him down to one stock as well. Then I started to use dsmash and I won. Woooo. XD

 

[Villi]

Pops: I think opponents can shield it...my opponent did it once and I used the cstick to dsmash.

When does Dsmash send the opponents at a lower angle? I can only do this sometimes. It'd be better if I can do it more.

btw, I won a match yesterday thanks to dsmash! I was getting owned by this fox the the first two stocks and I miraculously dragged him down to one stock as well. Then I started to use dsmash and I won. Woooo. XD

It depends on their DI. I think If they DI it close enough to the ground, they can tech before they leave the stage.

 

[PK-ow!]

I save my Dsmash. Nayru's does a lot of the same job, seemingly larger hitbox and more options (like aerial use), but Dsmash can KO. So I keep it fresh.

Except against heavyweights. Donkey Kong weight or heavier, I think. No, Wario weight or heavier. Ganon is an exception (to the exception - so I save it against him). Zelda and Ganon's moves each really disrupt the other's flow. Dsmash and Nayru's each have their use against him.

Against these heavyweights, the knockback is the relief you need and you can take advantage of its hitboxes on Zelda's upper body (seems to go to her arms). Nayru's becomes too weak against these guys; you'll usually eat something right after.

 

[ShadowCosmos]

It depends on their DI. I think If they DI it close enough to the ground, they can tech before they leave the stage.

But at the same time if they DI down but still go too far they'll completely screw themselves over (unless they have a good tether recovery to grab the ledge, or they float around like DDD, Jiggs, Meta and the such I guess)

So I guess at lower %'s they can still tech it, but at higher %'s they may just kill themselves trying to DI it.

 

[Iris]

D-smash's speed is a great asset to Zelda, but the length of the move can shatter an abuser if your opponent is good at power shielding. Unlike Zelda's other smashes that can punish sloppy power shielders, Down Smash's multi-hit property is unreliable and mostly only works when the enemy's right on top of you, leaving you to complete the entire move in danger. It's probably her best smash for speed, kill power, and it's inability to be escaped, but it shouldn't be heavily relied upon, similar to Nayru's Love, as a close encounters move.

 

[Villi]

Nice analysis Iris. I'll definitely have to notice when I'm fighting a power shielder and be careful about my dsmashes when they're pressuring me. When I'm in control though, dsmashes are usually preceded by at least one dtilt so unless they have a good oos attack, it's hard to punish.

But at the same time if they DI down but still go too far they'll completely screw themselves over (unless they have a good tether recovery to grab the ledge, or they float around like DDD, Jiggs, Meta and the such I guess)

So I guess at lower %'s they can still tech it, but at higher %'s they may just kill themselves trying to DI it.

How smart of a thing it is to try is definitely reliant on how good a horizontal recovery you have/whether you have a tether recovery. You can actually DI it to a pretty survivable trajectory as far as most recoveries would be concerned, which is likely the better choice.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

How smart of a thing it is to try is definitely reliant on how good a horizontal recovery you have/whether you have a tether recovery. You can actually DI it to a pretty survivable trajectory as far as most recoveries would be concerned, which is likely the better choice.

thing is... it comes out so fast... often DIing in time just doesn;t happen

 

[Villi]

thing is... it comes out so fast... often DIing in time just doesn;t happen

It's sort of an instinct to DI as soon as you get hit, isn't it? You just have to choose which direction you wanna go for certain characters at at a given percent. Zelda, you only need to worry about her dsmash trajectory. The rest, you can try to smash DI out of or at least have enough time to change your DI to the right direction.

It's not that much of a change, but enough that if you wanna chase them off stage, you can usually plainly see whether you should try for an uair or dair.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

It's sort of an instinct to DI as soon as you get hit, isn't it? You just have to choose which direction you wanna go for certain characters at at a given percent.

yeah it is.... but the majority of your direction is determined by DIing immediately upon being hit with an attack.... most people's reflexes aren't that quick against the Dsmash... they'll DI after they're hit... but it doesn't do as much

 

[Villi]

yeah it is.... but the majority of your direction is determined by DIing immediately upon being hit with an attack.... most people's reflexes aren't that quick against the Dsmash... they'll DI after they're hit... but it doesn't do as much

Yeah, it is fast enough to be a surprise sometimes. Especially if you can get them while they're preoccupied with something else. If you're punishing with it, they'll probably be able to react though.

 

[luvs2pluck]

dsmash is definitely one of my favorite zelda moves. its one of her more reliable kill moves if kept fresh, but can also be used as a great spacing move if they are being too aggressive and you need a breather; plus, it comes out quicker than most smashes in the game

 

[ShadowCosmos]

How smart of a thing it is to try is definitely reliant on how good a horizontal recovery you have/whether you have a tether recovery. You can actually DI it to a pretty survivable trajectory as far as most recoveries would be concerned, which is likely the better choice.

What I was talking about in particular is Links DI+tether, cuz with that and right timing you can survive Fox/Falco's Dsmash to upwards of 200% and almost at 300% with the right reflexes, and it can save you from other low trajectory launches (like Zelda, not at that high though) if you tether the ledge before you fall.

But that's only in the case of Link, and you probably won't be playing too many Link players...

EDIT: Grammar <.<;