[Week 12] Zelda's Moveset Discussion: Down B (Transform)

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

What I was talking about in particular is Links DI+tether, cuz with that and right timing you can survive Fox/Falco's Dsmash to upwards of 200% and almost at 300% with the right reflexes, and it can save you from other low trajectory launches (like Zelda, not at that high though) if you tether the ledge before you fall.

But that's only in the case of Link, and you probably won't be playing too many Link players...

EDIT: Grammar <.<;

works with ANY tether recovery.... and link's is the worst.... followd by toonie... but I've seen samus and ZSS do this on more than one occasion

 

[IC3R]

Against these heavyweights......you can take advantage of its hitboxes on Zelda's upper body (seems to go to her arms).

And now I bring up Zelda's arm twitch near the end of the Smash. Simple animation flaw? or something more?

 

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

Getting hit with Zelda's Dsmash is frightening so I think a tether could be an only defense? Especially when they've accumulated enough damage. I think manual is faster than c-stick though.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

And now I bring up Zelda's arm twitch near the end of the Smash. Simple animation flaw? or something more?

She twitches her arms as part of the attack animation... the hitbox just extends farther up than a lot of people give it credit for.... but, no, her amrs are NOT a separate hitbox... the only two hitboxes are the two halves of the kick

Getting hit with Zelda's Dsmash is frightening so I think a tether could be an only defense? Especially when they've accumulated enough damage. I think manual is faster than c-stick though.

manual and c-stick are equal speeds... if anything, c-stick would appear faster becuase it's a single input rather than the two commands for a manual Dsmash... that is, unless you have an unresponsive c-stick

 

[sniperworm]

I missed U-air so I'll be adding a little on that first. I really like using it if I can force my opponent to land on a platform (and I'm underneath it). It seems to linger for a really, really short amount of time, so I use it to hit them as they air dodge into the platform (and before they can block).

As for Dsmash, I love that move. I use it a lot against faster characters. One of the few things you can do to protect yourself against fast characters. Like it was stated earlier though, power shields make it's lag quite noticeable and not particularly safe.

DI'ing down into the stage and teching isn't a viable strategy of surviving the Zelda's Dsmash IMO. If Dsmashed near the edge of the stage, you won't have time for your character to bounce off of the ground (therefore you'll just screw yourself over by DI'ing down). If Dsmashed across the stage, you could DI into the stage and tech, but unless you're at an obscenely high percentage, you probably could've survived the Dsmash by DI'ing correctly anyway (since Dsmash only has decent knockback). So yeah, unless you have a decent amount of stage between yourself and the edge and the Dsmash will somehow still kill you, I wouldn't DI down and try to tech (the tethers are a different story though, it may be worthwhile because it might be possible to successfully do it closer to the edge of the stage).

 

[Oh Snap]

Another late update, but the 3rd move is up. U-tilt. Knock yourselves out xD

 

[GodAtHand]

I have to admit that I don't use this move much. The only time I use it consistently is when I have Dtilt'd someone into the air because I know it will hit and has a good chance to k.o...

I am excited to hear how everyone uses it in creative ways. ^_^

 

[Oh Snap]

I don't think many ppl use this move either T_T

I think it's a decent move (kinda), but her smashes outshine this move so I guess not a lot of ppl use it.

EDIT: at 1:04 Zelda uses utilt to punish Snake's roll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk6nd2QXFZE&feature=related

lmao.

 

[Lingy]

It's so underestimated It catches your opponent off guard a lot, so learning to sneak it in here and there is useful.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

up-tilt is a great move when it hits it kills at low dmg, and most people don't see it coming and it can hit people behind you as well. it is not the easiest move to hit with but is worth trowing out there once in a while because it is such a strong killer. also at low dmg you can use a f-tilt to a up-smash or up-tilt combo. and i think someone already said you can hit with this move after a d-tilt when your opponent bounces up. i really like this move and since zelda it not a very used character and this is not a very used move it could surprise people with its strenght and and decent range

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I LOOOOOOOOVE this attack... it has ridiculously high kill power for a tilt and a LOT of priority.

also... it's rarely used so it's normally fresh, it has good range, lots of active hitbox time, a lot of people seem to forget about it... and..... IT'S SO PURDY!!!!!

it can punish poorly placed/timed dodges and rolls.... but the BEST way to land it is to fire off a din's after somone recovering from high... if they airdodge the din's, which they mostly do based on reflexs... assuming you spaced and timed everything right, which is not too hard, they should come out of their airdodge RIGHT into your waiting utilt... which will likely kill by 100%

 

[Silent_Rain]

dude I love this move. It is one of my favorite moves. Before I knew how attacks were referred to, like f-smash, or down-tilt, I would call this attack the "purrdy attack" back in the Melee days. And yes this move is amazing, I've killed some opponents who were a little below 90%. It has higher knockback, I think, compared to her up-smash. I love doing the down-tilt to up-tilt finish since I usually use her up-smash to rank damage. It's a nice surprise. :3

Using this move and getting a kill with it, is one of the more "beautiful" ways to get a KO with Zelda.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

dude I love this move. It is one of my favorite moves. Before I knew how attacks were referred to, like f-smash, or down-tilt, I would call this attack the "purrdy attack" back in the Melee days. And yes this move is amazing, I've killed some opponents who were a little below 90%. It has higher knockback, I think, compared to her up-smash. I love doing the down-tilt to up-tilt finish since I usually use her up-smash to rank damage. It's a nice surprise. :3

Using this move and getting a kill with it, is one of the more "beautiful" ways to get a KO with Zelda.

it does have higher knockback... and it is SO DANG PURDY.... and it lasts so long that if it's dodged instead of shielded, it may still hit,

 

[-Mars-]

Since nair autocancels, I like to use this move immediately once I hit the ground. This is one of my few approaches with Zelda. I'll nair as I a approach and land just a little in front of them, most opponents don't want to be in front or above Zelda so their natural reaction is to either retreat(in which case you have nothing to worry about), or they will roll behind you. Since the nair autocancels the utilt comes out pretty fast and it punishes hard. I thought this was a pretty neat way on how to land it.........anyone else have any other ideas?

 

[Airgemini]

I hardly use this move as well, however its kill power is much greater than an uncharged Usmash if its not decayed.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I struggle to find the appropriate time to use this move.

My best so far is Fast-fall air-dodge into an opponents long attack, and use U-tilt as soon as you land. If you timed it right, you should do it as they recoil from their attack.

 

[Oh Snap]

Those are some good ideas to use Utilt.

Usually I just use it randomly or after I use a ftilt at low %s. But that rarely happens cuz I never use ftilt xD Also, I find myself just trading hits with my opponent when I use utilt.

I'll have to try out the ideas you guys gave me next time I have a match.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm not lying when I say MOST of my Utilt connections come from that din's fire trick.... try it any of you who are having trouble geting a good utilt off.


just any time they are recovering towards the stage (and, by association, Zelda) from up high... start Din's sniping... they should just airdodge to avoid.... once they get close enough that you can't get another din's out after they airdodge... just utilt.... they should be unable to do anything if they fell into it... they cant dodge or attack in time.

 

[Villi]

Sonic, I've seen many Zeldas do the same thing with usmash. Utilt is definitely a good mix-up.

You can also chase people on the ground with a shield-dashed utilt instead of a hyphen smash. Usually I end up trading getting a kill for being hit with a d-air. I could imagine it being timed to punish an air dodge, but it's probably harder than it sounds.

It's a good roll punisher cause the hit-box seems to last a while.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Sonic, I've seen many Zeldas do the same thing with usmash. Utilt is definitely a good mix-up.

Use Usmash to rack up damage... Utilt once in KO range

 

[-Mars-]

Ya usmash is too good of a damage racker to not use it whenever you can and with it's priority it makes Zelda feared by a lot of characters. Does anyone know how utilt's priority is? I'm sure it's decent but if it's really good, I might start throwing it out more often. I've really gotta start killing more with this because my usmash is usually so decayed I only kill with my lightning kicks and those are hard to land on a consistent basis.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Ya usmash is too good of a damage racker to not use it whenever you can and with it's priority it makes Zelda feared by a lot of characters. Does anyone know how utilt's priority is? I'm sure it's decent but if it's really good, I might start throwing it out more often. I've really gotta start killing more with this because my usmash is usually so decayed I only kill with my lightning kicks and those are hard to land on a consistent basis.

I'm pretty sure it has great priority... at least I know it hits like a tonne of bricks.

 

[RedSnowman]

I'm pretty sure it's priority is lower than Zelda's Usmash. Between all her other KO moves from her uair, fair and bair, not to mention her Dsmash... I normally don't mind her Usmash decaying. I'd rather be safer by Usmashing then trying to Utilt and geting beat. I use her Ftilt and Dtilt way more than her Utilt and I'm okay with that.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

it might not have usmash's priority... but it's priority is still good... I know that much.

 

[Oh Snap]

Utilt>Ftilt for me.

I usually trade hits w/ my opponent with Utilt when they're coming fromt the air...which usually isn't a bad thing if I can score a KO.

 

[ShadowCosmos]

I find that since it kills at percents around 100% and it lasts longer than her upsmash (and I think it has a wider horizontal hitbox) that it's really useful against opponents that try to dodge a lot. It can still get people who are spot-dodging a lot (though not as effectively as the Up-smash) but it does punish well against people who try to roll behind you, or roll around your attack, cuz I think it last longer than their dodge animation (or atleast it's close).

I use it as a finisher as opposed to Upsmashing, since I rack up a lot of my damage using that (and din's as well)

 

[-Mars-]

Fsmash, dsmash, and usmash are my main damage rackers. It's kinda weird with Zelda because usually most characters use aerials and specials to rack up damge and then finish with a smash, in Zelda's case it's pretty much the opposite. Dins isn't really going to hit a lot unless your opponent rols and you predict the roll. It's nice to harass their recovery with dins and to force approaches, but most above average players know better against it.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Fsmash, dsmash, and usmash are my main damage rackers. It's kinda weird with Zelda because usually most characters use aerials and specials to rack up damge and then finish with a smash, in Zelda's case it's pretty much the opposite. Dins isn't really going to hit a lot unless your opponent rols and you predict the roll. It's nice to harass their recovery with dins and to force approaches, but most above average players know better against it.

Dsmash for damage racking? if they are close why don't you try using Nayru's? It's just as good a GTFO move and Dsamsh is a fantastic finisher to save.

 

[-Mars-]

Dsmash for damage racking? if they are close why don't you try using Nayru's? It's just as good a GTFO move and Dsamsh is a fantastic finisher to save.

I just personally feel that dsmash is a lot safer, i'd rather whiff on a dsmash then whiff on Naryus. Granted I love Naryus and I do use it for certain purposes.......just not for damage racking. As for saving dsmash, i'm not using it so often that it won't kill, I mix up my attacking so it's usually not much of a problem. Fsmash and Usmash are usually the ones that are severely diminished.

 

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

Dsmashin' is usually a safety move or a fnisher for me. And its quite comical too. Usmashin' is often decayed but really used to stop things and so is Side smashin'. Utilt is magical, similar to a disney movie in its beauty and like a nightmare in pain when it comes to power.

 

[Oh Snap]

I use Dsmash to rack damage too. Besides, doesn't NL has 11 frames of startup? Dsmash only has 4 startup frames.

 

[Brinzy]

NL also has invincibility frames starting on... frame 4?

 

[Oh Snap]

But that gives your opponent time to shield.

I use NL to punish rolls, but I feel dsmash is more useful if my opponent is in front of me.

 

[M@v]

Best reason to use utilt in my opinion is to keep upsmash from degenerating too much. Its basically a slightly crappier upsmash. Still strong, but not as good.

 

[RedSnowman]

I also use dsmash as a damage rack and a Ko move. You just need to get them to higher percents to ko with it that's all haha

 

[Natural High]

I've always viewed U-tilt to be a very dangerous move to use unless my opponent is above me. (can't seem to hit when they're in front of me ) I guess I just haven't been using it confidently...

I wish you could U-tilt while running...

 

[Lingy]

I've always viewed U-tilt to be a very dangerous move to use unless my opponent is above me. (can't seem to hit when they're in front of me ) I guess I just haven't been using it confidently...

I wish you could U-tilt while running...

Imagine Ike's utilt if he could use it while running...

It's not a hard move to incorporate, people just think it is (:

 

[Natural High]

Imagine Ike's utilt if he could use it while running...

It's not a hard move to incorporate, people just think it is (:

Yes it would be beautiful (Ike main :3 )

Alright! I'm dedicating tonight's matches to utilizing U-tilt more! >=(

 

[Oh Snap]

I just starting using U-tilt in matches and it's turning out great, but honestly only use it when you're confident that your gonna score a KO.

 

[Oh Snap]

Week 4: N-air. Another move that I think is underrated ;3