Ghnaschnakoff
Smash Journeyman
I forget what the argument was originally now.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
[WA] Perth Smash Thread
- Thread starter Vlade
- Start date
tedeth
Smash Master
You idiot Overswarm, they started talking about Lain so I posted the pic of me and Luke with him because he's a mad dude. As if I would seriously consider it a valid argument about something. Pull your head out of your ***.
True Romance
Smash Ace
Aren't all arguments in the Perth thread about how bad Alzi is at life?
...
Or was this one different? I'm getting a different vibe from it. Help me out guys.
...
Or was this one different? I'm getting a different vibe from it. Help me out guys.
Corpsecreate
Smash Lord
Btw, $3.99 for Marinated **** is a good deal!
True Romance
Smash Ace
BS, you dish it out for free.
Bsrk_
Smash Ace
We have a tendency to attract the attention of 'high profile' members in this thread *cough*_ Look i agree with Summoners proposal of a common TO list being used nation wide (AU)_ The problem is that the trend in the Perth thread is for everyone to have a blue TO name_ Hence i have revoked my TO duties and responsibilities and merely played observer to this_
I can understand wanting to introduce more stages_ I will clarify this by having been an advocate of Norfair and a current advocate in introducing the use of 7 - 9 starter stages to create starter diversity_ Overall i think the introduction of starter stages has proven successful_ Players are learning how to stage strike and it has reinforced learning your stages and CPs which i deem as player growth and an overall improvement_
In regards to introducing previously banned stages_ I'll focus on Green Greens in this aspect_ Blocks drop from the sky_ Sure that's obvious 'so what?' you say_ Well you can avoid them by staying in the centre but that may leave you with limited options and/or much more vulnerable if against CG characters_ Blocks still become walls and walls still get abused_ Unlike say Delfino, which has a transformation that includes a wall, it is so separated and easy to camp out that generally it is the main part of the stage which is purely camp and wait for the next transformation_? 'why?' i hear you ask_? Well because it has a wall and there are proven facts of how well walls can be abused_ If i need to explain what these are i suggest you should begin research yourself as it is an essential part of knowledge you should have acquired by now_
Back to Green Greens_ These blocks push you down or possibly under the stage into a very vulnerable position_ "just stay away from them' i hear yo say_ Well that's easy to say that but the reality is your opponent and you will constantly be in a push/pull type of struggle_ A general match between equally skilled players should consist of flow changing between both players at a constant pace_ This means that more often than not, there will be constant movement and attacking/defending taking place_ This action could revolve in being pushed back into the blocks and accidentally being pushed under or trapped by a block_ 'That's not fair" you say_ No it's not because you were defending/attacking and a random element (yes it is random you have no control over which block appears and when, even if you count i can guarantee you will lose count when concentrating on the match at hand) caused you to be in a disadvantageous position_
Now random elements can be a major factor in stage viability_ As mentioned previously_ Examples of such are the cars on Port Town_ They are 'random' as they are a damage inflicting element that cannot be controlled which in reality is more of an obstruction than a random element but let's continue_ These cars can KO you at low % and regardless of what people may say, there will be positions when you must touch the ground at a time which could be fatal to you_ This element may be the difference between keeping or losing a stock which wasn't lost to your opponent rather to the stage_ 'But it was your fault and your opponents choices which lost you that life' you may argue_ Sure that can be a valid point, but the reality is if the cars hadn't been there your life is much more in your own hands rather then at the hands of the stages random elements_ Now back to Green Greens_
Bomb blocks cause damage, apples are an item and blocks are obstructions_ All fit under the requirements i have explained previously as a 'random' stage element_ Blocks can actively obstruct a player be it from an attack or during 'free' movement_ Bomb blocks are the stage inflicting damage upon you, sometimes resulting in the killing blow_ The problem is that the bomb blocks can be abused by players by forcing others into them or even by having them spawned upon you_ How many seconds does it take for a spawned block to land_? I do not know but from simple viewing i can assume it's only a matter of seconds_ 'Seconds that's plenty of time'_ Is it_? If you take into consideration the other possible scenarios that could be taking place at the time of a spawn, chances are seconds are too short regardless of your reaction time_
Let's compare this with Norfair_ As Mic kindly pointed out, the lava spurts/flares/whatever take approximately 2 seconds of warning before activating_ 2 seconds is not much time and a few scenarios could be taking place at the time of the 'warning'_ You may be attacking/defending in which case you are left open and vulnerable to the lava after it's warning period_ You may be forced to airdodge or take an attack which may send you into the lava, or alternatively dodge an attack into lava_ Vice versa, you may be doing an attack which leaves you vulnerable to the lava regardless of the 2 second warning you are given_ What stops your opponent from grabbing you and throwing you into the lava if you are both close by_? 'Don't get grabbed' you say_ Well this is fine and a good point although once again it may not always be a viable option if you are avoiding the lava and instead land into a grab whilst in your vulnerable stages of defense/offense_
Now again this is a random element that greatly increases your % or possibly KO you which is uncontrollable and has a chance to appear between the other 2 phases of Norfair_ Is it fair that whilst trying so hard to make a comeback that an airdodge is punished not by your opponent but by a stage because you were unable to do anything else whilst it warned you for a whole enormous 2 seconds_? I doubt it_ 'your opponent played the stage well'_ Maybe, but they shouldn't be working on the stage to kill you, they should be focusing on you to kill you_ Ideally 2 opponents should be focused on each other without obstruction from the stage or other elements that are out of both players control_ This is the ideal environment that should be looked at when deciding a stages viability for competitive play_ Obviously you are also looking at keeping the community interesting to both players and observers, so this second factor comes into play without sacrificing the first statement_
So let's look at it then_ Competitive play that's still enjoyable, fun and interesting to view_? How can it exist_?! Well it can_ There can be a harmony found but it needs to be a communal decision that sticks throughout the entire community during tournament play_ Green Greens has too many 'random' elements that deem it a hazard to effective competitive play_ You are not just watching your opponent, but the blocks, the bombs and now the apples too_ 3 elements alongside your general observation of your opponents behaviour/patterns_ These elements can be abused (ie walls, obstructions) and will be abused in tournament play as the mentallity of 'play to win' comes in_
Overswarm i understand your argument but in reallity, and i mean this as no offence to the Perth scene, but many of our players either
a) do not fully understand the mechanics
b) understand how stages work
c) comprehend the full extent of characters and lastly
d) abuse these aspects enough
Although i do not advocate abusing characters aspects alongside stages, the truth is that people out there will 'to win'_ The Perth scene is fairly placid and friendly in general and few of us seem to recognise the serious threats of certain character and stage combinations_
It is fine to look at expanding the stage list in regards to overall competitiveness and exploration of stage viability, but you need to take into account who these stages benefit_ If they benefit more high tier characters and gimp more low tier then you have effectively created a larger gap in the viable selection for players as more viable CPs will be available to characters who did not need them initially_ The Perth scene is not volatile or large enough to contain players who are willing or skilled enough to take those extremes and prove why stages should be banned_ Due to this factor, the proposed stages may not seem initially 'broken' or bannable because players here will not be pushing to prove it otherwise_
Sorry if i offended anyone but this is purely my opinion and i more than acknowledge the right to express your opinions and provide feedback and/or evidence to back them up_ I disagree with the fact that some people are taking this personal and striking blows purely on a personal level_ This is not what our scene is about guys so keep it friendly and proactive discussion wise_ Blatant attacks towards people shouldn't be seen as necessary regardless of how much you disagree with a persons opinions_ I will agree that certain people are stubborn and/or unable to see the validity of certain opinions but again keep it to discussion and not abuse_
EDIT: Barrel full of posts whilst typing this_ Fail_
I can understand wanting to introduce more stages_ I will clarify this by having been an advocate of Norfair and a current advocate in introducing the use of 7 - 9 starter stages to create starter diversity_ Overall i think the introduction of starter stages has proven successful_ Players are learning how to stage strike and it has reinforced learning your stages and CPs which i deem as player growth and an overall improvement_
In regards to introducing previously banned stages_ I'll focus on Green Greens in this aspect_ Blocks drop from the sky_ Sure that's obvious 'so what?' you say_ Well you can avoid them by staying in the centre but that may leave you with limited options and/or much more vulnerable if against CG characters_ Blocks still become walls and walls still get abused_ Unlike say Delfino, which has a transformation that includes a wall, it is so separated and easy to camp out that generally it is the main part of the stage which is purely camp and wait for the next transformation_? 'why?' i hear you ask_? Well because it has a wall and there are proven facts of how well walls can be abused_ If i need to explain what these are i suggest you should begin research yourself as it is an essential part of knowledge you should have acquired by now_
Back to Green Greens_ These blocks push you down or possibly under the stage into a very vulnerable position_ "just stay away from them' i hear yo say_ Well that's easy to say that but the reality is your opponent and you will constantly be in a push/pull type of struggle_ A general match between equally skilled players should consist of flow changing between both players at a constant pace_ This means that more often than not, there will be constant movement and attacking/defending taking place_ This action could revolve in being pushed back into the blocks and accidentally being pushed under or trapped by a block_ 'That's not fair" you say_ No it's not because you were defending/attacking and a random element (yes it is random you have no control over which block appears and when, even if you count i can guarantee you will lose count when concentrating on the match at hand) caused you to be in a disadvantageous position_
Now random elements can be a major factor in stage viability_ As mentioned previously_ Examples of such are the cars on Port Town_ They are 'random' as they are a damage inflicting element that cannot be controlled which in reality is more of an obstruction than a random element but let's continue_ These cars can KO you at low % and regardless of what people may say, there will be positions when you must touch the ground at a time which could be fatal to you_ This element may be the difference between keeping or losing a stock which wasn't lost to your opponent rather to the stage_ 'But it was your fault and your opponents choices which lost you that life' you may argue_ Sure that can be a valid point, but the reality is if the cars hadn't been there your life is much more in your own hands rather then at the hands of the stages random elements_ Now back to Green Greens_
Bomb blocks cause damage, apples are an item and blocks are obstructions_ All fit under the requirements i have explained previously as a 'random' stage element_ Blocks can actively obstruct a player be it from an attack or during 'free' movement_ Bomb blocks are the stage inflicting damage upon you, sometimes resulting in the killing blow_ The problem is that the bomb blocks can be abused by players by forcing others into them or even by having them spawned upon you_ How many seconds does it take for a spawned block to land_? I do not know but from simple viewing i can assume it's only a matter of seconds_ 'Seconds that's plenty of time'_ Is it_? If you take into consideration the other possible scenarios that could be taking place at the time of a spawn, chances are seconds are too short regardless of your reaction time_
Let's compare this with Norfair_ As Mic kindly pointed out, the lava spurts/flares/whatever take approximately 2 seconds of warning before activating_ 2 seconds is not much time and a few scenarios could be taking place at the time of the 'warning'_ You may be attacking/defending in which case you are left open and vulnerable to the lava after it's warning period_ You may be forced to airdodge or take an attack which may send you into the lava, or alternatively dodge an attack into lava_ Vice versa, you may be doing an attack which leaves you vulnerable to the lava regardless of the 2 second warning you are given_ What stops your opponent from grabbing you and throwing you into the lava if you are both close by_? 'Don't get grabbed' you say_ Well this is fine and a good point although once again it may not always be a viable option if you are avoiding the lava and instead land into a grab whilst in your vulnerable stages of defense/offense_
Now again this is a random element that greatly increases your % or possibly KO you which is uncontrollable and has a chance to appear between the other 2 phases of Norfair_ Is it fair that whilst trying so hard to make a comeback that an airdodge is punished not by your opponent but by a stage because you were unable to do anything else whilst it warned you for a whole enormous 2 seconds_? I doubt it_ 'your opponent played the stage well'_ Maybe, but they shouldn't be working on the stage to kill you, they should be focusing on you to kill you_ Ideally 2 opponents should be focused on each other without obstruction from the stage or other elements that are out of both players control_ This is the ideal environment that should be looked at when deciding a stages viability for competitive play_ Obviously you are also looking at keeping the community interesting to both players and observers, so this second factor comes into play without sacrificing the first statement_
So let's look at it then_ Competitive play that's still enjoyable, fun and interesting to view_? How can it exist_?! Well it can_ There can be a harmony found but it needs to be a communal decision that sticks throughout the entire community during tournament play_ Green Greens has too many 'random' elements that deem it a hazard to effective competitive play_ You are not just watching your opponent, but the blocks, the bombs and now the apples too_ 3 elements alongside your general observation of your opponents behaviour/patterns_ These elements can be abused (ie walls, obstructions) and will be abused in tournament play as the mentallity of 'play to win' comes in_
Overswarm i understand your argument but in reallity, and i mean this as no offence to the Perth scene, but many of our players either
a) do not fully understand the mechanics
b) understand how stages work
c) comprehend the full extent of characters and lastly
d) abuse these aspects enough
Although i do not advocate abusing characters aspects alongside stages, the truth is that people out there will 'to win'_ The Perth scene is fairly placid and friendly in general and few of us seem to recognise the serious threats of certain character and stage combinations_
It is fine to look at expanding the stage list in regards to overall competitiveness and exploration of stage viability, but you need to take into account who these stages benefit_ If they benefit more high tier characters and gimp more low tier then you have effectively created a larger gap in the viable selection for players as more viable CPs will be available to characters who did not need them initially_ The Perth scene is not volatile or large enough to contain players who are willing or skilled enough to take those extremes and prove why stages should be banned_ Due to this factor, the proposed stages may not seem initially 'broken' or bannable because players here will not be pushing to prove it otherwise_
Sorry if i offended anyone but this is purely my opinion and i more than acknowledge the right to express your opinions and provide feedback and/or evidence to back them up_ I disagree with the fact that some people are taking this personal and striking blows purely on a personal level_ This is not what our scene is about guys so keep it friendly and proactive discussion wise_ Blatant attacks towards people shouldn't be seen as necessary regardless of how much you disagree with a persons opinions_ I will agree that certain people are stubborn and/or unable to see the validity of certain opinions but again keep it to discussion and not abuse_
EDIT: Barrel full of posts whilst typing this_ Fail_
tedeth
Smash Master
I know hey. The funniest thing is that it's been reduced from $5.99.
So I can be like "I've got a special on **** and I'm serving some up just for you"
Corpsecreate
Smash Lord
Im a generous person. The normal market price though is usually a lot higher than $3.99 though I guess the currency is pretty important.
Ghnaschnakoff
Smash Journeyman
What do you think the entry fee ACTUALLY covers? Jeez.
Marinated **** aint cheap when it comes in such high quantities in Perth
Marinated **** aint cheap when it comes in such high quantities in Perth
C~Dog
Smash Champion
Ahahahahaha
Corpsecreate
Smash Lord
Bob, I bet you started typing that post up when the page # was at like 1023 lol.
tedeth
Smash Master
Yeah god **** that was a serious text wall. By the time he catches up he'll prolly be ready to start on a new one. 
Vlade
Social Outcast
So I'm not the only one who laughed :D
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
poor man, he put his heart and sole into that textwall giving us a serious arguement and is going to be ignored... 
C~Dog
Smash Champion
I really did lol, I thought it was hilarious. I love Overswarm and his wacky antics.
Bsrk_
Smash Ace
I'm used to it Luke_ It's the curse of being the oldest in the scene_ zzz
Corpsecreate
Smash Lord
The thing is your wall of text is very wrong gramatically, it doesnt have a single full stop!
Like how if I couldn't work out what was so horrible about the apples, and explained how they aren't a big deal in the slightest?
Oh no, I remember. Probably still got it actually, I don't delete PM's.
I'm not ignoring that, but when you say that I "keep saying dumb stuff" it implies more than one thing. It's like after someone throws up on a couch saying they keep throwing up on furniture, then using the example that just happened as proof for a recurring issue.
Poor Grampa bob
Trillest
Smash Ace
poor grampa bob anyways what i find most funny about overswarm are his stage lists its like april fools every time he releases one
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
exactly mic, what you said about the apples (explaining how they arnt a big deal in the slighest) is just one such example of a dumb thing you said that shows your lack of knowledge about this game
your basically handing them to me man, come on.
your basically handing them to me man, come on.
One of the biggest complaints about the stage is people camping the edges.
If they camp the edges they can be harder to approach.
The apples give whoever's in the middle an extra tool to stop camping.
The apples aren't any worse than one of Peach's turnips.
The apples can also heal a small percentage, which also discourages camping.
What of that is incorrect?
If they camp the edges they can be harder to approach.
The apples give whoever's in the middle an extra tool to stop camping.
The apples aren't any worse than one of Peach's turnips.
The apples can also heal a small percentage, which also discourages camping.
What of that is incorrect?
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
Good work Buff, now run along, the big boys are talking now.
Trillest
Smash Ace
Oh Trav lets go son, tbh as you keep saying you'd like to a adopt a similar stage lists to pete's you don't seem to defending your stage list/arguements it is just me or are you actually getting pete to fight your own battles If im wrong say so and show us a suggested stage list of what you think you would run given total freedom obviously with reasons for your stage choices :D
True Romance
Smash Ace
Sorry we don't speak that dialect here.
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
I was just playing Buff, Pretty sure I've been in the middle of this debate for a while and at this point it's like banging my head against a wall and I can't be bothered tonight. I have already said I will be using a list exactly like Pete's (though that will change depending on the exploits used Friday) and continually reduce it until no broken stages are left.
Trillest
Smash Ace
go back to port headland!
True Romance
Smash Ace
Hey Port might be a **** hole, but I'm sure our literacy rate puts that of "Buff World" to shame.
0%!
Trillest
Smash Ace
omfg i don't use correct grammar on teh interwebs cry moar
SummonerAU
Smash Lord
Bsrk_, I'm curious, why do you use underscores?
Please don't be "because they look cool"
Please don't be "because they look cool"
Pete278
Smash Lord
A national stagelist would be fairly easy to do for all the 'major' tournaments, by which I mean tournaments that aren't intended for testing, since that would blatently contradict the testing. I don't see how the blue names relate to the argument, but yes.
Of course, people learning how to strike and CP properly can only help on a national level, and I too am a proponent of the 7 starter list, so no qualms here.
Also in the centre are two platforms, which are fairly easy to remain on against everyone's favourite CG, Dedede, and inhibit his ability to infinite you quite a bit. In addition, camping the edges can be safe if done right against Dedede. Of course, its well known walls can be abused, as they can in any fighting game out there, but on Green Greens, due to its layout, most of the characters that can abuse the walls well can be prevented from doing so with the character camping or abuse of blast zones.
If its countable, then its not random. Irrelevant to whether or not you concentrate on it. If its measureable in any way, shape or form, its not random. As such, being pushed into it isn't being 'gayed' by a random element, its skill by your opponent to force you where he wants you to go. Your opponent putting you in a disadvantageous position via usage of a stage element which is measureable and/or quantifiable is skill on his behalf, not 'gayness' on behalf of the stage. Otherwise, stage spikes would be worth of a stage ban, and we'd be left with only Yoshi's Island.
There are 7 sections where the stage stops. At 2 of these parts, no cars will come through, ever. In the other remaining parts, there is a loud whooshing noise, and the cars are visible in the background before they come, making it quite possible to avoid them. In addition, since they aren't a constant tide of death that plagues the ground, its easily possible for anyone to place themselves in between the cars if they absolutely have to touch the ground. For your last point, Lylat Cruise regularly takes people's lives with its measureable tilts, and yet it hasn't been banned because of it. Halberd takes lives when people are thrown into the death beam, and its still legal.
Bomb blocks are fairly obvious and easy to avoid if you know the stage, apples spawn in the same locations, and almost all stages have an obstruction of some kind. Of these three, only the bomb blocks are random, and they're obvious enough to not be a worry. Really, I don't think forcing people into a bad part of the stage for them is a possible reason to ban the stage. A bad off-stage character, like Snake, can be forced off stage on FD. Olimar can be forced to the ledgeless side of Frigate. Its merely the point of the game, not a negative quality of Green Greens.
There's not many attacks you could be using that'd cause you to be vulnerable for the warning time of the lava spurt. Volcano Kick, Warlock Punch, maybe Falcon Punch if you start it up late, Diddy's nair, Wario's dsmash are some possible examples. The one thing these moves all have in common is that they're pretty **** terrible. Once again, your opponent utilizing the stage to defeat you (by throwing you into the lava, as your example) is proper use of the stage, rather than a negative quality as you make it out to be.
I wouldn't say -greatly- increases, as in most cases, without your opponent's help, you'll get hit once and DI out. I particularly find your 'They should be focusing on killing you' comment weird, because it seems to be you forcing your ideals on players. As used as an example before, would using the right side of Frigate to gimp an Olimar easily be a negative aspect on the player, because he used the stage to land a kill? Stages are a huge part of Brawl, as they were in previous games (maybe not so much in 64, with its one stage) and shouldn't be denied their part in the game, and in the skill of its players.
Brawl, in itself, without any impact from stages, is a campy game. To some, this is a negative quality, but to others (like me, for instance) enjoyment can be had from what you would deem a boring game because of camping. Good spacing is enjoyable for me to watch, as is a tight situation where both players are looking for a slip in the opponent's defense. It seems to me that, once again, you're forcing your opinion of entertainment on the entire scene, which is quite frankly, not what a well thought-of member of the community, like yourself, should be doing. As explained above, the 'random' (as you describe them) elements of Green Greens aren't, by default, enough to warrant a ban without testing, and if you believe them worthy, why not break it yourself? Any player who calls a stage broken then refuses to prove it is simply weakening the Perth scene.
Metaknight is already allowed to counterpick to Rainbow Ride, as is Diddy to FD. Serious characters already exist with one of their, if not the, best stage legal.
Pipes is a good example here, as its the best stage for Bowser in particular, more so than it is for any other character, and quite a good stage for Yoshi. The only high tier that its universally good for is Olimar, as Dedede can only chaingrab a small portion of the cast up the hill, and therefore isn't a good stage for him against everyone. Helping more low tiers than high tiers fits your quota here.
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
True Romance
Smash Ace
I've seen your uni assignments son, you don't use correct grammar any where
Trillest
Smash Ace
Hold up Pete did you say Diddy's nair is a bad move! wtf do you not know about sharking! what the hell man
kane srsly your ****ing out of the blue digs at me piss me off, i never go outta my way to diss you so for once in your life don't be a ******
kane srsly your ****ing out of the blue digs at me piss me off, i never go outta my way to diss you so for once in your life don't be a ******
True Romance
Smash Ace
Guys I think we need to all calm down. The trolling has to stop. We all need to be friends. And get along.
Here is an instructional video explaining how to do the above,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pQV76g2SOU&feature=related
edit - lol calm down Buff. I'm gonna grief you about your grammar for the rest of your days or till it improves. Not only does it benefit you if it improves, it benefits the rest of the community. I'm thoughtful like that. If you can't take some trolling your self, after you troll trav who trolled you who was trolled by some one else... You need a shot of concrete.
Here is an instructional video explaining how to do the above,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pQV76g2SOU&feature=related
edit - lol calm down Buff. I'm gonna grief you about your grammar for the rest of your days or till it improves. Not only does it benefit you if it improves, it benefits the rest of the community. I'm thoughtful like that. If you can't take some trolling your self, after you troll trav who trolled you who was trolled by some one else... You need a shot of concrete.
Trillest
Smash Ace
Kane it's not trolling when u do it in rl and keep it up you can join alzi in a very select group
True Romance
Smash Ace
It's difficult to troll your grammar in RL. As fortunately when you talk I can understand you, but when you type I can't.
And no I'm not planning on switching to size one font any time soon.
Yes, actually, I really do consider that unfair... The only difference in the two scenarios is that on Norfair, the stage does the combo for the opponent, whereas in your scenario the opponent has to do it for himself ---> MAJOR difference considering we are competing player vs player, and not player vs player vs stage... Are you saying that getting the kill by the stage is just as legit as getting the kill by your own skill??? Let's ask Trill - HEY TRILL!!! Did you feel better beating me when I got killed by Norfair than in our first match when you killed me by yourself???
Because the majority of the Perth scene can barely handle their main, let alone try to use a character they are unfamiliar with...
That being said, it really does depend on the mentality of the scene, and I believe at least half of us would have issues about abusing cheap tactics to win a game... Of course I know both you and Trill have no reservations in doing so after our last game of pool, but I really don't think everyone is like that... Despite being a "competitive" scene, in reality this is a hobby to a fair few of us that we do to have fun, and it will obviously become less fun if we're constantly being put up against hurr-durr 0-death...
The opponent also can't do anything if they are playing Ganondorf against MK on a large stage where MK can scrooge... Sure, Ganon player can run and catch, but in reality will never be able to catch the MK player, let alone fight him... Just because they still can control their character this doesn't mean it makes the game playable for them...
Which is why nothing will become of this tournament, or any Perth only testing - most of us aren't good enough at the game to warrant it a fair trial... Thus, the only fair trial it can ever give would be at least a national tournament, and the East have made it pretty clear they won't come to a tournament with this stage list... We're screwed if we do, we're screwed if we don't...
Okay, okay, now I'm 99% sure about it - you've done this to get everyone to quit Brawl and go to Street Fighter haven't you, Pete??? You sneaky devil, you!!!
True Romance
Smash Ace
You know the truth, now you must die!
Pete278
Smash Lord
Clearly, he knows too much about our cunning plan to convert everyone to a superior, more balanced, more fun, more tactical game.
Trillest
Smash Ace
A lot of opinion in there, also fun is subjective
Lol Jesse i was waiting till this happened i knew you would bring up the pool gawd we went over the rules it was legal OMG!