VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[DoH]

jfox is that you?

also peach destroys roy

 

[Heero Yuy]

Recently I dropped all of my secondaries so I could focus solely on improving my Peach. However, my friend's Jigglypuff is the one character I cannot beat, so I decided "screw it."

Since I'm too impatient to use Young Link (and I'd much rather use Link), I'm in between Marth and Dr. Mario. Marth because I hope I can outspace her with the long sword range, or Dr. Mario because of his high priority and pills that might just get through the Bairs. What would you go for between the two?

P.S. I keep Marth in my signature because I plan on picking him back up in the future once I win at least one tournament.

 

[Xyzz]

If I lost to a Roy I would probably try to bury the evidence. Possibly changing my gamer tag in the process :D (and shave and cut my hair, so nobody would recognize me anymore, haha)

Just kidding, no match up really is 100 - 0, so you can always lose them, although unless the Roy *severely* outplays you a few simple things to know about Roy should probably be enough to win the matchup quite handily. Judging from your feeling of playing Marth, that's probably a pretty crucial misconception... Marth has a few good ways around one of our bread and butters - CC (namely grab into devasting aerial combos, or well spaced things that you can't easily punish directly despite CCing them), and Roy pretty much struggles here. Unlike Marth he has to get up close and personal in order to hit you with the strong parts of his hitboxes, and those aren't too impressive against our CC game anyways (there's a reason why Roy's sword is often referred to as 'the noodle stick'), and well, while he has a decent grab as well, his followups consists of throwing for positional advantage instead of practically free 50%+ combos or the potential for tipped f smash setups).

 

[DoH]

If you are playing Roy like you fight Marth you are going to get ****ed. Fighting Marth is all about being inside of his range, which is where Roy's sweetspot is. Just rush him down and mow over him.

Heero, who is the puff player? Peach puff is winnable at lower levels (and at higher I'd argue as well)

 

[ShroudedOne]

On Ryobeat's post: I don't see an issue with what you posted. I think there should be an emphasis for Peach to constantly force Marth to swing, and punish those swings. Though you didn't say that explicitly, you covered it pretty well.

For grabs on Marth, I like throwing him away from center stage (much like Sheik). You can also uthrow him onto a platform, which is pretty bad for him (as long as you do it well).

Yeah, at any level that isn't pretty high (though I don't think it's that bad period), Peach can beat Puff. It's not worth picking up a secondary for.

 

[Heero Yuy]

@DoH My friend who's a Falco main has an above average Jigglypuff. His Falco is easy for me to take on, but his Puff is rather scary.

I know DoH handles the MU very well, but others like Armada hate the MU and in fact, IIRC, encouraged us in a post from a while ago to pick up a secondary just for Jiggly. It's probably the only MU I see a secondary being worth using, as I don't think the MU's for Sheik and Marth are that bad on the other hand. Sorry but I can't agree that the Puff MU is even, but at least 40:60 against Peach at its fuzziest.

Any advice against Jiggly would be appreciated so maybe I won't have to. Referring to Vanz's first post right now.

 

[Xyzz]

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...ical-discussion.242179/page-292#post-14820170
This post by ShroudedOne and the following by KK are good starters on the match up, imho. Probably easily enough to take you to the point where you'd actually need to ask rather specific questions on how to handle things.


and yeah, the match up really feels horrid. Actually the only one where I would even consider bringing out some secondary (probably my Marth) in a tourney match where I am vaguely worried about losing :D

 

[MacD]

jfox is that you?

also peach destroys roy

so i basically died of hysterical laughter

 

[ConnorTheKid]

Peach vs Roy on Mute City is such an impossible match up

I need some input. I have a tournament in one week, and I'm teaming with a Fox/Sheik main. I think he'll primarily go Fox. I feel like I'm pretty good in teams and have a pretty good understanding of where I need to be in the moment, BUT I haven't actually teamed with a Fox before (lol). Could someone give me some kind of a rundown? I play kinda aggressive in teams, but I can handle defensive pretty well too.

Also, if any of you know of some good sets with Peach/Fox I would greatly appreciate it. I don't think I will have any problem finding Peach/Sheik.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tireyrGIl64
This is a pretty old set but I think it could help some

/shamelessplug

 

[Get Low]

If I lost to a Roy I would probably try to bury the evidence. Possibly changing my gamer tag in the process :D (and shave and cut my hair, so nobody would recognize me anymore, haha)

Just kidding, no match up really is 100 - 0, so you can always lose them, although unless the Roy *severely* outplays you a few simple things to know about Roy should probably be enough to win the matchup quite handily. Judging from your feeling of playing Marth, that's probably a pretty crucial misconception... Marth has a few good ways around one of our bread and butters - CC (namely grab into devasting aerial combos, or well spaced things that you can't easily punish directly despite CCing them), and Roy pretty much struggles here. Unlike Marth he has to get up close and personal in order to hit you with the strong parts of his hitboxes, and those aren't too impressive against our CC game anyways (there's a reason why Roy's sword is often referred to as 'the noodle stick'), and well, while he has a decent grab as well, his followups consists of throwing for positional advantage instead of practically free 50%+ combos or the potential for tipped f smash setups).

I guess I'm just bad then. I tried to turnip camp most of the time to stay out of range of his sword, which is what I generally do against Marth. Clearly I need to adopt a new gameplan.

 

[Jethrotex]

Peach vs Puff is fun, YEAYUH!

 

[DoH]

@DoH My friend who's a Falco main has an above average Jigglypuff. His Falco is easy for me to take on, but his Puff is rather scary.

I know DoH handles the MU very well, but others like Armada hate the MU and in fact, IIRC, encouraged us in a post from a while ago to pick up a secondary just for Jiggly. It's probably the only MU I see a secondary being worth using, as I don't think the MU's for Sheik and Marth are that bad on the other hand. Sorry but I can't agree that the Puff MU is even, but at least 40:60 against Peach at its fuzziest.

Any advice against Jiggly would be appreciated so maybe I won't have to. Referring to Vanz's first post right now.

I think abandoning Peach at this level of smash is a bad idea. Learning how to fight puff is invaluable when it comes to spacing. Learn how to use your fsmash to beat bair, when to utilize dash attack (especially when puff is airborne), how to trap her on the ground near the edge for pressure/downsmash/roll forcing, and using your djc bair to slingshot into her range.

It's a different kind of matchup, you can't just muscle your way through. You have to straight up outplay puff because you can't gimp her.

Also if she pounds your shield, upsmash oos.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Thanks for the tips man. Though I never said I was abandoning Peach by any means, just when the going gets tough with Jiggly may I need to pull out someone else. I'll try to hold my own using just her, though.

 

[DoH]

I think if you abandon Peach vs puff you're handicapping your own Peach game. You learn a lot of valuable spacing games from being able to fight puff.

Just don't try to be Armada and out fair puff because that doesn't work.

Lots of bair

 

[Xyzz]

Just don't try to be Armada and out fair puff because that doesn't work

, unless you are Armada.

:D

 

[DoH]

That still doesn't work though

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Landon, how do I deal with sheik spamming bair? I have no clue how to get under it.

 

[DoH]

Get under her with up air

or fade in and out with float (i'm assuming she's trying to sweet spot it) and fair the tip of it with your crown.

also forward smash, per usual.

toad

powershield to nair/fair/ uair depending on the situation

run away and turnip

get on a platform and downsmash it

I feel like you have a lot of options here.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

The thing that's giving me trouble is fullhop bair and then a 2nd late bair when landing. So if I try to deal with it on reaction, I usually move in just in time to get smacked with the 2nd one. I tried uairing it but he'd fade away when he sees me jump in, so I dunno how to avoid the bad situation. If I run in and shield then I usually get dash away -> dash attacked / jabbed / grabbed / unplesant sheik things. Any light you can shed on this situation? I feel like I should have a better answer to sheik jumping in the first place.

 

[Xyzz]

That still doesn't work though

Bold statement, considering I have yet to see a Puff that defeats Armada's fair-heavy style but in turn loses to bairs by sb else

 

[DoH]

Why don't you use instafloat uair under the full hop? Or run in and sheild/spot dodge the 2nd bair, and jab/dtilt the incoming grab?

Sometimes when I want to force a hit against a grabby character, I'll run into my shield, then pretty much instantly instafloat fair and they run into it a lot of the time when they come in for a grab.

If they come in with a jab, cc down smash. Or you can run in sheild and then roll when they commit to the grab, but that doesn't open up too much offense and might get you baired.

@xyzz, if only hbox and I got recorded sometime. But for now, I'll leave you with this:

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm not sure why but that anecdotal facebook plug reminded me of this:

Maybe it's also because MacD is around idk

 

[JJTheJetPlane]

I used to play against my friend's Jigglypuff all the time and just spam turnips and bait him to approach. It is definitely a very spacing oriented matchup.

 

[Prince_Abu]

kirbykaze is the best peach vs puff

 

[AozoraX]

Hey guys! Just had a couple of tournaments and I need some help and pointers. I took a lot of stuff from what people told me and whatnot and tried to incorporate it...

But then suddenly a good player uses Fox now. ;_;

Anyway, here are the videos and if anyone could critique me, that'd be awesome.
NOTE: TURN DOWN THE VOLUME TO ALMOST MUTE BECAUSE ITS LOUD AS F

Me vs Sheik - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCp5TmZ-ffY
and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSta9nY-U5c

Me vs Dat Fox - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8LqtKkccug

All constructive help is appreciated!

 

[knightpraetor]

if fox or falco DIs behind you in the chain grab past 100 do you dash back full hop nair or just jump back and nair while hitting with the back part of the nair? i was curious what is faster. I keep dropping finishes on the chaingrab when i get past 100 and they full DI it a direction, so i'm wondering what i'm doing wrong or if i'm just slow. I assume it's dashing FH nair usually, right? or does full DI require a SH?

 

[MacD]

I'm not sure why but that anecdotal facebook plug reminded me of this:

Maybe it's also because MacD is around idk

what does this have to do with me.

OH WAIT, I GET THE JOKE NOW

..... wow KK

 

[Strong Badam]

what's this nonsense
it's like you guys are trying to... strategize...

 

[Xyzz]

Our strategy (separated between high and low level of play) will always be:
- low level play: hit them with downsmash until they die.
- high level play: hit them with fair until they die.

This is non negotiable.

@Facebook posts by Hbox: I know a certain somebody who'd call that "typical flopmerican bias", haha :D
I'd actually rather enjoy seeing some decently high level puff-peach matches, since I don't get to play that match up like ever

 

[ShroudedOne]

if fox or falco DIs behind you in the chain grab past 100 do you dash back full hop nair or just jump back and nair while hitting with the back part of the nair? i was curious what is faster. I keep dropping finishes on the chaingrab when i get past 100 and they full DI it a direction, so i'm wondering what i'm doing wrong or if i'm just slow. I assume it's dashing FH nair usually, right? or does full DI require a SH?

I have a lot of issue with this as well, following up on full DI from spacies. It doesn't quite feel like I've the time to dash > nair...I've been thinking dash > fair might substitute, but I honestly don't know. Armada seems to get his, so it's most likely a speed issue.

@Xyzz: It's too early for people to know that her fair is stupidly overpowered. Let them keep thinking downsmash is her best (and only) move.

 

[Ryobeat]

Guys, I forgot; how do you get out of waveshines across the stage?

 

[ConnorTheKid]

you smash DI away or towards them. I like to alternate between the two to mix it up. If you smash DI away from them, you'll get enough time to shield the next shine and punish. If you smash DI towards the Fox correctly, you'll go behind him after his next shine.



also: HugS is picking up Peach. can't wait to see how good or bad he is with her lololol

 

[Jethrotex]

Even if you smash di through them, they can pivot up-smash or just shine again and continue, unless they're not looking and just continue to waveshine forward in the assumption you're still there.

 

[DoH]

http://meleeitonme.tumblr.com/post/57437753306/peach-dittos

Just gonna leave this here

 

[Jethrotex]

Lol, I saw that, you do a really good job with the tumblr xD

 

[ConnorTheKid]

I'm a big fan of that Parks and Rec gif

 

[Get Low]

So ShroudedOne and I are teaming at a tournament this weekend.
We're going to be the most famous team on the Peach boards. <3

 

[DoH]

 

[Get Low]

One half of the most famous team on the Peach boards. <3

 

[ConnorTheKid]

MacD and I say hello