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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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ShroudedOne said:
You're probably going to have to camp her super hard Vman. Sorry. :(
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I don't see why he couldn't use the priority moves he has (u-tilt, uair, bair... do body shifts count as priority?) and just play a footsie game with aerials and focus on out-positioning her. I mean, yeah, Yoshi probably can't straight up beat Peach fair but between smart parries, momentum shifts, and his better speed (especially around platforms) I would bet he could play a cohesive game against it. Might not be easy, but I don't see why it isn't doable period.

Basically, smart aggression instead of just bum-rushing her...
 
V3ctorMan

V3ctorMan

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Yeah, I understand the concept, and general ideas even... This is one of those MU's I feel, very troubled... I guarantee you, I'd prolly lose to like ANY peach level, regardless of player ability, (Ok well to a certain extent) but players i'm arguably better than... could beat me in this MU... I feel I only win this MU, if i'm substantially better than my opponent ya know? It's just scary, when I make a technical error vs ANY other character... I feel I'll simply take damage.. 50+% etc.. (which isn't technically good), but Yoshi is the kind of character that must absorb damage to give damage you know (DJCC) etc.. vs Peach however... I feel a technical error, is an AUTOMATIC loss of a stock... If you can't tell.. my mistakes with yoshi (as of late) are very minimum (for the most part) but even a small tiny mistake... cost stocks...

I've prolly lost the most tourney matches/MM's vs Peach, using Yoshi... (most have the mindset) "vman just use your falco, your Falco is very good etc.. or "insert better char here" but I really have the mindset that I can pull this off, even with the best of peach players (even Armada)... I've toned my aggression down ALOT (vs peach) I'm really just needing that extra "ummph" that will get something rolling... haha idk... Peach by far, would have to be my worst MU, it's to a point I think i'd rather fight vs sheik as Yoshi then Peach...

:(

/rant

;_; Peach is mean :(

/motivation..

I WILL FIND A SOLUTION!! <3

Hopefully some of you gimme the secrets to defeating your char ^^
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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peach vs sheik is still pissing me off. THe guide says to use low bairs, but if you watch armada, what you actually see is heavy fair based play. Is armada really just perfectly timing his fairs so he doesn't ever get hit by ftilt trying to approach..or is he just camping and playing reaction-based with fair. I'm going to try to watch some matches and figure this out. I have yet to attempt defensive styles with peach because I feel like offensive styles do better when facing people who lack matchup experience because they collapse and don't have time to think about new options.
 
Xyzz

Xyzz

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john! said:
pretty sure nobody here knows anything about yoshi :awesome:

leffen is probably the only person in the world that can help you

or maybe you could get help from like... angel or someone

idk
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One of the guys I regularly play with used to exclusively main Yoshi (he did the cop out and started playing a lot of Falco... They're about equal in strength by now), and I pretty much started maining Peach after about 1 month of playing this game... So I *do* know a lot about the match up :)
Haven't played the match up in a while, I usually use my own Falco for the matchup (Peach vs Yoshi is suuuper boring to play :x), but if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them. Or I'd probably down to critique videos if you have any as well ;)

I don't really feel Peach death comboes Yoshi of a single first hit, though. I do agree the matchup is one of Yoshis worst matchups, but for different reasons (her edge guarding, you can't really get in on her if she goes campy, lack of legit kill setups on her, the stupid bull**** she gets to do on Yoshis shield).

Well, have some random thoughts about the matchup:

- Her fair: Easily the most dangerous thing for Yoshi. Few characters can deal with it all too well, but Yoshi is especially pitiful because of his poor shield. You can reliably shield through fair > dsmash on your shield if it's not pretty worn down to begin with (and get a grab afterwards), but then again Peach has no reason to dsmash after a fair on Yoshis shield in the first place.
I think one of the best things for Yoshi is to abuse the way he twists back on his fsmash in order to make her whiff if she tries to go in with the fair... It sets up a favorable position for Yoshi (at the very least you get to throw eggs at her till she regains her footing), or well, it's a decently powerful fsmash so it's pretty good at killing her :D
- bair > upair can work if she misses the DI and is a pretty good killing move.
- eggs are good. Peach is slow, so hitting her isn't that hard, and she has trouble punishing well for it too (unless she is so close she can just bair through the egg and still hit Yoshi afterwards, or is at a good spacing for dash attack). Especially when she can't respond by getting turnips well for the moment (she commited to float to early, because she expected Yoshi to go in with a attack or sth). However, if she can get turnips through eggs you need to think twice about it, because unlike you she can use a turnip very well in order to get in on her opponent.
- Peach dash attack. We love them, and will sometimes be pretty obvious about them. A great punish for Yoshi after shielding one is to just let go of shield and downsmash her.
- don't recover from below if avoidable at all. Dsmash breaks the DJ super early and the only feasibly response is wallteching and we know how helpful those are for Yoshi :D
Generally when recovering, you better have spot on DI to be as high as possible. Peach isn't too good at covering high stuff, because she is so slow at covering the vertical distance to her opponent, so you should be able to sneak past her quite a bit (I think mixing up with the egg roll can be good at times). Also at least I find it really hard to get a hitbox in the trajectory of a down b that aims for the ledge (provided it's decently high and I don't get to hit Yoshi out of the start up).
- edgeguarding her: eggs are kind of a double edged sword, she really hates to be hit out of float, but she can DI the eggs to actually gain height, so it's kind of a trade between percent and ease of follow ups that actually have killing potential. If she goes high you can try to get a up air for a pretty early kill. Peach is rather light and floaty after all, and bad at beating stuff coming from below her. Down tilt is pretty good if she goes for the edge. Fair is pretty good, because her up b isn't that good of a recovery after being hit by a meteor (it doesn't go that high... it's mainly good because of the floating business that follows it). Also carrying her down with down air is really fun :D
If she does make it to the edge remember that Peach lacks legit options to make it back from there, because of the way her DJ works. Also I don't know if this works in NTSC, but in PAL Yoshi is able to CC through her get up attack for a pretty long time and downsmash her for it :D

knightpraetor said:
peach vs sheik is still pissing me off. THe guide says to use low bairs, but if you watch armada, what you actually see is heavy fair based play. Is armada really just perfectly timing his fairs so he doesn't ever get hit by ftilt trying to approach..or is he just camping and playing reaction-based with fair. I'm going to try to watch some matches and figure this out. I have yet to attempt defensive styles with peach because I feel like offensive styles do better when facing people who lack matchup experience because they collapse and don't have time to think about new options.
Click to expand...
The guide is ooooold :D
I think what you want to use depends a bit on what you are looking for, and what your opponent is looking for. If you can't get past tilts with fair, because you can't get the spacing / timing right for beating them directly or any other reason, you should definitely stay lower to the ground and maybe use bairs. Or I feel CCing them works really nice as well :) (runup cc dsmash, new 2012 meta, you heard it here first! :p)
Also: Yes, Armada is incredibly good at timing fairs and makes them work at spots, where it's a lot easier to beat things with other stuff. Works out really well, if you can do it imho, because fair is sooo good for setting up edgeguards / tech chases.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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why does fox's up b beat turnips? dooes any attack hitbox cancel a turnip's attack? is that how it works?
 
A

Anand

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knightpraetor said:
why does fox's up b beat turnips? dooes any attack hitbox cancel a turnip's attack? is that how it works?
Click to expand...
Fun fact: stitchfaces beat Fox's up-B. I don't remember all the details and which attacks behave this way, but I think it's because the damage done by a stitchface hitbox is sufficiently high compared to a Firefox hitbox (difference of more than 7%, or something like that).

This is how all ground A attacks work; if they are within the threshold of each other, you get a clank (also, amusingly, the lag is higher for the person who used the stronger attack, if I recall correctly). I think that is also how specials work, but it might not be all specials.
 
KirbyKaze

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The jank. It blinds meeeeeee

Lol @ Vman's ego and stealth brags. I dunno why you're here anyway. Most Peaches are just gonna tell you the basics of the MU (if that) because who honestly devotes time into learning how to beat Yoshi >.>

You're probably gonna have better luck learning from Angel or something.
 
V3ctorMan

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^Hey be nice you person you..

I already have heard, Angel's other Yoshi(s) concepts... (Yoshi isn't peach, I have what 2, 3 people to ask, not 30, 40 or w/e it is) trust me the asking other Yoshi's has already been done)... I'm mainly asking on what "loopholes" should I look for in Peach's game more or less...

Noone practicing on how to beat Yoshi is EXACTLY why I need to practice on how to beat this character...

If there is something all of us Yoshi's have in common, is that we all are bad vs Peach, I'm simply trying to find a solution, the shorten/lessen, how bad I personally am vs Peach, and to perhaps pass it on to the rest of the Yoshi players...

Stealth brags? I in NO WAY, am saying my Falco could/couldn't win.. most of you have seen it, (it's style > effective, not to mention it's not good anyway).. my style of falco wouldn't work well vs Peach, or many players.. tho Falco is better than Yoshi, to me his endurance = much less.. I'd play better with Yoshi than any of my chars most likely at this point..

Simply asking for advice KK, no need to be a meanyface... and allow me to have my faith, just cuz you don't, doesn't mean I wont :(
 
ShroudedOne

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KirbyKaze said:
I don't see why he couldn't use the priority moves he has (u-tilt, uair, bair... do body shifts count as priority?) and just play a footsie game with aerials and focus on out-positioning her. I mean, yeah, Yoshi probably can't straight up beat Peach fair but between smart parries, momentum shifts, and his better speed (especially around platforms) I would bet he could play a cohesive game against it. Might not be easy, but I don't see why it isn't doable period.

Basically, smart aggression instead of just bum-rushing her...
Click to expand...
I put a lot more thought into Yoshi yesterday than I've done in my entire life, and I see your point here. He's definitely faster when it comes to platforms and on the ground.

Whether body shifts count as priority or not kind of depends on whether or not he can use that to dodge her moves, I think? Forward smash sticks out as a the big one, and he can counterattack really well with it, I'd think.

I forgot how deceptively good Yoshi's bair is. So I guess that too. I dunno. It's hard to see what he can do to her, since this MU doesn't get played ever, but between his speed advantage and his fairly good moves, I guess it's not the worst.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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if a stitch can go through fox's up+ b what else can it go through? can it go through jabs and low damage ground moves?
 
Silly Kyle

Silly Kyle

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I know the Yoshi matchup lol it's pretty ez in general for Peach, but Yoshi can do pretty decent against her. Most of you don't have the same practice I do since the two best Yoshi players live in my state. :p
 
VA

VA

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I watched Paris is Burning with my boyfriend the other day. Surely, Rosedemon, you've seen this film.
 
Rosedemon

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I remember hearing about it a few ears ago but not actually knowing the name, and then I saw the amazing video where they played footage of it to Azealia's Fierce.

But unfortunately I still have yet to sit down and watch it.

CUZ IM WATCHING SNOW WHITE AND THE HUNTSMAN HATE ME IF YOU WANT
 
MacD

MacD

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i didn't ask for the sake of getting an answer

i asked to show that idk what they are talking about (to show i'm apparently a bad gay), and so that alan and doh could post hilarious gifs/whatever to flame me
 
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