VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[DoH]

We like Yoshi's because Marth really can't get away there and he can't really outspace you like he can on Battlefield. If you don't get stuck on the platforms he has a hard time killing you, while you can kill him with a good nair/fair at 80ish if you catch him off guard. Also you can just jump to the platforms or parosol cancel up to the top one, so they kind of speed her up. If you're good vs Marth like we are it because hard for him to keep up with kill moves since he has to combo/trap you into his. Also, Marth's shield sucks, and the stage is so small once you dance smash his shield once he can't get away for enough for it to regen, so you can stalk him with float dairs. The only problems with Yoshi's is that you don't have room to run away and reset to grab a turnip, and he can get quick tipper kills if you fail at life.

 

[bladeofapollo]

while you can kill him with a good nair/fair at 80ish if you catch him off guard...

...and he can get quick tipper kills if you fail at life.

These two are contradictory statements.
Lapses in judgement happen roughly the same number of times for both players, but the pay-off is WAY better for Marth. If you catch him off guard: 80% kills. If MARTH catches you off guard: 40% kills.

 

[exarch]

Not entirely true. You only die from tipper fsmashes. He dies from nair/fair/dsmash (though the last one is a bit of a stretch.) It's more likely that you're using one of those moves when he messes up than he's using fsmash when you mess up.

All you have to do is avoid being in that arc, preferrably by being inside it. He has to avoid getting hit.

I also like Yoshi's against Marth. Killing him at 110ish every life is a beautiful thing. The platforms are spaced wonderfully for peach combos. She doesn't need to pull turnips to get inside. Peach can trap Marth on platforms herself. He's just easier to hit on that level.

Oh and if you do end up on a lower platform get off it fast before they set their spacing. You are on a timer, do it quickly. JUMP. Don't roll or spotdodge. Angle your shield down too.

I don't like FD against Marth cause it's ****ing boring and he lives till 150 with good DI which is a really hard number to get to when the best you can really do is turnip to fair or dash attack. Getting to 150 in increments of 15/20 is a lot harder than getting to 110 in increments of 15/occassional 35-45. But I don't like FD mostly because it's boring.

You live till 170 on FD but eat a lot of uair because there's no platforms to help you get to the ground. Combos end sooner on YS cause he runs out of room on the stage.

Obviously there's a give and take. The two levels are probably about the same (the matchup is relatively even anyway,) it just comes to personal preference. Personally I don't pull a lot of turnips (cause I can't nair to combo break) and think that FD is a boring level.

We can all agree that DL is the best vs marth stage, followed by FoD and BF, then YS and FD. Well we can all agree on the first one anyway.

 

[Cia]

it just comes to personal preference.

This. I prefer fighting Marth on FD because I can keep him in the air longer and I can control space like a monster there. There are no platforms ruin to my combos and give my opponent different approach angles. I also pull turnips vs Marth every chance i get.

As for YS, i hate it vs Marth. With pretty much any character. It's true that if you can hit Marth there, he'll die at lower percents, but that can be said for any char (including Peach) not only that, but it sounds like you're assuming that you're going to be trading hits with him which is NOT the case. A Marth that is about your skill level or better WILL hit you more, and like Apollo said, his pay-off is way better.

*btw, I'm not saying my way is the right way, but it works for me.

 

[DoH]

If you're doing your job properly you're not getting tippered. Also a lot of Marths are cocky on yoshi's because they think the win is free

 

[Teczer0]

As a marth player.... I prefer it on FD and not YS. I like to be able to keep a large amount of space between me and the peach at any given moment.

... Just throwin it out there. I really dunno how to fight marth with peach at all though =/

 

[Silly Kyle]

I love FD versus Marth. Turnips all day!! And I love the way Armada fights on that stage too <3

 

[Jartravious]

So its 1:40 AM and I'm lying in bed and I think, Once you cancel a float do you automatically fast fall or do you need to hit the stick down after the float is canceled? Can any falling animation be effected by fast falling?

Also what do you guys think of Down-throw and Back-throw?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like Peach but she's horrible.

 

[Silly Kyle]

Peach is not horrible!! She is God Tier <3

 

[ConnorTheKid]

the AZ heat makes you crazy I guess

 

[exarch]

*watches Vanz vs Hbox*

Dear peaches:

please stop floating so often against puff.
when you do that you lock your position horizontally on the stage and she can jump to space a bair.
it's not like she's gonna punish you hard if you lcancel an aerial on her shield instead of FCing it.

Also DI jiggs' utilt over her head. (Towards her.) She can't follow that up.

Good try though Vanz

 

[TheGeneral]

I like Peach but she's horrible.

You sound like you've finally become a peach main, KK. Good ****.

Jatravious, you have to press down, to fast fall the (whatever aerial) when you float cancel or you'll probably get shield grabbed. To get the timing down practice on an inivincible opponent. I've found that if you press down after you see the green flash when you hit someone with a fc'd aerial, that the timing usually works out. Hope that helps

edit: exarch, it sounds to me like you di jigg's up-tilt as you would fox's? Is that what you mean?.

also, speaking of di, I find that the best way to di marth's (stupidly far reaching) dash attack is toward him. The attack seems to want to send you behind him anyway. What does everyone else do?

 

[KirbyKaze]

What? No. To hell with this character.

I main Sheik.

If I'm going to play one of the humanoid women in this game, I'm going to pick the one that sucks the least.

 

[bladeofapollo]

KirbyKaze just likes to help us explore Peach's options. It's nice to have insight from players of other characters.

Am I the only one who thinks Peach is REALLY good? I'm often amazed by the stuff she can pull. Spectacular recovery; strong, 3-frame aerial; turnips designed for her (float and good throw animation); crazy strong Dsmash. I see her flaws, but Peach mains seem to hate on her.

 

[DoH]

It's just ****ing hard playing a character who is not as good as the ones above her (and who are most common at tournaments) and then to have crowds tell you she takes no skill to play and have everyone cheer against you because Peach is gay.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

go pick up a not "gay" character then. like Fox or something easy

 

[Jartravious]

KirbyKaze just likes to help us explore Peach's options. It's nice to have insight from players of other characters.

Am I the only one who thinks Peach is REALLY good? I'm often amazed by the stuff she can pull. Spectacular recovery; strong, 3-frame aerial; turnips designed for her (float and good throw animation); crazy strong Dsmash. I see her flaws, but Peach mains seem to hate on her.

Peach is good. Everyone is just more observant of their own character's weaknesses

 

[ConnorTheKid]

Peach is good.

^^^truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox_GsAiiLO8

 

[TheGeneral]

haha, that was awesome! And in case anyone didn't realize this from me still posting on the peach forms and generally just still using peach, I don't actually think she's a bad character. It's just the cool thing to do to make fun of her. My philosophy on smash is that it's a silly game and the more dumb **** you can do the better. Hence why I'll never leave peach except maybe for jiggly puff some day, lol.

 

[bladeofapollo]

and then to have crowds tell you she takes no skill to play and have everyone cheer against you because Peach is gay.

Alright, I can dig that. Every time I catch someone CC'ing a Dsmash people are like "lol Peach is ez-mode." Nobody seems to think that when Fox gets a drill-shine-Usmash on me at 30% or 300%

 

[_lemons]

I try not to complain about Peach because I don't want to be associated with all the Falcon players that ***** and moan about how bad Falcon is.

but peech sux, trufax

 

[MacD]

^^^truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox_GsAiiLO8

this is why ftilt is a good move!!!!

and it's what we do, complain how she sucks, then go beat a fox and everyone is like yawn and you're like

or like when you are the only person to consistently beat (shy of mango) this **** IC's main in your region and everyone is like lolz peach

EDIT: i just can't stop watching that vid, it's too funny

EDIT2: wtf is up with "smash bash" under people's names and why is is bouncing around?

 

[exarch]

Cause it's a party!!!
http://www.smashboards.com/announcement.php?f=245&a=240
Join the user group while you still can. There's also a forum for today too.

And yea, I meant like the way Marth's utilt can be DIed (so he has to turn around to utilt you again >_>) Same angle on Jiggs utilt, she won't rest you afterward... but she will fair combo you usually.

I'm not sure how bad peach is and how good the other characters are. I'm becoming one of those people who is surprised at how balanced this game is.

 

[DoH]

cuz we're putting our hands up, they're playing our song, the butterflies fly away...

I think the problem is that Peach is just as balanced as everyone above her, it's just that her weaknesses (speed, weight) aren't as controllable as other characters. You can control (to a degree) if Fox or Falcon are going off the stage so their recovery can't be exploited. You can't make this ***** move much faster.

 

[shounenkel]

I Think sheik is the best in the game, Puff players Gay ones like Hbox makes me think about that though... I'm only good with peach, i somewhat played Fox but only for his tech skills thats about it, i hate missing tech skills with him you'll die eveytime you miss something thats why i don't play fox anymore P.s i don't need him anymore, Hes like Candy have him an forget about it =D... Peach is fun to play, don't ***** about it or just don't play with her i guess

 

[Cia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox_GsAiiLO8

jesus christ. I wish I was in front of my desk so I could slam my face on it.

 

[DoH]

I did that to jman a lot. He'd run in, I'd ftilt into downsmash off the edge

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach isn't awful I guess but she's way too hard for me to play.

 

[thesage]

Peach is so hard to play in friendlies. You have to think too much.

 

[Quaz]

^^^truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox_GsAiiLO8

thats ridiculous O_O. I guess I'm gonna ftilt more now.

btw I can't beat sheik at all =( she just jumps around and spaces fairs all day and whenever I try to punish it with anything she dodges and gets right back at me with grabs. Also no matter how hard I try I can never hit her with dtilt. How the hell do you get that move to work?

 

[thesage]

Dtilt is hard. Just learn to space and time it right.

IDK how to do that lol.

 

[Armada]

Quaz: D-tilt back to D-tilt is really good against Sheik.
Just practice the spacing =).

Ask Amsah what he think about Peachs D-tilt

 

[TheGeneral]

Armada, what do you like to edge guard fox/falco with more: d-air or b-air?

I'm starting to like d-air more myself.

 

[bladeofapollo]

When Sheik is on the edge: Fsmash is good against her ledge-hopped aerials. Dsmash is good against waveland->grab. Retreat in other cases.
Basically a lot of spacing. Sheik has an eaiser time grabbing than Peach, so always be weary of that. Peach can combo Sheik fairly well w/ Uair.
Sheik's Bair outspaces everything. Peach's dash attack at least trades w/ ever aerial (I think).
Else: consult this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV3MvT6rfJc

I knew I'd posted some tips earlier.

Some high-level matches to observe:

Amsah vs Armada (Pound*4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvN-TnOGfOc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvDfbFVgGOo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFum9MQXVTM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezcc8Yi2WuQ

KirbyKaze vs Vwins (Starfurry 5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LycGoq5_cIs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoOHIjwq6IA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X5DnwJ89us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPgL8skpvZc

Amsah vs Armada (Berlin Calling)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvNbEVAU_Eo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5_ZOKKSJcY

 

[VA]

Armada, what do you like to edge guard fox/falco with more: d-air or b-air?

I'm starting to like d-air more myself.

Turnips .

 

[MacD]

Armada, what do you like to edge guard fox/falco with more: d-air or b-air?

I'm starting to like d-air more myself.

the problem is, edge guards spacies is all situational, depending on where you are, where they are, how much time you have etc, when i do it, i kinda just go with whatever i feel is going to work at the moment

and falco is a lot easier cause you hit him like twice he's dead, whereas fox can take like 10 years

 

[Rosedemon]

THATS ME IN MACDS SIG!

****.

 

[VA]

Either you want a turnip in your hand and to chase them down with it. If they're able to recover from higher than your full jump height that's what you want to do. If not you can face backwards and full jump covers the side B and pressures them into up B. Up B below the stage is pretty easy.

I dunno, I have a view of the way to cover stuff. The one that is annoying is when a fox Up Bs 45 degrees from the edge. I never get to the edge fast enough...

Maybe I'm dumb. I dunno I suck as peach.

 

[TheGeneral]

and falco is a lot easier cause you hit him like twice he's dead, whereas fox can take like 10 years

LMAO, so true. Yeah, I guess you guys are right, but d-air is so dumb on spacies up b. It's like the only move that trades in my favor every time. As in even if I get burned as I'm dairing, their fat ***** drop like a foot in the air and if I keep doing it, soon they're below the stage. I dunno, I love out mashing spacie's when they're trying to recover like mad.

But you guys are right, edge guarding is super situational. I think I edge guard every person I play differently b/c everyone has their own way of getting back onto the stage.

@ VA - You're right, it's always best to lead any edge guarding attempt with a turnip. At least if you have the time to pull one. I personally just like to float off the stage and edge guard someone in their face. I'm just a jerk like that.