VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[crismas]

Peach does get boring ._. I keep slowly trying to learn other characters over time though but mostly play them in friendlies only.

 

[VA]

What I find silly was that me doh and macd played peach in such disgustingly similar ways. I was like, this is how you play peach. And it makes me bored and mad. I know at least that my fox is unique and fun. And I realised from apex that's what I really care about.

 

[MacD]

i enjoy her against good people

but when i'm not challenged i just don't care and start using an alt, which in my case is sheik since who the hell would want to play my IC's and not like i have any tech skill to use anyone else

i mean there is only so much fun to be had out of dsmash > dash attack > edge guard on not so great people

i watched me vs dikonos, man i really have a sheilding problem, and i like to try to l cancel then end up light shielding and screwing up, it makes me feel like i suck

 

[VA]

Yeah I had the same thing with float cancels to Z grab. Made me so mad. You need to work on fluidity and tech skill macd. You could be hella better with some good movement and stuff. Start by wavedashing sometimes

I know what you mean against good people. I just feel so cramped and limited with her though. I think I just don't know her well enough as a character.

 

[MacD]

hey now, i try to wavedash like at least twice a match

actually, my whole plan this summer was to get technical, but then idk, life happened and i traveled for stuff and it never happened, gotta start working on that

the only time i feel like she is complete garbage is against m2k's marth on FD

 

[VA]

Despite not playing that match up, I feel like that all the time. I just do the dumbest baits. Like float near the ground-ish and wait for fox to try shffl nair me and fair him. I find it so dull.

 

[MacD]

idk, i have fun chasing everyone down with her, i like being super aggressive

though i sometimes wonder what if i could actually play like fox/falco and be aggressive, it does sound fun and appealing

so maybe you should try being stupid rush down, or play with a character you feel you like more

though you must have picked peach in the beginning for some reason, maybe whatever that reason was doesn't exist anymore

 

[VA]

I've always wanted to main fox and marth. I've just had the worst topurnament mindset since i begun playing. It really affected me being alone at apex. Like I had no friends around me to talk about how I was playing or anything. It used to completely destroy my fox tech skill in tournament. I think I've got consistent enough to deal with it in terms of tech skill now though....I think I'm just going to go with what I enjoy instead of what brigns me the best results from now on.

 

[Rosedemon]

Being a Marth main would ****.

 

[thesage]

I wanted to play Pikachu before axe came along actually.

 

[VA]

suure. should have thought of that before axe came along. you are far too late now.

 

[john!]

used to main falco but then realized i didn't have the tech skill but i play him in friendlies all the time. sometimes i get off and consider maining him, but then i play a good player and get steamrolled lol... but my tech skill is slowly getting better, so maybe someday...

 

[crismas]

suure. should have thought of that before axe came along. you are far too late now.

LMAOOOO keepin' it real.

 

[thesage]

Axe's performance convinced me to main him, but before i was thinking of 2nd'ing him and maining Ness.

 

[Cia]

Why is everyone quitting Peach? I'm considering it because I'm lazy and don't want to practice to be good with her, not because i think she's bad (which i don't) Armada seems to be mercilessly ****** everyone with her. Follow is example.

btw, even if i don't technically 'main' Peach, I'll always have one handy. How else will I do Peach/Ganon or Double Peach?

 

[Silly Kyle]

I'm so glad I have the privilege to play Axe here in Arizona!!

It was awesome watching him fight Armada. I hope him fighting me gave him some Peach practice haha. I also hope to learn from how Armada fought Axe so I can beat him in tournament!! (I was so close!! :o)

He is amazing for getting 5th!! <3

 

[TunaCasserole]

Peach is terrible...besides, despite what you all may think/how much you train with your "mains", everyone's a fox main anyway. So don't worry too much about deciding whether or not you guys want to keep peach as your mains....play her when she's fun, and when she gets dull switch back to your real main, fox :D

@Vanz: Chin$...you did awesome at Apex. Now you gotta come down to Max's and give me pointers on my peach.

@VA; MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENG how did it feel getting to play high-tier players other than Edwin, fuzzy and prof

 

[The Irish Mafia]

i practically quit peach in friendlies at apex, more or less went all fox because as fun as spacing fairs is i don't want to constantly think in order to win, every so often i enjoy indulging myself with a nair shine spam

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm quitting peach cause I wanna play a better character, you know like Mr. Game and Watch.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

Peach is terrible...besides, despite what you all may think/how much you train with your "mains", everyone's a fox main anyway. So don't worry too much about deciding whether or not you guys want to keep peach as your mains....play her when she's fun, and when she gets dull switch back to your real main, fox :D

you just described me in a nutshell....LOL

 

[ZoSo]

i don't want to constantly think in order to win

Lol.

 

[_Keno_]

Is there a list of guaranteed combos somewhere? Like nair/bair>grab at low % on fox/fal/capt or fair>turnip on jiggs?

If not, what are some combos that are either guaranteed or seem to always work?

 

[exarch]

Like float near the ground-ish and wait for fox to try shffl nair me and fair him.

You should try to uair him. Still beats his nair (from below,) and combos.
Into grab, tilts, smashes, anything.

*sigh* Nevermind no one actually applies the ideas I have. They either just say "Oh Gud IdR" or ignore me completely.

I'm quitting peach for brawl peach cause at least she has an infinite.
<lolimnotquittingpeach

 

[ConnorTheKid]

an infinite? what does she do; dsmash forever? looool

 

[Silly Kyle]

I play both Melee and Brawl Peach, both having an influence over the other.

But I have tons of fun spacing crown smacks!! That was probably one of the biggest tools for me to improve my spacing. After Genesis, I saw how Armada used it all the time and I became a big fan of it!!

<3

 

[bladeofapollo]

You should try to uair him. Still beats his nair (from below,) and combos.
Into grab, tilts, smashes, anything.

*sigh* Nevermind no one actually applies the ideas I have. They either just say "Oh Gud IdR" or ignore me completely.

I'm quitting peach for brawl peach cause at least she has an infinite.
<lolimnotquittingpeach

Silly Thomas, you know I'm trying to bring your Peach into 2010/2011. I played Dark Sonic in friendlies the other day and did pretty well!

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Lol.

oh come on beating a good falco with fox is as quick as uthrow doubleshine near the ledge
a lot of characters don't require a full thought process to win a friendly
idk i'm probably just being ******** now, but peach really does get boring

exarch you have really creative ideas but most of them are either unsafe, situational, or really technical in situations where there is a safe, simple, and cover-all move (usually dsmash)

like we were discussing djl utilt oos earlier, who the **** would do that
if you wanna counter a falling spacie you could not be ******** and wd oos or something
hell if you wanna get frisky try usmash oos, but djl utilt oos? who the hell would think "ok he fullhopped, he's going for a dair, i just gotta do my djl utilt oos and i'll be safe"

 

[bladeofapollo]

Good point Mafia. Why explore Peach's options/metagame when we have WD->dsmash?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

if you're being sarcastic that's hilarious
peach already has answers to most questions that get brought up, and unfortunately most of them end in dsmash
i'm all for innovation but why go and do the utmost when you can win, getting tricky (especially with peach) is really just making opertunities to **** up

 

[ZoSo]

oh come on beating a good falco with fox is as quick as uthrow doubleshine near the ledge
a lot of characters don't require a full thought process to win a friendly
idk i'm probably just being ******** now, but peach really does get boring

exarch you have really creative ideas but most of them are either unsafe, situational, or really technical in situations where there is a safe, simple, and cover-all move (usually dsmash)

like we were discussing djl utilt oos earlier, who the **** would do that
if you wanna counter a falling spacie you could not be ******** and wd oos or something
hell if you wanna get frisky try usmash oos, but djl utilt oos? who the hell would think "ok he fullhopped, he's going for a dair, i just gotta do my djl utilt oos and i'll be safe"

if you're being sarcastic that's hilarious
peach already has answers to most questions that get brought up, and unfortunately most of them end in dsmash
i'm all for innovation but why go and do the utmost when you can win, getting tricky (especially with peach) is really just making opertunities to **** up

I don't think there's a single sentence here that I don't disagree with.

You shouldn't try your hardest to win all the time.

Also lol @ people misusing the word "metagame" always and forever.

 

[MacD]

I don't think there's a single sentence here that I don't disagree with.

i think i found the best part to agree with

idk i'm probably just being ******** now, but peach really does get boring

 

[bladeofapollo]

I don't think there's a single sentence here that I don't disagree with.

The amount of negatives in this sentence almost didn't blow my mind.

 

[ZoSo]

You're so clever.

 

[Winston]

Also lol @ people misusing the word "metagame" always and forever.

meh, at this point that meaning is so widespread in the smash community I don't think it's really a misuse. It fills a niche that wasn't filled before. It's gaming jargon anyway so I don't see the problem with appropriating its meaning to fill our needs, as long as the meaning is clear to everyone.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

MacD the "********" part refers to peach using a full thought process in order for execution, even in friendlies
idk against most spacies i don't win unless i think about my spacing, and it can get kinda tiring, and while peaches mindless things are cool (dsmash) it's not winning whole games and above all it's not fun
what i'm trying to get to in the end here is that peach isn't really a super-duper fun character for me, she's just the one that i'm best at, and if i play her it's because i like improving with her
i know i sound kinda "anti-innovation" here but having a full bag of tricks isn't something that will help out peach right now

edit i think i totally get catty peach main points for the "if that's sarcastic you're hilarious" line, i totally didn't even catch that on myself till i read it over

woo me

 

[crismas]

lol thinking sucks

Derp.

 

[exarch]

Maybe the reason you find her boring is because you're not thinking? Just a possibility.

Part of improving a character is optimizing their game.

Ganon's relatively recently optimized their grab game... and now he's jumping tiers--at least he changed the matchup with peach anyways.

So if we want peach to do better, we should be taking advantage of her tricks.

If the spacy expects you to WD back, you're getting hit and nothing in return, if the spacy uses a bair, you're probably not getting anything either. The point is that utilt beats ALL the spacies crap from below, is faster than usmash, and combos into grab... or even dsmash. *gasp*

But I think I even said that the DJL stuff was a little crazy. (Then again, there's are people who can pivot consistently.) However, if you're ground floating already against Fox, replacing fair with uair to get a better punish is not crazy.

Then again, what do I know, Armada should WD Dsmash more and stop going for optimal punishment.

I mean... all those times he's dtilting... he could be dsmashing. Even the name sounds cooler.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

hmm
well obviously i can only speak from my point of view, so i'll say this
when i started out i tried to see the technical potential in peach, and i tried really hard to learn all the tricks, and even harder to imply them to my game
i've improved a lot lately and placed higher not because those tricks finally started working or anything, but because i've come to terms with what peach is and what she isn't, and she isn't a character with all the answers, but she has most of them
i suppose i should keep an open mind but while tricks are fun i just don't see most of the ones that we discuss becoming core factors of peaches' play
i honestly think peach is a fine character and she can and will beat any other character, i just think that we as players, including our top level peaches, aren't close to pushing her boundarys
we need to remember that we are playing the lagless character and we don't need new solutions for solved problems, we just need to become perfect at our old solutions


also i hated dtilt before vanz proved it ***** to me

 

[thesage]

You just have to learn when to use d-smash and when it's smarter to use other moves.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

That's all i'm saying^

anyway, here's a video of me from apex if anyone wants to give me some advice
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/8783671
vs ib, kid's a machine