VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[CyberZixx]

If you would have just typed "I don't know what the f*ck I'm doing", I would have been so confused as to what you meant. Glad you used a gif!

DoH inexplicably has a gif for everything. Don't question it.

 

[Purpletuce]

Challenge: How one would react to killing someone with something stupid like ledgehop Egg Lay, and the opponent panics and does an airdodge as they mash out.

 

[DoH]

 

[Get Low]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N5TRcR3ZtQ

This is probably the most intriguing Peach match I've ever seen, and I've always wanted to learn to be able to play a match this way if given the proper circumstances.

So, may I ask you guys some advice on how to get better at camping? Also, which characters would Peach effectively be able to do this against and on which stages?

 

[Rain(ame)]

Honestly...Pink Shinobi camped like it was his job. I can't remember the other Peach known for this. I know that Vidjo wasn't afraid to camp, either. I used to run away....just don't have the patience for it, anymore. (At least in singles. )

 

[MacD]

pink shinobi loved camping people from the get go. you can really only camp slow characters since you are slow yourself. the easiest stages to do it on are dreamland and stadium. you can in theory camp on FD, but with such a slow jump it doesn't really work well.

i'm thinking to get better at it, you need to learn to use turnips really well and know how to mix up your escape options. who knows if that is right though. the only person who is good at camping that is still active would be light, so maybe he knows more but he never posts.

that said, if you ever try to camp me, vanz, or doh in a ditto......... you will probably be excommunicated from the community

 

[Get Low]

pink shinobi loved camping people from the get go. you can really only camp slow characters since you are slow yourself. the easiest stages to do it on are dreamland and stadium. you can in theory camp on FD, but with such a slow jump it doesn't really work well.

i'm thinking to get better at it, you need to learn to use turnips really well and know how to mix up your escape options. who knows if that is right though. the only person who is good at camping that is still active would be light, so maybe he knows more but he never posts.

that said, if you ever try to camp me, vanz, or doh in a ditto......... you will probably be excommunicated from the community

Thank you, this is super helpful!
And I was actually thinking about trying to camp Vanz the next time I play him in tournament (whether he uses Peach, or Puff which he has been doing lately). I doubt it would work though, on account of he's significantly better than me.

 

[Cia]

Thank you, this is super helpful!
And I was actually thinking about trying to camp Vanz the next time I play him in tournament (whether he uses Peach, or Puff which he has been doing lately). I doubt it would work though, on account of he's significantly better than me.

Camping me in ditto? Good luck out running me :D

 

[KirbyKaze]

I remember watching VaNz vs Armada at APEX (2012?)

At the start of one of the matches, Armada ran away and did turnips and hit him with like 3 aerials and a vegetable or something like that. Wound up doing 50% or so. Then VaNz caught him and comboed him to about 50%. And that's pretty much how the matches went period until Armada game three.

...Which was basically just an avalanche of rotten turnips and good ol' fashioned RNG abuse.

But yeah, VaNz's Peach is so scary in dittos and IMO especially good vs runaway playstyles.

 

[Armada]

Yeah I remember those games pretty well.
I played that way cause I had no idea how to play the MU and I hoped my patience would work out good enough. Vanz was very good against that sort of style though.

Between Apex 2012 and Apex 2013 I did learn a bit more about the MU and towards the end I played a bit more of an aggresive style not letting myself get into the corner cause I had no idea how to play the MU.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

what about aggressive play do you think works in the peach ditto?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm not Armada but IMO Peach "combos" herself decently if you can out space her counterattacks in a free-fall. And without her float she doesn't have a stunning recovery vs herself at low-mid percents so pushing her to the edge and hitting her off into a bunch of free aerials during an edgeguard is good for staying ahead in the damage race.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Thanks! Another question:
To be honest, I've always been stumped as to how to take a defensive approach with peach. I find that I don't camp turnips so much as I chuck them incredibly frequently; more spamming than camping. Every example of successful keep-away play with her (pink shinobi) is uninterpretable to me, let alone possible for me to emulate. I always feel like I'm trying to close the space, and when I actively focus on making them come to me, I never have much planned outside of wd back->dsmash, or dash attack. I'm not sure how to not get hit with her.

Also, TY to mccain for useful advice. If I set my mind to it, I'm sure I can become a ledgeguarding monster. :3

 

[MacD]

no probs little dude. it's probably not as hard as you think.

and i'm actually going to be working on all that jazz you just talked about. i only know one direction in the game, and it's forward. sheik is like THE COUNTER to that, and is probably the reason i absolutely despise sheik. like i'd rather get 3 stocked by johnny for an hour and feel hopeless than play against a sheik for an hour where i win a majority of the games

****ing sheik man..... ugh

 

[DoH]

lol sheik is one of my favorite matchups

 

[Jethrotex]

Sometimes if I'm lucky KK will let me move. Otherwise it just feels like uncomfortable bondage.

Is there comfortable bondage or is it supposed to be uncomfortable because that adds the zest?

 

[ConnorTheKid]

DoH come to SoCal, play against our Sheiks and tell us how you feel.

 

[DoH]

What Sheiks do you have there?

Did someone say bondage?

 

[Star Child]

Would a campy-er peach be a better option against a puff? The air advantage of puff would suck, but is puffs vertical airspeed good enough to catch peach? seems like you could deal with it well enough with turnips and dair as long as you stayed above puff...

 

[Jethrotex]

Man, you really have a gif for everything. One day I hope to walk down the path you paved for us small time giffers.

 

[JJTheJetPlane]

Just throw turnips and don't dash attack a puff on the ground.

 

[AozoraX]

Hey guys
I've been having issues with Marth players. Especially stages like Battlefield or Yoshi's where they just don't let me back down. Marth's are also always enroaching on my space so I hardly get turnip pulls.
Any tips on fighting a Marth with a good sense of the Peach MU? I seem to be getting smacked around by slippery Marths and especially ones that know the MU well.

Any tips are appreciated! I figure I should be picking stages like FD or Dreamland when possible, but I really don't like stages with platforms against Marth (for obvious reasons).

Help

Edit:
Should I be giving more space? If I keep giving space, he'll know when my turnips are coming. I feel like I've got nothing but a dash attack and hopefully well timed bair will help but I'm not even sure anymore.

Also, general tips about movement? I need to be more proactive on staying out of my shield.

 

[Xyzz]

Neutral game vs Marth:
Some facts:
- he is a lot more mobile than you are.
- but he doesn't want to run away too much, because he doesn't have a projectile.
- his air to ground interaction isn't good.
- He isn't good at pushing into his opponents super hard, because his attacks vs shield game is okay, but not desirable. He can space aerials and get away with it, but it's not really all that easy to push from hitting shields into getting an opening like we, spacies or CF can do.
The conclusion:
He wants to get somewhat close, but doesn't want to close the remaining distance preemptively, but instead wait for you to do something. Which means, he'll usually dash dance there and wait for your reaction.
Your reaction should not consist of "get scared, throw out a downsmash (or spotdodge), get punished for it" , but instead you are usually going to want to not directly attack from there, but rather do something to break his desired spacing.

Most of the time you do that by starting to dash towards him, which he can answer by:
1) use f smash or something else from his grounded moveset with a long range, but fairly lengthy wind-down.
2) use an aerial
3) move away
4) shield

you can do the following:
a) dash attack
b) use an aerial
c) actually pull back instead of performing the attack
d) grab

Well, it basically comes down to reading what he is doing. In general you want to dash attack his aerials, pull back on his laggy ground moves and punish afterwards, move back a little if he does and grab a turnip, and grab or aerial his shield. Well, it's not entirely clear cut, since we're talking about melee and not RPS (his aerials don't win every single time, dash attack can catch evasive movement because it's really good, etcpp).

He does have a decent advantage in neutral, but Peach's punishment game really evens out the matchup. He tends to have real trouble finishing you off, and you on the other side really bring the pain every time you get your hands on him.


edit: moving back is really good, because it's so non-comitting. Do a lot of these until he stops doing 1)
and of course there's a lot more to say about the matchup, but I think the above situation is the quintessential part Peach has to understand in order to do okay vs Marth

 

[Babatunde]

lol Marths never Dashdance to pressure me, they always play patient and stuff to get the fsmash/tipper on me which usually results in me
1.) Spotdodging
2.)Dash attacking (lol they could always fsmash early to see this coming doe)
(Wat we following a list fad here now? lol)
But i guess i could also take that opporitunity to go back and pull a turnip for one of our best approaches.

 

[AozoraX]

Thanks for the tips, gonna be using it for a huge tournament this weekend (Calgary Smash Chronicles).
One thing I have to say though that kinda makes me sad is that a lot of the other boards have such in-depth character specific matchups (not saying the first page isn't indepth) but I guess it's more like an evolution of the character developed in those threads.

That, or maybe the Peach playstyle just hasn't changed in a while.
I'm no amazing Peach but I'm trying to expand my game and it's harder now since I started so late ><;

 

[pheX]

I also have a few questions. We got this new link player in Germany called Sixx. he is freakishly good and beat both zgetto and faab at the last tournament with his link. I lost pretty close to him but actually I had no idea what i was doing in this match up. Is anybody experienced with this MU? And please dont suggest to camp like Pink Shinobi vs Germ :D And what stage would you pick/ban/strike vs a link?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

peach link is one of those pain-in-the-ass matchups that you win with a mix of playing a better character and outplaying them. You can't win without exploiting him, but you won't win ONLY by exploiting him. Float is good because he can't horisontally outspace you, but it's not a great idea to challenge him in the air, and you're gonna have to block projectiles, so be careful. Dash attack is good, but don't get grabbed. Baiting his shieldgrab with groundfloat is amazing. don't get up-b'd OOS though. Turnips are really good. RESPECT THE NAIR and beware the swordplant. watch your dome.
Battlefield and Dreamland are fine. FD is great. Strike FoD, ban stadium.
I treat this MU kinda like the peach ditto. It has a lot to do with who has priority in the air, who has a projectile, who's above who, etc. I usually win just by outlasting link.

 

[pheX]

thanks for the advice. Also: how should i DI his throw? So i dont get upB'ed or Upair'ed too easily?

 

[.K1]

I know this matchup has probably been beaten to death, but im a new peach player and im curious how the matchup vs Fox is played. What should I be looking for offensively and defensively. Is my CC game a good tool vs fox? Can I do anything vs drillshine approaches?

 

[mudkyp]

Hi I'm Charles.

I like long walks on the beach, big *****, and fried chicken.

 

[DoH]

I see you've seen my manhunt profile Charles.

 

[Blother]

I'm sure this is just a technical problem with how I'm hitting the control stick, but I am having trouble hitting uair. Whenever I try to uair using control stick + A I end up falling instead of continuing the upward movement from the jump. I am assuming I am using my second jump through the control stick while trying to uair. To get around this I have been trying to float right as I use the uair, but I would like to be able to do it without this. I could use the c-stick, but then I can't float without using a second jump.

I am guessing I have exhausted all of the different ways to use uair. Do I just need to get better at control my uair using the control stick, or am I missing something?

 

[MacD]

yo peeps. i've started streaming when people come over for smash. i don't have set schedules or times or anything, but you should come, watch, ask questions, chat, whatever.

possibly doing it tonight around 7-8pm PST with Jkun (marth/sheik player), and again friday with connor, neighboorhood P, and a couple others

i suggest following my stream and twitter to know when i do stream.

http://www.twitch.tv/macdsmash
https://twitter.com/MacDsmash

 

[AozoraX]

If you teach me how 2 properly Peach i'll add a number to that list
seriously tho
i get ****ing stomped on by marths. why is that matchup so horrible

 

[Jethrotex]

I'm sure this is just a technical problem with how I'm hitting the control stick, but I am having trouble hitting uair. Whenever I try to uair using control stick + A I end up falling instead of continuing the upward movement from the jump. I am assuming I am using my second jump through the control stick while trying to uair. To get around this I have been trying to float right as I use the uair, but I would like to be able to do it without this. I could use the c-stick, but then I can't float without using a second jump.

I am guessing I have exhausted all of the different ways to use uair. Do I just need to get better at control my uair using the control stick, or am I missing something?

Use the c-stick, even if it feels weird at first, using the c-stick to control all your aerials allows you to be more fluid in the way you can move/drift whilst doing your attacks.

 

[Blother]

Use the c-stick, even if it feels weird at first, using the c-stick to control all your aerials allows you to be more fluid in the way you can move/drift whilst doing your attacks.

I always hear the opposite for peach. Are you using the control stick to hold the float then?

 

[Xyzz]

It's nice to be able to do both, because there's things that can't really be done without.

Retreating fair is incredibly annoying without the c-stick doing the move and the control stick doing the movement. (and probably humanly impossible to perfectly execute)
fc nair is actually impossible while you hold up on the controlstick.

I'm not quite sure what you're actually asking regarding the up air... if you want to do an up air and go to float sometime later, I guess stickjumping and pressing "a" while never letting go of the control stick works (just as well as pressing up on the c-stick). If you want to do something like jump -> float -> up air, i'd recommend jumping with x/y, pressing down while still holding the jump button and then doing the aerial in your preferred way (either hitting up and a or repositioning your fingers to up on control stick and using the c-stick for the up air).

 

[Blother]

Yea it is hard to describe but i think my timing has just been bad. I worked on it a bit today and I think I figure it out. Generally I use the c-stick when I'm not floating. I think it would be too weird to float with the control stick and use the c-stick for anything.

 

[Jethrotex]

I always hear the opposite for peach. Are you using the control stick to hold the float then?

I claw with Peach. It gives you a lot more control over your aerials.

 

[john!]

how do you do quick nairs with claw? do you hit the a button with your pointer finger while holding y?