Maybe do some weird **** where you hold X with the knuckle of your pointer finger and then hit A with some other part of the finger. Lawl idk I don't really care to claw though.
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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)
- Thread starter Cia
- Start date
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
don't get too fancy lol. take it from me. fc nair is my middle name.
just use your index finger for Z and your thumb for jump. Claw is overrated, especially for peach
best way to hold the controller for peach is where you hold the joystick w/ your left hand and tap buttons with your right hand w/ the right side of the controller on your lap
There was a peach player a while back who had crazy nair pressure because he played like that. The General, i think? sadly, many sick peach players are forgotten throughout the years
rip pink shinobi
just use your index finger for Z and your thumb for jump. Claw is overrated, especially for peach
best way to hold the controller for peach is where you hold the joystick w/ your left hand and tap buttons with your right hand w/ the right side of the controller on your lap
There was a peach player a while back who had crazy nair pressure because he played like that. The General, i think? sadly, many sick peach players are forgotten throughout the years
rip pink shinobi
Xyzz
Smash Champion
You shouldn't really ask that question; nobody can answer what's most comfortable/efficient for YOUR hands.
If you come across a style of holding the controller that sounds/looks interesting, give it a shot.
Virtually everybody uses the classical grip.
Some do the semi-claw thing (index on Z, middle on R, thumb on x. Hit the c-stick with the base of the hand/thumb)
some confuse the GCC with an arcade stick and use a finger for each button.
If you come across a style of holding the controller that sounds/looks interesting, give it a shot.
Virtually everybody uses the classical grip.
Some do the semi-claw thing (index on Z, middle on R, thumb on x. Hit the c-stick with the base of the hand/thumb)
some confuse the GCC with an arcade stick and use a finger for each button.
MacD
Banned via Administration
i used to use Z, then my Z button broke and that is the one thing that can't be fixed so i had to get a new controller
i now use A and can do it just as fast. i've always used X to jump and X > A is easy enough anyway. also if you ever want to FC OoS and you shield with R, you have to use A anyway (my original problem LOL)
i now use A and can do it just as fast. i've always used X to jump and X > A is easy enough anyway. also if you ever want to FC OoS and you shield with R, you have to use A anyway (my original problem LOL)
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
Blother, we are all discussing your question, as well as claw in general :3
Z is useful because you can do your jump inputs with your thumb and nair with Z. it's pretty easy to roll your thumb from X/Y to A otherwise, so the distinction is really preference.
I'd say the benefit to Z is you get a really straightforward nair-> grab pillar because your finger's already on grab. But sometimes you'll light shield if you do it too fast. Meanwhile learning to do it w/ X/Y->A makes fc nair OOS possible/easier.
at the end of the day you're always gonna benefit most from flexibility so I suggest learning to do it both ways. I use Z for pillaring and A for fc nair oos.
Z is useful because you can do your jump inputs with your thumb and nair with Z. it's pretty easy to roll your thumb from X/Y to A otherwise, so the distinction is really preference.
I'd say the benefit to Z is you get a really straightforward nair-> grab pillar because your finger's already on grab. But sometimes you'll light shield if you do it too fast. Meanwhile learning to do it w/ X/Y->A makes fc nair OOS possible/easier.
at the end of the day you're always gonna benefit most from flexibility so I suggest learning to do it both ways. I use Z for pillaring and A for fc nair oos.
I thought so, it was just that when I asked about using Z I got confused by the reply after D:
I actually just realized I could use Z to perform air attacks today lol. I have always done everything using A or c-stick.
What is pillaring? I think I've heard the term used with falco but never peach.
MacD you should stream more. I didn't get to watch it live because of timezones, but I watched it the next day and it was great. Its the only time I've gotten to see consistent peach games in a row by the same person. Watching streams are a lot different from watching video for me.
I actually just realized I could use Z to perform air attacks today lol. I have always done everything using A or c-stick.
What is pillaring? I think I've heard the term used with falco but never peach.
MacD you should stream more. I didn't get to watch it live because of timezones, but I watched it the next day and it was great. Its the only time I've gotten to see consistent peach games in a row by the same person. Watching streams are a lot different from watching video for me.
Jethrotex
Smash Journeyman
I switch from a normal position to claw; I keep my hands normally positioned and then claw when I'm getting into my float.
Also I think Xif had some crazy nair pressure as well.
MacD
Banned via Administration
i had this exact issue, and what i've discovered is if you jump cancel the grab, it'll always come out and you never light shield. Z is weird like that where it'll shield right after attacks sometimes.
i'm going to stream again tonight around 6:30-7pst. connor, hugs, neighborhood P, Crimson blur, and one other guy are coming over. gonna try to rotate things so people see a variety of matchups.
i'm working on streaming more, but as of now, it'll only happen when people come over because i'm not gonna lug my desktop around everywhere
http://www.twitch.tv/macdsmash
Honestly you could even stream if you are practicing by yourself and I would find that beneficial, and possibly others would too. I'm always curious how other people practice and it isn't something that is put on video at all I don't think. As long as it isn't any trouble to you, I really think you should consider recording some solo play.
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
super good to know. thanks mac daddy!
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
For clawing, I just use my index finger for Y and my thumb for A. I can never remember exactly, since I don't think about it often, but I believe I switch my index finger from Y to Z when I want to grab, too.
I don't think it's bad, but I'll concede that it's probably a super weird way to do FC nairs. I'm not entirely sure where or why I picked it up, either, but it's definitely not for everyone. But for Peach, I don't think there's an "optimal" method.
I don't think it's bad, but I'll concede that it's probably a super weird way to do FC nairs. I'm not entirely sure where or why I picked it up, either, but it's definitely not for everyone. But for Peach, I don't think there's an "optimal" method.
I am still watching your last broadcast because I couldn't watch much live and it is pretty awesome. I am surprised at how often you use usmash compared to the other peach players I have watched.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
McCain and his c-stick decided it was time to spice things up.
mexicanmax227
Smash Apprentice
Hey melee guys whose the closest smash melee players closest to Clinton, MS? Im off for thanksgiving and want to practice my matchups. Im a peach main and can play marth, sheik, fox, falco, falcon, jiggs and some low tiers. Im trying to train specifically my peach and can offer yall my others as practice for yalls matchups. Let me know :D. MELEE ONLY LOL
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
I'm sad to say this is the wrong place to ask this question. You should go to the mississippi regional thread or something. Smashboards is easy enough to navigate that I don't need to hold your hand through it.
But good stuff playing peach and good luck finding people to play!
AozoraX
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2012
- Messages
- 95
So, after many years, have we discovered new tips and tricks for each matchup? Or has the Peach metagame been pretty lackluster of late? Reason: I've been lurking other boards and all their characters and respective players dug up tons of techniques or moves to use versus what situation for their characters.
Also, how the hell do you stop a Fox nairplane... can't get away and can't turnip intercept, do I just pray my spacing is amazing or shield/dodge/downsmash?
Also, how the hell do you stop a Fox nairplane... can't get away and can't turnip intercept, do I just pray my spacing is amazing or shield/dodge/downsmash?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
If he's obvious about just wanting to nair you, you've got a fast nair as well, and that thing happens to trade a lot. Guess who is probably going to benefit from that trade.
MacD
Banned via Administration
vanz might as well just have quit and isn't going to care to update the front page
i have 0 idea how to write out useful general matchup knowledge like that.....
sooo unless you can make DoH do it (and not have the whole thing say powershield > dsmash) then i guess GG peach boards are screwed
i have 0 idea how to write out useful general matchup knowledge like that.....
sooo unless you can make DoH do it (and not have the whole thing say powershield > dsmash) then i guess GG peach boards are screwed
AozoraX
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2012
- Messages
- 95
((((((((I believe in you MacD; maybe you should take up the throne. We gotta step it up! I mean, I'm just saying that because Smash is now finally blooming in my area and I can't stop now... #motivated
MacD
Banned via Administration
no like you don't understand, i literally can not do match up writes ups or general advice.
ask connor, vanz, people in my area, it just doesn't happen that way
btw i streamed again tonight, only really played in the beginning.. lots of me vs hyprid (pretty darn good marth OG socal goes to school in norcal)
ask connor, vanz, people in my area, it just doesn't happen that way
btw i streamed again tonight, only really played in the beginning.. lots of me vs hyprid (pretty darn good marth OG socal goes to school in norcal)
AozoraX
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2012
- Messages
- 95
Speaking of Marth, when one is consistently spamming nair, how do you get past that? Shieldgrab?
Or Falcons for example. I can never Dash Attack them to stop the nair, I just get smacked with it.
I've been using up-tilt a lot though, it seems to work a ton tho
Or Falcons for example. I can never Dash Attack them to stop the nair, I just get smacked with it.
I've been using up-tilt a lot though, it seems to work a ton tho
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Putting out aerials to trade can answer both of your questions. I don't get what you mean by dash attack not working against Nair? If you're not mistiming it you should at least get a trade. I imagine that if you're having trouble with his Nair, you're probably dash attacking whenever he has momentum? When Falcon has time to DD and move around, with his momentum, he can usually pick an opening pretty well. I usually don't try to DA unless they're in a certain position where I know I'll get something off it. Not sure how to describe it, I just know, probably based off of percents and the situation.
john!
Smash Hero
WD back > CC dsmash wrecks a LOT of SHFFL approaches unless they are really good
MacD
Banned via Administration
jk i lied, i forget hyprid came before i set up my stream, and once i got it going i didn't play vs him LOL. me and connor did some peach dittos on pokefloats though LOLOOL
there is some of me vs connor's marth in that last recording, but it's like not helpful cause it's connor's random marth
there is some of me vs connor's marth in that last recording, but it's like not helpful cause it's connor's random marth
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
it's hard to give an answer to "what do i do about nair" because pretty much every character's nair is safe or punishable depending on their ability to space it.
Vs spacies, you should WD back and dsmash or shield then punish. You *can* get away, it's just very difficult if they're already on you. WD back twice is really good and will almost always give you an excess of space. Sometimes you gotta get counterintuitive with it and WD towards the pressure to escape.
Vs marth, you generally want to dash attack him whenever he jumps. the problem is that with the rest of his aerials, you can dash attack once you see him jump, but nair will stuff that dash attack. so you gotta note that he's doing it and dash attack on anticipation. If you're really getting stuffed, chuck some turnips and try again later.
Vs falcon, there's almost nothing you can do against a wellspaced fadeaway nair. I had a match against Hax a while ago where I got COMPLETELY locked down by fadeaway nair. You NEED to trade dash attack with it. Still, sometimes it just. . . won't work. Remain patient and wait for him to screw up. It's not a proactive solution but it is a way out of the problem.
I've always been for writing very long forum posts, but I doubt people are dying for my matchup advice
Maybe one day when I'm better.
Vs spacies, you should WD back and dsmash or shield then punish. You *can* get away, it's just very difficult if they're already on you. WD back twice is really good and will almost always give you an excess of space. Sometimes you gotta get counterintuitive with it and WD towards the pressure to escape.
Vs marth, you generally want to dash attack him whenever he jumps. the problem is that with the rest of his aerials, you can dash attack once you see him jump, but nair will stuff that dash attack. so you gotta note that he's doing it and dash attack on anticipation. If you're really getting stuffed, chuck some turnips and try again later.
Vs falcon, there's almost nothing you can do against a wellspaced fadeaway nair. I had a match against Hax a while ago where I got COMPLETELY locked down by fadeaway nair. You NEED to trade dash attack with it. Still, sometimes it just. . . won't work. Remain patient and wait for him to screw up. It's not a proactive solution but it is a way out of the problem.
I've always been for writing very long forum posts, but I doubt people are dying for my matchup advice
Maybe one day when I'm better.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Might still be fun to read. I like getting all sorts of opinions and perspectives on matchups, maybe there's something I can steal and incorporate in my gameplay :D
The Depths
Smash Rookie
What to do about falcon nair is a pretty ambiguous question like you said. Its super good against Peach if done right but of course it depends on the spacing. If you can provide footage of yourself I'm sure someone would be willing to talk about specifics.
Against bad spacing CC can work obviously. Trading or trying to stuff with your own aerials is not often a good solution because falcon is really good at baiting and punishing you for going into the air (and his aerials have hitboxes such that people would say they have "high priority" although aerial priority mechanics are not so black and white). Also the risk/reward ratio is pretty blatantly bad with that option considering he gets a flowchart combo after the hitconfirm while you very well may just get that 1 aerial. Dash attack is nice, nair shouldn't beat it if you place the dash attack appropriately (although keep in mind that this becomes harder and harder against more highly skilled opponents). I'm sure you know that dash attack is the easiest to punish among Peach's "core" neutral game moves, so falcon will try to bait. Against a falcon that spaces like hax(so mostly just hax lol), using the fade back/"tipper" nair placement) there is not much you can do besides shield if he's already gotten in your face. You can try to WD back oos between the hits if you're OD like that
, or you can try to skew the spacing a bit with shield DI. You should be trying to make it as hard as possible for him to abuse his spacing to begin with mostly.
Edit (unrelated): Does anyone have the >specific< percents at which Peach's uthrow leads to direct aerial follow-up on sheik? It seems that there is a decent range where, even if it is not always a true combo, Peach can follow-up without sheik's options coming out in time.
Edit 2 lol: Regarding FC aerials. For FC nair don't claw. I use a sort of claw for higher floating but its not efficient for ground level instant aerials. Using Z or A are both fine, although Z is a tad easier with controller layout. For aerial>grab you shouldn't JC grab because it wastes your frame advantage. Just time the grab. As an insurance policy you can press/spam A after pressing Z so that if lightshield is accidentally triggered you will grab anyway. I just time the grab though most of the time.
Against bad spacing CC can work obviously. Trading or trying to stuff with your own aerials is not often a good solution because falcon is really good at baiting and punishing you for going into the air (and his aerials have hitboxes such that people would say they have "high priority" although aerial priority mechanics are not so black and white). Also the risk/reward ratio is pretty blatantly bad with that option considering he gets a flowchart combo after the hitconfirm while you very well may just get that 1 aerial. Dash attack is nice, nair shouldn't beat it if you place the dash attack appropriately (although keep in mind that this becomes harder and harder against more highly skilled opponents). I'm sure you know that dash attack is the easiest to punish among Peach's "core" neutral game moves, so falcon will try to bait. Against a falcon that spaces like hax(so mostly just hax lol), using the fade back/"tipper" nair placement) there is not much you can do besides shield if he's already gotten in your face. You can try to WD back oos between the hits if you're OD like that
, or you can try to skew the spacing a bit with shield DI. You should be trying to make it as hard as possible for him to abuse his spacing to begin with mostly.Edit (unrelated): Does anyone have the >specific< percents at which Peach's uthrow leads to direct aerial follow-up on sheik? It seems that there is a decent range where, even if it is not always a true combo, Peach can follow-up without sheik's options coming out in time.
Edit 2 lol: Regarding FC aerials. For FC nair don't claw. I use a sort of claw for higher floating but its not efficient for ground level instant aerials. Using Z or A are both fine, although Z is a tad easier with controller layout. For aerial>grab you shouldn't JC grab because it wastes your frame advantage. Just time the grab. As an insurance policy you can press/spam A after pressing Z so that if lightshield is accidentally triggered you will grab anyway. I just time the grab though most of the time.
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
It doesn't work all the time but if you trick them into DIing up and in around 100% you can uthrow tipper uair and it'll kill on almost every stage
one of my favorite setups
one of my favorite setups
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Oh wow, i didn't even know that... and it seems like a fairly achievable thing to do if you get the grab close to the ledge... "heey, i'm gonna fthrow you, want to DI up and in, so you don't fly off as far? Jk, fox-mode activated, wahaha!" :D
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
yeah it's called "the flapjack combo" because it never looks like it's gonna kill them but then they just barely make it off the top
and "flapjack DI" refers to DI that doesn't make it seem like you're gonna die off the top but then you do
i just made up the combo, diesel made the name, don't ask me
and "flapjack DI" refers to DI that doesn't make it seem like you're gonna die off the top but then you do
i just made up the combo, diesel made the name, don't ask me
MacD if you don't think you can write good matchup advice, why not try using a mix of video edits and commentary to explain different matchups? It would make sense considering you are trying to stream more (new video equipment and what not) and would probably be more beneficial for people to watch the match-up as you discuss different ways to play it, rather than read about it. It would probably be more work, but it would be extremely useful if you decide to put the time into it. Maybe analyzing your own play will help you learn the matchups better yourself, or lead you to create new strategies. Teaching helps yourself learn as well as others
Oh btw I'm curious what new equipment you are getting for streaming. I want to look into equipment for myself and would love opinions on it. I know there is a thread for discussion on streaming equipment, but I'm sure you have put in research to improve your streaming and suggestions would help me get started on my own research.
Oh btw I'm curious what new equipment you are getting for streaming. I want to look into equipment for myself and would love opinions on it. I know there is a thread for discussion on streaming equipment, but I'm sure you have put in research to improve your streaming and suggestions would help me get started on my own research.
AozoraX
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2012
- Messages
- 95
Works great on platforms, I found.
Also thanks everyone for the great tips; this is the kind of matchup advice we should be talking about. Straight down to the spacing per move.
Also I'd like to know if anyone ever incorporates the u-tilit anytime? Apparently it has invincibility frames but it never seems amazing, though I'd used it by accident and it works sometimes...
MacD
Banned via Administration
god damn it DDoS. so hard to communicate in these threads
your idea is a solid one blother. i do find myself getting bored after work/on weekends and am trying to figure out how to fill the time. the only 2 issues are idk if i could actually help non-peach mains and i don't really care about getting better. i love playing teams, and trying to get better is cool, but i don't have the drive or want to do so. it's something i'll consider though, as that would be something interesting to do, and a good way to get viewers!!
as for streaming stuff, i was using connor's old dazzle which worked fine as you could see, but is like 5 years old. so what i did was ask chibo what would get me pretty good quality and pretty good webcams, and he told me so i bought them. and now he's sending me his old splitters and mics. sooo yeaaa...... my research is abusing friendships and doing 0 work myself
your idea is a solid one blother. i do find myself getting bored after work/on weekends and am trying to figure out how to fill the time. the only 2 issues are idk if i could actually help non-peach mains and i don't really care about getting better. i love playing teams, and trying to get better is cool, but i don't have the drive or want to do so. it's something i'll consider though, as that would be something interesting to do, and a good way to get viewers!!
as for streaming stuff, i was using connor's old dazzle which worked fine as you could see, but is like 5 years old. so what i did was ask chibo what would get me pretty good quality and pretty good webcams, and he told me so i bought them. and now he's sending me his old splitters and mics. sooo yeaaa...... my research is abusing friendships and doing 0 work myself
I'm not sure why your video wouldn't help non-peach mains. Are you referring to players who don't main peach and are trying to learn her as a secondary, or players looking to see how peach plays against there own main so they can counter them? If you are commentating on a video about how to beat marths that are spamming nair (since that is part of the current discussion), any marth main that watches your video is going to understand how peach is looking to counter his nair attempts.
Even if you aren't looking to get better I would bet that analyzing videos of your own play to teach others is going to benefit you regardless. It will change your play subconsciously even if you are only trying to help the community/get viewers and not trying to improve yourself.
If you are bored and want something to do I would definitely suggest you try making some videos. It doesn't have to be anything fancy either. I remembering you mentioning that you play LoL during one of your streams? Not sure if you have ever watched Trick2g's stream but he became really popular in a short period of time by combining his streaming with informational videos. He is also very entertaining to watch and he seems to have a ton of fun while also teaching viewers different ways to play and improve. Although SSBM streaming is a bit different, a similar method would probably help you out in getting more viewers.
Let me know what your friend gets you for streaming so I can mooch off his work too
Even if you aren't looking to get better I would bet that analyzing videos of your own play to teach others is going to benefit you regardless. It will change your play subconsciously even if you are only trying to help the community/get viewers and not trying to improve yourself.
If you are bored and want something to do I would definitely suggest you try making some videos. It doesn't have to be anything fancy either. I remembering you mentioning that you play LoL during one of your streams? Not sure if you have ever watched Trick2g's stream but he became really popular in a short period of time by combining his streaming with informational videos. He is also very entertaining to watch and he seems to have a ton of fun while also teaching viewers different ways to play and improve. Although SSBM streaming is a bit different, a similar method would probably help you out in getting more viewers.
Let me know what your friend gets you for streaming so I can mooch off his work too
AozoraX
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2012
- Messages
- 95
MacD, let's put it this way, you wouldn't be the first person to say that... but
Peach players like myself who want that drive and put trust into the said "mains" could use help in all forms. It's hard enough to get a critique.
TL;DR do it for the vine
I think it would be kinda cool to see a hitbox vs hitbox comparison type of thing though. I zipped through the Marth boards a little and I saw a huge (and detailed) setup of how to fair on a Fox sideb. Mind blown
Peach players like myself who want that drive and put trust into the said "mains" could use help in all forms. It's hard enough to get a critique.
TL;DR do it for the vine
I think it would be kinda cool to see a hitbox vs hitbox comparison type of thing though. I zipped through the Marth boards a little and I saw a huge (and detailed) setup of how to fair on a Fox sideb. Mind blown
MacD
Banned via Administration
i'm trying to stream and record in good enough quailty. i mean it really depends on how good you want it to look/how much you can spend. i got this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815144042
i am going to try to record vids and stream at the same time. we'll see what i can do in the end though. as for splitters, he's gonna send me his old ones so idk about those
i am going to try to record vids and stream at the same time. we'll see what i can do in the end though. as for splitters, he's gonna send me his old ones so idk about those
The Depths
Smash Rookie
Yeah I was familiar with the kill set up, never knew it had a nifty name though. I was actually just wondering if anyone had the exact percents at which uthrow can be followed up and with what. I think I'll just try testing it myself and posting my results at some point.
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
The answer is always powershield downsmash