VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Babatunde]

As of now I hate yoshi's story, way too small of a platform stage for me.

 

[ShroudedOne]

This is great. I'm watching the match as I review these. I would like any possible Sheik advice if you can, it'll help us both in that case I guess. And about the specifics about changing things OoS sounds awesome. I always have issues getting out of it and rolling seems to work since he likes to commit to his pressure a lot but he'd eventually strike me out of it. Though I assume the Sheik matchup is going to roughly look the same since they were back to back matches. SUPER appreciate this though S1, the local community keeps saying I'm a stellar Peach but I hardly believe it when I get trucked like this. Sadface. Guess I'll keep studying Armada matches.

Well I'm glad it helped some. I'll look at the Sheik video later this week (currently coming down with an awful cold, so I dunno when I'll be in the mood).

I would say that, as long as you avoid PS, you can fight Fox on any of the other stages without issue.

 

[Nintendude]

=)

Posting ideas I had but never really put into my game because of me knowing I would retire etc. But yeah someone need to preform super well with Peach so =)

Hey Armada. Can you please shed some light on when to use Bair vs. Dair when edgeguarding spacies that are coming from below? Also, how do you consistently not trade when using Dair?

 

[knightpraetor]

I second that question. When I first started learning peach I went for a lot of dair because I saw it in armada videos, but I kept trading and gave up. Bair seemed immensely easier so i eventually shifted to using that except when I don't have time to get in position to bair​

 

[Babatunde]

Dair is successful for me when im not near the ledge. Meaning it's as if im poking through the ledge rather than just floating off to get it then end up trading.

 

[Purpletuce]

I know that if you stay toward the center of the stage to keep your hurtbox away and hit box close. I also think that their up b has more priority to the front of them, so trades more when they point right at you. If you can dair -> nair I think that is preferred but harder to pull of. Also, I'm from knoxville tn. Sup.

 

[Babatunde]

What up new TN peep!
Check this out if your interested in local stuff.
http://smashboards.com/threads/kaos...nd-brawl-may-4th-2013-murfreesboro-tn.335575/

 

[Purpletuce]

I just realized that my current location isn't up though. I moved to Oregon for school.

 

[Babatunde]

Oh, how are things there?

 

[Purpletuce]

Good weather job school and girlfriend. The scene is awkward, between Washington and California, but our scene isn't that big. We have one handout player, eggz, and several good players after that. A ton of mid level players. Last I heard we also have zelgadis lurking here still. O feel like you weren't wanting that much information.

 

[Babatunde]

Don't mind, glad things are going great for you there in more aspects than just smash. Thats always a great thing.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'm a Samus main who started messing around with Peach. How do you chain grab ff's who put in any sort of DI? JC grab? Normal grab? I can't get it.

 

[Xyzz]

We should have a FAQ for these things :x

You can use normal dash grabs, the main thing is too learn to start the dash as soon as the throw animation ends and that her dash grabs travels quite a bit, so you can do the grab command a bit earlier than most people expect.

 

[iRobinhoood]

learn to start the dash as soon as the throw animation ends and that her dash grabs travels quite a bit, so you can do the grab command a bit earlier than most people expect.

I think this was the piece I was missing, thank you. I might have some more questions later on as I figure out in the ins and outs.

 

[Armada]

Hey Armada. Can you please shed some light on when to use Bair vs. Dair when edgeguarding spacies that are coming from below? Also, how do you consistently not trade when using Dair?

I will try my best to explain but Im afraid it will just sound "standard" but anyway.

Dair: The best option overall (possible to Smash-DI and take the edge but no one is really using it BUT d-smash counter that but you have to predict).
I go for it basically all the time because they can never tech this move and they can't even sweetspot the edge to escape from it. The spacing for hitting them with dair without tradeing is very tricky.

However after a bit of playing I realized I sometimes was getting hit by those stupid upp-bs. If you are not in the right spacing position in time (so you can just float and then do dair) I do recommend to press out the dair early and move slightly backwards. I do think the most times I failed with the dair (in the begining at least) was because I was to close to the edge and did not had enough time to take a correct standing position. I would not be surprised if this is a main key for other Peaches too.

Another thing that can happen many times is that if you do a lot of dairs in a row as a result of the other player using smash-DI down to prevent from getting hit by the nair you usually move a bit more forward. Not because the moves push you forward but because you either

1: Have perfect spacing on the dair and wanna make sure the Nair hits (so you move forward)
2: You accidently move a bit forward after doing a lot of dairs in a row.

Bair: The reward for this one can me higher but it's also much worse overall. Bair do not cover a sweet spoted upp-b which makes this move way worse if spacies are coming from below. If someone is straight under the edge at BF bair is still a pretty solid option cause they can't really sweetspot (and if they can you just take the edge instead). I also did use it when I had a feeling they would not really go for the sweet spot so a dair is not necessary.

Overall dair is 10 times better so use that one in pretty much all cases.

 

[OliClutch117]

I have problems with my Dair spacing do I fix this just by playing more with it or is there a trick to use?

 

[Nintendude]

That's very helpful Armada, thanks!
If you don't mind taking another question, do you think you could talk a little about intercepting people with Uair? I'd say that's the biggest thing that you do far better than every other Peach. You just seem to know all of the situations where a spacie (particularly Fox) will attempt a full jump.

 

[Purpletuce]

Yeah, a FAQ would be nice. The dash you have to use to chase full di away is shorter than you would think. Input it quickly. The only guide currently on the peach boards really addresses super simply things like L-cancels.

 

[K@$h]

i agree maybe its time for a better or more advanced guide would be nice, but i think a FAQ would be awesome and more beneficial.

 

[Purpletuce]

Truth about the FAQ. . . also, are Peach dittos supposed to be fun? I haven't played them before, but I can't intuitively think if they would be fun. They seem like they would be awkward.

 

[AozoraX]

A 2013 FAQ would be pretty nice, provided that anything NEW has come up in the matchups that seem to work...
And Peach dittos I think are the best way to learn how you fare versus someone else's playstyle. But then it's the most tedious because you can get hit by your mirror move and feel bad.
Feelsbadman.jpg

 

[Babatunde]

^ #THEworstfeeling

 

[Armada]

That's very helpful Armada, thanks!
If you don't mind taking another question, do you think you could talk a little about intercepting people with Uair? I'd say that's the biggest thing that you do far better than every other Peach. You just seem to know all of the situations where a spacie (particularly Fox) will attempt a full jump.

1: After fair on shield every Fox jumps at least kinda often. This is because they are afraid of getting hit so they don't want to just stay there with a shield (Afraid of grab or d-smash). So after a FC-fair on shield jump kinda often with a uair (or nair if they are at killing %). This is the biggest thing I would say.

2: If you have someone confined around the ledge jumps OOS is something A LOT of people use pretty often. Especially f you stay grounded. Most players also have kind of the same timing when they act with jumps OOS etc so try to pay attention to that (I would say they don't wait that long if they end up jumping OOS). So just jump to them with a uair/nair (depending on combo/kill %) is super good.

3: This one is maybe the hardest one to actually preform well and I don't have a generall rule for it or something but that is when someone is using plattforms. Everything that goes up eventually comes down. So I try to put myself in safe positions but still cover space above me with u-air. This one Im not entierly sure how to explain so will maybe come back with that in a later post or something.

 

[K@$h]

Ok so the other day i was playing my buddy who mains a sheik. At my high school we a trying to organize a little tourney for us all, so ive been praticing on and off for this. so when im playing my buddy in the middle of i i start realizing ive stopped doing all the AT's (besides WD) that ive been trying to incoporate into my game. Do you guys have any advice for avoiding this?

 

[AozoraX]

1: After fair on shield every Fox jumps at least kinda often. This is because they are afraid of getting hit so they don't want to just stay there with a shield (Afraid of grab or d-smash). So after a FC-fair on shield jump kinda often with a uair (or nair if they are at killing %). This is the biggest thing I would say.

2: If you have someone confined around the ledge jumps OOS is something A LOT of people use pretty often. Especially f you stay grounded. Most players also have kind of the same timing when they act with jumps OOS etc so try to pay attention to that (I would say they don't wait that long if they end up jumping OOS). So just jump to them with a uair/nair (depending on combo/kill %) is super good.

3: This one is maybe the hardest one to actually preform well and I don't have a generall rule for it or something but that is when someone is using plattforms. Everything that goes up eventually comes down. So I try to put myself in safe positions but still cover space above me with u-air. This one Im not entierly sure how to explain so will maybe come back with that in a later post or something.

I can see why 3 is really hard to pull off. Sheik on a platform is something you're better off just pulling out a Nair to beat out the Fair usually if they're in front. I can't ever get an Uair on a falling Bair Sheik off a plat
long legs sheik

Edit: On dealing with Sheiks, I feel like just saying "**** that ****" when I see a Sheik pull out desparate bairs as a wall out. I hate that.

 

[darkatma]

Dash attack beats out bairs if timed right.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

1: After fair on shield every Fox jumps at least kinda often. This is because they are afraid of getting hit so they don't want to just stay there with a shield (Afraid of grab or d-smash). So after a FC-fair on shield jump kinda often with a uair (or nair if they are at killing %). This is the biggest thing I would say.

2: If you have someone confined around the ledge jumps OOS is something A LOT of people use pretty often. Especially f you stay grounded. Most players also have kind of the same timing when they act with jumps OOS etc so try to pay attention to that (I would say they don't wait that long if they end up jumping OOS). So just jump to them with a uair/nair (depending on combo/kill %) is super good.

3: This one is maybe the hardest one to actually preform well and I don't have a generall rule for it or something but that is when someone is using plattforms. Everything that goes up eventually comes down. So I try to put myself in safe positions but still cover space above me with u-air. This one Im not entierly sure how to explain so will maybe come back with that in a later post or something.

This is so well put. thank you very much

Armada how do you WD back consistently without floating? I feel I need to master it in order to move around Sheik. To that point:
Where/when do I float vs Sheik? What do I do on the ground?
What do I do vs spacies when they have the lead? Specifically when that happens and they stop approaching.
Thanks again <3

 

[kalamazhu]

@irish
You just have to jump and airdodge down and back just make sure ur not holding down while pressing jump

 

[Silly Kyle]

WD back is ez mode lol

 

[The Irish Mafia]

i tend to do the run forward- wd back thing and I do a half-circle from forward to downback, so the timing for hitting jump is really difficult as I have to discern between a 45 degree angle and slightly higher.
Silly Kyle, that doesn't help at all. You're so silly.

 

[john!]

release the jump button faster and you should be fine

 

[Babatunde]

Peach's WD is so hard :;(
LIke one of the hardest to master i swear.

 

[Strong Badam]

if you learned how to wavedash incorrectly yeah it's pretty tough

 

[Babatunde]

Wavedash incorrectly?
What do you mean?

 

[Xyzz]

Probably he's referring to "place the controlstick any frame before hitting the air dodge. Press jump and a certain number of frames later the airdodge", aka what every other character gets away with

Dunno, I "mained" Samus for about 5 hours then switched to Peach. So when I started to learn ATs, I learned them with Peach. For me there isn't any difference between Peach's wave dash and the one of the other characters who lack the float, because I wavedash just the same with them as well :D
I do however recall being profoundly mad for having to work extra hard with my wave dash training (:

 

[Purpletuce]

If you hold the joystick at an angle prematurely it probably makes it hard for you to WD OoS as well. Learn it, it'll pay off in the long run.

 

[Xyzz]

Haha when I hear Yoshi players talking about WD OOS, I can't help but imagine them thinking "yeah, I'm happy for you. Not jealous at all... not at all.... AGRHARGHARGH" :D

 

[KirbyKaze]

There are Yoshi players?

 

[Xyzz]

Some people never learn, man

There's even a Yoshi/Falco dual main living within walking distance from me (although he never plays Yoshi against my Peach... I wonder why... :D)

 

[Purpletuce]

I waveland/WD oos all the time with Yoshi. It just is harder(but better). Shield drop -> instant waveland has no shield stun and is as wast as WD OOS, and parry WD oos has no hitlag OR shieldstun. Yoshi just has the problem that the shield drop can only be done on platforms and the parry gets punished by multihit/delayed attacks.

Also, there is a Peach on Oregon's PR who I beat with Yoshi.

KK, you know there are Yoshi players, you even complemented one of them (Angel) remember?