VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Heero Yuy]

Since I only picked up Peach recently, I decided to test my skill with her by sparring with my friend - perhaps the best Marth user in my town. Bad idea! Dx We had a short match (out of 7) and ended up losing 2-4... Welp, I'm not really sure if that's good for a Peach newbie or mediocre. Though I thought I'd do much better than that after mastering L-cancelling, wavedashing (though I don't really use it), and DI.

I'd just like to know that how do Armada and Mikael do it (vs. Mew2King and Ken respectively)? Since my friend has an aggressive Marth, he tends to run all over the stage with his aerials using Peach's floaty disadvantage, particularly the Fair. I also tried camping a little more, but Marth's speed overcame that and thus he dashed into me whenever I landed on the ground after recovering from a fall onto the stage.

I'll probably answer my own question by saying this, but my hugest flaw was I was approaching him too much. The only big hits I got on him were when I was floating and then...BOOM! Nair, Bair, and Fair galore.

I read the VaNz thread and learned that my friend made use of almost every con, particularly the Utilt that cripped me. While I can switch to my sub/original main Link to counterpick, I just wanna know what to do again in a scenario like this. What should I do next time to stand a better chance against him?

(P.S. Sorry for writing a novel! D: )

 

[Xyzz]

You can usually live to a pretty high percentage so make use of that. Marth has a easy time getting Peach to medium percents, but he's really bad at finishing her off, unless of course you jump blindly into f smash tippers or something. Make sure to avoid that.
Well, if you don't use wave dashes you should practice seeing the opportunities to wd back avoid some approaches and counter attack them for whiffing; I think that is especially helpful against aggressive players, because well... they tend to want to hit you instead of waiting for a good opportunity where it's hard for you to move out of the way. Also some basic application of WD for Peach is to dash towards your opponent and WD back before getting into his actual range... maybe you can get him to do something punishable, and at least your dash attacks will be less obvious
For approaching Marth turnips are really helpful so practice jump > turnip toss > fc aerial.

 

[Heero Yuy]

For approaching Marth turnips are really helpful so practice jump > turnip toss > fc aerial.

^ Yep, I practice this a lot and in fact did this a lot in our match. He still put me at a huge disadvantage overall due to his outstanding mobility.

I'll probably try to incorporate more wavedashing in my playstyle now. Part of the reason I don't do it is because Peach has the worst traction in the game, thus I didn't think it'd be useful. I'll reconsider that now.

Thanks Xyzz!

 

[Bing]

So, I was about to comment here solely for the reason that I figured that WingZero was my tag on here, then I remembered that this is the only forum I use that I Havent made the switch yet, so now this seems kind of pointless...

Speaking of Vidjo Drop though, Niko_K dropped a Stitch on me the other day. Good times.

 

[weon - X]

prepare to meet the sword *****zzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Anand]

It's just I've seen precisely ONE instance of a Peach doing several peach bombers into a successful recovery, and I watch pretty much all Peach matches I can get my hands on

It might have its uses, but it just seems so situational that I'd rather spend the time practicing other things that are more important.

I saw DoH use a single Peach Bomber to recover vs PewPewU earlier today (watching their singles set from Apex 2013), although I didn't rewind or watch very closely, so I'm not sure how useful it actually was. I also saw him do an up-air kill from recovering, although it wasn't as hilarious as the one I saw on Mahone at HyperPhoenix (unrecorded friendlies), haha.

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's just I've seen precisely ONE instance of a Peach doing several peach bombers into a successful recovery, and I watch pretty much all Peach matches I can get my hands on

Using it defensively is overrated but its benefit deals more with how much lower you can go on FD and YS to gimp people.

 

[MacD]

it's also useful in teams to stall that extra second

being able to bomber recover is something that every peach should know how to do. especially since it should take all of 2 minutes to master

 

[Heero Yuy]

I saw DoH use a single Peach Bomber to recover vs PewPewU earlier today (watching their singles set from Apex 2013)...I also saw him do an up-air kill from recovering, although it wasn't as hilarious as the one I saw on Mahone at HyperPhoenix (unrecorded friendlies), haha.

Funny, because I'm watching the exact same video (to observe how DoH would handle a Marth) and I see both instances of what you're talking about now. o.O

 

[JJTheJetPlane]

~snip~

Because you are mixing it up. A jump gets beaten out by a sh/fc nair/uair.

Peach has a lot of mixups on sheilds after an fc aerial

jab
d-smash
fc nair
grab
uair
d-tilt
do nothing
spot dodge

and some of these can be combo'd with each other (jab to grab for example).

Not all of these are equally effective, but they can all be useful if you predicting your opponent well. Using all of these will help keep you unpredictable.

 

[Excel_Zero]

Can someone teach me how to play Peach?

 

[Xyzz]

If it wasn't too much work I'd put in a video of somebody pressing the c - stick down.
You need to be a little more specific about what information you're looking for.

@peach-bombers: I don't think you generally need to go down that far for gimps with Peach, but I'll readily agree that this would be the most worthwhile application... I guess, I won't believe in it until I've seen it happen a few times though :D

 

[DoH]

Won a tournament today. Should have some vids up of me vs a pretty solid falcon for y'all

 

[Ryobeat]

SOMEONE HELP. lol, how do I recover vs Marth? I kept air dodging on, and I knew he read it, then I thought " WHAT ELSE DO I DO?!"

 

[DoH]

Recover high duhhh

 

[Xyzz]

SOMEONE HELP. lol, how do I recover vs Marth? I kept air dodging on, and I knew he read it, then I thought " WHAT ELSE DO I DO?!"

fair's a decent mix up. If he think you'll airdodge, he can't efficiently defend against a crown to the face.
Or just vary the timing. If you want to do something in melee but suspect him to know it... just do it in a different timing.
Also, discredit everything I write, the only reason I don't have horrible spelling fails is because opera has a built in spell-check, and correcting stuff underlined in red is still working at alcohol levels >2 per mill :x

 

[JJTheJetPlane]

Recover high duhhh

^^^^^
This.

If you go to the edge you are in a very bad position and a good Marth will not let you back on.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Congrats DoH!

SOMEONE HELP. lol, how do I recover vs Marth? I kept air dodging on, and I knew he read it, then I thought " WHAT ELSE DO I DO?!"

I would also play a little mind game with the parasol. Meaning, you have to recover from a very high elevation and start your way from there on the way down. If you outsmart him with your air mobility, you'll reach the ground safely. :D

Also, that awkward moment when you play Brawl with your friends and your Brawl Peach is arguably as good as your Melee one...

 

[DoH]

http://www.youtube.com/user/hotcashmelee

WF and GFs are from this weekend...I had a fever so I was making some weird choices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-wGSKsFn5Q

This is from the week before.

Also here's my set with Redd that i played like a moron in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M92NBivPBB0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-wGSKsFn5Q

 

[Medz!]

The last link is versus wenbo's falcon too.

 

[VA]

this might be something everyone knows/does but i only just realised it works.

is there a distance in some MUs where DA/grab becomes a really horrible mix up? your opponent has to guess which you'll do and it's quiet easy to be ambiguous with which you'll do and get a grab? it's quite close and during a forward dash which u either do late DA or wdash > grab.

idk it seems rly good to me.

FYI i make a sexi peach

 

[Armada]

Double jump cancel OOS into d-smash etc is something Peaches should start using. (on moves with enough lag like Fox uppsmash for example)

I was doing it for a bit in friendlis before I retire but I didn't use it much in tournament matches so I don't know if anyone have seen me use it.

Some people maybe already have been thinking about it but I don't think I have seen anyone use it so I just felt for pointing that out in case someone would like to know.

 

[knightpraetor]

thanks a lot armada. that does sound better than nair out of float at most percents

 

[ShroudedOne]

I usually prefer FC nair OOS > dsmash (if they're too low to start a CG on). Otherwise, I grab (or FC nair > grab if I want a CG).

I'll experiment with DJ OOS into downsmash and see what I get, but it sounds iffy to me for some reason.

 

[knightpraetor]

nair may hit them too far away, so it's good to be able to just land quickly and dsmash sometimes

 

[Ryobeat]

Double jump cancel OOS into d-smash etc is something Peaches should start using. (on moves with enough lag like Fox uppsmash for example)

I was doing it for a bit in friendlis before I retire but I didn't use it much in tournament matches so I don't know if anyone have seen me use it.

Some people maybe already have been thinking about it but I don't think I have seen anyone use it so I just felt for pointing that out in case someone would like to know.

DAMN. I was turned down when I this to be useful. Im gonna look into it.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Guys, I'm new to Melee. What should I practice to learn Peach at a tournament level? I used to main this character before Brawl, but I wasn't very good at the time, and the metagame has since changed from 08' Tips anyone?

 

[Heero Yuy]

I don't really seem to understand the double jump cancelling very well. I feel like I've been doing it a lot already, since I seem to see my Peach fall straight towards the ground after doing an aerial. May somebody bottom-line it, please? Thanks in advance!

 

[Wake]

KK has talked about some uses it might have in the past.

 

[Ryobeat]

KK has talked about some uses it might have in the past.

He's the one who told me no D:

 

[Armada]

I usually prefer FC nair OOS > dsmash (if they're too low to start a CG on). Otherwise, I grab (or FC nair > grab if I want a CG).

I'll experiment with DJ OOS into downsmash and see what I get, but it sounds iffy to me for some reason.

With the fact that people more and more are using CC tech as a tool to get away from situations faster (like tech Peach nair on the ground so she has no more punish game) D-smash will be REALLY good cause they will use CC to get that tech in the first place.

But yeah it's not something that will be used every single match or anything. Just felt for posting the idea cause it has a few situations it can be used kinda good in.

 

[Ryobeat]

With the fact that people more and more are using CC tech as a tool to get away from situations faster (like tech Peach nair on the ground so she has no more punish game) D-smash will be REALLY good cause they will use CC to get that tech in the first place.

But yeah it's not something that will be used every single match or anything. Just felt for posting the idea cause it has a few situations it can be used kinda good in.

Since you retired, you should educate the peach boards<3

 

[john!]

armada should live on a distant swedish mountaintop and offer advice/friendlies to smashers brave enough to venture there

also

i don't always use DJC, but when i do, it's bair

because DJC is useful for changing your momentum and usually your jump momentum is forward... so sometimes you want to go backwards really fast and hit em

 

[MacD]

With the fact that people more and more are using CC tech as a tool to get away from situations faster (like tech Peach nair on the ground so she has no more punish game) D-smash will be REALLY good cause they will use CC to get that tech in the first place.

But yeah it's not something that will be used every single match or anything. Just felt for posting the idea cause it has a few situations it can be used kinda good in.

we went over this a few times. in the end the answer we told the masses was "it's so impractical that it really isn't something you should be learning"

cause you guys don't need to focus on learning how to DJC OOS Dsmash for the 2 times a month you might actually use it. you need to work on the rest of your tech skill and execution. like seriously, that is what is the hardest thing for me coming back. i know i should be able to punish this, space that, pressure like this, etc. problem is i can't because i don't have all the timings down anymore.

 

[Ryobeat]

I wanna talk about this match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M92NBivPBB0 Im gonna do it tomorrow, but if anyone wants to throw in there 2 cents, please do!

 

[john!]

^ fox can be hit out of his side-b from ledge, right? DoH never punished that.

 

[DoH]

If they aim it at your head you have to do something like bair instead of nair, which you have to predict instead of do it on reflex

 

[ChivalRuse]

Or you can just roll in toward the stage and punish the illusion like that. (Armada does this sometimes I believe)

 

[Heero Yuy]

Day 1 of Hardcore Execution Training Complete.

Peach's first jump seems to be rather high. It's pretty difficult to SHFFL the Nair because of that attribute of hers.

 

[DoH]

Why the **** would you shuffle