VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[VA]

"You're more difficult to fight than Armada" - hungrybox to me

i remember this crappy puff got mccain to 1 stock in bracket at apex. i reverse 4 stocked him after getting rested twice then 3 stocked him. most puff's are really dumb and bad at the peach MU. u guys just have a couple decent ones. i think i'd beat darc though

not that i care anymore i got a bf and don't really play smash

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

"You're more difficult to fight than Armada" - hungrybox to me

And hbox told me the same thing about u. So teach us your secrets

 

[ShroudedOne]

I love fighting Puff. I think I have a whole system down for fighting her. But Puffs don't exist, so I don't know how good it is (also, most Puffs suck at Peach really hard, and let us out of shield them a lot more than we should be able to).

I'm also really bad at Fox/Puff, so I have no choice but to stick with my main.

I thought Vwins did ok. He just got outclassed because Hbox is a better player, imo. Especially third game, I didn't feel like the MU was unwinnable, just that Hbox is better.

Again, we just have to fight her differently than we fight others (which could be why most Peaches suck vs her?) Our bair ***** her, and double jumping seems really good vs her (sparingly).

 

[john!]

if you stick to the basics with fox and don't mess up your tech skill, he is really good vs. puff. i will almost never go peach anymore vs. puff in tournament.

 

[Prince_Abu]

yeah losing to abu is probably the biggest skill difference upset I've ever heard of

dark atma ur hurting my feelings!!!!

 

[Wake]

are we all just terrible at fighting puff

or is puff really that broken??

OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

I really hope it's just the first one.


Also, yeah I've heard Hbox say something similar about DoH too.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I also think Puff sucks, and loses to everyone (in the top eight) except for us, Sheik, and maybe Falcon. So she better not turn out to be broken.

 

[Cia]

yeah losing to abu is probably the biggest skill difference upset I've ever heard of

LOL. Well there are many reasons for that. One thing u gotta understand is in Ohio, I don't get the same practice that I used to get in NY. On average, I play about twice a month. (and sometimes not at all.)

He may have even been a better player than myself on that day Though I will admit hat was like.. the worst day of my life.

"You're more difficult to fight than Armada" - hungrybox to me

Yes we all know how hungrybox likes to exaggerate in the moment. He's told me that at some point or another.. lol. But I know from first hand experience that you need work in the puff matchup

But if you've really gotten better at it, link us some vids of you trashing a "respected" puff player. I'd love to see how you deal with Puff's zoning game.

 

[Prince_Abu]

ya i was playing pretty well that day and peach is actually my best matchup cus i play kalamazhu all the time
i definitely think peach puff is no worse than 60-40 peaches best bet i think is to spam turnips 24/7 and try to get hits off them like fair or something
if puff misses a rest use turnip to up or down smash if u can

 

[DoH]

Looks like you need help with the Peach matchup vanz

 

[Wake]

bahahaha, with a picture too! That's just too good.

 

[MacD]

my main problem is i am basically style countered by puff

i never had the motivation to just sit back and play it like you are supposed to, and you can't just charge in and be an idiot like i can against everyone else except sheik/falcon

if i ever forced myself to take the time and care vs puff, i could do well. but alas, i don't play this game anymore so i don't have to care yeeeeeeeeeeee

time to start FF X if dave ever freaking wakes up. i swear he's turning into connor. damn lazy bums i live with

 

[VA]

Looks like you need help with the Peach matchup vanz

lol DoH man, you're too funny.

 

[WIDL]

I don't really dislike the Puff matchup. I generally play way more on point technically (because I'm scared of getting rested) and I also play faster. I'm stronger at the matchup with Peach, than I am with Fox (my secondary).

Then again, I've only really played ONE pro Puff player, I never meet Puffs in tourneys, lol.

 

[Cia]

Looks like you need help with the Peach matchup vanz

ROFLLLLLL. that was like 1 game.

gaaaaaaaah $20.00 my puff ur peach.

legggo.

hahahaha. where did u even get that pic?!

 

[DoH]

That was most of our games.

Let's goez

It was on FB

 

[darkatma]

LOLLLL that's so funny

sorry abu, i know you're good ^.-

 

[shadrach kabango]

When anyone goes to those lengths to get away from something they see as toxic, I always call it out.

Uninstalling LoL, cancelling your WoW subscription, asking to be banned on a forum - these are all laughable things to me that just seem so trivial.

If you cant distance yourself from something you think is toxic (the fact that you acknowledge its not good for you at the time is already a step forward) then taking artificial means to get rid of it is frankly sad and more importantly wont work. It may give you a moments reprieve, but the likelihood of it happening again is still present.

It wasnt a cry for attention, I see that (I actually didnt think it was in your case but I often associate it with that based on past experiences) but my above statement still stands. Maybe its because I've never been in the situation before (where I KNOW something isnt good for me and I cant personally cut it out) which is why I simply dont get it.

Alan knows his stuff. Agreed 100%. I feel the same way about people who want to quit smoking but always relapse.

Actually it's more about your guys' ignorance and intolerance. Both of you are judging someone else because they are not the same as you.

That's not surprising because Americans are woefully ignorant about how addiction works, what it is and what an addictive personality is.

 

[ShroudedOne]

MacD is completely spot on, I realized. I'm never approaching Sheik again.

What Peaches are notable for being good vs Sheik, by the way? (besides Armada)

 

[Wake]

I'm glad you're starting to realize the evil that is Sheik.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I can't believe that I was once naive enough to say that Marth was more of a problem than Sheik. -__-

 

[Wake]

Yes I remember that little discussion a few months ago.

 

[Rosedemon]

Actually it's more about your guys' ignorance and intolerance. Both of you are judging someone else because they are not the same as you.

That's not surprising because Americans are woefully ignorant about how addiction works, what it is and what an addictive personality is.

Sorry, cant hear you over my freedom

 

[Cia]

..

why is that single ladies eagle so flat chested?

D:

 

[ConnorTheKid]

i remember this crappy puff got mccain to 1 stock in bracket at apex. i reverse 4 stocked him after getting rested twice then 3 stocked him. most puff's are really dumb and bad at the peach MU. u guys just have a couple decent ones. i think i'd beat darc though

not that i care anymore i got a bf and don't really play smash

it's like your jerking yourself off with this post

quit feeling yourself LOL

 

[Rosedemon]

..

why is that single ladies eagle so flat chested?

D:

Why are you pretending to care?

;D

 

[Cia]

And no offense VA, but Darc would wreck you.

It wouldn't be pretty.

 

[BladeWise]

I have some vids I'd like critiqued, if you guys are interested.
They are from the recent Washington tournament. It's been me vs Silent Wolf for the past year in Grand Finals, and the past few months, I've been winning. However, he still usually takes me to game 5 in at least one of the sets, and his Falco really gives me fits.

I know that my offstage turnip game against spacies needs work.
I miss a handful of edgeguard opportunities, but who doesn't?

Bladewise vs Silent Wolf
Winner's Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7osURNOuFQ&feature=plcp

GF set 1 (It starts off pretty slowly, but it picks up quickly)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD_H3uEZCSs&feature=plcp

GF set 2 (Much quicker set)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAdVfD1aXLA&feature=plcp

and I give full credit to Vanz for the combo at 8:05 in GF set 2.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

MacD is completely spot on, I realized. I'm never approaching Sheik again.

What Peaches are notable for being good vs Sheik, by the way? (besides Armada)

I am pretty good vs sheik, i guess i dont have any way to prove it to u but i have a quote from reno saying my peach gets the job done (thats not the quote i was just paraphrasing). Also the one time i played m2k i got it down to 1 stock (it was a friendly so i know it doesnt mean anything).

 

[VA]

it's like your jerking yourself off with this post

quit feeling yourself LOL

What's wrong with jerking myself off?

And no offense VA, but Darc would wreck you.

It wouldn't be pretty.

Meh, ur probably right.

 

[darkatma]

I am pretty good vs sheik, i guess i dont have any way to prove it to u but i have a quote from reno saying my peach gets the job done (thats not the quote i was just paraphrasing). Also the one time i played m2k i got it down to 1 stock (it was a friendly so i know it doesnt mean anything).

I'd love to MM you with my sheik =]

ALSO they finally uploaded my full set asldhaksjdhflkdsahf;ksadlgl;s <3 <3 <3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_-lis05Okw

GOD I blowww, ugliest peach that gets the job done ever LOL


@Bladewise: I really enjoyed those matches, and I've noticed you beating SW recently. I like that you've implemented a lot of AR like stuff in your game, and added some nice combos of your own. Keep it up haha, definitely keeping you on the radar of good peaches to watch.

Are you coming to Rule 6?

 

[knightpraetor]

anyone care to expand on how they think bair should be used against puff or what it is good for? just curious. i think i would use bair for the defense and extra mobility and just use nair/fair when approaching, though i'd mostly just approach with turnips at neutral or when jiggs is in landing lag.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I'd love to MM you with my sheik =]

Well atm i plan on going to the next rom, and apex 2013. I know u r west coast but if you end up going to ether of those i'm down for a mm

 

[Cia]

Why are you pretending to care?

;D

Boobs are a VERY serious matter.

 

[ShroudedOne]

anyone care to expand on how they think bair should be used against puff or what it is good for? just curious. i think i would use bair for the defense and extra mobility and just use nair/fair when approaching, though i'd mostly just approach with turnips at neutral or when jiggs is in landing lag.

Bair is a really quick move, and attacks Puff at a very good angle (it kind of angles up under her), so it's good to throw out after her bair because it'll get her before she can set up another, and the lower knockback will make it more likely that you can connect another bair on her, whereas nair/fair will either send her too far, or be too slow. You're right, bair is mainly a defensive move, used to fend off against her bairs/engage her in fights for stage control/interrupt her movement paths (kind of). Reverse bair/soft bair might have combo potential too, but I haven't looked into the "comboing Puff" realm that much.

Approaching with nair doesn't really appeal to me because of it's lack of range. I'd use it more as a defense against tomahawks/to get under her if she's trying to go far above me. Either approach her with fair (risky without a turnip but still viable), dash attack (only when she's in the air, and not under 30), or turnip > aerial.

I hope this gives you some answer.

==

Darkatma, oh my gosh. You've got to give me more of your vs Fox tips. Including SDI - what are the steps to SDI'ing Fox's uair? You were talking about it a while back, but I'd like a bit more detail on the inputs (I know to DI the throw, but I've been terrible at timing my SDI, especially in the right direction).

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

@shrouded http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217426

Also as atma said if u di correctly u can jump away b4 fox can upair u

 

[ShroudedOne]

I know about that thread, gosh darn it. I've read it like 90 times.

Guess I'm reading it again.

 

[Xyzz]

Reverse bair/soft bair might have combo potential too, but I haven't looked into the "comboing Puff" realm that much.

Darkatma, oh my gosh. You've got to give me more of your vs Fox tips. Including SDI - what are the steps to SDI'ing Fox's uair? You were talking about it a while back, but I'd like a bit more detail on the inputs (I know to DI the throw, but I've been terrible at timing my SDI, especially in the right direction).

@Comboing Puff: there's not much to look at, I hear

@Fox upair: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6430241&postcount=1 is still teh best :D
Concerning specifically the SDI part: You can kinda wiggle the control stick around the general direction you want to SDI in, since you don't actually have to move from neutral position, but rather every one of those 1/8th circle movements would result in a sdi input, if it happens during the hitlag... I usually just try to time it though since I am far better with that than rapid finger movement stuff (:

 

[BladeWise]

Fox up-throw -> up-air only hits me when I'm truly caught offguard, probably less than 10% of the time. It's pretty easy to DI away or out of it. Then I mash diagonal, jump, and airdodge at the proper time. If I'm not in a good position to airdodge, then I won't, of course.

 

[darkatma]

Fox up-throw -> up-air only hits me when I'm truly caught offguard, probably less than 10% of the time. It's pretty easy to DI away or out of it. Then I mash diagonal, jump, and airdodge at the proper time. If I'm not in a good position to airdodge, then I won't, of course.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure hitting upthrow->upair is at least as hard for fox as fox vs jiggs, if not harder. Peach can almost always get out if she DI's away..

@shrouded, as for SDI, practice a lot on upthrow-upair (have a friend help you maybe), I think I do slightly up and left or up and right. Apply the same thing to drills, except full left or full right does better on the ground. Generally if you can get out of the drill, it's a free nair out of shield, because foxes have it ingrained in their heads to drill shine->wavedash past, and the wavedash past part almost always gets them hit by nair. Sometimes I'll even turn around before shielding to make that happen more easily (after I smash DI)

Around mid percents, ask a good fox to upthrow-upair you and see if you can DI the throw while in your shield, then double jump->float away in time. In my set with SFAT, near the end I purposely let myself get grabbed a few extra times to demonstrate the jump->float out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_-lis05Okw#t=7m11s
I do it twice over here

On an unrelated note, here's the jumping out when expecting a shine thing that I mentioned a little while ago. I was obviously trying to nair out of shield, but since he shined me and I was in the air, I knew I could shield his upsmash in time. If I had tried to shieldgrab, I would've gotten pooped on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_-lis05Okw#t=6m43s

Yeah.. and if I had to critique myself, I'd say my combo execution game is really lacking.. there were many upairs I wanted to do that turned into panic bairs, and my edgeguarding kinda blew. But sometimes having a good defense is enough.