VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Palpi]

Everyone tells me I don't downsmash enough...maybe I am doing it right haha

 

[King5280]

you're in the peach thread man, that matchup is heavily in _ favor

touche. -_-

midwest daisy all day.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

does ryan = money? or someone else?

i need to play your peach joe!

and yes quaz, we are very stubborn. all 4 of us

edit: dsmash is a good move and always will be. people have learned to counter it, and you can't spam cc dsmash against any competent players, but it still does its job extremely well if you know when to use it.

no one is saying d-smash isn't a good move. we are just saying its not as amazing as some people think. d-smash is a good move and always will be but some people do overrate it

note: had a solid bday. but its monday so it had to end early, since people have work and things to do tomorrow. so yea monday is kinda the worst day to have a bday

 

[King5280]

dsmash<nair for sure

 

[VA]

nair > grab on hit @ low %s I love you

 

[The Irish Mafia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEkZhXY4XiM

Critique and the like is welcome
this is my GFs set vs arcnatural from a pretty small tournament this last week
I'm not gonna say I sandbagged the first set but I didn't exactly have my gameface on, set 2 begins at 15:00 is if you're looking to watch as little as possible, that's where you'd wanna start
i kinda go off on him about once a match, there are some pretty wonky combos

 

[john!]

^ you hit more upsmashes than every other peach player combined

 

[The Irish Mafia]

rofl, thanks <3
i whiff a few hardcore, though. i remember feeling like i had a positive good usmash/bad usmash ratio in this set, most of the ones i landed really paid off

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^ so i am up to the first cf match b/c its loading.

from what ive seen so far i really like your peach. that being said there r times were u r on a platform and u d-smash hoping he will jump into it, and there r times u just throw out a random d-smash on the ground. I feel u should work on getting rid of that from your game. Also there r times when i feel u get stuck on a platform and i wonder if learning shield dropping might help u in these situations.

I just want to end this again with saying i really like how your peach looks and plays. these r just a couple of things i saw which i thought were worth pointing out

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I've spent a lot of time changing the leniency of my dsmashes. I do throw out a few recklessly that get punished, but for every one of those there's usually one reckless dsmash i throw out that's effective. I think my dash attacks got punished more than anything else in that set.
Also, I ended up sitting in my shield for a while frequently during this set. this was due to a temporary controller malfunction, i just wasn't confident in my wd oos because my r kept sticking.
Thanks again :3

 

[crush]

I reccomend using L for wd oos

 

[ShroudedOne]

8:50

What the hell, Mafia!? I've never seen that before. I'm stealing it. :D

I agree with N.A.G.A.C.E. about getting stuck on platforms. Also...too much spot dodging. They seem very random, and there are times when you would do 2 or 3 back to back, and that's very punishable.

Otherwise, very sexy good job.

 

[Rosedemon]

^ you hit more upsmashes than every other peach player combined

Not to take away from Mafia or anything, but you should really watch/play Mccain more, his Upsmashes are amazing.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ok finished watching, and i dont have much to add. i am confused why u even went cf since imo your peach was clearly better then anything the other guy had. that being said i am sure i dont even need to mention all of the unforced errors u had in that first fd match. did the pressure get to u? or is it b/c of your controller problems. But yea your peach was really nice.

Also whether or not u use up-smash the best or the most does not really matter, i think what should be taken from this is that up-smash in the right situations maybe should be more used by peachs. i mean it does have invincibility on the top of it and is pretty strong.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

thanks crush
LOOOOOL shrouded, there's a little local joke, i use reverse umbrella as a taunt, and then i figured i could use it to grab the ledge too. thanks ;3
lol alan, i was literally gonna type the same exact thing and then my browser crashed

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yeah, MacD is a beat with his upsmashes. I've started to use that move more in general (like friendlies) to see where it fits. It looks like it ***** spacies who love approaching with platforms.

A local joke, Mafia? Okay. I'm still taking it (if I remember). It's probably only good sometimes (I don't know if it's the fastest option to the ledge), but it looks cute.

 

[MacD]

Not to take away from Mafia or anything, but you should really watch/play Mccain more, his Upsmashes are amazing.

awwwwwwwwwww

you're too kinda

 

[Rosedemon]

Last time I found a niche for upsmash in my game was when I was getting dominated by Falcon's shield pressure. I just did a random "thissortafeelsrightbutmightbewrong" upsmash after a knee on my shield, and it caught the jump.

I havent really experimented with it much after that, but thats a problem with me. I dont really try new things, I just get stuck in my comfort zone (unless its teams where im always looking to improve)

Edit: Mccain = BEST. SIG. EVER.

 

[baka4moé]

congrats on winning that tourney mafia! i've yet to watch the whole set cuz ive been busy, but i'll be sure to!

 

[VA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEkZhXY4XiM

Critique and the like is welcome
this is my GFs set vs arcnatural from a pretty small tournament this last week
I'm not gonna say I sandbagged the first set but I didn't exactly have my gameface on, set 2 begins at 15:00 is if you're looking to watch as little as possible, that's where you'd wanna start
i kinda go off on him about once a match, there are some pretty wonky combos

Since when do you play white?

I AM WHITE PEACH

p.s. congrats on winning

 

[thesage]

Mafia get better at using platforms in your playstyle. They ***** you harder than anything.

Also try not to get hit so much. A better Fox player can kill you from just landing a hit and then doing wtfcombos.

Very good followups and combos.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Baka: thanks man :3
VA: <3 my system rejected green peach, mostly due to her shoes
Sage: Very true. You think it's more of a matter of mobility or comfort? What should I be changing?

 

[thesage]

Try not to stay on them so long. I'll write more later.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Guys...

Falco's lasers are really problematic. I mean...really. Like we can float over them, but he has some options for attacking us out of float. And I seem to not be able to rely on my power-shielding anymore, and I don't know how to practice that. Tips?

Also, Falco advice of any kind would be helpful. My bane at the moment is patient Falco. A Falco that thinks, and isn't prone to mindless spacie aggression is very hard to crack.

Also, KirbyKaze still owes me a write-up...just as a soft reminder.

 

[EPsilon933]

Falco's combo/gimp fodder, it's getting opportunities to hit him is what makes it difficult. When you hit Falco, don't let him get back up on his feet and start lasering you

If you're getting hit by lasers, let them hit you. To start floating over lasers, let a laser hit you and then right after that full jump float. You can not rush this. Powershielding is too inconsistent to rely on

As for what to do when you float, make direct approaches only up to half as often as you float. Her float is slow which isn't that good. 1 point of floating is to get Falco to stop lasering. You can safely return to the ground when he's not. Not approaching while floating is trying to make him make the 1st move

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I base a lot of my peach game on forcing an approach, predicting it and trading or stuffing it. A lot of my game looks like im attacking but im really just looking for trades. Like in ur example vs falco i'd probably float and finger that threatening spacing. When I think falco will jump to attack I might do a fair (without falling) using the end of the swing to slap him in the head. Or dair in order to get hit by a laser and then fall on him with a nair lol

 

[baka4moé]

Shrouded the advice that comes to mind is that you really need to punish falco hard after getting that first hit in. Wd back is perfect when u see falco do an aerial--i try to space myself so that if i wd back his dair will miss, and if he uses any other aerial u can cc dsmash it to a techchase to something. As for lasers, u should know that height that avoids the lasers and the proper distance that avoids aerials; maybe try watching some vids of top peaches to see how they space. idk hope that helps

btw by punish hard i dont just mean you should get a **** ton of damage and/or take a stock off one u hit them, if you screw up u should at least still try to maintain stage control, and i (for instance) try to do this by "aggressively positioning" myself, if that makes any sense lol

 

[ShroudedOne]

Falco's combo/gimp fodder, it's getting opportunities to hit him is what makes it difficult. When you hit Falco, don't let him get back up on his feet and start lasering you

If you're getting hit by lasers, let them hit you. To start floating over lasers, let a laser hit you and then right after that full jump float. You can not rush this. Powershielding is too inconsistent to rely on

As for what to do when you float, make direct approaches only up to half as often as you float. Her float is slow which isn't that good. 1 point of floating is to get Falco to stop lasering. You can safely return to the ground when he's not. Not approaching while floating is trying to make him make the 1st move

I think that I'd like to able to powershield every now and then, but you're right in that it's rather iffy, especially since it's so easy to bait (at least I feel that way). I also agree that we should kind of be forcing Falco to make the first move, but I do want to approach him as well. So I have to find that balance.

I base a lot of my peach game on forcing an approach, predicting it and trading or stuffing it. A lot of my game looks like im attacking but im really just looking for trades. Like in ur example vs falco i'd probably float and finger that threatening spacing. When I think falco will jump to attack I might do a fair (without falling) using the end of the swing to slap him in the head. Or dair in order to get hit by a laser and then fall on him with a nair lol

I always think to myself while I'm floating above him, "If I can't just hit him straight up, trade." I feel like the put him out of position more than me, and I can capitalize on that. But it often seems like whenever I try to go for that, I just get attacked out of it.

Shrouded the advice that comes to mind is that you really need to punish falco hard after getting that first hit in. Wd back is perfect when u see falco do an aerial--i try to space myself so that if i wd back his dair will miss, and if he uses any other aerial u can cc dsmash it to a techchase to something. As for lasers, u should know that height that avoids the lasers and the proper distance that avoids aerials; maybe try watching some vids of top peaches to see how they space. idk hope that helps

btw by punish hard i dont just mean you should get a **** ton of damage and/or take a stock off one u hit them, if you screw up u should at least still try to maintain stage control, and i (for instance) try to do this by "aggressively positioning" myself, if that makes any sense lol

Another facet that I've been trying to incorporate slowly, is that positioning. Placing myself in a good spot from which I can threaten the opponent. But I suck at knowing Falco's zones. I guess I have to learn those too, huh?

What everyone seems to be saying is that once I get a hit on him, ****. Which is what I am starting to realize (but that's really hard). I also have to work on finding a distance from Falco where I can punish SHFFL nair attempts, not get lasered, and not get some other aerial up my dress.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Yo guys i got to play some melee today against the normal people i play against, but then a friend of one of the guys i play with showed up. Now this guy has been getting hyped, he is apparently friends with PC Chris and one of the best players in the group PC plays with. Also i heard just the other day was beating jman's fox (calling it predictable) and i am not sure but i believe i heard it was fox dittos (this is just what i heard and its from a good source but i was obviously not there so idk for sure). So this guy shows up and i played him maybe 7 or 8 times. I beat his CF once and the rest besides two matches (one of which i dont count b/c I cant play on pokemon stadium) were very close 1 stocks. Now i dont believe for a second i could face Jman and beat him or anything and maybe the guy was over hyped idk but i am still feeling pretty good at how i played.

I also realized i need to work on float out of shield a little more, b/c i am pretty good at it but at clutch times i get nervous and spot dodge so I need to fix that. Also I think i do this subconsciously but i want to make sure i am right about this. when a spacey is above u and u wavedash back u can cc any of their aerials besides d-air (which is why u wavedash back) and punish right? Just making sure u can punish b4 u r shined which i am pretty sure u can. (I dont take notes of things i just play with what feels right but i want to know for sure about this)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I feel like peach has the advantage after a trade in more situations than any other top tier character

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yep. I completely agree. I can't exactly explain why in more technical terms, but she just gains so much from the disruption, and seems to put the opponent in a worse position than herself from the trade.

 

[Strong Badam]

it's cuz peach is a *****

 

[Rosedemon]

OH MY GOD, I just realized im in shrouded's sig which means im amazing.

Feel free to always quote everyone Shrouded so I can see myself all the time kthx.

 

[MacD]

OH MY GOD, I just realized im in shrouded's sig which means im amazing.

Feel free to always quote everyone Shrouded so I can see myself all the time kthx.

idk if i completely agree with the logic, but i do agree you are amazing

esoecially after that convo we just had... man i don't even know

there's a small chance you just out tumbler'd DoH

 

[Rosedemon]

That was like the best conversation in the history of everdom.

Just found out I might be able to read Mccain's mind.

 

[MacD]

i like, want to respond, but i don't know how

maybe i should just let you do it for me lol

 

[Rosedemon]

i like, want to respond, but i don't know how

UGH LIKE WHY ARE WE SO ****ING AMAZING?!

Fixteded!!

(Leave it up to me to use ghetto-speak to get past the 10 char limit)

 

[MacD]

i like it, i think i'm just going to have you post for me from now on

makes things easier for me at least, and i'm sure you'll have fun with it

your sig goes so well with that post hahaha

 

[ShroudedOne]

OH MY GOD, I just realized im in shrouded's sig which means im amazing.

Feel free to always quote everyone Shrouded so I can see myself all the time kthx.

You are amazing, even if the logic is kinda weird. You've actually been in my sig for a while now, too. It was something that I thought was important, and so I took it.

 

[john!]

your worth as a human being is directly proportional to the amount of sigs that you appear in