VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Fortress | Sveet]

Sheik probably does the best, but peach has better match-ups going down than marth does.

While the links probably have one of their better high tier match ups against peach, i dont think its anywhere near even. Im not really sure about peach vs doc, but i think she wins it.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I don't know how old this is, but 2 days ago I thought up an opening strategy with Peach: Don't do anything but hold down, then dsmash after you get hit. You can follow up with a pretty nice combo. It works only against an aggressive start (if they don't try to hit you with a spike/meteor which flinches even crouch cancelers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09JN9Wcltu0

Anyone want to comment on another tournament video of me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ8Qr_qomDw

since there are some new posts i will just make a new post to comment on your 1st vid.

it was solid but u do what i and i am sure many other peach's do. u d-smash to much when when it is not a good option, and it got u punished a good deal b/c of it. also I was surprised by all the upB u used and the side B was weird but swag as hell when it hit. Also the way u won the first match was pimp as hell

 

[ShroudedOne]

Lol, I meant I enjoyed the friendlies/company more than the tournament matches. Sorry.

I think that, for me, as Peach, Samus is kinda easy. As long as you take your time, and adapt, she's fine. Powershielding missiles close range is beast. Peach's shield is really good, and shielding in front of Samus is generally good, since you can react to her grab if you anticipate it, and she can't do anything other than that to you. Then just have your way with her once you come out of shield.

I think that Peach/Puff worse than Puff/Sheik. I don't know but how much, but leffen has said that Sheiks just play the matchup kind of wrong, and I can "kind of" see that. I honestly don't know, but whenver I fight Sheik as Puff, I feel like Sheik has more good things against Puff than people give her credit for.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i agree with u that peach v samus is pretty easy as long as u play it smart.

i kinda figured u meant the friendlies were more fun, just wanted to make sure. and yea friendlies at tourneys i often feel r more fun b/c no pressure and u get to play pretty much anyone who is willing.

Lastly imo sheiks should only needle and bair for most of the MU (not like i am a sheik vs jiggs expert). and Leffen might be right but i am really not sure about it. I have never gotten to play any great jiggs but the one i do play I ether win or the matches r really really close. So i dont think the peach jiggs MU is good for peach but i dont think its terrible. I think a major problem some peach's have is that it is the single most boring and tedious MU for peach. its awful to play its like nails on a chalk board.

note: its kinda odd how i am defending this MU now b/c back in 2007 when i first picked up peach i thought the jiggs MU was near un-winnable and just terrible in all possible ways for peach.

Also back to the tourney vids of heart: i was watching u vs knightpraetor and u really do d-smash way to much. I am guessing its a common problem for peachs and something i know i have been woring on to fix with my peach. Also around 6:12 ish on the video u got cf on a platform with up-B then u tried to up-B again when u should of naired. at least thats what i think. also your edge guarding vs sheik needs some work. imo when u r under 100% and u knock sheik far enough away dont grab a turnip just grab the edge and punish wherever the sheik goes when trying to recover

 

[Sinji]

Has any one tried out reverse up b to gain directional advantage?

Here's an example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qiztB2plM7o#t=223s

 

[ShroudedOne]

I've gotten to play a few really good Puffs, and I haven't done terribly. But I don't see what Peach can do against bair, to be honest. Peach's own bair can trade with it, which is good. You can also space fair against it sometimes, which is also good. However, Jigglypuff is just a lot better at setting herself up in that MU than Peach is.

DoH is actually quite good at that MU though, and I see him in here, so he should probably say more about it if he cares enough to. Please.

Sinji, I might be wrong, but I don't think it matters which way you're turned.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Has any one tried out reverse up b to gain directional advantage?

Here's an example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qiztB2plM7o#t=223s

Wait, what advantage was gained from facing offstage? He could have just immediately turned around with a dash and done the exact same thing if he'd done it while facing center-stage.

 

[Rosedemon]

In terms of strictly high/top tier MUs, Peach loses all of them. I don think she goes even with Marth or Falco, Falcon ****s on her, and Jiggs is as in between Shiek and Fox in terms of difficulty.

Going downwards she has some positive MUs,but so does every other character in her spot. I think its just the simple fact that Marth has to really learn every MU in this game, and doesnt really have any special part of his game that he can abuse if he doesnt know the MU (like fox's upthrow -> upair or falco 10billion% combo on everyone)

Edit: Just seented this

@MacD: What's the point then, really?

The point of what? If you're talking about him still coming here, maybe its because he hopes things will change. Not just with the boards, but the community itself. Mccain is so anti-smash right now, and I dont blame him with the **** he has to deal with, but hes such a big contribution to our community that I welcome anything useful he has to or wants to say (AND HES MY BESTIE).

 

[MacD]

nah man, didn't you see light vs *insert low tier here*

just spam 10billion veggies

EDIT: OMG ALAN <333333333 at least you get me

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

@Macd why r u anti smash? (u dont have to answer if u dont want to)

 

[ShroudedOne]

By no means am I telling MacD to not come in here. I respect the information he provides, and I really don't take issue with anything he says, cause he doesn't say things in a condescending way (to me, anyways). He helped me get my feet off the ground with Peach with a critique that he really didn't have to do, which I'm grateful for.

But yeah, what I meant is just that I often don't see the point of posting in a place about how you dislike the place (perhaps that's just me), without aiming to be constructive with it. Yeah, the community is in a state right now that I kind of see (if you could explain more of what your gripe with it is specifically, I would be able to see it better), but I don't think it helps to just be bitter about it (which is what I see from some of your posts, and it might not be the most accurate feel, since I don't see you post that often).

And Alan, my thoughts about Falco always flutter between it being even, and him having a good edge on us. I'm never really sure. But yeah, Falcon ***** this character.

 

[Rosedemon]

I mostly posted that I stopped caring because Sveet felt sad about no one taking notice of his post, and a lot of people seem to take offense when their posts are neglected (which is stupid and childish [but im not saying sveet did this])

 

[MacD]

so i went through my posts cause i thought i answered that already, but i realized i never really did, and since i'm mad at solo queue cause of jerk ***es and dumb *****es (yay league lmao), i'll answer you

it's just not fun for me anymore, i can't find any fun in playing it, it's just not there. i thought going to the EC would help, and it did, but it also made me realize just screw it. playing friendlies with darkdragoon was the most fun i had with smash in sooooooooooo many months (except my IC's vs connor's falco on flatzone, that **** was serious and sooooooo much fun). the tournies just made me super mad after my loses.

well, vs jman i was disappointed in such a simple mistake, not really angry. after losing to tec0, i just wanted to chuck my control across the room as hard as i could. not his fault at all (well maybe cause he played sheik, what a *****!!!) (<3), but i was just disappointed with myself knowing there was no reason for the game to go like that. i've never had that type of anger problems. it's not abnormal to get mad after a loss, especially if you feel you were playing bad, but for the first 4+ years i was playing, never ever felt like throwing my control. recently (like ever since pound 5) i've been getting more and more mad after most every loss. i've never wanted to through my controller, but it just started to be a thought i had. i knew something was wrong when i was getting to that point.

so that tourney kinda sucked for fun after being that mad. after that is when i played dark dragoon and had the most fun i've had in such a long time. then i went to the mass tourney.... and that was just a trainwreck. me and darc had a lot of fun in teams (ergo us going to team at apex) but singles was just a mess. i just couldn't play up to the standard i had for myself (not having my controller cause i left it in NY sucked but even still). after that tourney i was even more mad then before, but at the same time just dead. i went outside and walked around for like 5+ min in the cold dark night just thinking about stuff. i just knew something was wrong. i enjoy the people, and i enjoy the competition, but just something wasn't right.

so i go home with mafia and stay with him for a couple days. i try playing melee with him and well..... it just didn't go well. i felt nothing. i couldn't try. i could not force myself to try to beat him and lost many matches (maybe he could tell you what it was like). ever since then, i have never wanted to play melee once. zhu has forced me to a couple times, and it's just not fun. it's more painful than anything (granted playing zhu is a chore regardless but it's never been just unfun).

and that's where i am now. i love the community, wish i could hang with most everyone on a regular basis, but just can't find the fun in the smash part of it. debating if i wanna enter apex singles. i know i'm going to be rusty and i'm sure i could make it far (not as far as i can and get mad etc), but will it be fun/worth it??

*if you read anything this is the i guess simplest explination*

i really stopped practicing last school year (so about a year ago). i had the drive to practice tech skill/learn a spacie at the beginning of the year, but eventually that died and i just pracited peach stuff. then slowly lost interest in that. then pound happened and i had drive for like 2 days after, then stopped caring again. then i found league of legends over spring break (late march/early april) and that filled the void that was missing from smash. i feel the competition with that game, the drive, and i got to play with friends mostly so it's fun. since then, i only smashed at tournies, did poorly, got mad cause i'm competitive but was out of practice. slowly lost interest, then the above happened, and now i'm here.

i guess the super tl;dr is i found a new game, but everything started long before i even played league

this is like long and disorganized cause i talked to mango and kept checking facebook lol but whatever. hopefully this answers questions

god knows why i even took the time to write all this out. i guess just cause people keep asking, and i tell them basically this. now it's all in one place

 

[MacD]

By no means am I telling MacD to not come in here. I respect the information he provides, and I really don't take issue with anything he says, cause he doesn't say things in a condescending way (to me, anyways). He helped me get my feet off the ground with Peach with a critique that he really didn't have to do, which I'm grateful for.

But yeah, what I meant is just that I often don't see the point of posting in a place about how you dislike the place (perhaps that's just me), without aiming to be constructive with it. Yeah, the community is in a state right now that I kind of see (if you could explain more of what your gripe with it is specifically, I would be able to see it better), but I don't think it helps to just be bitter about it (which is what I see from some of your posts, and it might not be the most accurate feel, since I don't see you post that often).

to answer you questions about the other post

i feel like this place is just dumb now, but i can't just stop checking because i still feel some attachment and i still hope good things will happen. or someone asks a good question/discusses something interesting that i might want to comment on

it ends up though, being simple things i don't need to answer, the same stupid discussion over again, or just people being dumb and i don't wanna go around saying that cause apparently people get butt hurt.

idk, i just get really attached to things and just can't not keep checking/posting/whatever when it comes to the main peach threads

 

[Strong Badam]

we'll miss you mccain! do what you have to do and be happy man

 

[Wake]

Yeah of course. Do what you feel is making you happy and all that stuff.

It's fun when MacD posts on stuff so I hope you'll keep posting, but it is what it is.

Also, that up-b by Armada may have just been a complete accident/mistake

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Its a shame losing such a top lvl peach main, but i understand how u feel. I had lost my drive for this game and didn't play for like 1.5 years or 2 years at one point. but then some friends got back into melee and it brought me back into again. who knows maybe in the future u will feel like playing again or maybe not, i just find it hard to stay away for to long.

Also wow Macd its kinda funny reading your post b/c the whole wanting to throw your controller and later forgetting your controller and just getting mad as hell and not wanting to play is almost word for word what happened to me at my last tourney. but I still have a drive to get better and a computer which is to old to pay league of legends. I think u should do what makes u happy but it would be cool if u still hung around the community a bit especially since u do still seem to like the community. Anyway gl on whatever u r doing man

 

[ShroudedOne]

I see. Thanks for taking the time to answer, and I can understand that. The reason we all started with this game was because it was fun, and there is no point in playing it if it isn't fun. And if you find something else that you enjoy more, then by all means, you should go for it. It just happens to not be smash. And I can understand the attachment to here as well. This is still kind of a nice place, and people can change.

I know that I'm going to miss the information you have MacD, but you gotta do what's right for you. Who knows, you might suddenly get the drive to main Link for some reason, and fall in love with the game all over again. Hopefully, you might see the need to post in here a little bit (for a while, anyways).

Good luck on whatever you intend to do now, and I hope it works out. =)

 

[Anand]

Wait, what advantage was gained from facing offstage? He could have just immediately turned around with a dash and done the exact same thing if he'd done it while facing center-stage.

I thought Sinji meant because the reverse up-B made him move away from the stage a little instead of towards it, to help avoid being edgeguarded. I have no idea whether it's useful though (maybe only as a mixup).

 

[MacD]

I know that I'm going to miss the information you have MacD, but you gotta do what's right for you. Who knows, you might suddenly get the drive to main Link for some reason, and fall in love with the game all over again. Hopefully, you might see the need to post in here a little bit (for a while, anyways).

i guarantee you that will never happen

you can ask like most of so cal and probably alan

link is just one of those characters that makes no sense to me and is stupid and i'm really really really bad with

 

[crismas]

McCain you're awesome I just wanted to say that. I really had fun hanging out with you. You should just enjoy yourself and not have to feel like you're stuck with smash if you don't want to be/not having fun. The whole part of playing this game competitively is to have a drive and still have fun while doing it, it's not a job.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

macd I went thru the same thing, but with sc2 instead of Lol. Just do what you gotta do, play what is fun for you. You got a lot of friends here, so dont be a stranger!

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm sad to see you go but if I come to SoCal we're still gonna chill, right? Right?!

D:

Also I still want to talk to you on AIM randomly about life. Don't you disappear on me!

 

[MacD]

McCain you're awesome I just wanted to say that. I really had fun hanging out with you. You should just enjoy yourself and not have to feel like you're stuck with smash if you don't want to be/not having fun. The whole part of playing this game competitively is to have a drive and still have fun while doing it, it's not a job.

i think that was the other problem, my thoughts were "i'm going to the EC to hang out first, then sure i'll go to smash tournies"

but trust me, i had a lot of fun and the hanging out was super fun and i still love the community, but yea, just bleh on the smash aspect

I'm sad to see you go but if I come to SoCal we're still gonna chill, right? Right?!

D:

Also I still want to talk to you on AIM randomly about life. Don't you disappear on me!

basically same as above. you know i love you kk if you ever came to so cal i would house you in a heartbeat and drive you around and we'd totally hang forever

i still love the community, and in a perfect world for macd, i would take like 10+ people from every area and have them move within like 3-4 hours of me. that way i could see everyone more often, but still have it be like a special thing (obviously though, some of my closer besties i'd want super close)

ergo why i'm going to apex, gotta see everyone. i think i'm turning into milktea haha. and i wanna go out a few days early maybe to hang. it just never seems to work out for me when i want to go out early

 

[Degree]

i feel like this place is just dumb now

Well what do you define as "dumb"? A lot of the random in-jokes between you guys might look "dumb" to anyone outside them, and also dumb doesn't necessarily have a negative connotation. In a game so old there is going to eventually be a limit where almost nothing you see is new if you've been around a long time. If you've been here that long, you're gonna get deja vu a lot.

But when a new person asks a question, they don't care that it might have been asked a hundred times before. Especially if they've posted a video of them playing, advice given to people before may not necessarily apply to them. (Sure there are many questions that are answers by "read the first post" but not all) You might think they should be able to work it out on their own, but obviously they can't which is why they've come to the boards for help. Everyone starts out new at some point, and who knows how good they may turn out? (Then you can annoy them forever by holding the fact you helped them get going over their head :D)

Your matches/information/commentary have been amazing though, especially the commentaries you've given on Armada matches. We can all watch them ourselves, that's no problem. But having another expert giving a runthrough as the match happens is awesome. I remember very clearly from Pound V where you commentated on Armada v S2J on Dreamland. They were on the left side of the stage when S2j was on his last stock and Armada runs off the platform and naired and you said "oh I'd have downsmashed there because I'm a noob". Obviously you're not a noob, but that comment alone made me really think about positioning and why Armada didn't Dsmash, I wouldn't have thought about it at all if you hadn't made that comment.

 

[MacD]

when new people came, i did answer questions for a while. but obviously that's gonna happen, don't mind that

it's partly that i've stopped caring, but also just the discussions i feel are people like trying to hard to find new things. it's cool you guys are doing that but you don't need me to say something is dumb or not

 

[choknater]

i think peach's dsmash is dumb

 

[King5280]

i think peach's dsmash is dumb[/QUOTE

not as dumb as ic's and their wack *** chain grabs and wobbling

 

[choknater]

you're in the peach thread man, that matchup is heavily in _ favor

 

[ShroudedOne]

I think that Peach's down smash is a very, very good move. But at the same time, that it is really overrated.

 

[choknater]

in what sense is it overrated?

i'm pretty sure everyone acknowledges that it is good for what it is

 

[EPsilon933]

It's good against characters that stick to the ground (Marth, Sheik) but not so good against characters that rely on their air games (Jigglypuff)

 

[choknater]

yeah pretty accurate description right there

it's bad against kirby too

and metaknight as well

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

peach's d-smash is good. but if i think i understand what shrouded means by overrated. like some of my friends complain about the d-smash and it being to good, but in truth the thing thats so good about peach is her fc. like some people think d-smash is her best thing but in truth its her fc.

Also its my bday and i am on smashboards, kinda sad about that. (but i am going out later )

 

[ShroudedOne]

Well happy birthday, N.A.G.A.C.E. And yeah, that's more or less what I mean. It's quite good, but if you just stay mildly aware of the move, it's easily punished. People also seem to be bad about jumping into platforms, and DI'ing the down smash properly, which gets them *****. Spacies are the only characters that truly get bodied by that move, and even they can DI up and mash jump, to avoid getting hit more than once. But people don't often do so.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yeah dsmash is really an overrated move. I played with a guy who is average but like a year or two behind the metagame. I played peach vs his fox and he wouldn't stop johning about the dsmash... "All you have to do is hit me with that and my stock is over" "all you have to do to win is dsmash". But dsmash really isn't as good as that. Sure you can't just mindlessly hold down against peach, if you do and I dsmash thats called a punish. Mostly all Dsmash does is send you behind peach and deal 10-20%. The range isn't that good and its pretty laggy.


My friend ryan was really good at peach and gave me almost all of my peach experience, but he doesn't play anymore. The day I had the hardest time with his peach was the day he didn't dsmash. Its actually really really hard to find free lag to punish peach for if she doesn't dsmash. Dash attack i suppose is one, but usually thats a move peach tries to trade with anyways so thats not too important. Otherwise, her aerials, dtilt and jab are quite difficult to react to and punish.

 

[Quaz]

Sorry that all of us Midwest peaches are stubborn MacD =(

 

[john!]

does ryan = money? or someone else?

i need to play your peach joe!

and yes quaz, we are very stubborn. all 4 of us

edit: dsmash is a good move and always will be. people have learned to counter it, and you can't spam cc dsmash against any competent players, but it still does its job extremely well if you know when to use it.

 

[Wake]

We got it Quaz. MW Peaches!

(oh and John too )

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yeah ryan = money