Upstate New York Tournament Thread

[Gaia_x]

Okay this is the problem i had with this tournament. THE VENUE FEE: a 10$ venue is stupid for use of only maybe 15% of the venue. I paid the same at VC, which had a way bigger turn out - and i was able to use the whole venue.

Then you took a house cut, which is fine. But i think 10% of each pot is way too much. THEN i finally just now hear that it was only taken out of brawl? That's STUPID, seeing as though some of us play only brawl and some of us play only melee. If you were gonna do that, you should have taken 5% out of brawl and then 5% out of melee. However, i cant be to upset with this either cause i think the flat tire was more karma based for taking money out of pots. ( i think i told people this ). I felt this could have been handled better - a 2-4 % house cut from each pot is understandable cause i feel you should gain some money for your efforts, but i feel 10% from each pot was way too much.

I'm not disappointed with this tournament cause eevee and i had way too much fun. Though I probably spent the most out of everyone (since i covered myself and eevee's expenses), but i felt things could have been different.

I spent 107
20$- venue
20$- Melee and Brawl doubles
15$- Melee and Brawl Singles
32$- Gas and Tolls
20$- Food

I Made -102
5$- MM$
25$- Brawl Doubles (Frank owed me)
52.50$- Brawl Singles
19.5 - Gas (bry sharky beta)

so i lost about 5$ which isnt bad seeing how i covered frannie. However, If venue was 5$ like last time (seeing how we pretty much used less space than before i think) i could have saved 10$. I spent the same amount for venue at ss1 and we had a huge *** venue that we could use all of the space not limited. And if goggles house cut was like 5% or so i could have made a few more extra bucks.

Summary of major tournament problems

-Venue fee
-10% House cut
-Not being able to use full venue
-House cut was only taken from brawl? wtf?! This is stupid!
-No reduced venue for setups.
-Some ******** stages
-Not really calling out matches/enforcing brax that much.

Overall, I would not come to another unless the venue is reduced if that impossible i suggest looking into another venue that way if we do have to pay 10$ we should get all the space. and do something more reasonable about the house cut. If you must take money from the pot than do it from both. Don't jew out players like hulk and San who only play/place in brawl Hulk won doubles and place 4th in singles both money paying events and he only left with 7$ +

On the note of PR, I don't fully run the PR - i place my input on what i feel it should be. If more people are interested in being on the panel for brawl Id be more then happy to consider it. I think both sharky and alt would make good
panelist if they are interested.

Edit: Regardless the problems this tournament was the most fun I've had in Rochester while in tournament and even more fun at the after party are Jesse's. And the Wegman's parade. Good times everyone!

Sincerely yours with love,

Cura and Eevee :]

 

[Foy]

=[ You never invite me to any cool aim parties.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i will be the first to admit that the pot cut not being taken out of melee was fully and 100% due to my own personal incompetance. i just flat out forgot to set that money aside when i was calculating payouts for melee.

I am confused as to what you mean with the 15% of the venue, thing. I have to disagree and say that the majority of the venue was taken up by us. And i dont know where VC was, but this was a lan center that couldnt just shut down for us, they had to let the people that came to use the computers use the computers. and i dont know what wrong with that. In addition I was saddened to be notified that because of our loudness and rowdyness, it actually discouraged some rob's frequent regular customers not to stay and play there that day due to our ruckus. Even still I dont remember anybody being told where they could and could not go, except for maybe the VIP room. so I dont see how you feel you were "limited" in space.

also hulk got 7 dollars for singles, and when he told me that san hadnt given him his half of the doubles money (due to me not explicitly telling san that it the money I gave him was for the full team and not just him) I corrected it.

and as for the PR, I feel that the 2 people on each panel have an equal bearing on how it comes out, so its not fair to me that Im being accused of being tyrannical or whatever.

 

[altairian]

This is a bold faced lie, because multiple people complained to me about that arrangement, and they wouldnt have known about it, had I not put it up in the OP of the tourney thread.

Its my personal opinion that EVERY TO should be compensated when they run a tourney. You may disagree with me, but that doesnt give you the right to question my character.

Ok just went back and looked at your tourney post. It was listed in with the payouts not with the venue fees. here's what you said: "In addition to the venue fee, Cyberstorm will be receiving a 10% cut of the entrance fees." Your name is cyberstorm now?

If you're up front about ****, people won't question it later. You weren't up front about it at all. I didn't know you were getting any money till cura or neil said something about it, and I bet most people who attended the tourney didn't know at all.

PS it takes about 3 seconds to save brackets to a flash drive or email them to yourself or whatever. And you could have saved everything but melee singles before the event even ended and you had to do cleanup work. There's priorities and then there's neglecting your players...

 

[Gaia_x]

There's not much you can do about it now for the house cut only being taken out of Brawl. I just feel that it's unfair. VC was also a LAN center and shut down just for the tournament - what I mean by 15% is that even though we could go where ever we wanted to, TVs were only placed on like one side of the venue which means we didn't have the entire space. It's not about where we could and couldn't go, it's about where we set up and played.

As for San and Hulk, Hulk probably still only made 7$, since he had to cover venue, food, gas, etc. If the pot wasn't strictly from Brawl or if there wasn't a pot cut, he probably could've made more.

Probably the only reason why people are accusing you is 'cause of what I've been reading in recent posts, you don't seem to be open to new ideas or other peoples' input.

 

[ViciousEnd]

To be brutally honest, we could get rid of all this PR drama if people would just shut the hell up and trust me.

One persons judgement is ALWAYS biased. It's when you average out multiple judgement do you get anywhere accurate. And who is to say you are even the most knowledgeable about the actual skill levels of the various players in BOTH games to make a fair and accurate PR? It's seems like you're the only one who believe you alone is capable of such a feat.

1. Run a tourney yourself, and then tell me you shouldnt be compensated. That mess is hard work.

2. I actually didnt take any money out of melee.

3. Why do you think im not doing it anymore?

4. I came out of that tourney -10 dollars since I caught a flat tire, and had to buy a new one the day after the tourney.

So much bull**** in here.

1. No, you should not ever be compensated. I am serious. Running a tournament is an act for the community, never for yourself. You should make money based on your tournament performance, that's how it was done at the Pound series. Plank had to place to make any money at all. It's far more respectable this way. Being a TO is a selfless act.

2. Other than venue fee, neither you nor cyber storm should have removed any additional money.

3. ??

4. It was already mentioned it, but personal issues on the day of a tournament really have nothing to do with the tournament.

 

[da K.I.D.]

@ alt. I didnt know that he was giving me that cut until afterI make that post.

@cura, its very unfair, and I apologise, I didnt recognise the mistake until yesterday.
also, if we could get 120 people into the place im almost positive Rob would have absolutely no problem closing down the entire place for us, but we only had about a 3rd of that its not feasible to shut his establishment down to his paying customers for people that feel that they shouldnt be paying what is normally considered HIGHLY competitive prices

hulk didnt pay gas, nobody from RIT did to my knowledge, due to the place being about 5 min from campus. I didnt see him with food either but im not going to make a statement on that.

Im trying to be as open as possible but essentially, all the other possible factors for things for the tournament and PR were gone over by me already, and people are making suggestions for things, that ive gone over in my head 15 times and have determined to be sub-optimal. And with altairian over here attacking my integrity and talking about how im supposedly such a dishonest and crook like person, I hope you can see why I am a bit flustered here.

@ stefon.

i never said I alone could make an unbiased PR. I just asked people to trust that my decision making is correct and that Im doing everything I can to make our PR as unbiased and accurate as possible, obviously im soliciting the help of other players, but ive gone through every possible option and the way we currently have it is the best way to do it. sure we coudl use more panelists, but until yesterday, nobody has stepped up.

 

[eeveee]

I'm in love with the smash community because it doesn't typically house drama.

However, due to the current set of events, I feel that I'm currently watching a coronation of CNY's queens.

Edit: Goggles, I believe your integrity is being questioned because
1) while we all enjoy the engagement in trash talk, yours has a tendency to persist at instances that are unnecessary, which already leads people to dislike you in the first place
2) taking a house cut, unless strictly enforced by the venue, is never pleasing in the eyes of a smasher, especially when it's you, whose demeanor is often a vexation to the community. Alternative venues, in the context of the past tournament, would include Jesse's place, if he let be. In such instances, I believe smashers, unless claustrophobic or otherwise concerned, and assuming a sickly jerk doesn't attend, much prefer being cramped over being charged such an amount
3) pecuniary compensation in the aforementioned form is vile. As for the previous tournament, the damage has been done but the ranting is still alive and well. While I didn't place in money, I do not enjoy having to pay the venue and suffer a house cut simultaneously
4) To my knowledge and own enjoyment, it should never ever cost me more to simply occupy a venue than ENTER any of the respective events

Please excuse me if I am misinformed and making assumptions.

 

[dudutsai]

Whether or not people like Goggles as a person shouldn't have anything to do with the feedback he's getting for this tournament.

I thought Cura's post was really good because it detailed the complaints one at a time, and said what would have to be changed for him to drive over again, which is all this should be about.

If people have complaints, please try to make it constructive, because I can tell Goggles is trying to make everyone happy. Some of the things I've read have just been mean.... if you want to make things better at least try to make the insulting comments outweighed by the helpful suggestions.

 

[Sheth]

Eeveee, bulleting it out nicely.

I think it's fair to say that there's a lot of dislike for cyberstorm being sort of pricey for a somewhat minimalist setup. That's cool. I admit it seems a little harsh to me, but I put up mostly because I'm not 100% squeezed for cash. (But it is enough that I don't MM, as you may have noticed.) So, I think we'll see how Pyro's thing goes in April, and see if there's a way we can get things moving cheaply somewhere else, especially on campus, if at all possible.

As for house cut; okay, you can be leaning either way about it, I guess, depending just on taste. I'm not particularly for or against it if it's not a large sum, but, I guess 10% can be pretty disagreeable. While I'm not a person who places in the money, the costs to me should be more about feasibility than what pays out where. I don't want to feel like it's all about the money, because I definitely don't feel that's what the tourney atmosphere should smell like. Of course, this is my bias as someone who doesn't place in the money, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, kay? The tournaments aren't going to be in the same form at the same place with goggles as TO going on and on into the future, as he's said, so even if you want to give him feedback, keep it chill, since there's nothing more to do than maybe settle things out, make up, apologize, and move on.

 

[TheManaLord]

1. no compensation

2. there should be no money taken out of the pots. the only problem there was was a clerical error and goggles should be forgiven for a MISTAKE that won't happen again in the future.

3. goggles is going to keep hosting tournaments because nobody else in rochester can

4. that sucks but hey thats a life problem you wouldve gotten the flat tire no matter where you were

 

[da K.I.D.]

I'm in love with the smash community because it doesn't typically house drama.

However, due to the current set of events, I feel that I'm currently watching a coronation of CNY's queens.

Edit: Goggles, I believe your integrity is being questioned because
1) while we all enjoy the engagement in trash talk, yours has a tendency to persist at instances that are unnecessary, which already leads people to dislike you in the first place

This is why i always encourage people to air out their concerns with me when they happen (like I did with you at SS2), it alleviates the problem of talking behind peoples back, and it gets the problem solved in a timely manner. If I dont know what Im doing wrong, i cant fix it.

2) taking a house cut, unless strictly enforced by the venue, is never pleasing in the eyes of a smasher, especially when it's you, whose demeanor is often a vexation to the community. Alternative venues, in the context of the past tournament, would include Jesse's place, if he let be. In such instances, I believe smashers, unless claustrophobic or otherwise concerned, and assuming a sickly jerk doesn't attend, much prefer being cramped over being charged such an amount

I understand this, and i understand that its not prefered, and when I only looked at it from a players standpoint, I felt the same way. and even before I was running tourneys, when I talked to Rob and Kelvin about things like this, and they explained all of the factors that go into a production like this, I looked at it from a different perspective. and now my opinion is a bit different.

Also, I love Jesse and hes a great person for opening his apartment to us so often, but I would rather not have a tourney there.

3) pecuniary compensation in the aforementioned form is vile. As for the previous tournament, the damage has been done but the ranting is still alive and well. While I didn't place in money, I do not enjoy having to pay the venue and suffer a house cut simultaneously

Im sorry, Im usually good with vocabulary, but what does pecuniary mean?

4) To my knowledge and own enjoyment, it should never ever cost me more to simply occupy a venue than ENTER any of the respective events

I can see where you are coming from but personally, my opinion is the complete opposite. I was actually quite miffed when we went to SS1 and paid 5$ for venue and 10 for each event, that was a lot of money for me. especially for a tourney that doesnt have very many entrants. so even placing in the money isnt worth much... I would rather pay (lets just use my personal record for these tourneys for the sake of the example) 10 dollars for what equates to a full day pass at the LAN center and unlimited friendlies, and 5 dollars for 4-6 sets in the chances of making some cash back, than to pay 5 for the friendlies and 10 for those 4-6 sets. Since I feel that the entire days worth of friendlies is worth more money than the tournament.

But that may just be me.

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. no compensation

Once again, I disagree. but its seems im alone in that sentiment.

2. there should be no money taken out of the pots. the only problem there was was a clerical error and goggles should be forgiven for a MISTAKE that won't happen again in the future.

truth.

3. goggles is going to keep hosting tournaments because nobody else in rochester can

False, Goggles is NOT going to continue hosting tournaments, because apparently, nobody likes him, and people dont want him around anyway. (Courtesy of Eevee) Hes a crook. hes under handed. (Courtesy of Altairian) Nobody appreciates his hard work. Nobody respects him (Except Tsai) and Nobody listens to him during tournaments. And hes "The worst TO ever" for turning a TV off and making people register for their events. (Courtesy of Jesiah)

4. that sucks but hey thats a life problem you wouldve gotten the flat tire no matter where you were

agreed.

 

[TheManaLord]

i can agree with your disagreement on the issue of compensation. what i'm saying is there should be no monetary compensation. but the pride you earn from hosting a successful tournament, the merit created for helping the community, and the time and effort used for a good purpose should be enough in terms of compensatory measures.

people not respecting you or giving you credit frankly just don't understand the hard work and effort you've put in. a lot of TO's don't get the praise they deserve

and i can tell you goggles without you our state wouldn't be where it is today, it'd be so much worse. thanks a lot and even if people don't want to admit it they certainly appreciate you

thanks goggles! don't stop hosting tournaments

 

[altairian]

Goggles, this is what happens when people put themselves up on pedestals. I appreciate the work you've done for the community and our region, don't get me wrong on this, but the attitude that you've taken while doing so is what's caused people to become so critical.

 

[Dr. Grandpa]

so no more tournaments in rochester (real tournament;x) Lame!

 

[da K.I.D.]

Id like to know why you thiink that.

the only time I put myself on a pedestal to the best of my knowledge, was when I actually was on a pedestal, aka the PR. But now that Im not actually better at the game then people, I dont act like Im better at the game than people.

And just in case I just thought of what you might be refering to. I would like to publicly apologise to Sharky, Leet-0, Acton and Alt, when I was talking to people about the money matches we had, I not trying to intentionally make you feel bad about losing. and im not making fun of you either. i just like to make fun of the people that seem to think certain matchups in brawl are "impossible" so when I play them and win, its not a slight to you because those matchups arent as easy as they are made out to be.

also, sometimes it may be hard to tell but sometimes I just get really giddy/excited/happy when I win, simply because I dont expect to. Like when I played act, I really didnt expect to win, but I was talking madd junk and put myself out there so I had to put up or shut up. so i wasnt trying to make him feel bad, I was just amazed that I won. because It was really hard. and in my match with leet, I feel like I choose a really bad CP because he was had a defense up like a freaking fortress and since I happened to be up in % the only way i could win was by timing him out and praying he didnt notice, because I just couldnt hit him.

I apologise if I make you feel insecure or inadaquate, its not my aim.

Other then that, i attempt to be as approachable as possible, and I tell people to question everything. its just that from time to time I just wish people would trust my decision making skills.

EDIT
Random unrelated note.
One of my most fun matches the whole weekend.
My ganon vs curas falcon.
3$MM next time we meet.
shiz was bananas. lol

 

[Kantō]

SS1 had a 10 dollar venue and entry fee.

 

[TheManaLord]

i can host a tournament in oswego sometime. it's close from both syracuse and rochetser and relatively equidistant (rochester should take route 104 and syracuse should get on 481) literally just take those two roads literally the only roads you need to be on and it takes you straight to oswego

really easy travel, there are tons of bars, two good head shops, lots of food places, and lots of parties for sure

i'll try to contact the gaming club or look for a venue fee.

i just need to know that people are willing to travel, because if i lose a lot of money from securing venue i'll never be able to travel again basically. i live in on a minute to minute financial situation and i really cant afford to front money for ****. so i'll look into it if people are willing to commit to come. it's really a short and straightforward drive for both cities

 

[TheManaLord]

SS1 had a 10 dollar venue and entry fee.

and a fawful turnout, it's simply too expensive for a lot of ppl =(


p.s. 4500th post ^^^

 

[da K.I.D.]

Really?

My bad, I dont how I got that wrong... huh...

 

[Kantō]

yea but that was my first tourney lol.

i think venue and entry should always be the same. unless venue is cheaper. the other way around is ********. also i had paid for that venue in advance and didnt have to make money for anyone so i didnt know what to expect my first tourney. but if it wasnt for that tourney there wouldnt be **** in CNY and yall know it!

 

[TheManaLord]

definitly

$5 venue fee
and $10 entry is legit

 

[Kantō]

next tourney we have to do brawl +

 

[Dr. Grandpa]

im not inteerested in that hack game at all

 

[eeveee]

@dudtsai: I don't like integrating spheres - whether or not someone has a problem with goggles shouldn't incline them to dislike him as a TO. But that doesn't mean that said event doesn't occur. I am not attacking goggles personally, I'm offering a set of perspectives.

@ goggles: I agree. I don't have a problem with you as I once had, because we've already been over this. I'm not sure if everyone is aware of your preference to voice their concerns with you.

In resect to the venue, I feel that if you're going to pay $10, it better be a lovely venue and the following events are the same price. Likewise, if you pay $5, you should pay $5 for the other events. The fees match the atmosphere. Get a nice spacious place where smashers are free to roam and have access to a clean bathroom (yes, this means a LOT to me), yeah I'll dish out some more money. If it's an average place (such as SS2, where Cura had to act as my door for the bathroom) then sure I'll pay the $5. Of course, this is not a blanket rule. By explicating your perspective, you've somewhat justified your venue fee.

To me, tournament organizing is kind like volunteering - it's a community based thing. The compensation is the feeling that you took part in such a thing.

Mana has a valid point. At least when you volunteer, people send out thank you emails and crap. I didn't give you squat. Except my pasta. :x and it wasn't even that good. Thanks to all he awesome TOs, including yourself, for bringing our community together.

I would also like to illustrate that my points were simply why I believe people are questioning your integrity. I'm basing these statements off what I catch floating in conversation amidst the scene. I can no way prove that they are accurate. I personally don't have a problem with goggles. As he has stressed, if you have an issue with his smack talk, address it to him. He'll tune it accordingly - as he did with me, and i'm ****ing sensitive.

p.s. Pecuniary = deailing with finances, money, etc <3

 

[Foy]

Yo if i end up getting a place up in rochester ill start looking for venues to host tournaments.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Yo people tourney @ my place.

Bring your entry fee, your love for the game and maybe a setup, that's all I need to run a bomb tourney.

 

[san.]

I've looked into hosting tourneys at Cornell, and it didn't look that appealing to me. Tourneys were held at Cornell before, but it was dumb and there were no cash prizes, but items. It may be different if I could talk the smash club here in helping me do something in the far future.

@Kanto

Low tier tourney =) (or midtiers to include PT lol)

 

[Kantō]

wait PT is mid teir now?

 

[san.]

Yo people tourney @ my place.

Bring your entry fee, your love for the game and maybe a setup, that's all I need to run a bomb tourney.

I'll be there.

Btw, is there going to be a smashfest at your place this saturday or saturday after? I'm going to be in town all week and that'd be great if possible.


@Kanto

.. Yup, but if you TO you can do w/e you want lol.

 

[PieDisliker]

...That's some commotion right there. Best I stay out of this one, especially since I wasn't even at the tourney.

All this commotion makes me wanna host a tourney in Utica, but I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too young and should be able to actually attend tournies first beofre I even think of such a thought. Still, it'd be a nice thought to have for years ahead.

 

[dudutsai]

Integrating spheres sucks! I don't even remember how anymore lol

 

[Sharky]

lol sai yeah I remember hating doing that stuff XD

Goggles, I believe I made a clear separation between my one complaint on the fee and my overall appreciation of the rest of your efforts in my first post in this thread, I had no other problems, personally.

As far as working with cyberstorm goes, did you ask them what they might charge as a single flat fee? I see absolutely no reason for a place to charge $350+ like they did, the SS1 venue charged just over 200

 

[PikaPika!]

The VIP room is something like 120-150 for the entire day during the weekends, no where near big enough tho.

 

[hubble]

I love how smash drama stays on the boards.

By the way, I enjoy everyones company and I hope you all feel loved around us.

 

[altairian]

Id like to know why you thiink that.

the only time I put myself on a pedestal to the best of my knowledge, was when I actually was on a pedestal, aka the PR. But now that Im not actually better at the game then people, I dont act like Im better at the game than people.

And just in case I just thought of what you might be refering to. I would like to publicly apologise to Sharky, Leet-0, Acton and Alt, when I was talking to people about the money matches we had, I not trying to intentionally make you feel bad about losing. and im not making fun of you either. i just like to make fun of the people that seem to think certain matchups in brawl are "impossible" so when I play them and win, its not a slight to you because those matchups arent as easy as they are made out to be.

also, sometimes it may be hard to tell but sometimes I just get really giddy/excited/happy when I win, simply because I dont expect to. Like when I played act, I really didnt expect to win, but I was talking madd junk and put myself out there so I had to put up or shut up. so i wasnt trying to make him feel bad, I was just amazed that I won. because It was really hard. and in my match with leet, I feel like I choose a really bad CP because he was had a defense up like a freaking fortress and since I happened to be up in % the only way i could win was by timing him out and praying he didnt notice, because I just couldnt hit him.

I apologise if I make you feel insecure or inadaquate, its not my aim.

Other then that, i attempt to be as approachable as possible, and I tell people to question everything. its just that from time to time I just wish people would trust my decision making skills.

I think that because you hype up yourself and everything you do like crazy

I expect a lot from TO's because whenever I take up a organization/leadership type position I hold myself to a very high standard and I expect others in those roles to do the same. People wonder why I still sell fish for 10 bucks an hour and ****ty hours, it's because my boss is amazing at her job and I can't work for someone that I'm better than them at their job. I try to avoid public criticism of people because I realize my own standards can be somewhat excessive, but I've always gotten the impression from you that you want to be the best at what you do, but I've always found myself disappointed with brackets, venue issues, and pretty much all the stuff cura posted at your tourneys.

I dunno about what the other guys felt, but I got pretty mad when you posted something about beating me with fox. I told you after the game that was the first time I had even played a fox, and I've posted a couple times about how frustrated I was after getting knocked out of the tourney. I wasn't playing my best, and I figured you would've noticed that after I dropped 2 cg's on your fox and then went from like 100% lead on your wolf in the first stock to losing the game pretty badly. I really didn't see a need to talk about that game like it was anything other than a crappy pika losing to a good player, regardless of matchup.

I'd also like to point out that I didn't question anything until you got in my face about "your process" because I suggested that updating the PR this frequently might be excessive/a bit unfair. Maybe the wording of my first post was a bit crappy, I only meant to say that more data to work with gives you more to go on to make the decisions on PR changes, cause one tourney and a smashfest or two really isn't much, in my opinion.

Anyways, Mana hit me up on aim if you're serious about running something in oswego and want a co-TO/possible financial backer

 

[NightroGlycerine]

Yo if i end up getting a place up in rochester ill start looking for venues to host tournaments.

That would be sickkk

Yo people tourney @ my place.

Bring your entry fee, your love for the game and maybe a setup, that's all I need to run a bomb tourney.

I don't know how tournies at your place work. I'll assume this one is already over >.<

Let me know next time you have one? PM me/facebook/w.e

 

[da K.I.D.]

so me and pyro talked to EGS last night. with t he time frame that we were giving, we had to choose between playing singles and doubles in a single elimination format for both games, or only doing singles for both games in a double elimination format.

We decided the best option would be to do singles only so that we could run a proper double elimination bracket.

 

[NightroGlycerine]

so me and pyro talked to EGS last night. with t he time frame that we were giving, we had to choose between playing singles and doubles in a single elimination format for both games, or only doing singles for both games in a double elimination format.

We decided the best option would be to do singles only so that we could run a proper double elimination bracket.

For Melee or Brawl?